Kevin Hogan Traded

[hoorta]

On 4/8/2018 at 9:47 AM, Flugel said:

Believe it or not Dutch, I join you in wanting to improve the QB position.  That said, we didn't just ship away Dorsey's late round QB from KC you are celebrating most.  We also shipped away a 19 million $ QB last training camp and a 2nd round QB and a QB we got at the top of round 3. My inventory shows a sum of 4 QBs this FO is left trying to upgrade while getting lower draft values back in exchange for (Kizer and Kessler); while the 2nd round Brock gets us the last pick of round 2 and the late round Hogan gets us to move up from pick #205 to pick #188.   Wouldn't it be nice if we started selecting the right QBs so we don't have to keep pretending we're all pumped about the lesser exchange values we keep getting back for these bad QB choices?  That's a lot of spinning the wheels only to still need a QB.   That probably brings us to the common ground of being glad we have a more experienced FO in charge this year.

I don't have a dog in this fight- but your facts aren't correct. The last pick in the second round is the one we got from the Eagles, passing on Carson Wentz. The Osweiler pick is the #35 overall we got from the Texans to take Brock off their hands.  One of Sashi's better moves, most teams with the cap room would happily buy #35 for $16 million. But don't tell Ghoolie Haslam isn't cheap. 

PS- I call the QB moves addition by subtraction.  Hogan was the one who wanted out- and Dorsey obliged him. 

[Mike H]

Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.

Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.

Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.

John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.

Or maybe not.

And Hi.

 

 

 

[Unsympathetic]

Hogan simply doesn't have the physical ability to play in the NFL... getting 10 spots in the 6th for a guy whose closest thing to sports should be as commissioner of a fantasy football league is a genius move.

Look, if he was as good as hopes and dreams asserted, he'd have more than a 1:2 TD-INT ratio -- and he'd be able to throw more than a checkdown.

Hate Drew Stanton as the QB3 all you want, and I want to do a lot of that.. but at least he isn't incompetent.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

Hate Drew Stanton as the QB3 all you want, and I want to do a lot of that.. but at least he isn't incompetent.

Stanton is there to stand by the clipboard QB and teach him everything he knows from all his years in the league. He's a coach and that's a good thing.

[Zombo]

5 hours ago, Mike H said:

Kevin Hogan's start against Houston was one of the worst I have ever seen, closely behind Brian Hoyer's playoff start for the Texans vs. Kansas City. Both are awful, toilet-bowl quality NFL quarterbacks.

Basically, the Redskins "surrendered" 17 draft slots in a round that doesn't matter for the chance to cut Hogan after using his arm during camp.

Starting Hogan instead of Kizer probably would have ended equally as terrible and equally as pointless as trotting Kizer out there every week--but in hindsight, at least one team valued Kizer enough to trade a decent defensive back for him. Hogan was worth a bag of rocks. Kizer at least has a potential opportunity to play in the NFL again... Hogan? Lol, maybe if he's lucky.

John Dorsey has passed on Kevin Hogan twice after drafting him. Even the guy whose job it is to evaluate QBs, who used an actual pick on him, has now said two times that he made a mistake. But I guess a guy named Flugel who's forum warrior caping for him is the guy everyone should listen to.

Or maybe not.

And Hi.

 

 

 

Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?

Zombo

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Goodfellas you all are going to end up like Joe Pesci

A little Goodfellas trivia: In the movie, an unnamed Lucchese soldier whacks Tommy DeSimone (who Joe Pesci plays in the movie) in the basement of a house that DeSimone thought would be where he was being "made". The true story? A Gambino soldier whacked Tommy DeSimone in the basement of an Italian restaurant in the Bronx. The Gambino soldier's name: John Gotti. 

https://nypost.com/2015/07/12/new-book-reveals-john-gottis-role-in-goodfellas-murder/

 

[TexasAg1969]

5 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?

Zombo

I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.

[Furious Styles]

Many people in recovery are convincing and  persuasive like that.

Hopefully he will go the CFL route and prove his way back into the NFL.

