Ohio ballot issue 1 - vote no

[calfoxwc]

near as I can tell, I vote no.

https://ofbf.org/2018/10/18/farm-bureau-encourages-no-vote-state-issue-1/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=policy-no-issue-1-fall&utm_campaign=2018-10-26-bfen

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I'm voting yes.  I think the prisons are already way over crowded.  And locking up drug users serves no purpose.  Mandatory rehabilitation yes.  Durg dealers, Shmuck yea, send them to prisn.  The pushers also.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I'm voting yes.  I think the prisons are already way over crowded.  And locking up drug users serves no purpose.  Mandatory rehabilitation yes.  Durg dealers, Shmuck yea, send them to prisn.  The pushers also.

Over the course of 10 years i learned first hand much of it is a case by case basis.  

The court's should have deffered prison at their discretion, instead treatment etc etc.  Only problem is, with the many ( not an exaggeration) people that I seen sent to forced treatment,  I can only think of two that made a lasting change. 

Relapse rates, especially with heroine and meth, are incredibly high. No pun intended.  Meth is making a come back as well and there is no one way to attack this problem. 

Lost my brother in February from the path addiction sent him on.  The issue is so large now it's tiring thinking about it.    But it's a big combination of criminal, economical and mental elements that are leading people to destroy themselves. 

Some just might be destined for it.  I've asked myself that question a hundred times.  Others I truly believe can be helped. 

Problem is, I really don't see any meaningful, widespread change being affected any time soon. 

[Canton Dawg]

Issue 1 has some merits, key word “some”.

I was listening to a drug court judge talk about this last week.

His major concern was he couldn’t threaten jail time to some repeat offenders.

He said without the ability to send them to jail, the drug court wouldn’t have any teeth.

[calfoxwc]

16 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Over the course of 10 years i learned first hand much of it is a case by case basis.  

The court's should have deffered prison at their discretion, instead treatment etc etc.  Only problem is, with the many ( not an exaggeration) people that I seen sent to forced treatment,  I can only think of two that made a lasting change. 

Relapse rates, especially with heroine and met, are incredibly high. No pun intended.  Meth is making a come back as well and there is no one way to attack this problem. 

Lost my brother in February from the path addiction sent him on.  The issue is so large now it's tiring thinking about it.    But it's a big combination of criminal, economical and mental elements that are leading people to destroy themselves. 

Some just might be destined for it.  I've asked myself that question a hundred times.  Others I truly believe can be helped. 

Problem is, I really don't see any meaningful, widespread change being affected any time soon. 

we have a friend with kids - the husband went off the wagon, got in drug trouble, prison, rehab. Months later, got his life back on track.

Then relapsed, going for help again.

   I don't understand it, I know most of us don't. I wonder how many just users go to jail/prison. I would think it's more the addicted are DUI, etc and commit a serious crime, like dealing etc. Not my area of expertise.

[The Cysko Kid]

Too late I already voted yes and I stick by it. 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

Issue 1 has some merits, key word “some”.

I was listening to a drug court judge talk about this last week.

His major concern was he couldn’t threaten jail time to some repeat offenders.

He said without the ability to send them to jail, the drug court wouldn’t have any teeth.

 

But that is where 95%+ end up... jail.   I guess this is where I'm all about decriminalization.   But I've also seen what these drugs bring with it. So I'm hesitant in a way.  It's not like weed or some Sheet.   If anyone tells you heroine or meth is victim-less, then tell that to the families who lost ones in gang violence, or human trafficking, or things were stolen, property lost from civil forfeiture (a topic for another time)    These substances are the new plague, no hyperbole there.   And those that bring them into your communities, target and poison your kids, your friends etc etc - they're the real domestic terrorists you should be worried about.   I'm not concerned about ISIS like I am this.  I'm Shmucking putting an eye towards Pedro and Matt down the road that are holed up in their trap butt looking house with people rolling by 24/7 and cars missing in the neighborhood.  

