We Need To Keep Lamar Jackson In The Pocket

[Ballsonchin]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

The shit that has been the Browns these last 20 years has been Modells legacy. You know. The guy that the NFL kicked out of the league for his incompetence 

If drunk ass Bob Irsay took the Colts team to Indy and left the team name, colors and history I would have said Good Riddance!  Bye! Good luck in Indy! The Baltimore COlts drafted John Elway but he refused to come to Baltimore because of the owner. He was a bad owner and a drunk. Nothing would have made me happier then today's Ravens would have been named the Colt's. If Cleveland would have won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years you wouldnt have a problem, but because they have basically sucked for the last 20 years it's Modell's legacy. If you had won the Super Bowl would it have been his legacy also? Hell no! Only the bad stuff is his legacy.....right?

[Ballsonchin]

When does it stop being Modell's legacy? When Cleveland finally wins something? 

[Gunz41]

14 hours ago, Ballsonchin said:

I didnt think I was talking trash, again I was stating facts. The Ravens on paper are better than the Browns. That isnt talking trash. But I also said that no one knows what will happen tomorrow....that's why we play the game. What did I say that wasn't a fact?  I dont think I was bragging, I was debating with another poster. To back up my position I used facts. Is that talking smack?

Well actually not everything you said was a fact, such as knock chip off shoulder. But it is talking trash, when you come on to say the things you did.

You also say "we" arent the same team you saw before, which makes it seem as if you think the Browns are. You cant have it both ways. They have played this year, with Cleveland winning. You use games that have happened recently to support your case, why didn't you bring that one up?

Again, if you wanted to bolster your team up, then do it. Dont say you aren't going to talk then do it. 

[Tour2ma]

On 12/29/2018 at 1:35 AM, Ghoolie said:

Tour, I would yield that there is a distinction between a running QB, and a scrambling QB, and that on overall examination it seems I have lumped them both together.

On one hand, of course, I know the difference. On the other hand, to a great extent, I believe, whether the QB is a running QB ( or Run First QB), or just a scrambler, honestly, the end result in performance is the exact same. The euphemism that "one cannot serve two masters" sheds light on the problem.

If there was some technology, an audible alarm, mounted in an earpiece that could somehow tell the QB when the outcome for the run was better than for the pass, the "Tarkenton" could be very reliable and effective. Alas, no such instrument exists and the balance between feet-fleeing, or hanging in to pass, under the pressure of live games, I believe, leaves this type of QB in a mental limbo, not really knowing which option to pursue.

I remember watching Tarkenton, and even Kordell Stewart. Many times you could see that before Tark ever has back in the pocket, his head was moving, looking for a running/scrambling outlet, before even setting to read his recievers.

I believe that from the time the ball is snapped, a"Tarkenton's mind is at work deciphering whether or not to pass. I think this dichotomy prevents this type of QB from ever really commanding the pass game. I believe this is why in very heated, pressure-filled games, the Tarkenton never has delivered and never will. 

I believe that if WIlliams throws different blitzes at Jackson all day long, Jackson will self destruct.

Let's see what happens.

Reasonable reply...

As I mentioned in another thread Tark played most of his career on teams that were lucky to be mediocre. He dd what he had to do to survive. In the last third of his career he was on a better team in his 2nd stint with the Vikings... and he ran less and had his best seasons as a passer.

[Ballsonchin]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

Well actually not everything you said was a fact, such as knock chip off shoulder. But it is talking trash, when you come on to say the things you did.

You also say "we" arent the same team you saw before, which makes it seem as if you think the Browns are. You cant have it both ways. They have played this year, with Cleveland winning. You use games that have happened recently to support your case, why didn't you bring that one up?

Again, if you wanted to bolster your team up, then do it. Dont say you aren't going to talk then do it. 

I didnt use that game because 1) there is a different QB playing for BOTH teams. WHy would I use that as an example of what might happen today? Of course I would use games that were played recently. Why wouldn't I?  Would you disagree that Mayfield is playing with a chip on his shoulder?  Bolstering my team is not talking smack, saying the Browns fans are delusional thinking they can win would be talking smack......I never said such a thing. Talking smack would be saying the Ravens were going to dominate the game with out using facts to support the argument. Its not bragging if you have facts that support your position. 

