You know what's really going to suck???

[Vagitron]

6 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

As I clearly noted, it's not about losing to a bad team it's about the "when" the losing occurred. The Steelers were rolling and lost to bottom barrel teams, with the Oakland game being a pretty significant "must win". That's just not something the Steelers have done in their current run of success-they always get those types of games. On top of that barely eeking out a week 17 win against a depleted bungler team in a true "win or we're out" showed cracks not shown before.

Look at their record in the last 20 years against the Raiders and no they don't always grt those games. The Steelers lose to bad teams a lot, far more than they should.

[Vagitron]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

Do you ever not talk directly out of your damn ass or is this just your m.o all the time? I know the answer to that but you apparently don't realize it. Juju has already broken nfl records. He's a different type of receiver but God damn gipper you either don't pay attention or are perpetually fully of shit. Which is it?

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

The transition tag could net additional draft picks. The Steelers have the cap room to match. All I'm saying on that front is I've read they are discussing the transiton tag.

For who? Bell...or Brown?  I mean, I guess they should do what they can that would be most prudent to acquire something in return. (this goes for both of these guys)

As far as brown is concerned he isn't Amari Cooper. He's arguably the best receiver in the league and a work out beast. He's always in tremendous shape and doesn't miss games as a direct result. He's on a cap friendly deal considering his production as well which is why he's saying he wants a new deal if he's moved. The team trading him will have prime time ab for at least another three seasons based on his work ethic alone. Further more the team doesn't have to trade his goofy ass at all.

That is all speculation.   Even according to you AB was superseded by another WR on his team.  You won't get what you think you want to get for him because:   A.  He WILL be seen as a headcase...and whoever trades for him is not going to want to pay a high price for a headcase.  B.He WILL be seen as getting older....actually PAST his prime....definitely not having 3 more years of prime performance...and C.  If he is seen by your team as now only the #2 option....other teams will say we will not pay a high price for a #2 WR option.  Of course, what you have to fall back on is the hope that it only takes one team to be seduced by his past performance...and who will overlook his prima donna attitude.You can hope for that, but I would not count on that being the case.

 

[The Gipper]

18 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

The transition tag gives the steelers leverage and the ability to potentially trade bell. If it jets a 4th it's still a 4th they didn't have before. 

Brown is under contract for two or three more seasons. The situation is completely different than bell.

Sure, like I said....they should get what they can and then bail out on him.

But....actually, Brown's situation may be exactly just like that of Bell.   He is discontented, has demanded a trade and wants out....notwithstanding his contract status.  That is pretty much what Bell did.  If you net a third and a 4th for these two guys, that may be your optimum return.   (unless...like I said, someone falls madly in love with them and is willing to pay more)

[Vagitron]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

 

Gipper one I never said juju was better. I said juju is already incredibly good. Brown is under contract for I believe two more seasons, maybe three (further evidence you don't pay attention or simply talk out of your ass) and has zero control. Brown is the best in the league and even with turning 31 will continue to put up big numbers because of his work ethic/fitness. He is a diva but teams deal with them all the time, especially when they are arguably the best at their position. 

[Vagitron]

Just now, The Gipper said:

Sure, like I said....they should get what they can and then bail out on him.

But....actually, Brown's situation may be exactly just like that of Bell.   He is discontented, has demanded a trade and wants out....notwithstanding his contract status.  That is pretty much what Bell did.  If you net a third and a 4th for these two guys, that may be your optimum return.   (unless...like I said, someone falls madly in love with them and is willing to pay more)

Bell was on a franchise tag, brown is not. He has no control.

[The Gipper]

12 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Do you ever not talk directly out of your damn ass or is this just your m.o all the time? I know the answer to that but you apparently don't realize it. Juju has already broken nfl records. He's a different type of receiver but God damn gipper you either don't pay attention or are perpetually fully of shit. Which is it?

It would help if we knew what you were responding to.   This just sounds like you are a crazy person in an asylum going off on your own to talk and rant to yourself.  I am not at all sure what you are talking about.  As far as Smith is concerned, I think I have been complimentary of him....though I would like to know what these NFL records are that he set.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Gipper one I never said juju was better. I said juju is already incredibly good. Brown is under contract for I believe two more seasons, maybe three (further evidence you don't pay attention or simply talk out of your ass) and has zero control. Brown is the best in the league and even with turning 31 will continue to put up big numbers because of his work ethic/fitness. He is a diva but teams deal with them all the time, especially when they are arguably the best at their position. 

OH? A.  You have said all along that Jujubee had been better this past year than Brown.  B. I never commented on Brown's contract situation...other than to say that he will not be with the Steelers next year...and I am only quoting what he is saying...and everyone else.  

Is he the best in the league?  His own teammates did not consider him to be the best on his own team.  Will he put up big numbers?  That remains to be seen...and it could all depend on which QB is throwing to him.  Will teams deal with a diva?  Sure, likely they will try.  But they will NOT pay a high price for a diva.  And sometimes they just get fed up and don't deal with them.   Can you say Terrell Owens?