[Zombo]

13 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.

If all that is true, and I'm not saying it's not ... Manziel doesn't have the body or physical gifts to be an NFL starter. He's still under 6 foot, 205 poinds or so, compare that to a Deshaun Watson, a similar style but 6'4 220 with more arm and better touch. I don't see Manziel making it through a 16 game schedule if he ever beat out 3 NFL QBs for a starting job, which he would never do.

Zombo

[TexasAg1969]

20 minutes ago, Zombo said:

If all that is true, and I'm not saying it's not ... Manziel doesn't have the body or physical gifts to be an NFL starter. He's still under 6 foot, 205 poinds or so, compare that to a Deshaun Watson, a similar style but 6'4 220 with more arm and better touch. I don't see Manziel making it through a 16 game schedule if he ever beat out 3 NFL QBs for a starting job, which he would never do.

Zombo

It would require the learning disciple of a Drew Brees. He's a long way from that, but as a person he appears to be serious about both sobriety and maintaining mental health. There's a tough learning curve for that as well, but I'm just hearing what I would be listening for as a counselor regardless of talent. He may end up staying in the CFL for less $$, but be happier as a person in the long run. I'm thinking of going to see him play this sat. since the stadium the Spring league is using is just down the road about 10 miles or so. Maybe I can get him to sign my primo Manziel Browns jersey for my grandson.

EDIT: I think the one coach that would be interested enough to pick him up after some successful time in the CFL would be John Gruden. I think he likes him as a player and a person. But like any NFL coach he will need to see a track record on Johnny Sober Football.

[ballpeen]

Trading Hogan was the only thing we could next to cutting him.  Hogan asked for the ability to work a trade.  It sounded then like his agent already had a buyer.  Moving up 16 slots in whatever round it was was a good deal.

 

We just signed TT to start.  We just signed Stanton to back-up and be the mentor for whoever we draft at 1 or 4.  No way we were going to keep 4 QBs.  I like Hogan.  I felt we should have been playing him over Flattop, it is what it is.  I knew since we signed Stanton that Hogan was toast.

[Mike H]

4 hours ago, Zombo said:

Ya, Hogan blew, any reason to throw Hoyer under the bus with him? Personal vendetta? Hoyer is a backup. There is room in the NFL for guys like that. Unlike ... Johnny?

Zombo

I've watched a lot of bad QBs, but those 2 games really stood out to me as the worst I've seen, right alongside several DA games.

John is a capable QB, certainly gifted enough to be a backup, but he's a dickhead.

[Zombo]

10 minutes ago, Mike H said:

I've watched a lot of bad QBs, but those 2 games really stood out to me as the worst I've seen, right alongside several DA games.

John is a capable QB, certainly gifted enough to be a backup, but he's a dickhead.

Those were indeed doosies.

As far as worst ever games that I have seen a QB play a couple that stand out are Warren Moon going into the Dawgpound in 1986: 5-23 68 yards o TD 4 Ints and Jeff Garcia, who posted a zero QB rating for one of his first starts for us against Dallas.

I remember Scott Mitchell actually winning a game for the Bengals without completing a pass, Corey Dillon rushed for 270 or something.

I didn't see the Buffalo rookie throw 5 Ints in one half last year, but the "Highlights" were outstanding.

Zombo

[Dutch Oven]

5 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Those were indeed doosies.

As far as worst ever games that I have seen a QB play a couple that stand out are Warren Moon going into the Dawgpound in 1986: 5-23 68 yards o TD 4 Ints and Jeff Garcia, who posted a zero QB rating for one of his first starts for us against Dallas.

I remember Scott Mitchell actually winning a game for the Bengals without completing a pass, Corey Dillon rushed for 270 or something.

I didn't see the Buffalo rookie throw 5 Ints in one half last year, but the "Highlights" were outstanding.

Zombo

Didn't the Browns beat the Bills under Mangini with either Anderson or Quinn passing for 50 yards or something ridiculous like that?

[Zombo]

24 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Didn't the Browns beat the Bills under Mangini with either Anderson or Quinn passing for 50 yards or something ridiculous like that?

