We Need To Keep Lamar Jackson In The Pocket

[Dutch Oven]

6 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Teams that play us practice for "almost get a sack" Garrett. They must get the ball out within 2.5 seconds or less. They all have a short passing gameplan and prefer it because of what can happen if they try going with longer timed patterns too often. Add Josh Allen of Ky. to the mix and this can get to be really fun to see who gets there first. Ogunjobi is getting better and better at it the more games he gets under his belt.

Josh Allen, OLB of Kentucky is definitely an interesting prospect to imagine plugging into our defense. 

We might have played ourselves out of being able to draft him, though. 

 

[hoorta]

19 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Lamar can pass much better than Tebow could...

Run better too

Yeah, Ghoolie's Black Tarkenton is a better fit. Tebow was a linebacker who thought he was a quarterback.

[MLD Woody]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Well, my term Black Tarkenton is not a racist slur, nor a hidden thought of what I think of black QBs. I loved Moon and McNair, and am impressed with Mahomes and Sam Arnold.

The term replies to a black kid who had his speed exploited in youth football, and was never taught like white kids are, to pass first.

Sam Arnold?

[SD_Tom]

He's not helpless from the pocket.  Should be a great game. 

Interesting stat.  When Lamar won the Heisman,  he had more rushing yards and passing yards in that season than Vick had his entire college career combined. 

 

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Well, my term Black Tarkenton is not a racist slur, nor a hidden thought of what I think of black QBs. I loved Moon and McNair, and am impressed with Mahomes and Sam Arnold.

The term replies to a black kid who had his speed exploited in youth football, and was never taught like white kids are, to pass first.

A.  Sam (D)Arnold is white.

B. Who are some White Byron Leftwiches.....he was taught to pass first, as he had no speed whatsoever.

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

A.  Sam (D)Arnold is white.

B. Who are some White Byron Leftwiches.....he was taught to pass first, as he had no speed whatsoever.

B: Start with Bernie Kosar.    

[nickers]

27 minutes ago, hoorta said:

B: Start with Bernie Kosar.    

Kosars release was much better than Byron Leftwich.. Bernie could sling it from anywhere on the dial so to speak.. overhand/underhand/ sidearm, etc... and with deadly accuracy... Leftwich could hit the broad side of a garage...

[Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

A.  Sam (D)Arnold is white.

B. Who are some White Byron Leftwiches.....he was taught to pass first, as he had no speed whatsoever.

Gips, my old pal, as you and I head into a New Year, I am nudging you to get a little better grip on my tongue-in-cheek humor. Calling Sam D'Arnold black was a joke about color not meaning crap as far as a man's value. black, white, we are all loved equally by the one who counts.

I don't think that ethnicity lends any extra probability or unlikelihood of becoming a great or a lousy QB. Your example of Leftwich expands this conversation, for you are correct, he is not a run-first, (black Tarkenton) are I lament. I do maintain that at some early level, whether it is peepee or High School, coaches are prone to harvesting black kids who are fleet of foot and who shoe some ball-throwing ability and creating the running QB that we see so much now in college.

I believe that Kordell Stewart was the pioneered role-model for this type of QB. Clearly, the imagined upsides are mind-boggling. The true cyborg QB who can throw 80 yards or run 80 yards makes heads spin. The ratio of run first QBs is inarguably heavily weighted in the ration of Blacks versus Whites. Let's interject Leftwich here. As you pointed out, he is not really fleet of foot, but IS a pocket passer. But as far as blacks go, you must admit, he is not the norm. However, white QBs who ARE pocket passers and not fleet of foot are pretty common.

So what does that mean? That all blacks are fast and inaccurate passers, and whites are slow and more accurate? Nope. I believe it means coaches, the system, does not assess black QBs the same as they do whites. I think it is racism, or at least a  different light bulb that goes off in a coaches head when he sees a Kordell Stewart type kid. 

I honestly believe that the slow-footed, black Kosar type kid, the Leftwich type black player seldom gets picked to play QB.   