[nickers]

48 minutes ago, Ballsonchin said:

"Kicked out of the league"? Modell had nothing to do with who the expansion team owners were. He had nothing to do with the HC's, GM's or missed first round picks that these awful owners hired. Modell's legacy in the NFL are many....some great....some not so much. Modell made a business decision, you may not have liked it but for him and his family it was the best decision he could have made. Again I still don't get the angst. You kept the team, just not the owner. Besides a few years of football what have you missed?  One last thing, I will say it right here....right now. Mayfield is a way better QB than Jackson hands down. But the Ravens are a better team......today.

You must be Vagitrons long lost cousin...

[Ballsonchin]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Reasonable reply...

As I mentioned in another thread Tark played most of his career on teams that were lucky to be mediocre. He dd what he had to do to survive. In the last third of his career he was on a better team in his 2nd stint with the Vikings... and he ran less and had his best seasons as a passer.

https://thevikingage.com/2018/07/05/fran-tarkenton-rank-quarterback-vikings/

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Ballsonchin said:

"Kicked out of the league"? Modell had nothing to do with who the expansion team owners were. He had nothing to do with the HC's, GM's or missed first round picks that these awful owners hired. Modell's legacy in the NFL are many....some great....some not so much. Modell made a business decision, you may not have liked it but for him and his family it was the best decision he could have made. Again I still don't get the angst. You kept the team, just not the owner. Besides a few years of football what have you missed?  One last thing, I will say it right here....right now. Mayfield is a way better QB than Jackson hands down. But the Ravens are a better team......today.

Are you that ignorant of your own teams history. Modell was kicked out of the league. He was forced to sell his team by the NFL because of his financial ineptitude. And I am simply saying that the Browns losing is just a legacy of his whether he was responsible or not for every bit of it he was responsible for the initiation of it. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Ballsonchin said:

If drunk ass Bob Irsay took the Colts team to Indy and left the team name, colors and history I would have said Good Riddance!  Bye! Good luck in Indy! The Baltimore COlts drafted John Elway but he refused to come to Baltimore because of the owner. He was a bad owner and a drunk. Nothing would have made me happier then today's Ravens would have been named the Colt's. If Cleveland would have won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years you wouldnt have a problem, but because they have basically sucked for the last 20 years it's Modell's legacy. If you had won the Super Bowl would it have been his legacy also? Hell no! Only the bad stuff is his legacy.....right?

What the fuck does EarSay have to do with a goddamn thing. That’s your problem not ours talk to that shit on your own board not here. And yes that things are Modell’s legacy because everything he touched was bad. He had nothing to do with the ravens are being good that was all biscotti when he came in and took over. 

[The Gipper]

59 minutes ago, Ballsonchin said:

When does it stop being Modell's legacy? When Cleveland finally wins something? 

Yes because at that point then his stench  will have worn off

[flyingfooldoug]

1 hour ago, Ballsonchin said:

When does it stop being Modell's legacy? When Cleveland finally wins something? 

You don’t even know the meaning of a word and yet use it. Why? Shit for brains?

[flyingfooldoug]

The only legacy in Cleveland Browns history is Paul Brown

[Ballsonchin]

59 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

What the fuck does EarSay have to do with a goddamn thing. That’s your problem not ours talk to that shit on your own board not here. And yes that things are Modell’s legacy because everything he touched was bad. He had nothing to do with the ravens are being good that was all biscotti when he came in and took over. 

Hmmmmmmm Modell was the owner when they won their first Championship.....2000. As far as what point it was to bring up Irsay was to illustrate the difference/similarities there was between the Browns move and the Colts move. I guess it got lost in translation. 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The shit that has been the Browns these last 20 years has been Modells legacy. You know. The guy that the NFL kicked out of the league for his incompetence 

He's in denial Modell was going bankrupt, Fleet Bank was going to foreclose on him, and Biscotti threw him a life preserver to save face.  After Maryland and Baltimore gave him what was  it a $75 million  bribe to move? 

1 hour ago, Ballsonchin said:

"Kicked out of the league"? Modell had nothing to do with who the expansion team owners were. He had nothing to do with the HC's, GM's or missed first round picks that these awful owners hired. Modell's legacy in the NFL are many....some great....some not so much. Modell made a business decision, you may not have liked it but for him and his family it was the best decision he could have made. Again I still don't get the angst. You kept the team, just not the owner. Besides a few years of football what have you missed?  One last thing, I will say it right here....right now. Mayfield is a way better QB than Jackson hands down. But the Ravens are a better team......today.