I remember a game we won in the snow, 8-0, Anderson steered us in to FG range for Phil Dawson to set up his big kicks.

Z

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, Mike H said:

And Hi.

What up, Mike! Who is your QB in this draft class?

10 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I saw a post game interview with JM this past Sat. and he talked very emotionally about getting a normal life after the craziness that he was when with Cleveland. He was happy just to be on the field again and more than willing to play in Canada for a couple of years if no one in the NFL wanted to take a chance with him again. He talked about his marriage and changing into someone who liked a real "homebody" life with her. It was the most "authentic" interview I have ever seen him give. I give him a better than 50% chance of doing well in the CFL and making it back to the NFL in 2-3 years. I didn't see the immature "kid" we saw come to Cleveland in that interview. But I did see a love of the game back in him. And a willingness to do it all differently that was real and not just some interviewing BS. The emotion was real and not "canned" for TV.

Fool me once, shame on Ag...

Fool me twice, shame on Ag...

 

So basically it's shame on Ag...

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

What up, Mike! Who is your QB in this draft class?

Fool me once, shame on Ag...

Fool me twice, shame on Ag...

 

So basically it's shame on Ag...

I may have some choice land for sale in Puerto Rico for you soon Tour. Ocean views since the trees are all down.

[The Gipper]

16 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I may have some choice land for sale in Puerto Rico for you soon Tour. Ocean views since the trees are all down.

He doesn't need to go to PR......the hurricane last year knocked down all the trees in Houston.

[TexasAg1969]

27 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

He doesn't need to go to PR......the hurricane last year knocked down all the trees in Houston.

But you can't see the ocean through the smog and mosquitoes in Houston.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

But you can't see the ocean through the smog and mosquitoes in Houston.

Quick trip to Galveston then.

[Tour2ma]

8 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Quick trip to Galveston then.

If by quick trip you mean a 5-hour drive...

I haven't lived in the Houston area since 2005.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

If by quick trip you mean a 5-hour drive...

I haven't lived in the Houston area since 2005.

I thought you were in a suburb.  How close to the Gulf are you?

[TexasAg1969]

19 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Quick trip to Galveston then.

Here's a quick trivia answer for you. Were you aware that the high water mark for the 1900 hurricane was actually lower in the Moody Mansion than Hurricane Ike in 2008?

EDIT: The Moodys actually bought it for about 1/5 it's value after the 1900 chased other bidders away. It was built in 1895.

[hoorta]

39 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

He doesn't need to go to PR......the hurricane last year knocked down all the trees in Houston.

Actually Gip, most of the trees survived quite well, confirmed by my visit, mostly an unrelenting rain event. Tour can confirm this.  Surprisingly little visible storm damage short of several dumpsters I saw in driveways full of destroyed drywall. Only impressive thing I eventually noticed was debris lodged in the bridge over the Buffalo Bayou. For those who haven't been-   the part I saw is around a 20 foot wide creek in a 20+ foot deep and 100 foot wide ravine. The water came up over the bridge.  

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's a quick trivia answer for you. Were you aware that the high water mark for the 1900 hurricane was actually lower in the Moody Mansion than Hurricane Ike in 2008?

Is this Jeopardy?  If that is the answer....what is the question?

[TexasAg1969]

2 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Actually Gip, most of the trees survived quite well, confirmed by my visit, mostly an unrelenting rain event. Tour can confirm this.  Surprisingly little visible storm damage short of several dumpsters I saw in driveways full of destroyed drywall. Only impressive thing I eventually noticed was debris lodged in the bridge over the Buffalo Bayou. For those who haven't been-   the part I saw is around a 20 foot wide creek in a 20+ foot deep and 100 foot wide ravine. The water came up over the bridge.  

Both homes I grew up in on the poor (low) side of Beaumont went under with Harvey's flooding there. I saw some people on TV rescued by helicopter about 4 blocks  from the first home I lived in there.

