Inside the Browns front office, ESPN

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

I like Nathan Zagura's response best to the outdated article.  

I'm sorry Flugs, but you literally lost me with this.

Nathan Zegura is a paid cheerleader. He's a one-man Browns propaganda machine. He's the Browns version of 'Tokyo Rose'. 

[Comeonman]

56 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry Flugs, but you literally lost me with this.

Nathan Zegura is a paid cheerleader. He's a one-man Browns propaganda machine. He's the Browns version of 'Tokyo Rose'. 

Gotta agree with that one. I’m pretty sure Nathan’s BB screen name starts with P and ends with G. 

[LondonBrown]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry Flugs, but you literally lost me with this.

Nathan Zegura is a paid cheerleader. He's a one-man Browns propaganda machine. He's the Browns version of 'Tokyo Rose'. 

Him getting suspended for a few games because of abusing the refs was funny though. But yeah he is never going to go against the pay day he has from the Browns

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Comeonman said:

Gotta agree with that one. I’m pretty sure Nathan’s BB screen name starts with P and ends with G. 

O?😘

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'm sorry Flugs, but you literally lost me with this.

Nathan Zegura is a paid cheerleader. He's a one-man Browns propaganda machine. He's the Browns version of 'Tokyo Rose'. 

Don't worry my man - I'll try to find you before you appear on a milk carton.

Regardless of what you think of Zegura - that doesn't make an outsider that's focusing more on what happened in 2013 and 2014 as more pertinent to where the Browns are at today my type of go-to guy for updates and current events about this franchise.  

Keep in mind, the same Seth Wickersham was writing about the Family Feud in NE (between Brady, Belichick and Kraft) that was destined to sink the ship. Now that NE is moving onto the SB from the ideal working relationships Brady, Belichick and Kraft had together - media suddenly can't stop telling us where Brady and Belichick currently rank with their accomplishments together. 

If you swing from your asss and miss the way Wickersham did on NE, time to get that confidence back up attacking the Cleveland Browns. How impressive especially since he didn't time it for when this team was in the process of 1-31 football. Oh no, he waited until more than 365 days later when the enthusiasm of this fan base reached it's highest points since the inexplicable 7-4 start to the 2014 season.   

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

If you have some real estate in Alligator Alley you could at least give  air boat tours. 😎

Except in a few spots, on my trip through Alligator Alley a few years ago from Naples over to Miami, it looked like the vegetation was far too dense to get an airboat through.... Amazing ride- it looked like to lay out the road, they just tied a rope to a cannonball, and fired. I counted, two turns the entire ride.....   

[Dutch Oven]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Don't worry my man - I'll try to find you before you appear on a milk carton.

Regardless of what you think of Zegura - that doesn't make an outsider that's focusing more on what happened in 2013 and 2014 as more pertinent to where the Browns are at today my type of go-to guy for updates and current events about this franchise.  

Keep in mind, the same Seth Wickersham was writing about the Family Feud in NE (between Brady, Belichick and Kraft) that was destined to sink the ship. Now that NE is moving onto the SB from the ideal working relationships Brady, Belichick and Kraft had together - media suddenly can't stop telling us where Brady and Belichick currently rank with their accomplishments together. 

If you swing from your asss and miss the way Wickersham did on NE, time to get that confidence back up attacking the Cleveland Browns. How impressive especially since he didn't time it for when this team was in the process of 1-31 football. Oh no, he waited until more than 365 days later when the enthusiasm of this fan base reached it's highest points since the inexplicable 7-4 start to the 2014 season.   

I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.

Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though. 

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.

Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though. 

True.  I don't think anyone will dispute the volume of mistakes Jimmy has made.  Looks like we agree there's been much more appropriate times to launch that kind of article than just recently.  

[Canton Mike]

20 minutes ago, Flugel said:

True.  I don't think anyone will dispute the volume of mistakes Jimmy has made.  Looks like we agree there's been much more appropriate times to launch that kind of article than just recently.  