The other owners- Modell included- thought the previous expansion teams, the Jaguars and Panthers got too good, too fast. So it was time to screw the most loyal fan base in the NFL over royally. Jags and Carolina had at least an entire year to get their act together, and got way better deals in the expansion draft. The Browns got months, and got crap. 

As far as Modell's "business decision"- BS he could have sold out to Al Lerner, then and there. Nope, wanted to have the glory of being an NFL owner, and pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice he wound up with neither.  

[Ballsonchin]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

He's in denial Modell was going bankrupt, Fleet Bank was going to foreclose on him, and Biscotti threw him a life preserver to save face.  After Maryland and Baltimore gave him what was  it a $75 million  bribe to move? 

The other owners- Modell included- thought the previous expansion teams, the Jaguars and Panthers got too good, too fast. So it was time to screw the most loyal fan base in the NFL over royally. Jags and Carolina had at least an entire year to get their act together, and got way better deals in the expansion draft. The Browns got months, and got crap. 

As far as Modell's "business decision"- BS he could have sold out to Al Lerner, then and there. Nope, wanted to have the glory of being an NFL owner, and pass the team down to his cigar chompin' kid. Nothing short of Divine Justice he wound up with neither.  

I guess, but Al Lerner turned out to be a turd as well. What do you mean the city of Cleveland got crap? They got a new stadium, the team name etc. etc. Actually Modell got the 75 mill. plus the suite money.....and other perks. Baltimore had a better deal on the table than Jacksonville or Carolina. They just had it in their minds Baltimore wasnt getting an expansion team.  Lerner was also involved in a lot of the negotiations and knew Modell was leaning towards Baltimore. He had his sights on Cleveland, he stabbed Cleveland in the back for his own gain. He didnt want to buy the club from Modell. Why should he? He could waltz in to CLeveland as a hero. But he was in the ear of Modell the entire time encouraging him to go to Baltimore. You guys have all that hatred for Modell you should have had the same for Lerner. Turned out Lerner was even more of a bum then Modell, he didnt care at all about Cleveland. He made a butt load of cash off of Cleveland and selling the Browns. Lerner was standing on the podium with Modell when he announced he was leaving Cleveland and going to Baltimore.

 

[Gunz41]

3 hours ago, Ballsonchin said:

I didnt use that game because 1) there is a different QB playing for BOTH teams. WHy would I use that as an example of what might happen today? Of course I would use games that were played recently. Why wouldn't I?  Would you disagree that Mayfield is playing with a chip on his shoulder?  Bolstering my team is not talking smack, saying the Browns fans are delusional thinking they can win would be talking smack......I never said such a thing. Talking smack would be saying the Ravens were going to dominate the game with out using facts to support the argument. Its not bragging if you have facts that support your position. 

Yes he is playing with one, and if you dont see how saying your team is going to knock it off is talking then I cant help you.

I also believe you were missing my point, no reason not to use any game to make your point, but when you only use them and state we are a different team, you imply that Cleveland isnt. 

And you lost to KC in OT, and beat Chargers, awesome. But there IS a head to head game that could be referenced, and it just didn't fit your agenda so you didn't use it.

Let's put it this way. If you had brought this same thing up, but Baltimore had won the PREVIOUS meeting 12-9, are you trying to say you wouldn't have used that game as more facts? Of course you would.

Maybe you didn't mean to come talk trash, I dont know what you are thinking. But even if inadvertently, you did. By saying a different team (like I said that comes across as saying you have improved and Cleveland hasnt) and saying you will knock chip off shoulder, that is CLEAR trash talk.

I'm sure you would have had people responding to you, but I wouldn't have been one, if all you did was trash talk. It's the fact you said you didn't come to talk trash and did that I responded 

[Ballsonchin]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

Yes he is playing with one, and if you dont see how saying your team is going to knock it off is talking then I cant help you.

I also believe you were missing my point, no reason not to use any game to make your point, but when you only use them and state we are a different team, you imply that Cleveland isnt. 

And you lost to KC in OT, and beat Chargers, awesome. But there IS a head to head game that could be referenced, and it just didn't fit your agenda so you didn't use it.

Let's put it this way. If you had brought this same thing up, but Baltimore had won the PREVIOUS meeting 12-9, are you trying to say you wouldn't have used that game as more facts? Of course you would.

Maybe you didn't mean to come talk trash, I dont know what you are thinking. But even if inadvertently, you did. By saying a different team (like I said that comes across as saying you have improved and Cleveland hasnt) and saying you will knock chip off shoulder, that is CLEAR trash talk.