So, my phrase, "Black Tarkenton" strike some as being racist, it is not, and I am not. I do however think that run-first QBs are ALL shit QBs. Not one of them has ever held up through the playoffs and won a SB. Nor do I believe will one ever. The fact that run-first QBs seem to all be black doesn't make me racist. I hate the run-first QB because of the implications and shortcomings. It isn't my fault that these primarily tend to be blacks. Also FWIW, I despised Tarkenton and think he is the model of what a QB should NOT be. The fucking guy was in 4 Superbowls, and he got his ass kicked in all 4. Just like the Black Tarkentons, he put up all kinds of numbers, and created excitement. But, when it counted, like all run-first QBs, he turned to shit.

  

 

[ATOM]

game plan ? 

first:make the them play from behind I all ways have agreed to defer but not this sunday I believe kitchens should have a well thought out game plan for are first series

second : do are best to try to keep them in third and long cause lamar is not an accurate passer and I believe we can force him into turning the ball over

final score Browns 13 them 10

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

Gips, my old pal, as you and I head into a New Year, I am nudging you to get a little better grip on my tongue-in-cheek humor. Calling Sam D'Arnold black was a joke about color not meaning crap as far as a man's value. black, white, we are all loved equally by the one who counts.

So, my phrase, "Black Tarkenton" strike some as being racist, it is not, and I am not. I do however think that run-first QBs are ALL shit QBs. Not one of them has ever held up through the playoffs and won a SB. Nor do I believe will one ever. The fact that run-first QBs seem to all be black doesn't make me racist. I hate the run-first QB because of the implications and shortcomings. It isn't my fault that these primarily tend to be blacks. Also FWIW, I despised Tarkenton and think he is the model of what a QB should NOT be. The fucking guy was in 4 Superbowls, and he got his ass kicked in all 4. Just like the Black Tarkentons, he put up all kinds of numbers, and created excitement. But, when it counted, like all run-first QBs, he turned to shit. 

 

It's just the way it is. The black guys in general are faster. I don't remember a white guy ever running in the 100 in the Olympics. If one has, it's mighty rare.  

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[dawg2fan]

23 hours ago, The Gipper said:

That would be fresh.  So, what would that make it:    Ratrapers  9-7;  Spermsuckers  8-7-1;  Browns 8-7-1; (B)itchy Pussies 7-9.  

Best case Scenario Gip, that would be my first choice.  However if the Bengals lose the Steelers, I'd almost want to lose to the Ravens (but make the score close).  Like I've said many times, my wife is a Steelers' fan and I've been living with this for many years.  Any to keep the Steelers out of the playoffs and I'm in. 

[nickers]

2 minutes ago, dawg2fan said:

Best case Scenario Gip, that would be my first choice.  However if the Bengals lose the Steelers, I'd almost want to lose to the Ravens (but make the score close).  Like I've said many times, my wife is a Steelers' fan and I've been living with this for many years.  Any to keep the Steelers out of the playoffs and I'm in. 

" You play to win the mother fucking game"... Get out of here with lets lose because of the steelers playoff chance.. That loser mentality thinking...

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Gips, my old pal, as you and I head into a New Year, I am nudging you to get a little better grip on my tongue-in-cheek humor. Calling Sam D'Arnold black was a joke about color not meaning crap as far as a man's value. black, white, we are all loved equally by the one who counts.

I don't think that ethnicity lends any extra probability or unlikelihood of becoming a great or a lousy QB. Your example of Leftwich expands this conversation, for you are correct, he is not a run-first, (black Tarkenton) are I lament. I do maintain that at some early level, whether it is peepee or High School, coaches are prone to harvesting black kids who are fleet of foot and who shoe some ball-throwing ability and creating the running QB that we see so much now in college.

I believe that Kordell Stewart was the pioneered role-model for this type of QB. Clearly, the imagined upsides are mind-boggling. The true cyborg QB who can throw 80 yards or run 80 yards makes heads spin. The ratio of run first QBs is inarguably heavily weighted in the ration of Blacks versus Whites. Let's interject Leftwich here. As you pointed out, he is not really fleet of foot, but IS a pocket passer. But as far as blacks go, you must admit, he is not the norm. However, white QBs who ARE pocket passers and not fleet of foot are pretty common.

