No Controversy at all on Ertz' TD Reception

[Flugel]

Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II?  Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.

The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall.  They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner).   While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II?  Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.

The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall.  They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner).   While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.

CC was off his game yesterday. That was clearly a WR turned into a runner with an intentional dive and it was a TD as soon as the football touched the GL in the air. Did not matter what happened after that.

NE got away with a lot of shoves to the chest while the ball was in the air but BEFORE it arrived, most of the time without looking back as required so you could at least argue they were going for the ball. And most of those occurred in the endzone.

[LogicIsForSquares]

19 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

CC was off his game yesterday. That was clearly a WR turned into a runner with an intentional dive and it was a TD as soon as the football touched the GL in the air. Did not matter what happened after that.

NE got away with a lot of shoves to the chest while the ball was in the air but BEFORE it arrived, most of the time without looking back as required so you could at least argue they were going for the ball. And most of those occurred in the endzone.

I watched the game with my dad and the New Jersey family. They were going insane over the non-calls on the Pats. Guys not looking back to ID the ball and grabbing arms. But it is all forgotten now. They were going insane last night. I was happy to see them win one. 

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II?  Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.

The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall.  They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner).   While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.

 

 

Collinsworth was definitely reaching with some of those takes last night. If Ertz's touchdown was not a touchdown then what in the fu-ck is a TD  to Collinsworth?

[calfoxwc]

I started muting collinsworth after a while, as soon as he started talking. Late in a game, the patriots get upset when they

DON'T get a perfect call at the right time. Gronk pushes off when it's important - no call. At least he played it straight for a good while.

   The second half, they started oline holding, no calls - and that gave brady more time. Then Gronk - who surely will embark on an acting career in Hollywood - the db grabs the top of his jersey, and he twists around like he's being turned by a 500 lb yeti, and sure enough, he gets the call. The eagles are THAT talented though - it was great to see them win.

   I do feel bad, though. I made a bet with a best friend's daughter in grad school - we've made these little bets because she adores Tom Brady and is, therefore, a huge Patriots fan. She needs the money for grad school, and I won. We made a bet twice as big as we have before. I'll still make her pay me though. LOL

[LionOfBuddha]

The Ertz TD seemed obvious that it was a catch.

The other one, (caught by the UDFA Rookie RB) I’m surprised they didn’t overturn it

All that being said, I hope Tony Romo gets to do the Super Bowl next year

[Flugel]

22 minutes ago, LionOfBuddha said:

The Ertz TD seemed obvious that it was a catch.

The other one, (caught by the UDFA Rookie RB) I’m surprised they didn’t overturn it

All that being said, I hope Tony Romo gets to do the Super Bowl next year

Agreed - although I prolly finding myself enjoying Troy Aikman's commentary best since he was fortunate enough to experience the Superbowl as a QB 3 times.  Romo did a nice job his first year though.

[Gunz41]

Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call

Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call

3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.

Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT

[nickers]

7 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Agreed - although I prolly finding myself enjoying Troy Aikman's commentary best since he was fortunate enough to experience the Superbowl as a QB 3 times.  Romo did a nice job his first year though.

I like Romo a lot..., His analysis is more like an easy conversation at the Bar... Kind of  Bernie like in some of his summations...

 

EDIT: I just wish someone would fire Jim Nantz already.. He blows...

[jrb12711]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II?  Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.

The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall.  They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner).   While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.

 

 

Before you go crazy on me, I 100% agree that it was a TD catch. No argument there.

But I definitely disagree that there wasn't controversy. The thing is though, the "controversy" is that the NFL has had YEARS (since the megatron catch) to get this right and they haven't. There's a reason that catch took 10 years to review and I told everyone at the party don't be surprised if it gets overturned. I'm hopeful this is the icing on the cake to make it easier. If you catch the damn ball before the endzone and cross the plane it's a TD. It's not hard.

[mjp28]

Ertz good! But still get rid of the control thing hitting the ground IF you've already crossed the magical plane of the goal line.

.......but PIT might have moved on? Uhhhhhh.

