calfoxwc Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Sober Poet said: I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc. Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue. Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace. As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back... I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that." Training by who? don't help kids being murdered? WTF ? who trained you? the coward of broward? Every situation is different. There is no training that fits all. Look at Broward. My ccw instructor was 4 1/2 years as a special forces weapons expert. I talked about wanting to take an advanced ccw class or two - he teaches them now. I asked him about Sandy Hook - he said how do you outrun bullets? Hide from a murdered too close with nowhere to hide? The problem is gun free zones. A murderer knows he has a free zone to murder with no danger to himself. Sick stuff. Seriously - the kids who DID hide, died? That is your trainer's training? https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/us/illinois-teacher-hero/index.html she was trained. She had a better trainer than you. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/ Maybe if the teacher who ran with students, had tackled the murderer... the other kids may have lived, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 I can assure you that no one knows how they will react in a situation like this. I've seen big muscular guys freeze up in combat and small skinny guys show no fear. It's a flight or fight that happens in an instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yeah. That is not news. I covered all that in my initial post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said: Yeah. That is not news. I covered all that in my initial post So you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Trump is no coward - and he wasn't being a fool when he said that. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/report-donald-trump-stopped-baseball-bat-beating-on-new-york-city-street-in-1991/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted February 27, 2018 Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sober Poet Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 11:17 AM, The Cysko Kid said: Then I can die without regret knowing that I did what I could to try and save kids. What you are saying reeks of cowardice to me. I've had a good life. I'm only 38 now not as old as some of the posters here but old enough to have experienced everything kids are getting robbed of if they get shot down by a maniac. Take your hero complex to your grave then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sober Poet Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 11:26 AM, calfoxwc said: Training by who? don't help kids being murdered? WTF ? who trained you? the coward of broward? Every situation is different. There is no training that fits all. Look at Broward. My ccw instructor was 4 1/2 years as a special forces weapons expert. I talked about wanting to take an advanced ccw class or two - he teaches them now. I asked him about Sandy Hook - he said how do you outrun bullets? Hide from a murdered too close with nowhere to hide? The problem is gun free zones. A murderer knows he has a free zone to murder with no danger to himself. Sick stuff. Seriously - the kids who DID hide, died? That is your trainer's training? https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/us/illinois-teacher-hero/index.html she was trained. She had a better trainer than you. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teacher-school-took-down-gunman-recently-trained-active-shooters/ Maybe if the teacher who ran with students, had tackled the murderer... the other kids may have lived, too. Who cares what you "think"? The training that I had broke down the major mass killings point by point, death by death, as they happened, examining the blueprints of the buildings involved and the timing of the arrival of security forces as it happened. We considered each action by the killers and victims and problematized them so that we could keep ourselves and each other alive. We actually barricaded ourselves in a room that had serious security flaws and armed ourselves with anything we could to plan our counterattack if necessary. We ran a scenario where we encountered the killer and hit him with, well, wiffle balls, pretending they were heavier objects Your fantasies were not included. Go figure. The first thing they said was not "run down the hall and impale yourself on a bullet." Again, go figure. You He-Men are ridiculous. The only thing to do is run in and die like Daddy Trump says. Save 'em all or die, just like your moral absolutism (look that up if you have to). My trainers were real men who had been there, not pathetic keyboard heroes addicted to whining...like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 bs. Letting some kids die to save yourself is your "training" ? pitiful. Good think Navy Seals and Marines are not trained to lay down and save yourself and let others just die. You said you were trained to run, and the other kids could just die. Have a nice day. I can't imagine you ever saving anybody, ever. Your "here's why it pays to be a coward" attitude surely wasn't in your training. no principles, you got nothin. You're in a gymnasium - full of kids. a door pops open and a gunman starts shooting. oh, your training says to get all the entire gym in a room and blockade the door, and find pencils and erasers to use as weapons "if necessary". Before the gunman murders a bunch of kids? "but it's okay because you saved all the others that were lucky they didn't get murdered and made it out into the hallway" egad, that's a disgrace. You tackle the murdered and keep him from shooting anybody, hopefully. Exactly what my ccw instructor told me. "how you going to outrun bullets? How do you hide when there is no place to hide? " who were your trainers? the local officials from the democratic socialist party? yeah, you be standing outside, behind a wall, waiting for somebody else to go save kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Sober Poet said: Take your hero complex to your grave then. Hide in a closet, then, and hope you can look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your hopefully long life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 You realize you're talking down to two veterans right? Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted February 28, 2018 Report Share Posted February 28, 2018 About a year ago, my employer made it mandatory that all of us took ALICE training (active shooter). Retaliation against an attacker was part of the training, that is the “Counter” part of the acronym. . . Alert Lockdown Inform Counter Evacuate https://www.alicetraining.