So what does that mean? That all blacks are fast and inaccurate passers, and whites are slow and more accurate? Nope. I believe it means coaches, the system, does not assess black QBs the same as they do whites. I think it is racism, or at least a  different light bulb that goes off in a coaches head when he sees a Kordell Stewart type kid. 

I honestly believe that the slow-footed, black Kosar type kid, the Leftwich type black player seldom gets picked to play QB.   

So, my phrase, "Black Tarkenton" strike some as being racist, it is not, and I am not. I do however think that run-first QBs are ALL shit QBs. Not one of them has ever held up through the playoffs and won a SB. Nor do I believe will one ever. The fact that run-first QBs seem to all be black doesn't make me racist. I hate the run-first QB because of the implications and shortcomings. It isn't my fault that these primarily tend to be blacks. Also FWIW, I despised Tarkenton and think he is the model of what a QB should NOT be. The fucking guy was in 4 Superbowls, and he got his ass kicked in all 4. Just like the Black Tarkentons, he put up all kinds of numbers, and created excitement. But, when it counted, like all run-first QBs, he turned to shit.

  

 

I would say that Randall Cunningham came around much earlier than Kordell Stewart. And don't forget Doug Williams, who was mobile early in his career,, but not so much later when he played with the Redskins.

Oh...and don't forget Fritz Pollard:  Black QB, Akron Pros,  1920 NFL Champions.   

[The Gipper]

36 minutes ago, hoorta said:

It's just the way it is. The black guys in general are faster. I don't remember a white guy ever running in the 100 in the Olympics. If one has, it's mighty rare.  

Valery Borzov, USSR 1972 Olympics, 100 meter  Winner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KuKlABm0k

Alan Wells, Great Britain,  1980 Olympics 100 meter winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTEIM3BWbSw

Of course, given the times....these both may have been heavily steroid aided victories.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Valery Borzov, USSR 1972 Olympics, 100 meter  Winner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KuKlABm0k

Alan Wells, Great Britain,  1980 Olympics 100 meter winner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTEIM3BWbSw

Of course, given the times....these both may have been heavily steroid aided victories.

That's two in 45+ years (or 11 Olympics) = rare.  Break that down with # of competitors and I'd bet > 3%. 

[Gunz41]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Gips, my old pal, as you and I head into a New Year, I am nudging you to get a little better grip on my tongue-in-cheek humor. Calling Sam D'Arnold black was a joke about color not meaning crap as far as a man's value. black, white, we are all loved equally by the one who counts.

I don't think that ethnicity lends any extra probability or unlikelihood of becoming a great or a lousy QB. Your example of Leftwich expands this conversation, for you are correct, he is not a run-first, (black Tarkenton) are I lament. I do maintain that at some early level, whether it is peepee or High School, coaches are prone to harvesting black kids who are fleet of foot and who shoe some ball-throwing ability and creating the running QB that we see so much now in college.

I believe that Kordell Stewart was the pioneered role-model for this type of QB. Clearly, the imagined upsides are mind-boggling. The true cyborg QB who can throw 80 yards or run 80 yards makes heads spin. The ratio of run first QBs is inarguably heavily weighted in the ration of Blacks versus Whites. Let's interject Leftwich here. As you pointed out, he is not really fleet of foot, but IS a pocket passer. But as far as blacks go, you must admit, he is not the norm. However, white QBs who ARE pocket passers and not fleet of foot are pretty common.

So what does that mean? That all blacks are fast and inaccurate passers, and whites are slow and more accurate? Nope. I believe it means coaches, the system, does not assess black QBs the same as they do whites. I think it is racism, or at least a  different light bulb that goes off in a coaches head when he sees a Kordell Stewart type kid. 

I honestly believe that the slow-footed, black Kosar type kid, the Leftwich type black player seldom gets picked to play QB.   

So, my phrase, "Black Tarkenton" strike some as being racist, it is not, and I am not. I do however think that run-first QBs are ALL shit QBs. Not one of them has ever held up through the playoffs and won a SB. Nor do I believe will one ever. The fact that run-first QBs seem to all be black doesn't make me racist. I hate the run-first QB because of the implications and shortcomings. It isn't my fault that these primarily tend to be blacks. Also FWIW, I despised Tarkenton and think he is the model of what a QB should NOT be. The fucking guy was in 4 Superbowls, and he got his ass kicked in all 4. Just like the Black Tarkentons, he put up all kinds of numbers, and created excitement. But, when it counted, like all run-first QBs, he turned to shit.