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Before you go crazy on me, I 100% agree that it was a TD catch. No argument there.

But I definitely disagree that there wasn't controversy. The thing is though, the "controversy" is that the NFL has had YEARS (since the megatron catch) to get this right and they haven't. There's a reason that catch took 10 years to review and I told everyone at the party don't be surprised if it gets overturned. I'm hopeful this is the icing on the cake to make it easier. If you catch the damn ball before the endzone and cross the plane it's a TD. It's not hard.

We're not that far apart here especially if we stay in tact with the title of this thread.  You said you agreed 100% it was a catch because you clearly watched the replay and counted steps once possession was established.  We both trusted our eyes in a world where a picture is worth a 1000 words (unless they're Collinsworth's). The original intention of replay is to get calls like this right even though that doesn't always happen. In this case it did. For example, what did the referee explain when the call on the field was correct?  He explained what you and I saw and described Ertz as a runner (meaning possession established with steps that followed).   Even though I agree with you that the rules of a catch can be controversial - nothing about Ertz' catch was controversial once the replay aired. 

Now, the other TD reception by Philly where possession and getting both feet in after it can be debated. I can see some controversy; but who gets more favoritism by the officials than NE when it comes to penalties called and overlooked?  Hard to feel sorry for them when they only had a volume of 3 penalties against them in the AFC Championship and SB combined.   Watch how how they get away with grabbing and pinning 1 arm of a WR that their opponent gets flagged for.

I'm with you that I'd like them to straighten out the rules of a catch.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, LionOfBuddha said:

The Ertz TD seemed obvious that it was a catch.

The other one, (caught by the UDFA Rookie RB) I’m surprised they didn’t overturn it

All that being said, I hope Tony Romo gets to do the Super Bowl next year

I am not a big fan of Romo doing games. 

[mjp28]

Yes many better choices out there.

Super Bowl 53 will take place in Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, giving the Falcons a chance to earn home-field advantage in the biggest game of the year.

That game takes place on Feb. 3, 2019. CBS holds the broadcasting rights, which means next year’s NFL championship could be Tony Romo’s first opportunity to work a Super Bowl.

2019 marks the first time the game has been played in Atlanta since 2000, when Tennessee’s Kevin Dyson was stopped half a yard short from giving the world its first-ever Super Bowl overtime. It will be the third time the game has gone to Georgia’s capital and the first to be played at Mercedes-Benz Stadium.

The stadium is less than 1 year old, but it’s no stranger to big games. MBS played host to 2017’s SEC Championship Game, which pushed the Georgia Bulldogs into the College Football Playoff over the Auburn Tigers. One month later, it was the setting for the CFP National Championship Game, where Alabama knocked off the Bulldogs in overtime after an epic comeback.

Atlanta’s brand new stadium helped the city edge out Miami, New Orleans, and Tampa for hosting rights. Instead, Miami’s Hard Rock Stadium will play host to Super Bowl 54, while Tampa’s Raymond James Stadium will take on the responsibility the following year.

[The Cysko Kid]

It's needlessly confusing to try and decide what is and what is not a catch. Collinsworth is as confused as anyone else based on the mercurial rulings we've been seeing. My two cents is that both were catches and both were touchdowns and the rules need to change. 

 

Was the ball in his hands and was he in bounds? Yes? Catch. 

 

Was the ball in his hands and did he break the plane of the endzone? Yes? Touchdown. 

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

We're not that far apart here especially if we stay in tact with the title of this thread.  You said you agreed 100% it was a catch because you clearly watched the replay and counted steps once possession was established.  We both trusted our eyes in a world where a picture is worth a 1000 words (unless they're Collinsworth's). The original intention of replay is to get calls like this right even though that doesn't always happen. In this case it did. For example, what did the referee explain when the call on the field was correct?  He explained what you and I saw and described Ertz as a runner (meaning possession established with steps that followed).   Even though I agree with you that the rules of a catch can be controversial - nothing about Ertz' catch was controversial once the replay aired. 

