gumby73 Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either. yea but watching a pair of Jacks.. in Hamm & Lambert made Sipe look small..Lambert would make anybody nervous in full stride at your hyde.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs? Yeah...and the offensive line and defensive line guys were 250 pounds. Maybe we should draft some linemen that are that small since it worked 35 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 yet Russel Wilson is 5'11", 215. Drew Brees - 6', 209. Tyrod Taylor – Buffalo Bills – 6'1" Aaron Rodgers – Green Bay Packers – 6'2" Brian Hoyer – Houston Texans – 6'2" Andy Dalton – Cincinnati Bengals – 6'2" They are still in the NFL, not players from 35 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 Your list is two anomalies - Wilson and Brees, a mediocre starter in Taylor, and three guys that are an inch taller and probably 20-30 lbs heavier than Sipe, two inches taller than Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 3/12/2018 at 3:38 PM, hoorta said: I've always had Rosen in my top 3. To have him as our #1 in the draft? It's going to seriously depend how much weight Dorsey & Company put on his injury history. Those two concussions scare me. Josh is also the least mobile compared to Darnold and Mayfield- he's going to get hit a lot in the pros. I've mentioned he has a tennis player build, do we take him at #1 and watch him turn into another Sam Bradford, great when he's healthy- except he never is? After listening to Cosell, I'm firming up my ranking #1 Mayfield, #2 Darnold, #3 Rosen. Just no to Allen and Jackson. Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but... My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Right now that's the way I'm leaving. Maybe swap Rosen and Darnold I worry that Rosen is skinny and I don't particularly like the rumors of his attitude but... My worry about Sam his watching Ohio State hand him his a$$. WSS Eh it is a team game. Darnold was getting murdered all game. Fournette looked like trash against Alabama. He seems to be doing o.k. for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 3/12/2018 at 8:26 AM, TexasAg1969 said: Allen will be "The Big Flop". He just can't make wide open passes. And the reason he won't "thread the needle" is because he will not throw those, he'll run. I really do not want to be trading off a first rounder in 2019 because he was near identical to Sir Kaiser. I completely agree. The only way Allen will be good (in my mind) is if he goes to a good team that allows him to really sit and learn a while. But I have to be honest, a guy throwing a ball very hard and far doesn't mean squat to me. I want the guy who can make quick decisions, throw it to someone IN STRIDE, NOT turn it over, someone who loves football, and a guy who is revered by his teammates. Oh look, that sounds like Baker Mayfield! Cosell seems to really like him, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigalow80 Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 I got the impression he really likes Darnold the most, followed by mayfield. I'll take an accurate passer all day long over a cannon. At one point does the nfl realize that physical attributes are not the end all, be all of nfl qbs? I think this is why Darnold is the safest bet. He's big, accurate for the most part, mobile, and has great character...He checks all the boxes. He's also 20 years old! He needs a lot of work on protecting the football, his footwork inside the pocket, and a tweak to his mechanics (not a tim tebow type fix, but a little would help. he still gets the ball out fast and his fumbles were rarely due to his wind up but more to not protecting the ball). The OSU game is brought up a lot, he had his turnovers (one really bad pick) but it was clear that his offensive line was NO MATCH for that OSU defense. You can count on one hand how many "clean" pockets he had. I'm not saying it wasn't an eye raiser when I saw it, but he made plays and for the most part and made that more of a game than it should have been. Plus, with TT on-board, he can take time to develop and learn. A luxury Kizer never had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 16 hours ago, calfoxwc said: Well, I believe we are looking at Mayfield or Allen. Allen