[The Gipper]

3 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Actually Gip, most of the trees survived quite well, confirmed by my visit, mostly an unrelenting rain event. Tour can confirm this.  Surprisingly little visible storm damage short of several dumpsters I saw in driveways full of destroyed drywall. Only impressive thing I eventually noticed was debris lodged in the bridge over the Buffalo Bayou. For those who haven't been-   the part I saw is around a 20 foot wide creek in a 20+ foot deep and 100 foot wide ravine. The water came up over the bridge.  

And yet, again, the Browns play 3 road games in Hurricane Country in the fall.....Tampa, New Orleans, Houston.

How much does one want to bet that at least one of these game will be threatened by a Hurricane?  As noted elsewhere, I may like to make the trip to NOLA...if the timing and weather are right. 

[mjp28]

4 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here's a quick trivia answer for you. Were you aware that the high water mark for the 1900 hurricane was actually lower in the Moody Mansion than Hurricane Ike in 2008?

EDIT: The Moodys actually bought it for about 1/5 it's value after the 1900 chased other bidders away. It was built in 1895.

Wow, I did spend time in Galveston, Houston, Baytown, Texas City area in 1978 for a job interview, saw some of that.....and turned down the job.

Haven't been back to Texas since the 1980s,. (And I dislike the heat.)

[TexasAg1969]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

And yet, again, the Browns play 3 road games in Hurricane Country in the fall.....Tampa, New Orleans, Houston.

How much does one want to bet that at least one of these game will be threatened by a Hurricane?  As noted elsewhere, I may like to make the trip to NOLA...if the timing and weather are right. 

Odds are in your favor. I lived through Hurricane Audrey whose edge touched the area of Beaumont we lived in in 1957. Listening to large pine trees near us hit the ground really rattles your cage. Only Rita and Harvey have hit there since to the best of my knowledge.

[Mike H]

21 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

What up, Mike! Who is your QB in this draft class?

Fool me once, shame on Ag...

Fool me twice, shame on Ag...

 

So basically it's shame on Ag...

 

I'm not exactly sure yet. Hbu?

I'm in law school so haven't had the time to do a lot of work on them, but started a couple of days ago. I came into this weekend with Mayfield as my top guy, based purely on subjective impressions and from watching live games and limited tape.

Now, I like 3 of the 4 a good amount, and the 4th I'm kinda fading away from (Rosen). I haven't looked at Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph yet.

Right now I think It's between Darnold and Allen for me. These are some quick summaries of what I've wrote on each:

Darnold: Pretty solid all around. I'm still working on him (only watched one game vs UCLA), but my first impression is excellent. Arm good enough. Not sure about his mechanics. I wrote down to look closer into them.

-Baker: His offensive scheme scares me. Although, he did complete an incredibly high amount of passes, he wasn't challenged most of the time. Big 12 concepts are a joke, but he did execute at such a high level you can't ignore it. His attitude is a positive to me - I think his guys will buy-in and he'll be a good leader (sans crotch grab, maybe a little too firey for even my liking).

-Rosen: I just don't see it. I like him, but I'm not there yet. May need to watch more. I'm annoyed that people want you to see Goff when you watch Rosen, but I don't. I liked Wentz over Goff, and I like Goff miles better than Rosen. His line was rough at times, but he also shrinks in high-leverage spots, namely third downs, and doesn't read the field as well as you'd think with someone touted as being as well-rounded of a prospect as he is. He's also basically immobile. He offers nothing as far as mobility is concerned. That's not a deal-breaker, but when you aren't seeing the field well AND can't scramble to buy yourself time, it's an issue.

-Allen: Accuracy concerns seem to be overblown. I don't see the guy the stats depict; there are countless drops in high leverage situations, and dropped TDs. Play-recognition and ability to read defenses is my issue with him, especially seeing his misread on that basic play that Orlovsky highlighted on Twitter yesterday). Other than that, he is an incredible, phenom prospect with everything you want, and everything you cannot teach. Reminds me a lot of a Kap/Matt Stafford hybrid. Yes I realize this may not be a great thing.