Now, the other TD reception by Philly where possession and getting both feet in after it can be debated. I can see some controversy; but who gets more favoritism by the officials than NE when it comes to penalties called and overlooked?  Hard to feel sorry for them when they only had a volume of 3 penalties against them in the AFC Championship and SB combined.   Watch how how they get away with grabbing and pinning 1 arm of a WR that their opponent gets flagged for.

I'm with you that I'd like them to straighten out the rules of a catch.

Yeah, we're on the same page with everything you're saying. The thing is though as I was mentioning there was "controversy" in that it's friggin impossible to decide what is a catch and what isn't. To me, that TD was 100% a td catch and didn't even need a review. The fact that it took as long as it did to be "confirmed" does signify there was a serious question of it remaining a TD. It should be a lot more cut and dry, and I'm hopeful they will look into it this offseason.

[Flugel]

19 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Yeah, we're on the same page with everything you're saying. The thing is though as I was mentioning there was "controversy" in that it's friggin impossible to decide what is a catch and what isn't. To me, that TD was 100% a td catch and didn't even need a review. The fact that it took as long as it did to be "confirmed" does signify there was a serious question of it remaining a TD. It should be a lot more cut and dry, and I'm hopeful they will look into it this offseason.

I hear ya.  The Commissioner mentioned over the weekend they will be trying to make it more cut and dry in the very near future.  The last 2-3 years have given them more than enough examples to finally prioritize this moving forward.

[Nero]

3 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call

Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call

3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.

Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT

The 3rd one is unbelievable. You see it on the highlights Gronk running and behind him, BAAAAAAMB! A guy disappearing from the play. I still believe it would be a non-factor (less than 3 seconds from end of regulation, in the 30yd line, probably?) But that was astonishing. 

[Richiswhere]

Cris Collinsworth ....oh wait if we just slow it down just a bit more  oh look at that....can you guys slow it down a bit more and show a angle that we don't have. 

Colliinsworth SUCKS and has always SUCKED

[Gunz41]

36 minutes ago, Nero said:

The 3rd one is unbelievable. You see it on the highlights Gronk running and behind him, BAAAAAAMB! A guy disappearing from the play. I still believe it would be a non-factor (less than 3 seconds from end of regulation, in the 30yd line, probably?) But that was astonishing. 

It is a BIG factor. Whether the outcome changes, who knows, probability is low, but NE would have had another play. But even with the play, he was running down field with Gronk and the way the ball was tipped up in air, he could have been trailing just for that purpose.

PHI COULD have been called for roughing passer on play as well. Not a call I would make or advocate, but with protection of QBs it's possible.

It's funny to me how people are so hating of NE that anytime they win, they cheated or refs gave them the game, but when calls go against them, "Well they weren't called for this or that." Besides the 2 pt play with PI, the calls or no calls effected the score against NE not PHI. I didn't really care who won, but the 1st controversy over catch was NOT a catch by the rules, the 2nd one WAS a catch. And then the Hail Mary, that did hurt them.

And before someone says it, those plays did NOT cost them the game. Eagles outplayed them, but they did happen. Point being, in this world where Patriots (And refs) "cheat" then Eagles did last night.

Can't  have it both ways

[jcam222]

I thought it was blown out of proportion too. He was clearly a runner when he broke the plane. 

[Dutch Oven]

I generally like Collinsworth - especially when he does Steelers games (Steelers fans HATE him like Arabs hate the Jews) - but it felt like he had a narrative he needed to deliver to the NFL and goddamn he was going to deliver it, regardless of how obvious it was a catch. 

[Tour2ma]

On 2/5/2018 at 5:55 AM, Flugel said:

Normally I like the commentary of Cris Collinsworth; but my God Cris can you at least look at the reply your network was showing multiple times instead of spending all your time persuading yourself it was Jesse James part II?  Ertz got 3 steps down after the grab unless my little beer buzz added 1; but it looked like the first step was simultaneous with the grab.