I could go into great detail with everything I've seen and learned.     Part of me knows you can't completely rid yourself of the demon without some extreme measures.  And given what I've been through there is a small, but very loud part of me that agrees with those measures.      The other part of me realizes this has been a slow slope into madness and it will be twice the climb to get back out.    But the fight is something worth taking up in our schools, churches, businesses, community etc etc.    I'm just not entirely certain where the first place to start is.   

[Westside Steve]

Die Hard is right the prisons are overcrowded. Where is Old Sparky when you need him?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Over the course of 10 years i learned first hand much of it is a case by case basis.  

The court's should have deffered prison at their discretion, instead treatment etc etc.  Only problem is, with the many ( not an exaggeration) people that I seen sent to forced treatment,  I can only think of two that made a lasting change. 

Relapse rates, especially with heroine and meth, are incredibly high. No pun intended.  Meth is making a come back as well and there is no one way to attack this problem. 

Lost my brother in February from the path addiction sent him on.  The issue is so large now it's tiring thinking about it.    But it's a big combination of criminal, economical and mental elements that are leading people to destroy themselves. 

Some just might be destined for it.  I've asked myself that question a hundred times.  Others I truly believe can be helped. 

Problem is, I really don't see any meaningful, widespread change being affected any time soon. 

Sorry to hear about your brother.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

6 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Die Hard is right the prisons are overcrowded. Where is Old Sparky when you need him?

WSS

 

[calfoxwc]

Sorry you lost your Brother, Tiam. I had 3 uncles and a few cousins that were soaked alcoholics - addicted to the end.Families broke up,

reunions ended way, way back about the time I got out of the AF.

Back when we bought our land, and I had a guy goin to shoot "a deer next to my head" from the edge of our woods...

the sheriff back then told me he'd be out there, if it was his land, too - but never without being armed. I don't remember the drugs he referred to, but he said they dealt with addicts on drugs every couple of days. Said their addiction made them so desperate they were like rabid wild dangerous animals, and to get a ccw, he gives that advice to all the good people he meets.

  The only thing I really know about addiction, is that I really love good chocolate and rootbeer.

Not at the same time, though.

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Sorry to hear about your brother.

Thanks man.  It's just one of those things that kind of opens your eyes to what is around you.

 

15 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Sorry you lost your Brother, Tiam. I had 3 uncles and a few cousins that were soaked alcoholics - addicted to the end.Families broke up,

reunions ended way, way back about the time I got out of the AF.

Back when we bought our land, and I had a guy goin to shoot "a deer next to my head" from the edge of our woods...

the sheriff back then told me he'd be out there, if it was his land, too - but never without being armed. I don't remember the drugs he referred to, but he said they dealt with addicts on drugs every couple of days. Said their addiction made them so desperate they were like rabid wild dangerous animals, and to get a ccw, he gives that advice to all the good people he meets.

  The only thing I really know about addiction, is that I really love good chocolate and rootbeer.

Not at the same time, though.

Appreciate that.      I have alcoholism on both sides of my family.  2 uncles especially, funny since you mention uncles.  

That Sheriff is right, protect yourself at all times.    

 

I"ll tell you though, If you come across a meth head tweaked out and you truly feel your life is threatened, I hope you have something of a decent caliber and a few rounds to spare.   I Sheet you not, it feels like they have super human strength while high and pissed off.     Never try fighting one and avoid it unless you absolutely have no other choice.   I watched a kid that was 6'1 maybe a buck 45 tops make a fool of a guy 6'2 225lbs because he was Shmucked up on some crazy junk.      Like I said, it's a plague bubs.    Protect yourselves.  

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Believe me Tiam.  I've had so much sorrow in my life I'm amazed I'm still alive.  But I still kick until there is no more kicking inside.  Guess I'm just a mean ornery old mother f ucker

[MLD Woody]

Sorry for your lost Tia

[tiamat63]

14 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Believe me Tiam.  I've had so much sorrow in my life I'm amazed I'm still alive.  But I still kick until there is no more kicking inside.  Guess I'm just a mean ornery old mother f ucker

 

I'm slowly getting to your level.  Believe me, I get it.  