You ASSume too much boy.

[Clevfan4life]

18 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

• Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
• Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
• Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

under normal circumstances I feel similar Tour, but not now. No, I think it's "great" that the Browns could be looking at an uncontested hegemony for several years. We need it. Im not predicting the North will be cream puffs, but if we can cruise at 70%, especially on Defense..during those 6 games, that's going to play HUGE for us come the December games against teams like KC and NE. I still think we're going to have to play 1st round games..im not expecting to be top 2 in the AFC for awhile, but im expecting to see teams like KC and NE in the 2nd rounds. And that's when having a "relatively" easy 6 games during the season could be "huge". 

Think of what a wind fall it's been for the North to have two games a year where they can come off the line easy, not quite pro bowl easy but easy nonetheless. It's time we had that with at least one or two of the North teams. Blt im expecting to be a war tho for awhile, with that O line they got. 

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Bell was on a franchise tag, brown is not. He has no control.

Obviously they both have/had some control.   Bell refused to play rather than play on the franchise tag.  Withholding your services. is the ultimate control.  Brown has demanded a trade.  He certainly also can refuse to play if a trade is not made.   The 13th Amendment forbids slavery FYI.  They can refuse to play.   Of course, they don't get paid....but obviously sometimes they may be willing to make that sacrifice.   Not sure how smart it was for Bell to have passed on 14 million bucks.  But that was his choice, be it sane or insane.

[browns52]

22 hours ago, JDailey23 said:

History has proven that counting out Pitt and Baltimore is very, very stupid. How many times  over the last decade has Pittsburgh finally “come to the end” only to still have a .500+ record and win/almost win the division. 

Dont be ignorant, I think Baker is a franchise guy, but this team only has potential. If you have watched this current version of the Indians, you know it’s a very short window and it’ll close just as quick as it opened.

if we don't improve the d especially the run d.....we will suck forever....don't care how good baker will be or the rest of the o......thats a fucking fact...

[choco]

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Guy is at the end of the line.. will be 41 in May....  

Not gonna be missed, outside of Pittsburgh. Almost single handedly responsible for the NFL instituting the helmet to helmet and leading with the helmet penalties...  

And you both whiffed on the point. HGH was brought back because he was the man...so he was told. Gave the hometown discount for a guy that won them a superb owl. Learned during the season the shit Tomlin fed him was a reduced role...he checked out.

Everyone in that lockerrom saw how HGH did it...am I to believe it's a coincidence it's happened twice since in a calendar year?

 

[hoorta]

7 hours ago, Vagitron said:

The transition tag gives the steelers leverage and the ability to potentially trade bell. If it jets a 4th it's still a 4th they didn't have before. 

Brown is under contract for two or three more seasons. The situation is completely different than bell.

LOL what kind of leverage do you think you have if the Steelers slap a transition tag on Bell?  Wishin' and a hopein' and a dreamin' for a potential draft pick.  Obviously, GMs of other teams are as dumb as the average Steeler fan- if that's what you think. It's free agency- by another name. Teams will bid on his services, and as in any auction- the bidding will start low. And if Bell doesn't like the lowball offer- he's under no obligation to sign it, and that includes going back to the Steelers... Teams aren't going to start offering draft picks for Bell- unless they have to...   

Regarding Brown- as Gipper said- not really. You may control his contract- but you don't control him. He's already banked around $20 million or so- I'm not going to bother totaling up the exact number. Plenty enough loot to flip the Steelers the bird and sit out as long as necessary if they dick around with him. 

6 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 B. I never commented on Brown's contract situation...other than to say that he will not be with the Steelers next year...and I am only quoting what he is saying...and everyone else.  

Is he the best in the league?  His own teammates did not consider him to be the best on his own team.  Will he put up big numbers?  That remains to be seen...and it could all depend on which QB is throwing to him.  Will teams deal with a diva?  Sure, likely they will try.  But they will NOT pay a high price for a diva.  And sometimes they just get fed up and don't deal with them.   Can you say Terrell Owens?

Brown's teammates considered him to be a primadonna dick-  probably the reason Ju-Ju got team MVP. And as I pointed out, teams with playoff aspirations aren't going to bid high- if he can't coexist with Ju-Ju, you think the Colts (Ty Hilton) or Houston (Deandre Hopkins) are gonna want to deal with a head case who sits out games with phantom injuries and wants to be the top dog? Wake up Vag- talent aside, Antonio's antics definitely have torpedoed his trade value.   

 

[choco]

15 hours ago, hoorta said:

Wishin' and a hopein' and a dreamin' for a potential draft pick.

Ah yes, just another example of vag having no clue clue what he's on about. There's no draft pick compensation with the transition tag...it's only right of first refusal. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/02/14/le-veon-bell-transition-tag-steelers-news-nfl/stories/201902140185

He's quite literally a clueless idiot.

[Kvoethe]

This message board?