The other TD reception invited some questioning; BUT seeing NE only flagged 2-3 times overall in their last 2 games more than evened that up overall.  They get away with a lot of arm grabbing on receivers their opponents haven't (even on the 1 out of bounds in the AFC Championship on a Pro Bowl Corner).   While 2 wrongs don't make a right, I'll take a left and say it's a bout time NE's opponent got the break that usually favors NE.

Cris came around... somehow by the time it was over the steps counted stood at 4. The other TD "reception" wasn't one...

As for penalties... refs ate their whistles... and not just for NE. Early hold on Kelce was let go when he extended his arm to his side across the chest of rushing Pat... Harrison IIRC. That's an automatic call 17 weeks a year.

[mjp28]

Ertz - TD, became a runner.

Jesse James - probably, maybe a TD that's the part of the rule that needs clarified. If you have possession of the ball -and- cross the goal line plain it's a TD whether  you juggle the ball later or not afterward. Now in the field of play, sidelines, etc. still needs work, too inconsistent and time consuming. 

[Gunz41]

What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.

The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.

It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.

[mjp28]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

What people seem to fail to understand with the catch rule (Not anyone in particular), is the argument of a running back crossing the goaline. They are different situations. A running back gains possession when he gets the ball, while a receiver has to by completing the catch.

The rule is not wrong, it's just how some interpret it. I dont know how to "fix" it for most to understand it, but the essence of the rule shouldn't be changed.

It's the difference in James and Ertz that shows the difference.

I agree with you  (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.

On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different. 

Just ask steelrz fans everywhere  (oh bad example  ).

[Gunz41]

8 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I agree with you  (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.

On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different. 

Just ask steelrz fans everywhere  (oh bad example  ).

It depends on if the receiver has gained possession if it should be the same. You can't just "catch" it and cross the goal line. That is the difference between a runner and receiver. 

[StinkHole]

9 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I agree with you  (I think) I believe we need to simplify and clarify some rules where possible. Having 3-5 minute delays because even the review people aren't sure about catch/no catch and other similar situations aren't really good for the game, even announcers with spotters and good monitors have no clue at times and wait for the call.

On the goal line when a runner even touches the plane that's it immediately TD, it should be the same for recievers, in the field of play or sidelines might be different. 

Just ask steelrz fans everywhere  (oh bad example  ).

Yep....the object of the damn game is for the ball to cross the goal line, once the ball crosses anything that follows is irrelevant.

This video of an NFL rep contradicting himself has been brought up by many.

Al Riveron says "As we can see here Roethlisberger COMPLETES A PASS to  James"....wait, say what ? "Completes a pass to James" you said?

 

[Nero]

The  problem I believe lies within the term 'the process of the catch': they should take back the rule to the days when you only had to look if the receiver had the ball in his hands and both feet in. 

The damn process makes you:

- Mantain possesion throughout the entire process.

- You count if the player is in bounds and therefore it is a catch only after the possesion of the ball is constant. 

- The ball has to "survive the ground". 

- Any subtle movement of the ball puts on jeopardy if the receiver has the possesion. 

 

There are many little things to check out, and analyzing for 5 mins something that happens in less than 3 seconds is a huge overdimension of the replay time. 

Takeaway the "process" and it will be simple again. 

[bjh2130]

On 2/5/2018 at 10:10 AM, Gunz41 said:

Ertz had made 2 steps after gaining control vs Jesse James just turn. Right Call

Clement didn't maintain control throughout the catch. Wrong Call

3 very bad no calls to me were 1. Hit on Cooks was certainly helmet to helmet, the Pass Interference on Jeffrey on 2 pt conversion, and the Pass Interference on the Hail Mary. Gronk may have been hit in the endzone, but that is a no call, but another receiver was BLASTED down field, that should have been the easiest call of the night.

Bottom line is the Eagles outplayed the Patriots. Foles was GREAT

The first one cooks was a runner. No longer a defenseless receiver helmet to helmet was completely allowed. I don't know about the receiver blasted down field. If it were when the ball was in the air he would have been close enough to the ball to draw the pass interference call. Sort of like a catchable ball rule. If it was when brady still had the ball its 5 yards and still another hail Mary from the 45.