has a sky high upside, and will have plenty of time to Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration. It will be Darnold or Rosen get his footwork perfected. And, Mayfield will have time to learn the game. All this talk about Mayfield's height - does anybody not know that Brian Sipe was 6'1", 195 lbs? Last year, there were 7 games, maybe 8, that they could have won with a field goal or a TD. flip the talent switch hugely, add a very good OC, and watch the NFL be shocked at the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 15 hours ago, SD_Tom said: Sipe didn't have guys like JJ watt and Joey bosa and myles Garrett lined up across from him either. Actually...yes, he did. He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: Actually...yes, he did. He had mean Joe Greene....Jack Lambert, Robert Brazile, Ted Hendricks....Jack Ham, Andre Tippet...and others...those just in the AFC. Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: Duly noted. But weren't guys like that more physical outliers than the norm back then? All positions are bigger and faster then they used to be. No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL. DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275. But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: Actually....I believe those are the two guys we have eliminated from consideration. It will be Darnold or Rosen well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol To sign the ol, I think it means: 1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it. 2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts . 3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile. So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security. We'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: well. one of us is looking at it bass-ackwards, and you are the judge. lol Yes...one of us is. To sign the ol, I think it means: 1. Not a great draft for ot at all. Don't want to draft OG's if they can help it. What has that got to do with which QB they would take? 2. They really want to run the ball and protect on qb rollouts . What has that got to do with which QB they would take? 3. They signed Taylor - a rollout qb, who really is great at ball security...and they have the OC that likes to see a qb be mobile. So, I think it isn't rosen on the mobility, and I think it isn't darnold now, because of the ball security. Yet....complete lack of accuracy trumps all that. We'll see how it goes. Its OK...you are entitled to be wrong. Based on all evidence of your presence on these boards, you usually are....but that is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 36 minutes ago, The Gipper said: No...they weren't. The ONLY positions back then that were smaller than those that play today are the interior OL....and the interior DL. DEs, MLBs, OLBs etc....pretty much played with the same size, speed as players do today. It is a COMPLETE myth that players now overall are bigger, faster. ONLY the two that I mentioned.....OL, interior DL have gotten bigger...plus QBs are a bit taller and heavier. JJ Watt and Mean Joe Greene were about the same size: 6'4 280. Deacon Jones DE may have been just a bit more slim: 6'5 275. But DTs today probably run normally in the 300 lb range....unless you get a Shelton who pushed 330. Most DTs then were probably more like 270-275. But, as noted, the OL ran about that same weight...where today they have that extra 25 lbs on them. I would wager that if the combine were done then....you would find the speeds of players have not drastically changed. I doubt that hardly any OL back then would have done as poorly as Orlando Brown Jr. There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then. But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman. Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league. Wr seem way bigger now. I'm in my early 40's, so that was before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 hour ago, SD_Tom said: There definitely weren't QB's like big Ben or Deshaun Watson, or Carson Wentz back then. But I guess you can only get so much bigger and faster within a position like LB and lineman. Seems like the TEs are much different now because of all the basketball players coming into the league. Wr seem way bigger now. I'm in my early 40's, so that was before my time. I don't think DeShaun Watson is all that big. is he? But certainly there were some big QBs. Big enough. Bradshaw was 6'3. Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3. Staubach was 6'3. Even bad QBs could be that big: Mike Phipps was 6'3. But many were between 6'0 and 6'2. Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas, Dawson, Jurgenson, So...like I said, QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch. Average today may be 6'3. Some shorter, some taller. There were a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s: Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions. Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts. So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it? Dan McGwire 6'8 no good. Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck. I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco. Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year. Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either. Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell? Surely not. So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Gipper said: I don't think DeShaun Watson is all that big. is he? But certainly there were some big QBs. Big enough. Bradshaw was 6'3. Fouts 6'3. Stabler was 6'3. Staubach was 6'3. Even bad QBs could be that big: Mike Phipps was 6'3. But many were between 6'0 and 6'2. Namath, Greise, Starr, Tarkenton, Unitas, Dawson, Jurgenson, So...like I said, QBs have gotten taller on average. probably by about an inch. Average today may be 6'3. Some shorter, some taller. There were a couple of tall guys in the 60s/70s: Sonny Gibbs was 6'7...but he only lasted like one year with the Lions. Frank Patrick played from 1970-1972....but made no starts. So....QBs that tall then were no good......and that has not really changed, has it? Dan McGwire 6'8 no good. Osweiler, Lynch, Ryan Mallet.....each 6'7 suck. I think, perhaps, the ONLY good QB over like 6'5 has been the 6'6 Joe Flacco. Derek Anderson is 6'6....but he had only 1 good year. Marc Wilson was not too bad....but not to good either. Jamarcus Russell....Scott Mitchell? Surely not. So, even now it seems there is a maximum of generally 6'5 on the efficacy of QBs. Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that. Or at least it's more common now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: Watson is 6'3, but I meant most QB's didn't have speed/athletic ability like that. Or at least it's more common now. What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember? With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism? (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 minute ago, The Gipper said: What do you mean....he is just the Black Tarkenton, remember? With all of Tarkenton's speed and athleticism? (actually...Tark DID have a lot of speed and athleticism) don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, SD_Tom said: don't forget his low velocity noodle arm. It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it: Passing Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 246 239 124-109-6 3686 6467 57.0 47003 342 5.3 266 4.1 89 7.3 6.5 12.8 191.1 80.4 274 2337 6.63 5.87 4.1 29 33 236 13 yrs MIN 177 170 91-73-6 2635 4569 57.7 33098 239 5.2 194 4.2 89 7.2 6.4 12.6 187.0 80.1 175 1567 5.96 5.28 6.2 19 19 161 5 yrs NYG 69 69 33-36-0 1051 1898 55.4 13905 103 5.4 72 3.8 84 7.3 6.7 13.2 201.5 81.0 99 770 5.84 5.23 7.7 10 14 75 1961 21 MIN QB 10 14 10 2-8-0 157 280 56.1 1997 18 6.4 17 6.1 71 7.1 5.7 12.7 142.6 74.7 11 1962 22 MIN QB 10 14 14 2-11-1 163 329 49.5 2595 22 6.7 25 7.6 89 7.9 5.8 15.9 185.4 66.9 10 1963 23 MIN QB 10 14 13 4-8-1 170 297 57.2 2311 15 5.1 15 5.1 67 7.8 6.5 13.6 165.1 78.0 2 2 10 1964* 24 MIN QB 10 14 14 8-5-1 171 306 55.9 2506 22 7.2 11 3.6 64 8.2 8.0 14.7 179.0 91.8 3 3 14 1965* 25 MIN QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 171 329 52.0 2609 19 5.8 11 3.3 72 7.9 7.6 15.3 186.4 83.8 2 2 15 1966 26 MIN QB 10 14 12 4-7-1 192 358 53.6 2561 17 4.7 16 4.5 68 7.2 6.1 13.3 182.9 73.8 2 1 12 1967* 27 NYG QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 204 377 54.1 3088 29 7.7 19 5.0 70 8.2 7.5 15.1 220.6 85.9 2 2 19 1968* 28 NYG QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 182 337 54.0 2555 21 6.2 12 3.6 84 7.6 7.2 14.0 182.5 84.6 1 2 16 1969* 29 NYG QB 10 14 14 6-8-0 220 409 53.8 2918 23 5.6 8 2.0 65 7.1 7.4 13.3 208.4 87.2 36 289 5.91 6.13 8.1 4 4 14 1970* 30 NYG QB 10 14 14 9-5-0 219 389 56.3 2777 19 4.9 12 3.1 59 7.1 6.7 12.7 198.4 82.2 36 249 5.95 5.57 8.5 2 5 17 1971 31 NYG QB 10 13 13 4-9-0 226 386 58.5 2567 11 2.8 21 5.4 81 6.7 4.8 11.4 197.5 65.4 27 232 5.65 3.90 6.5 1 1 9 1972 32 MIN QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 215 378 56.9 2651 18 4.8 13 3.4 76 7.0 6.4 12.3 189.4 80.2 26 203 6.06 5.50 6.4 4 3 12 1973 33 MIN QB 10 14 14 12-2-0 169 274 61.7 2113 15 5.5 7 2.6 54 7.7 7.7 12.5 150.9 93.2 31 270 6.04 5.99 10.2 14 1974* 34 MIN QB 10 13 13 9-4-0 199 351 56.7 2598 17 4.8 12 3.4 80 7.4 6.8 13.1 199.8 82.1 17 142 6.67 6.13 4.6 1 1 15 1975*+ 35 MIN QB 10 14 14 12-2-0 273 425 64.2 2994 25 5.9 13 3.1 46 7.0 6.8 11.0 213.9 91.8 27 245 6.08 5.89 6.0 1 1 16 1976* 36 MIN QB 10 13 13 10-2-1 255 412 61.9 2961 17 4.1 8 1.9 56 7.2 7.1 11.6 227.8 89.3 25 221 6.27 6.22 5.7 1 3 14 1977 37 MIN QB 10 9 9 6-3-0 155 258 60.1 1734 9 3.5 14 5.4 59 6.7 5.0 11.2 192.7 69.2 22 232 5.36 3.76 7.9 1 2 7 1978 38 MIN QB 10 16 16 8-7-1 345 572 60.3 3468 25 4.4 32 5.6 58 6.1 4.4 10.1 216.8 68.9 27 254 5.37 3.80 4.5 2 1 11 Good enough for 11th all time in yards (he played under the OLD rules....and was the all time leader for a number of years) And 6th all time in TD passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, The Gipper said: blah blah sissy great big ego, blah, judge pudge, blah. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-bradley-chubb-tops-priscos-pre-combine-board/ 2018 NFL Draft Prospect Rankings: Bradley Chubb tops Prisco's pre-combine board The top-ranked quarterback is Wyoming's Josh Allen at No. 5 with UCLA's Josh Rosen right behind at No. 6. USC's Sam Darnold is 10th with Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield at No. 15. Two other quarterbacks -- Oklahoma State's Mason Rudolph and Louisville's Lamar Jackson -- just missed the top 32. *************************************************************************** IOW, Gipper , it's easy to be wrong. Most all of us will be. That's the way it goes. You just think you are always right. A LOT of "experts" are going to be wrong, that is how it is every year. If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to be ELWAY 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_Tom Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 51 minutes ago, The Gipper said: It wasn't such a noodle are that he couldn't get the following numbers over 18 years out of it: Passing Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 246 239 124-109-6 3686 6467 57.0 47003 342 5.3 266 4.1 89 7.3 6.5 12.8 191.1 80.4 274 2337 6.63 5.87 4.1 29 33 236 13 yrs MIN 177 170 91-73-6 2635 4569 57.7 33098 239 5.2 194 4.2 89 7.2 6.4 12.6 187.0 80.1 175 1567 5.96 5.28 6.2 19 19 161 5 yrs NYG 69 69 33-36-0 1051 1898 55.4 13905 103 5.4 72 3.8 84 7.3 6.7 13.2 201.5 81.0 99 770 5.84 5.23 7.7 10 14 75 1961 21 MIN QB 10 14 10 2-8-0 157 280 56.1 1997 18 6.4 17 6.1 71 7.1 5.7 12.7 142.6 74.7 11 1962 22 MIN QB 10 14 14 2-11-1 163 329 49.5 2595 22 6.7 25 7.6 89 7.9 5.8 15.9 185.4 66.9 10 1963 23 MIN QB 10 14 13 4-8-1 170 297 57.2 2311 15 5.1 15 5.1 67 7.8 6.5 13.6 165.1 78.0 2 2 10 1964* 24 MIN QB 10 14 14 8-5-1 171 306 55.9 2506 22 7.2 11 3.6 64 8.2 8.0 14.7 179.0 91.8 3 3 14 1965* 25 MIN QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 171 329 52.0 2609 19 5.8 11 3.3 72 7.9 7.6 15.3 186.4 83.8 2 2 15 1966 26 MIN QB 10 14 12 4-7-1 192 358 53.6 2561 17 4.7 16 4.5 68 7.2 6.1 13.3 182.9 73.8 2 1 12 1967* 27 NYG QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 204 377 54.1 3088 29 7.7 19 5.0 70 8.2 7.5 15.1 220.6 85.9 2 2 19 1968* 28 NYG QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 182 337 54.0 2555 21 6.2 12 3.6 84 7.6 7.2 14.0 182.5 84.6 1 2 16 1969* 29 NYG QB 10 14 14 6-8-0 220 409 53.8 2918 23 5.6 8 2.0 65 7.1 7.4 13.3 208.4 87.2 36 289 5.91 6.13 8.1 4 4 14 1970* 30 NYG QB 10 14 14 9-5-0 219 389 56.3 2777 19 4.9 12 3.1 59 7.1 6.7 12.7 198.4 82.2 36 249 5.95 5.57 8.5 2 5 17 1971 31 NYG QB 10 13 13 4-9-0 226 386 58.5 2567 11 2.8 21 5.4 81 6.7 4.8 11.4 197.5 65.4 27 232 5.65 3.90 6.5 1 1 9 