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said: About a year ago, my employer made it mandatory that all of us took ALICE training (active shooter). Retaliation against an attacker was part of the training, that is the “Counter” part of the acronym. . . Alert Lockdown Inform Counter Evacuate https://www.alicetraining.com/ sounds like great training, sober poet had new age liberal "run, hide, save yourself while a bunch of kids die...." training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 "”If every German Jew and anti-Nazi had possessed a Mauser rifle, twenty rounds and the will to use it, Adolf Hitler would be a footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic.” — Aaron Zelman, 1995 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 7:55 AM, Sober Poet said: I work in education. Anyone actually had the training? I have. Couple different kinds actually: hide, fight, run, etc. Well-intentioned or not, what he is saying goes directly against training. That's my issue. Ask the custodian at Virginia Tech. Wait, you can't. He's dead. He heard shots and ran upstairs right into the line of fire. Rest in peace. As for fighting. Let's take a peek into the bathroom at Sandy Hook. The killer has two groups cornered. Each group has a teacher and students. The one teacher pushes the students and they all break for the door. The other huddles with students in the corner. The ones who made the break lived. The others did not. Rest in peace. There are different ways of fighting back... I hear you all though. We all want to think that we could make a difference. I distinctly remember after one training, one of the maintenance fellas asked, "so, what do we do when we run in to intervene?" The trainer said: "I just told you not to do that." My son is a middle school teacher/coach. Last fall a student came running in from the parking lot outside yelling that a girl was being abducted in the parking lot. My son, who has 20 years experience in martial arts, immediately ran for the door to the parking lot even though "policy" called for him to get the security guard inside about 70 yds. away. As he passed the kid he yelled at him to go get the security guard while he himself sprinted outside. As it turned out the girl was just arguing with someone in a car and yelled that he was abducting her just to get attention. Nonetheless the principal thanked him for his quick thinking and action to stop what had been reported instead of following "policy". It got around to the rest of the staff very quickly and suddenly he was a "hero" despite him saying that with his own personal training there was no other choice but to intervene. Sometimes you have to be true to yourself and do what you think your experience tells you that you can do even if it might be against "policy". I am very proud of what he did even though he had the potential of being in harms way without any weapon other than his hands and feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sober Poet Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Tell ya what guys. We have a mock active shooter event planned for this spring that will encompass our entire campus. It will be huge. We have to practice, because the threat is that real. We have to advertise it to keep people safe. We know the date, but don't know exactly when or where it is going to break out. It will have federal oversight, and will be a joint effort between fire, safety and law enforcement at all levels. Cal asked who trains us? Trump's government. Plain and simple. So yeah, I have a problem when he undercuts his best people directly...probably fire them next for disagreeing with him. And no one is saying you can't do what your conscience dictates, grow up and reread the thread. Do you guys realize that we also have standing policies where we HAVE to intervene if things are getting physical between a couple or some such? We all have roles to keep people safe, ourselves and others. It makes me think of the Seattle mass shooting in 2016. There were many interviews with people with conceal carry permits who were armed at the time and did not go out and try to take out the shooter. Why? The most compelling reason for me was: "How would the cops know I wasn't the shooter?" Were they cowards or did they understand their role in the crisis? And, really, what are the chances of you actually being outside a grade school when someone shoots it up? Astronomical but improving I would say. It's a false argument to provide cover for a president who can't control his mouth, or fingers. Get a clue. That said, these trainings and mock killers roaming the campus can get pretty intense. I mentioned whiffle balls in an earlier post. We had to resort to whiffle balls and bean bags and write things "stapler" or "fire extinguisher" on them. Why? Because they actually had people arm themselves with office equipment in the first scenario and some folks got so involved that they actually bounced staplers and paper weights off the head of the "shooter" and injured him. No kidding. They lit him up. I believe I have done my civic duty by providing some insight into the state-of-the-art in survival training in these scenarios and am going to leave this thread now and work on some interesting stuff for the Barber Shop. I will try to remember to return and tell you how I did during the scenario. I doubt very much I get to deploy the kamikaze approach many of you seem to favor, since I manage people and must see to their safety as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sober Poet Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 15 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said: You realize you're talking down to two veterans right? Well done. Thanks sincerely for your service. Sincerely. It doesn't give you the right to be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Sober Poet said: It will have federal oversight, and will be a joint effort between fire, safety and law enforcement at all levels. Cal asked who trains us? Trump's government. darn those obaMao liberal cowards still there. Well, there ya go again , running and hiding, whiffle balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted March 1, 2018 Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Sober Poet said: Thanks sincerely for your service. Sincerely. It doesn't give you the right to be wrong though. Don't condescend to me. I didn't serve for thanks from the likes of you. Let's look at it this way. Theres