Appropriate? Come now Tom, we ARE talking about the media, right? LOL

Mike

[Flugel]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

If you have some real estate in Alligator Alley you could at least give  air boat tours. 😎

If it wasn't such a perfect place to teach swimming lessons to Ratbird fans I might have the time to give air boat tours.  They love my buy 1 get one free specials; and so do the alligators...

[Nero]

I don't think the timing is odd. It is both a low season for the media (no FA yet; waiting for the SB) and maybe a turning point on Browns organization. We drafted some good young players (maybe a ROY) and acquired talent (I keep dreaming of Perryman becoming a #1WR), we fired a HC and an OC who didn't like each other and we hired as HC someone who almost no one knew about a year ago. This season we have been through a lot, and for once in a long time, we have a lot of things to be optimistic about. 

This article shows a lot of mistakes that have been made, but also the will of an organization to keep trying to do things better. No one has given up. Now that we seem to have some of the key pieces in place - a logical reporting structure, a strong GM, a good quaterback, an owner who lets others do their job...- is time to turn that will into positive results, but never forgetting where did we come from, learning from our mistakes.

[Dutch Oven]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

True.  I don't think anyone will dispute the volume of mistakes Jimmy has made.  Looks like we agree there's been much more appropriate times to launch that kind of article than just recently.  

But let's be honest, for many Browns fans, it wouldn't had mattered.

They'd pull the "if its news I don't like, it's bullshit news" nonsense and then bury their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't true. 

And if the problems rear their ugly head again, they'll act surprised. 

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Nero said:

I don't think the timing is odd. It is both a low season for the media (no FA yet; waiting for the SB) and maybe a turning point on Browns organization. We drafted some good young players (maybe a ROY) and acquired talent (I keep dreaming of Perryman becoming a #1WR), we fired a HC and an OC who didn't like each other and we hired as HC someone who almost no one knew about a year ago. This season we have been through a lot, and for once in a long time, we have a lot of things to be optimistic about. 

This article shows a lot of mistakes that have been made, but also the will of an organization to keep trying to do things better. No one has given up. Now that we seem to have some of the key pieces in place - a logical reporting structure, a strong GM, a good quaterback, an owner who lets others do their job...- is time to turn that will into positive results, but never forgetting where did we come from, learning from our mistakes.

I don't see many getting the same positive message you got from the article Nero nor do I think the author wanted any readers getting all warm and fuzzy about Jimmy today.  And for all the reasons you mentioned in your first paragraph - that's what made the timing of it all really strange as recent posts have mentioned...  There was a tremendous need to make those already worried about Jimmy - even more worried or 1 step closer to Nurse Ratchid.  It was like an alarm clock reminder to all the media in Cleveland along the lines of - "have you all forgotten venom sells before this Cinderella story in the 2nd half of 2018 reaches an inevitable early midnight?"    

Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year. 

[Dutch Oven]

3 hours ago, Nero said:

I don't think the timing is odd. It is both a low season for the media (no FA yet; waiting for the SB) and maybe a turning point on Browns organization. We drafted some good young players (maybe a ROY) and acquired talent (I keep dreaming of Perryman becoming a #1WR), we fired a HC and an OC who didn't like each other and we hired as HC someone who almost no one knew about a year ago. This season we have been through a lot, and for once in a long time, we have a lot of things to be optimistic about. 

This article shows a lot of mistakes that have been made, but also the will of an organization to keep trying to do things better. No one has given up. Now that we seem to have some of the key pieces in place - a logical reporting structure, a strong GM, a good quaterback, an owner who lets others do their job...- is time to turn that will into positive results, but never forgetting where did we come from, learning from our mistakes.

Also, lost in all the rehashing of the ineptitude of the Haslams Reign of Errors is the fact that the writer does acknowledge that the Browns are trending upward. 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Flugel said:

Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year. 

This makes zero sense to me.