I'm sure you would have had people responding to you, but I wouldn't have been one, if all you did was trash talk. It's the fact you said you didn't come to talk trash and did that I responded 

I guess, but I think your nit picking a bit. I said he was a beast, I said he was a better QB than Jackson. I did say he was playing with a chip on his shoulder.....and yes I said the Ravens were going to knock it off. But I just didnt look at it like it was talking smack. I can see how it looks that way. The Ravens defense is a quick physical defense, you shouldnt take it so personal. He isnt playing the lowly Bengals this week.

[Ghoolie]

Volatile conversation. Like it or not, the entire move had multiple villains. Modell was an a hole, The city of Cleveland, led by Mike White was ALSO a culprit. These assholes LOVED seeing Modell struggle and were cocky in thinking he would never move.

If you are any kind of leader, and you understand how important the Browns are, you stay involved with the team and the owner. The entire city of Cleveland, as well as people here hated Modell regardless of what he did. People never got over their hard-on for his firing Paul Brown, WHICH, was the right thing to do.

Yeah, Modell was a loose cannon, but Cleveland knew him for more than 5 decades. They dropped the ball, and what you have now, is people like Gip[er and Hoorta getting their panties in a bind because the Browns, are not a free-and-clear franchise, with a lot of people bringing up these side issues, which in my opinion are never going to die. Make no mistake, when the Browns finally win their 1st SB, Art Modell's name will be brought up by the announcers, writers, and commentators. 

[Gunz41]

1 hour ago, Ballsonchin said:

I guess, but I think your nit picking a bit. I said he was a beast, I said he was a better QB than Jackson. I did say he was playing with a chip on his shoulder.....and yes I said the Ravens were going to knock it off. But I just didnt look at it like it was talking smack. I can see how it looks that way. The Ravens defense is a quick physical defense, you shouldnt take it so personal. He isnt playing the lowly Bengals this week.

I didn't take it personal, but others can tell you I am one that doesnt like seeing from anyone hypocrisy. And that is reason I said something

Nothing you said about your team is wrong, just how I saw you saying 2 different things.

But you were wrong when you said didn't say anything about the 1st game because both teams had different QBs. Baker played the 1st game.

Because of my background coaching, I quite enjoy your offensive scheme now. Dont like the team running it, but do like the style 

[The Gipper]

7 hours ago, Ballsonchin said:

Hmmmmmmm Modell was the owner when they won their first Championship.....2000. As far as what point it was to bring up Irsay was to illustrate the difference/similarities there was between the Browns move and the Colts move. I guess it got lost in translation. 

Modell was El CID   Just a propped up corpse 

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, Ballsonchin said:

I guess, but Al Lerner turned out to be a turd as well. What do you mean the city of Cleveland got crap? They got a new stadium, the team name etc. etc. Actually Modell got the 75 mill. plus the suite money.....and other perks. Baltimore had a better deal on the table than Jacksonville or Carolina. They just had it in their minds Baltimore wasnt getting an expansion team.  Lerner was also involved in a lot of the negotiations and knew Modell was leaning towards Baltimore. He had his sights on Cleveland, he stabbed Cleveland in the back for his own gain. He didnt want to buy the club from Modell. Why should he? He could waltz in to CLeveland as a hero. But he was in the ear of Modell the entire time encouraging him to go to Baltimore. You guys have all that hatred for Modell you should have had the same for Lerner. Turned out Lerner was even more of a bum then Modell, he didnt care at all about Cleveland. He made a butt load of cash off of Cleveland and selling the Browns. Lerner was standing on the podium with Modell when he announced he was leaving Cleveland and going to Baltimore.

 

You are just dumbass wrong about most of this

[jcam222]

On 12/29/2018 at 8:08 PM, Ballsonchin said:

 I agree the Browns are not. But the wins have come from sub 500 teams. The same certianally can not be said about the Ravens. You are right we can't predict what will truly happen tomorrow, that is why we play the game. The Ravens are playing at home, for the division title, the #4 seed and possible #2 seed, the entire season or go home.....a one and done scenario. Sorry I guess you can say I am partial, but statistically over all the Ravens are better. The defense is way better,  the coaching is better, These are facts not a opinion based on emotions. I say Good luck we will find out in about 24 hours.

 

Rest well tonight knowing we beat you at home by 5 without the complete incompetence of the refs blowing that play dead.