  

 

A bit of an unfair argument for Tarkenton. Until he got TD, Elway had gone to a bunch of SB and got beat bad. All that shows is it takes a team, not just an individual great QB.

As for coaches turning kids into that, the sad fact of the matter is that is what is happening, and not just black kids. A lot of coaches now are running a spread, without any real concepts behind it, and taking their best athlete and making him the QB, whether that is where he should be or not. I don't think we should categorize that as just black kids, as sure that happens a lot, but there are certainly more country/rural area schools in the nation than city. 

What is going to happen in the future is you will see less and less pocket passes, as a lot of coaches now think the best athlete being QB is more conducive to winning, not thinking about the future of these kids

[Orion]

This will be a difficult match-up for us.

Final game.  Sad to see our season end.  When was the last time we could say that?

[Ghoolie]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

A bit of an unfair argument for Tarkenton. Until he got TD, Elway had gone to a bunch of SB and got beat bad. All that shows is it takes a team, not just an individual great QB.

As for coaches turning kids into that, the sad fact of the matter is that is what is happening, and not just black kids. A lot of coaches now are running a spread, without any real concepts behind it, and taking their best athlete and making him the QB, whether that is where he should be or not. I don't think we should categorize that as just black kids, as sure that happens a lot, but there are certainly more country/rural area schools in the nation than city. 

What is going to happen in the future is you will see less and less pocket passes, as a lot of coaches now think the best athlete being QB is more conducive to winning, not thinking about the future of these kids

My only exception to your clarification of having a " team" and comparing to Elway. Elway never had much of a team, Tarkenton did. Carl Eller, Jim Marshall, Alan Page, Gene Washington, Chuck Foreman, Amad Rashad, Mick TInglehoff, Ed White,  Sammy White. Fran had players around him. Didn't he also lose 6 NFL Championship games? What I remember about him is thatin big games, he really, really sucked badly. In Superbowl 9, he was so cockeyed it wasn't funny. Remember, his entire career he had the Purple People Eater defense. They held Bradshaw to nothing, and Fran scored even less.

I think putting him in the HOF is fucking ridiculous. He accumulated a shitload of stats that ended in a bunch of nothing for his team. I just don't have any respect for him as a QB. I think he was a pony pile of shit.

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

That's two in 45+ years (or 11 Olympics) = rare.  Break that down with # of competitors and I'd bet > 3%. 

Look at those videos half the guys who are running are white. But again I don’t know whether that would be the case today or not. 

[Gunz41]

21 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

My only exception to your clarification of having a " team" and comparing to Elway. Elway never had much of a team, Tarkenton did. Carl Eller, Jim Marshall, Alan Page, Gene Washington, Chuck Foreman, Amad Rashad, Mick TInglehoff, Ed White,  Sammy White. Fran had players around him. Didn't he also lose 6 NFL Championship games? What I remember about him is thatin big games, he really, really sucked badly. In Superbowl 9, he was so cockeyed it wasn't funny. Remember, his entire career he had the Purple People Eater defense. They held Bradshaw to nothing, and Fran scored even less.

I think putting him in the HOF is fucking ridiculous. He accumulated a shitload of stats that ended in a bunch of nothing for his team. I just don't have any respect for him as a QB. I think he was a pony pile of shit.

 

My only point was just saying someone lost a lot doesn't really tell the story, as others have done the same thing, or even take it a step further, I'm sure there are guys you would consider way better and was beating them to get there to lose

[flyingfooldoug]

57 minutes ago, Orion said:

This will be a difficult match-up for us.

Final game.  Sad to see our season end.  When was the last time we could say that?

But at least it’ll be a fun offseason.  Then on to the playoffs 

[Orion]

One thing that I DON'T want to see is Jackson have some success with his legs and then Baker starts trying to show that he can do that too.  He's NOT big and fast.  He has to stay in his own game.  Move into space when you have to but with your eyes downfield.  Let Chubb run with the ball.