The Browns since returning to the NFL have had TWO winning seasons out of 20 seasons. One playoff appearance. There's been one ridiculous story out of the front office after another... (Phil Savage almost getting fired after one season, the whole George Kokinis/Eric Mangini debacle, homeless people choosing draft picks, and on and on and on). Seriously, the Browns were easily contention to being the worst professional sports franchise. Not worst NFL franchise, but worst sports franchise of the big four leagues.

How exactly should have Tony Grossi and Mary Kay Cabot paint such a picture? Should they have gone all Nathan Zegura and smiled and danced his way through such ineptitude?

"Hi, I'm Nathan Zegura, and I'm going to tell all of you why the Browns taking Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in Round 1 of the 2014 Draft actually wasn't the shit sandwich everyone thinks it was, on the next installment of 'Yeah the Browns Suck, But I'm Going to Wrap It Up In A Pretty Bow And Kiss The Browns Organization's Ass Browns Show'!"   

[Flugel]

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

But let's be honest, for many Browns fans, it wouldn't had mattered.

They'd pull the "if its news I don't like, it's bullshit news" nonsense and then bury their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't true. 

And if the problems rear their ugly head again, they'll act surprised. 

As much as I look like I only want to hear positive stuff -  how many more times can they beat a dead horse with all the negative crap we already hear about over and over and over again.  Now that people are starting to see reasons to get excited - here it comes again at an unparalleled effort without pointing inexperience leads to growing pains in most dumpster fires that have never been put out.  But that sort of defies the agenda and venom juice.

The only thing I remember about the movie the Poseiden Adventure (in parallel to what this fan base has experienced) is the following verse from the theme song:  "Oh can't you see the morning after."  It sure would be nice with the momentum and mojo of the back stretch of the 2018 season to let this fan base see a morning after for a refreshing change.

I have a sense of cautious/guarded optimism just like anyone else. That said my football background of showing up with a game face that always gave me a much better chance than showing up in a feral position with we're gonna get our asses kicked is just too hard to change from this old dawg that doesn't learn new tricks.

 

[gumby73]

Cup of Joe media post of the day... "on this day 19 years ago, the Pats hired Bill Belichick as HC. Since that time, the rest of the NFL has employed 184 HC's combined" ...Haslam has owned this team since 2012 with a compiled record of 27-75-1..    Go get'em Freddie!!

[Zombo]

2 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

Cup of Joe post of the day... "on this day 19 years ago, the Pats hired Bill Belichick as HC. Since that time, the rest of the NFL has employed 184 HC's combined" ...Haslam has owned this team since 2012 with a compiled record of 27-75-1..    Go get'em Freddie!!

And February 15th will mark the 23rd anniversary of Art Modell and Baltimore firing Bill.

Zombo

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

This makes zero sense to me.

The Browns since returning to the NFL have had TWO winning seasons out of 20 seasons. One playoff appearance. There's been one ridiculous story out of the front office after another... (Phil Savage almost getting fired after one season, the whole George Kokinis/Eric Mangini debacle, homeless people choosing draft picks, and on and on and on). Seriously, the Browns were easily contention to being the worst professional sports franchise. Not worst NFL franchise, but worst sports franchise of the big four leagues.

How exactly should have Tony Grossi and Mary Kay Cabot paint such a picture? Should they have gone all Nathan Zegura and smiled and danced his way through such ineptitude?

"Hi, I'm Nathan Zegura, and I'm going to tell all of you why the Browns taking Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in Round 1 of the 2014 Draft actually wasn't the shit sandwich everyone thinks it was, on the next installment of 'Yeah the Browns Suck, But I'm Going to Wrap It Up In A Pretty Bow And Kiss The Browns Organization's Ass Browns Show'!"   