run-hide-fight. You go ahead and do your duty to run and hide. No one will think less of you for that. Not even me. However if you catch a shooter reloading or you come up behind him and you don't attack? You just run and hide? Now I will think less of you. If you don't use an opportunity like that to fight and you live you might as well have died. Soldiers have faced much worse odds than a single shooter and lived to tell the tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sober Poet Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 On 3/1/2018 at 1:37 PM, The Cysko Kid said: Don't condescend to me. I didn't serve for thanks from the likes of you. Sure. You brought your veteran status to the fore when losing the discussion. In my opinion you used it as a shield. You claim you felt insulted, that I was being too rough on you and Cal. What a joke, especially in this ruthless political forum run by traitors. Yes, I said traitors. I believe you were flailing, trying to distract from your unjustifiable suicide position, so you wrapped yourself in the flag. I took it easy on you (while still holding you accountable) and, true to form, you then reject my sincere thanks. So THAT is why you brought it up! You could reasonably suspect that I do in fact respect the military and would respond in kind, and then you use that occasion for insults and to try to claim the high ground. Pathetic. Try learning to argue instead. Here's a clue; you didn't get to pick who you served. Nope, never, not once. You served Hillary Clinton. You served Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi. Bernie Sanders. All of us. So did Cal. Those are the facts. You do not get a line item veto on who you defended. Tell yourself otherwise, go ahead, what do I care? Here's another clue: Don't say stupid sh* t then expect a pass, for any reason. So, to further recap, you disrespect my respect for the military, and then use my own argument "against me" and think I will not notice. You said: "Let's look at it this way. Theres run-hide-fight. You go ahead and do your duty to run and hide. No one will think less of you for that. Not even me." Horse sh*t. How about your "reeks of cowardice" comment from before? Just because you feel like being rational now doesn't erase what you said earlier defending Daddy Donny. I will hold you to it, that is who you are. Or, if your position somehow has "improved" then I take credit for it. I promised an update on our active shooter drill. Here it is, then I will cease to participate in this political forum run by individuals who hate representative democracy. Shooter attacked our cafeteria. Seven were killed. Our campus police office is close by and they were able to intervene and shoot the attacker. My office suite is one floor up and on the other side of the building. An emergency text message told us where the shooter was. I grabbed my staff, as well as seven visitors who were clueless across the hall, and led them down the hall and out the exit on the complete other end of the building. I led my little troupe down to our standalone child development center and we stood guard as best we could. And Cal, yes, I talked to the feds. Trump has put his stamp all over this process. I pretty much couldn't stand Obama either yet have to give Trump credit for this one. I also asked them about his "run into the line of fire" comments and if that was what they suggested people do.... they turned red and said nothing. They looked embarrassed. Great Leader my butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Sorry chum but I never was in danger of losing that discussion. I can't help but notice you're only revisiting it now, weeks later, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 As you might notice I turned away from trump quite early in that. The reason being is that I think trump is, at best, a windbag but on this particular comment I think his heart was in the right place and it's a sentiment that many people can commiserate with. If, of course, they don't have an agenda of opposition of everything he says. I challenge you to find any instance on this board where I have offered anything but the faintest of praise for Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 I will, however, double down on you being a fu¢king pansy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 sober, it took that long for you to weasel up with a retort to getting your rear handed to you? sober poet - .... sheply on the wagon? "big man" doing diddley on a school drill. Your students would do well to not follow your sorry chicken azz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yeah and his dumba$$ would of been shot and killed like the 17 kids who were also unarmed.. What would he have done against a kid with an AR? Throw his toupee at him and hope it distracts him? Ahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 with him distracted, you rush him and tackle him, disarm him. That is what one coach did. https://www.wftv.com/news/trending-now/hero-teacher-tackles-gunman-saves-students-from-rampaging-classmate/612773250 McQueen, 40, a math and gym teacher, was able to subdue and disarm the student before anyone was fatally injured. “She’s been trained obviously, but in these scenarios, you just don’t know what’s going to happen until it happens,” Mattoon Police Chief Jeff Branson said during a press conference Wednesday night according to the Shelbyville Daily Union. “Had the teacher not responded as quickly as she had I think the situation would have been a lot different.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 hours ago, domcucch1994 said: Yeah and his dumba$$ would of been shot and killed like the 17 kids who were also unarmed.. What would he have done against a kid with an AR? Throw his toupee at him and hope it distracts him? Ahahaha Seriously how do you know what he would or would not have done? All we know for sure is that the security officers who were paid to do something didn't. Because, of course, it was the gun's fault. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Seriously how do you know what he would or would not have done? All we know for sure is that the security officers who were paid to do something didn't. Because, of course, it was the gun's fault. WSS Don't get me wrong, those panzy a$$ officers who had guns dropped the ball big time! You honestly think Donald Trump would run into a scenario like that without packing heat? I call bs... Now maybe if he was inside at the time, and the loon was headed his way, different story.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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