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Sorry for your lost Tia

 

At this point, man... it's everyone's loss.  I can all but guarantee everyone here knows at least one person in their family that is hooked.      It's a very real and dangerous issue that we need to talk about more.    On this board, we might loathe one another on certain issues but everybody here can see this topic is something that is destroying the very fabric of many peoples basic humanity and dragging thousands others with it.     Rational heads prevail on this subject and I'm glad to see everyone on this board can share their thoughts on this because we know just how Shmucked up things are out there right now.  

[Westside Steve]

Logic, I know it's not it West Virginia ballot issue but what do you think? You deal with pillbillies everyday.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

about ten years ago, while visiting and staying with an aunt after a funeral in WV,  my one cousin came and hung out with me

around the fire pit. Everyone else was inside, I was happy to tend the fire for a bit. She came out and wanted to tell me something.

    She said when we were kids, the only happy times in her young life, was when she stayed with me and my Mom and Dad. Her dad was one of the hard core alcoholics I mentioned. She said she often prayed that she could come live with us, but it never happened. She didn't want to leave her Mom....said that the time they lived in Cleveland with us in same apt building when we were little, I was her best friend. LOL she was a few years older...we both used to sing to Elvis presley 45's in my parent's TV repair shop. That's before I started school. She said she loved staying with us a lot at the shop. Later on, when they moved back to WV - she was so excited for us to come visit my aunt - she remembers the times we would take her with us camping on the Greenbriar River. She would have been the older awesome sister I never had.

     So many sad tragic stories of lives damaged 

   

[hammertime]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:30 PM, DieHardBrownsFan said:

I'm voting yes.  I think the prisons are already way over crowded.  And locking up drug users serves no purpose.  Mandatory rehabilitation yes.  Durg dealers, Shmuck yea, send them to prisn.  The pushers also.

This is a.tricky one

 

20 grams of certain drugs are a big NO.

This is a solid NO it still needs work.

Be careful how you read these bills...

[LogicIsForSquares]

On 10/27/2018 at 10:54 AM, Westside Steve said:

Logic, I know it's not it West Virginia ballot issue but what do you think? You deal with pillbillies everyday.

WSS

Heroin has completely eclipsed pills by this point. There are whole documentaries about my town (Huntington). I do understand trying to get them clean and not have to fill up prisons. But I also get just wanting to get them off of the streets and out of the fu-cking way. It is like the Walking Dead here. We joke that we must have a lot of urban explorers because you will see packs of 10+ at a time, all with backpacks on, all covered in scabs. Rehab is available to them but they just don't want to do it. 

They used to have clean needle programs that would basically accommodate the junkies. They distribute narcan like crazy and don't charge them with public intox or DUI. There is such a large volume of them overdosing and messing things up that the cops just narcan and release. They have to do needle cleanups before every holiday so kids don't go out to parades and accidentally step or handle one. The city finally got fed up after this ( https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Driver-overdoses-in-car-near-Ritter-Park-playground-crashes-into-light-pole-489542481.html ) happened. I live two blocks from this park and it is always busy. There was a big sand pit and swings right beside (within 10 feet) that pole she hit. 

So I get wanting to keep addicts out of prison because they aren't an obvious threat. But they overdose and do so much other stuff to feed the habit that I am not mad when a bunch of them are in a cage.

[LogicIsForSquares]

https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/I-64-West-shut-down-after-multi-vehicle-accident-418647233.html

This was a big story around here because the old guy who died from his injuries did a lot of community service and outreach work through his church. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Maybe the best solution for the heroin addicts is just to put them in a camp, with all the heroin they want.    Putting them in prison will stop them from using, maybe.  I've heard that they can get it smuggled in there also.  Plus, they will get out and use again.  So what the fu ck is the answer?  I don't know what is wrong with these people who even try this Sheet.

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

Heroin has completely eclipsed pills by this point. There are whole documentaries about my town (Huntington). I do understand trying to get them clean and not have to fill up prisons. But I also get just wanting to get them off of the streets and out of the fu-cking way. It is like the Walking Dead here. We joke that we must have a lot of urban explorers because you will see packs of 10+ at a time, all with backpacks on, all covered in scabs. Rehab is available to them but they just don't want to do it. 