[Ghoolie]

Break his legs. Make the dumb bastard pass and Flacco the Fucko will be playing the second half. Browns 12, 723 - Ravens 3

[Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

My only point was just saying someone lost a lot doesn't really tell the story, as others have done the same thing, or even take it a step further, I'm sure there are guys you would consider way better and was beating them to get there to lose

I agree. Marino couldn't even get back to a second SB let alone win. He was pretty good. I just never liked Tarkenton. He actually had chances to win it all. Honestly, a lot of the Vikes failure as a team, in my humble opinion came at his hands and his stupid frantic scrambling.

 

[Ghoolie]

2 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

My only point was just saying someone lost a lot doesn't really tell the story, as others have done the same thing, or even take it a step further, I'm sure there are guys you would consider way better and was beating them to get there to lose

Here is an article I agree with. Chokers. They have Tarkenton as the #6 all-time choker. Kelly, Fouts and Marino. Tarkenton really did single-handedly lose 4 SBs. He had so many chances in those games to make a play.

Stinkenhiemer #1 NFL choker? Absolutely, Man, I hate that sonofabitch. 

[jiggins7919]

16 hours ago, hoorta said:

It's just the way it is. The black guys in general are faster. I don't remember a white guy ever running in the 100 in the Olympics. If one has, it's mighty rare.  

Oh, plenty RAN the 100, but I don't think any have WON in the past 100 years. Bwahaha. 

Before the draft, I had mixed opinions regarding Lamar Jackson. I wasn't sure if he would be able to make it as a QB, but like virtually everybody, I thought that he'd be dangerous in the right system. What's the right system? A dangerous, suffocating defense, a strong running game, and a coordinator smart enough to adapt his offense to Lamar and his skill set. Has Baltimore found this magical combination? Ehhhh....I'm not sure. Why?

Because San Francisco thought they discovered this magical union of intimidating defense, stalwart running game, and uber fast QB that would punish defense with both his arm and legs with Kaepernick. And for a while they did. Don't forget how nasty that 49's team was, now. There are a few differences between these two teams, but there are more similarities in my crazy mind. 

One of the differences is that the world hasn't EVER seen a QB that can run like Lamar Jackson. Want to compare him to Michael Vick? Good luck. In college, Vick passed for 3300 yards and rushed for 1300 yards in 2 seasons. Conversely, Lamar passed for over 9000 yards and rushed for over 4000 yards in 3 seasons. Vick left after his sophomore season I think, so let's compare each player's second year starting:

Vick - 1234 yards passing with 8 TDs, 700 yards rushing with 8 TDs. 10 games played. 

Lamar - 3500 yards passing with 30 TDs, 1571 rushing yards with 21 TDs. 13 games played. 

So no, comparing Lamar to Vick isn't the best option. Defenses are having trouble with the Ravens' offense because we haven't seen someone like Lamar. The GOOD news for us is we now have even more tape, and Gregg has proven himself adept at scheming against talented rushers. I remember some people said Lamar wasn't built for the pros because he was slightly built. Pleeeeeease. For one thing, you almost never get to actually hit him. He slithers around defenders and prances out of bounds, so taking big hits is generally off the menu.

This game will come down to one thing:  Stopping the Ravens' PASSING attack. They're GOING to get their yards on the ground, that's just how it is, but we absolutely need to confuse him on obvious passing downs, and when Lamar puts the ball in jeopardy, we HAVE to get it. No more dropped easy interceptions. We also need a little bit of luck. We need Lamar to miss a couple of his deep throws. Lamar will throw 4 awful passes in a row, but then he'll drop a 40 yard TD pass in the bucket. We need him to miss on the bucket throws, because with their play-action, he's GOING to have guys open deep. 

Lastly, we HAVE to find a way to get an early lead on them. Make Lamar have to pass more than he wants and then step on his throat with confusing coverages. You don't always wanna blitz this guy because he'll just run right by you, so hopefully Gregg will keep his finger somewhat off the "jailbreak blitz" button. 