You don't want it to make sense so you're painting Zegura out to be the media person that doesn't know what he's talking about while defending Mary Kay Cabot and Tony Grossi for repeatedly attacking new leaderships in Cleveland before their contract ink dries.   AGAIN, Zegura pointed out that draft picks made from Sashi, Farmer and Banner (good or bad) weren't being made with nearly the same criteria, decision making process and majority of people Dorsey is using here in 2018 and 2019.  That was his main message about the timing of it all reflecting toward 2018 and 2019 ahead instead of dwelling on the sins of 2013 and 2014 that have no pertinence moving forward.  None.  Weren't you just telling me you totally agree the timing of the article was strange? 

When it is after the fact, I prefer a less biased agenda from sports writers like Pluto that give you an honest summary of both pros and cons rather than the convenient percentages of truth MKC and Grossi prefer to include in their summaries.  

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I don't see many getting the same positive message you got from the article Nero nor do I think the author wanted any readers getting all warm and fuzzy about Jimmy today.  And for all the reasons you mentioned in your first paragraph - that's what made the timing of it all really strange as recent posts have mentioned...  There was a tremendous need to make those already worried about Jimmy - even more worried or 1 step closer to Nurse Ratchid.  It was like an alarm clock reminder to all the media in Cleveland along the lines of - "have you all forgotten venom sells before this Cinderella story in the 2nd half of 2018 reaches an inevitable early midnight?"    

Now Tony Grossi and Mary Kay are going to get all jealous that someone in the media outside of Cleveland just beat them to stirring up controversy immediately the first hint this organization showed it was starting to progress past it (reflected by a team improving from 16 losses to 8 in just 1 year. 

I don’t know about a positive message, but for a story detailing the many follies Haslam has committed l thought it did a fair job painting a balanced picture and humanizing him. Some positives l gleamed is he has a helluva work ethic, he at least attempts to surround himself and listen to qualified people, he’s not that boss that is so high and mighty he won’t talk to the janitor, and he wants to be the best NFL owner he can be and has a butning desire to build a winner.

Plenty of negatives too though. He’s a fickle bastard, doesn’t always listen to the people he hires to consult or listens to the wrong people, goes back on his word, and there’s definitely an element of disingenuousness and shadyness about him. 

Quite frankly it seems he lucked into his present situation. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. 

[Tour2ma]

Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.

Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.

Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.

 

It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.

So don't fuck up, John...

[Orion]

On 1/26/2019 at 10:24 AM, Flugel said:

It wasn't like Randy Lerner was an experienced/seasoned owner before he realized his inheritance was only burying this franchise deeper.

At least he knew enough not to meddle.

Back when people wanted Lerner to sell the team I was like, It's the devil that you know vs the one you don't know.   But people wanted an owner that would be more 'involved' with the team.  Someone who cares more for the Browns than soccer.  Meanwhile Lerner never held back any financial needs the team had, he just didn't hire the right guy(s).  And for THAT sin he's got plenty of company.

[hoorta]

14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Finally got around to reading the article... and had mixed reactions galore.

Just about was feeling sorry for Farmer when it was mentioned he turned down an R2 pick for Hoyer. It's well established around here that I liked Hoyer... but offer me a 2nd for him and I'd help him pack.

Still feel bad for Sashi... but when Haslam hired Hue over the unanimous choice of the staff, he should have resigned then and there.

It's Dorsey's team now... for now. But he has to know that any misstep will bring Jimmah running.

So don't fuck up, John...

You meant "sell the team" regarding Hue... 

We can only pray Jimmuh has learned form his mistakes..  What did Shottenheimer say back in the '80s? There's a gleam guys- go get the gleam....  

 

[Tour2ma]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

There's a gleam guys- go get the gleam....  

And they all ran out and bought toothpaste...

 

Holy dated reference!

[Zombo]

I finally read the article, answers a lot of questions ... most of which we figured out on our own here at The Browns Board.

Here is what the writer got wrong:

 

Quote

Haslam elevated defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to interim head coach and Kitchens to offensive coordinator. It looked like another wasted season, with the looming threat of another coaching search and another failed first-round quarterback on top of it.

For those of us that watched the team closely from week to week, never EVER to did Baker feel like a failed anything ... it was the exact opposite of that, we all felt the coaching staff was holding the offense back, Baker certainly wasn't.