They used to have clean needle programs that would basically accommodate the junkies. They distribute narcan like crazy and don't charge them with public intox or DUI. There is such a large volume of them overdosing and messing things up that the cops just narcan and release. They have to do needle cleanups before every holiday so kids don't go out to parades and accidentally step or handle one. The city finally got fed up after this ( https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Driver-overdoses-in-car-near-Ritter-Park-playground-crashes-into-light-pole-489542481.html ) happened. I live two blocks from this park and it is always busy. There was a big sand pit and swings right beside (within 10 feet) that pole she hit. 

So I get wanting to keep addicts out of prison because they aren't an obvious threat. But they overdose and do so much other stuff to feed the habit that I am not mad when a bunch of them are in a cage.

that is just so sad - and fearsome - surely there is a LOT of crime of addicts to get money to continually buy this garbage.

I guess 90% of it comes from mexico. the drug cartels would LOVE an open, unguarded border. I can't imagine a community with such addiction wouldn't just cause folks there to move away, if they could sell their house to a heroine addict. The addicts would eventually have nobody to steal from, or mug, or home invade.

[tiamat63]

6 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Maybe the best solution for the heroin addicts is just to put them in a camp, with all the heroin they want.    Putting them in prison will stop them from using, maybe.  I've heard that they can get it smuggled in there also.  Plus, they will get out and use again.  So what the fu ck is the answer?  I don't know what is wrong with these people who even try this Sheet.

Usually starts with something as simple as pills.   The oxy's I was given in high school when I had a concussion? ... bingo.  That's the trigger for most people.      And zombie is a good word for it.   It's like a Romero movie.  Once you're bit, your mind just never seems to be your own after that.  

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

that is just so sad - and fearsome - surely there is a LOT of crime of addicts to get money to continually buy this garbage.

I guess 90% of it comes from mexico. the drug cartels would LOVE an open, unguarded border. I can't imagine a community with such addiction wouldn't just cause folks there to move away, if they could sell their house to a heroine addict. The addicts would eventually have nobody to steal from, or mug, or home invade.

Nah, man.  This Sheet is barely even heroin.  It's just called that but really it isn't anything resembling classic, pure heroin.  

Sadly addicts target family first.   And being that it's family and they're vulnerable it becomes a parasitic relationship.  Parents are naturally compassionate and wanting to help while the junky just want to steal for their next fix.   

I made mention of my brother, but I'll be honest - the real heartbreak was seeing my parents faces.   This Sheet aged them another 10 years seemingly overnight.   

 

Ultimately I think this is a problem tackled in the following ways 

- shut down the pill mill doctors

- get serious about opening up treatment for individuals seeking it and outreach to families affected by it who could give you information on those you could target for treatment.

- stop the flow of these substances BEFORE they hit your communities for extended time.   A good amount of the intel given to the authorities they sit on for a while because the busts help to fund their operations.   That's the simple truth, I've seen it with my own eyes.     I could go to my hometown, take a 15 minute drive and easily point out half a dozen houses dealers work out of and I would be right about every single one of them.    The evidence is there provided we have the man power to handle it.  

- Charges can increase in capacity such as declaring dealers and suppliers as domestic terrorists.   Not the people who are hooked and just can't think straight - I mean the dudes that aren't dumb enough to touch the Sheet but still push it.    Like I said earlier, you're more likely to lose your kid by that dude offering meth than some Shmuckin' Hajji bombing your home from Iraq.  Not to mention the other dark things that tag along with these drugs I referenced before.  

- Get into your high schools early and often.  Shmuck the abstinence speeches, this is what you need to focus on.

- Keep and eye on the farmers and rural veterinarians having their Sheet broken into and things stolen to make meth and or heroin.     Often times they'll have a good idea who is hitting their stuff.

- Offer repeat OD'ers a DNR if they so choose.    Sure, sounds inhuman but I've had a couple people tell me they simply wish they were never brought back. 

- Stay vigilant in your own communities.  Look for signs of theft, violence, drug use, human trafficking, etc etc.

 

These are the things that would help day to day and overtime.    Now other factors such as underlying mental health issues and economic problems are a much larger scale beyond my "pay grade", so to speak.