It's going to be a lot of fun, and it's going to be our "playoff game". It will be ELECTRIC there, and Baker was only able to score 12 points against them last time, and I can almost promise you that won't be enough Sunday. This could be the first of many match-ups between Baker and Lamar, and we could be getting a glimpse at the future of the AFC North. I'm not ready to make my predictions just yet, but I know it's going to be our toughest game of the year (or right up there). Can't wait guys! 

[The Gipper]

17 hours ago, hoorta said:

That's two in 45+ years (or 11 Olympics) = rare.  Break that down with # of competitors and I'd bet > 3%. 

Year	No. of men	Nations (men)	No. of women	Nations (women)	Total athletes	Total nations	Men's champion	Women's champion
1896[15]	15	8	N/A	N/A	15	8	Thomas Burke (USA)	N/A
1900[24]	20	9	N/A	N/A	20	9	Frank Jarvis (USA)	N/A
1904[25]	11	3	N/A	N/A	11	3	Archie Hahn (USA)	N/A
1908[26]	60	16	N/A	N/A	60	16	Reggie Walker (RSA)	N/A
1912[27]	70	22	N/A	N/A	70	22	Ralph Craig (USA)	N/A
1920[28]	61	23	N/A	N/A	61	23	Charlie Paddock (USA)	N/A
1924[29]	86	34	N/A	N/A	86	34	Harold Abrahams (GBR)	N/A
1928[30][31]	81	33	31	13	107	35	Percy Williams (CAN)	Betty Robinson (USA)
1932[32][33]	33	17	20	10	51	19	Eddie Tolan (USA)	Stanisława Walasiewicz (POL)
1936[34][35]	61	30	30	15	91	33	Jesse Owens (USA)	Helen Stephens (USA)
1948[36][37]	61	33	38	21	99	39	Harrison Dillard (USA)	Fanny Blankers-Koen (NED)
1952[38][39]	70	33	56	27	126	41	Lindy Remigino (USA)	Marjorie Jackson (AUS)
1956[40][41]	63	31	34	16	97	34	Bobby Morrow (USA)	Betty Cuthbert (AUS)
1960[9][42]	59	45	31	18	90	50	Armin Hary (EUA)	Wilma Rudolph (USA)
1964[10][43]	71	49	44	27	115	56	Bob Hayes (USA)	Wyomia Tyus (USA)
1968[44][45]	63	42	42	22	105	48	Jim Hines (USA)	Wyomia Tyus (USA)
1972[46][47]	83	55	47	33	130	68	Valeriy Borzov (URS)	Renate Stecher (GDR)
1976[48][49]	61	40	39	22	100	45	Hasely Crawford (TRI)	Annegret Richter (FRG)
1980[50][51]	63	41	40	25	103	46	Allan Wells (GBR)	Lyudmila Kondratyeva (URS)
1984[52][53]	80	59	46	33	126	68	Carl Lewis (USA)	Evelyn Ashford (USA)
1988[54][55]	100	69	64	42	164	85	Carl Lewis (USA)	Florence Griffith-Joyner (USA)
1992[56][57]	79	66	54	41	133	86	Linford Christie (GBR)	Gail Devers (USA)
1996[58][59]	104	75	56	38	160	89	Donovan Bailey (CAN)	Gail Devers (USA)
2000[60][61]	95	71	84	63	179	100	Maurice Greene (USA)	Vacated[62]
2004[63][64]	80	62	63	51	143	89	Justin Gatlin (USA)	Yulia Nestsiarenka (BLR)
2008[65][66]	78	64	85	69	163	96	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Shelly-Ann Fraser (JAM)
2012[67][68]	72	61	79	65	151	92	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce (JAM)
2016	84	57	80	56	164	82	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Elaine Thompson (JAM)

 

All of the early guys on this list were white.....in fact, I think Jesse Owens was the first black winner of the 100 meters. Sisnce 1960 only Hary, Borzov, and Wells were white.

[hoorta]

Jiggins, I'm not going to quote your post but I do have a few things to add. Jackson the best running QB ever in the NFL? Probably. Teams wanted him to do the WR drills at the Combine. So at least some GMs considered his quarterbacking skills suspect. 