When Jackson and Haley were fired the National Media was all "Here they go again, the Browns are such a joke" ... But, we the fans celebrated, because Dorsey now had full control and it is easy to see he knows what he is doing, and it was easy to see we nailed the QB pick.

That was when we were 2-6-1. So suck our collective dicks, national media.

Zombo

[jrb12711]

You know, I really enjoyed reading this article and none of it was "shocking". The only thing I kinda reflected on about Haslam was the "why" on what he did before this year.

 

I consider myself a football dude, I'm sure most if not all of you do as well. What's very clear to me is ol' Jimmy felt the same way and made decisions thinking he was a football guy. In reflection, it's actually pretty hard for me to think I wouldn't have done that as well, given his position. I can't sit there and say I wouldn't have made some decisions as the "guy" that clashed with others. I know it's easy to note that's not what owners SHOULD do, but I can understand why he did. What's apparent though is that he realizes that wasn't the way to go. I'm sure he saw the dollar bills from having a team worth a shit (i.e. the december sell out game) and understood letting go caused that. With that being said, I can understand his early mistakes-can't say I wouldn't have made some of those myself.

[Flugel]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:44 PM, Dutch Oven said:

I totally agree, I found the timing of the article odd.

Doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly it was spot-on, though. 

Yeah, again my biggest and main beef from the time I entered the thread and responded to London Browns was the timing of the author.  I've mentioned in this thread Jimmy made countless mistakes along the way enough to understand why people were worrying (myself included at times).  Today, I'm pumped the franchise took a U-turn from chaos and confusion in 2018. 

[Mark O]

14 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Yeah, again my biggest and main beef from the time I entered the thread and responded to London Browns was the timing of the author.  I've mentioned in this thread Jimmy made countless mistakes along the way enough to understand why people were worrying (myself included at times).  Today, I'm pumped the franchise took a U-turn from chaos and confusion in 2018. 

I don't think the timing is all that strange.  The team has seemingly turned the corner and the author mentioned that.  It's also about the slowest possible news week in the NFL year with nothing at all happening so it was the perfect time to drop a story like that on NFL fans starved for any sort of "news".

[Zombo]

Top 3 reasons Sashi Brown got fired:

Then Dorsey uses the 0-16 season engineered by Kizer to draft  franchise QB Mayfield and the pick obtained from the Watson pick with Houston to draft Pro Bowler Denzel Ward, after collecting Sashi's three first rounders (including Pro Bowler Garrett and S Peppers, who is also from the Watson trade) and we are off to the races ...It's a funny game!

Z

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

It's a funny game!

...but as you indicate, Sashi was fired because of the picks he DIDN'T make.  We needed a QB....and he let everyone else have them.  

The Rams are in the SB.  Why?  They didn't have any high draft pick to be getting a top notch QB.  So they traded all the way up to #1 so they could go to a super bowl.

The Eagles won the SB.  They didn't have any high pick to get a top notch QB.  So they gladly traded with the dopes at #2 overall pick so THEY could go win a SB.

I've read where at one of the pro days they went to (which they didn't go to many) Sashi asked somebody, Which of these guys are we supposed to be watching?  -  We were a bunch of hacks.

----------

As has been said, we are past that now.  Haslam is taking a back seat to Dorsey, as far as football decisions go.  And Dorsey is doing a good job improving the talent level for his new QB.  

I'm reminded of coming out of  the Derek Anderson ten win season....we were the trendy pick for the following season....Monday night games, 4 prime timers I think.   I remember thinking, This could go awfully bad next year.  I had absolutely no faith in Derek Anderson.  I felt like we would be embarrassed on prime time.   ---   THIS YEAR, once again, we're the trendy pick.  There's talk of us on prime time often.  But I DO NOT have that Derek Anderson Sinking Feeling this time.  I have a Baker Mayfield  'DANGEROUS'  feeling.  I have a, 'We can play with ANYBODY' feeling.