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, choco said:

Ah yes, just another example of vag having no clue clue what he's on about. There's no draft pick compensation with the transition tag...it's only right of first refusal. 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/02/14/le-veon-bell-transition-tag-steelers-news-nfl/stories/201902140185

He's quite literally a clueless idiot.

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

EDIT:  choco's right, the Steelers can't sign a transition player and then try and trade him... 

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

What if they did that, but Bell never signs the tender?  Does he become a UFA?  That article does not imply that. Or...when you say "tender offer"   you mean that the Steelers just slap that on him....he does  signs nothing with them....but he is still free to negotiate a contract with another team....and the Steelers have the right to match that deal?

[hoorta]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

What if they did that, but Bell never signs the tender?  Does he become a UFA?

RE: they can't match unless Bell signs a tender offer in the first place. Let's assume he does sign one. Would the Steelers be big enough a-holes to match? Bad, bad PR move in my book. 

I have no idea what would happen if he never signs any offer. I'll research it. Probably become a UFA - eventually.

[choco]

33 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Reading the article, the only conceivable way that happens is if Bell signs a tender offer, the Steelers match, and THEN try to trade him. Fat chance there. Way at the bottom of the article, Vag isn't totally wrong. Just letting Bell walk, instead of screwing him over with the transition tag will net them a compensatory pick in the 2020 draft.

as per CBA, he can only be traded after the tag if he agrees to it.  thats a crapshoot, but he may agree.

possible to get a comp pick, sure.  can't sign many FA's, or it pushes down that pick value.  which means little immediate help for that team next year.    

[hoorta]

51 minutes ago, choco said:

as per CBA, he can only be traded after the tag if he agrees to it.  thats a crapshoot, but he may agree.

possible to get a comp pick, sure.  can't sign many FA's, or it pushes down that pick value.  which means little immediate help for that team next year.    

Found that out doing more research... 

"The transition tag gives Bell more flexibility. That's why he would welcome it. But one option that would not be possible under the transition tag: a sign and trade. The CBA does not allow that.

What was Bell’s transition tag number supposed to be originally?

Around $17.4 million, or 120 percent of his previous salary."

ESPN article- from last year, though the part about 2019 still applies... 

http://www.espn.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/29206/leveon-bell-saga-how-he-gets-to-free-agency-tag-implications-more

And in answer to Gippers question- if Bell never signs an offer sheet, he could sit out another year (he won't) and become a UFA...  But looking at Spotrac, assuming another team offers Bell a front loaded contract, the Steelers aren't going to be in a position to match, they're 6th from the bottom in cap room... 

[Zombo]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:33 PM, The Gipper said:

No. I don't think so.  I think that if you looked at each and every other team in the league....at their QB, top RB, top WR....you would see that they are middle of the pack. 

HOF QB,  Pro Bowl 1,400 yard receiver and and Pro Bowl running back who was on pace for over 1.300 yards and had 12 TDs is "middle of the pack"? Some pack.

Zombo

[ballpeen]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:11 PM, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

• Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
• Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
• Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

I don't know.  I would welcome some laughers for about 10 years.

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Zombo said:

HOF QB,  Pro Bowl 1,400 yard receiver and and Pro Bowl running back who was on pace for over 1.300 yards and had 12 TDs is "middle of the pack"? Some pack.

Zombo

See the list of all the other teams players. Seems close to the middle of the  pack  to me. 

[Zombo]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

See the list of all the other teams players. Seems close to the middle of the  pack  to me. 

I can tell you already that three Pro Bowlers is higher than 16th.

Z

[Flugel]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:11 PM, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

While beating a division rival in the closing seconds is an absolute thrill; Karma reminds us there's 2 AFC North teams outside of Ohio that need some serious payback. You're buddy Flugel would LOVE to see it happen in the form of a blow out or 2 or 3.... 

[Alkid3]

Conner is nowhere near as good as Bell. And nobody knows how well the Bengals coach will do. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Alkid3 said:

Conner is nowhere near as good as Bell. And nobody knows how well the Bengals coach will do. 

Connor may not be as good as Bell, but he's good enough. Regarding the Bengals, we'll see about the new coach. MHO is their nose dive last year can be attributed to the sheer number of injuries they had. We knocked Dalton out, and AJ Green missed over half the season with a bum toe. 12 guys on IR, and a fair number of  them starters.

[Canton Mike]

6 hours ago, Flugel said:

While beating a division rival in the closing seconds is an absolute thrill; Karma reminds us there's 2 AFC North teams outside of Ohio that need some serious payback. You're buddy Flugel would LOVE to see it happen in the form of a blow out or 2 or 3.... 

...or 4 + 2 IN state!

Mike

[Westside Steve]

Frankly I'm just as happy to have 18 Browns wins by blowout in a row and blank the NFC in the Super Bowl.

For the next 15 years.

😀

WSS

[gumby73]

Not wishing this guy a Happy 83rd Birthday!!    Happy Birthday 🐐..