Nickers noticed this, and I saw it on display from some Red Zone clips last night. Jackson has made a lot of his big runs going to his right. I'm sure Williams has duly noted this, and it will be a point of emphasis Sunday. 

So lets hope Baker lights it up early and forces the Ravens to play from behind.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Year	No. of men	Nations (men)	No. of women	Nations (women)	Total athletes	Total nations	Men's champion	Women's champion
1896[15]	15	8	N/A	N/A	15	8	Thomas Burke (USA)	N/A
1900[24]	20	9	N/A	N/A	20	9	Frank Jarvis (USA)	N/A
1904[25]	11	3	N/A	N/A	11	3	Archie Hahn (USA)	N/A
1908[26]	60	16	N/A	N/A	60	16	Reggie Walker (RSA)	N/A
1912[27]	70	22	N/A	N/A	70	22	Ralph Craig (USA)	N/A
1920[28]	61	23	N/A	N/A	61	23	Charlie Paddock (USA)	N/A
1924[29]	86	34	N/A	N/A	86	34	Harold Abrahams (GBR)	N/A
1928[30][31]	81	33	31	13	107	35	Percy Williams (CAN)	Betty Robinson (USA)
1932[32][33]	33	17	20	10	51	19	Eddie Tolan (USA)	Stanisława Walasiewicz (POL)
1936[34][35]	61	30	30	15	91	33	Jesse Owens (USA)	Helen Stephens (USA)
1948[36][37]	61	33	38	21	99	39	Harrison Dillard (USA)	Fanny Blankers-Koen (NED)
1952[38][39]	70	33	56	27	126	41	Lindy Remigino (USA)	Marjorie Jackson (AUS)
1956[40][41]	63	31	34	16	97	34	Bobby Morrow (USA)	Betty Cuthbert (AUS)
1960[9][42]	59	45	31	18	90	50	Armin Hary (EUA)	Wilma Rudolph (USA)
1964[10][43]	71	49	44	27	115	56	Bob Hayes (USA)	Wyomia Tyus (USA)
1968[44][45]	63	42	42	22	105	48	Jim Hines (USA)	Wyomia Tyus (USA)
1972[46][47]	83	55	47	33	130	68	Valeriy Borzov (URS)	Renate Stecher (GDR)
1976[48][49]	61	40	39	22	100	45	Hasely Crawford (TRI)	Annegret Richter (FRG)
1980[50][51]	63	41	40	25	103	46	Allan Wells (GBR)	Lyudmila Kondratyeva (URS)
1984[52][53]	80	59	46	33	126	68	Carl Lewis (USA)	Evelyn Ashford (USA)
1988[54][55]	100	69	64	42	164	85	Carl Lewis (USA)	Florence Griffith-Joyner (USA)
1992[56][57]	79	66	54	41	133	86	Linford Christie (GBR)	Gail Devers (USA)
1996[58][59]	104	75	56	38	160	89	Donovan Bailey (CAN)	Gail Devers (USA)
2000[60][61]	95	71	84	63	179	100	Maurice Greene (USA)	Vacated[62]
2004[63][64]	80	62	63	51	143	89	Justin Gatlin (USA)	Yulia Nestsiarenka (BLR)
2008[65][66]	78	64	85	69	163	96	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Shelly-Ann Fraser (JAM)
2012[67][68]	72	61	79	65	151	92	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Shelly-Ann Fraser-Pryce (JAM)
2016	84	57	80	56	164	82	Usain Bolt (JAM)	Elaine Thompson (JA

All of the early guys on this list were white.....in fact, I think Jesse Owens was the first black winner of the 100 meters. Sisnce 1960 only Hary, Borzov, and Wells were white.

Just stop with this argumentative crap Gipper, there was a thing called segregation, and even more recently apartheid in South Africa.  Those records (yeah, they're records, that's about it) from the 1800s and early 1900s are even less relevant to today's track athletes than the style of football the Canton Bulldogs were playing in the 1920s to today's NFL. What some white guy did 120 years ago in the Olympics, has sqatoosh bearing on the modern era, 

Color doesn't matter anymore, so see any white guys here?