1972 32 MIN QB 10 14 14 7-7-0 215 378 56.9 2651 18 4.8 13 3.4 76 7.0 6.4 12.3 189.4 80.2 26 203 6.06 5.50 6.4 4 3 12 1973 33 MIN QB 10 14 14 12-2-0 169 274 61.7 2113 15 5.5 7 2.6 54 7.7 7.7 12.5 150.9 93.2 31 270 6.04 5.99 10.2 14 1974* 34 MIN QB 10 13 13 9-4-0 199 351 56.7 2598 17 4.8 12 3.4 80 7.4 6.8 13.1 199.8 82.1 17 142 6.67 6.13 4.6 1 1 15 1975*+ 35 MIN QB 10 14 14 12-2-0 273 425 64.2 2994 25 5.9 13 3.1 46 7.0 6.8 11.0 213.9 91.8 27 245 6.08 5.89 6.0 1 1 16 1976* 36 MIN QB 10 13 13 10-2-1 255 412 61.9 2961 17 4.1 8 1.9 56 7.2 7.1 11.6 227.8 89.3 25 221 6.27 6.22 5.7 1 3 14 1977 37 MIN QB 10 9 9 6-3-0 155 258 60.1 1734 9 3.5 14 5.4 59 6.7 5.0 11.2 192.7 69.2 22 232 5.36 3.76 7.9 1 2 7 1978 38 MIN QB 10 16 16 8-7-1 345 572 60.3 3468 25 4.4 32 5.6 58 6.1 4.4 10.1 216.8 68.9 27 254 5.37 3.80 4.5 2 1 11 Good enough for 11th all time in yards (he played under the OLD rules....and was the all time leader for a number of years) And 6th all time in TD passes. I meant watson. That was the knock on him in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 IOW, Gipper , it's easy to be wrong. Most all of us will be. That's the way it goes. You just think you are always right. A LOT of "experts" are going to be wrong, that is how it is every year. If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to be ELWAY 2.0. I don't think I am always right.....it just happens to turn out that way!! Denver unlikely to go after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 On 3/11/2018 at 4:30 PM, Flugel said: Here's a link to a 13 minute video where Nathan Zegura gets Greg Cosell to break down the top rated QBs headed for the 2018 draft from www.clevelandbrowns.com: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Greg-Cosell-breaks-down-QBs-in-the-2018-draft-class/e5e7dc40-a2e5-485b-bb4a-5afeff9829ff I like to hear to what he's looking for in particular. And somewhere around the 12 minute 50 sec mark or so - he reveals who he would take if pressed to do so. If you watch it, I'm interested in hearing what you thought or who you might be interested in (and you can do a 1A and 1B). Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man... Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall. After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice. Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed. Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted March 14, 2018 Report Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 hours ago, calfoxwc said: If Denver gets Allen, he will go on to become ELWAY 2.0. I know Tim Tebow and Paxton Lynch really set the NFL on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Obviously Greg Cosell is a very smart man... Simplest way to put it is that Rosen has the highest floor and a ceiling that is indistinguishable from any of the other top prospects. That's why he is IMO the clear pick. I wish I thought we were going to take him #1 overall. After some gap follows Mayfield on my QB Board. Football-wise I liked everything he showed on tape except an ability to go thru progressions. Just saw a lot of pre-snap determining where he was going to look and he stayed locked on that choice until it either came open or it was time to bail out of the pocket. I think this is going to be our choice. Considering Darnold in the top half of Round 1 is a joke. Darnold is so mechanically flawed. Allen? Dumb as a bag of rocks. A perfect choice at #22... I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 16 hours ago, mjp28 said: I've noticed more of this "my guy is better than your guy" stuff this year than in any year I can remember. And two special awards this year 1. Mr. Irrelevant and 2. Mr. 22, d'oh sorry about that. Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph. As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Have you tried Genko Biloba? Seriously... it's like this every year. It's just that this year there are four names in the debate... five if you count Gip's misguided obsession with Mason Rudolph. As for my comment on Allen. That was the word coming out of the White Board sessions at the Combine. You are the misguided one of you think it is an obsession. All I have said is that his college numbers/stats are as good or better than the others sve Mayfield....and that he could be in the mix to actually turn out to be one of the better QBs to come out of this class in the long run. It is far less than your obsession with Rosen.......or Cal's obsession with Allen/hate for Rosen....or certainly PoGs obsession with Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Let's face it......it is actually somewhat rare that the first QB taken becomes the best QB....and sometimes 2d/3rd rounders...or the 5th or 6th QBs taken become the better QBs of a draft class. Here since 2005: 2005 Best QB was the 2d taken with pick #24....Rodgers #1 OK.....Alex Smith...but not the best 2006 Best QB take was the 3rd one taken: Jay Cutler...if you call him good. Better than Vince Young and Matt Leinert taken over him anyway 2007....Not a decent QB taken at all that year. But 6 were taken in rounds 1-3 (Russell/Quinn/Kolb/Beck etc.) 2008 This was one year when the top two QBs taken turned out to be the best: Matt Ryan #3 Flacco #18 2009 This was a year when the Top taken was the best: Stafford (over the likes of Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman) 2010 This year was a year when the Top QB take was the best....but he has NOT been that good: Sam Bradford. (Tebow/Clausen/McCoy next ones picked) 2011 Best was taken #1...Newton. But...second rounders Dalton and Kaepernik much better than 1st rounders like Locker, Gabbert, Ponder. Even 6th rounder Tyrod Taylor better. 2012 This is a year where the #1 QB taken could arguably be said to be the best....or, there is a counter argument. Luck #1....but note, the next taken: RGII, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler.....all surpassed by guys taken below them: Russell Wilson, Nick Foles, Kurt Cousins. 2013 Another shite class for QBs....only 3 taken in first 3 rounds...and none any good: EJ Manual, Geno Smith, Mike Glennon Nobody after that. (unless you include Landry Jones) 2014 Semi-close call: Bortles top QB taken with #3 pick.....But 2d rounders Derek Carr and Jimmy G.....by many now considered better. Certainly better than Johnny Fuhucking Football and Teddy Twatwater to date. And McCarron taken in round 5...but who knows if he is any good. 2015 The Top two picks were Winston and Mariota....and they to date are the best of this class 2016 Actually....the 8th QB taken has had the best career numbers so far. Dak Prescott. Goff and Wentz though did some catching up in their sophomore years. Who knows about the future. Dak though looking far better than the likes of Cody Kessler, Connor Cook, Christian Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Jacoby Brissett....all taken above him. 2017 For what its worth....Mitch Trubisky DID have the best final numbers of all rookie QBs. But, of course, Watson only played in 7 games....and would have almost certainly been the best. But...HEY.....Kizer DID have the most yards passing of all rookie QBs..by a wide margin actually. But, he also threw as many interceptions just about as the rest of the rookie QB class combined. Watson threw for 19 TDs in 7 games....Kizer threw 11 in 15 games. So...bottom line.....likely in far less than half the years has the Top QB drafted turned out to be the best. Often as not it has been someone taken not in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SissyBoyFloyd Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1. Chubb 4. Fitzpatrick/Barkley/Nelson Now you have 2 great players, no worries, no pressure, just huge improvement to your team. No concern that you might have made wrong choice and struck out again with top picks. You go home and sleep well at end of Day 1 of the draft. Take best QB out of Rudolph, Jackson, White, Falk, Lauletta, and let them learn behind your starter. If they fail to materialize, you repeat process in a year or two, while building the very best team based on continuing taking BPA with every pick, instead of gambling on question mark QBs. Use you 2nd or 3rd round picks to gamble on QBs, not high first rounders on the likes in this draft. None of these top 4 would be considered top picks in any other year in my opinion. As pointed out already, the good starting QBs along with OL, RB, WR can all be had in 2nd-4th rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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