jbluhm86 Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 CBS News: Trump vetoes bill that would have prevented arms sales to Saudi Arabia and UAE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 But they are our extremists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 What is in our national interest? If we really cared about human rights why do we have massive trading with China and others who violate human rights? If it is in our own interests to sell weapons to the Saudis then we should follow that. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/the-us-saudi-relationship-must-be-preserved-our-national-interest-demands-it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said: What is in our national interest? If we really cared about human rights why do we have massive trading with China and others who violate human rights? If it is in our own interests to sell weapons to the Saudis then we should follow that. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/the-us-saudi-relationship-must-be-preserved-our-national-interest-demands-it It was in our interest to arm the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Soviets back in the 80s. That idea ended up working out like gangbusters for us, didn't it? Didn't come back to bite us in the ass at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said: It was in our interest to arm the Mujahedeen when they were fighting the Soviets back in the 80s. That idea ended up working out like gangbusters for us, didn't it? And I could make the same comparisons the other way. It would have been better for us to have supported the Shah of Iran than to allow Khomeini to take power. This is not settled science you just do the best you can under the circumstances at the time. Sometimes in the long run it may prove out wrong..other times it proves to be a good decision. I would think when you make a decision that is in the best interests of our nation you would try to look at the long term implications as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Yes they are our extremists. We have a symbiotic relationship with the Saudis. I have no problem selling them arms. If we had to cease relations with every country in the world that had some skeletons in their closets we would have to go to completely isolationist. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just now, OldBrownsFan said: And I could make the same comparisons the other way. It would have been better for us to have supported the Shah of Iran than to allow Khomeini to take power. This is not settled science you just do the best you can under the circumstances at the time. Sometimes in the long run it may prove out wrong..other times it proves to be a good decision. I would think when you make a decision that is in the best interests of our nation you would try to look at the long term implications as well. I'm pretty sure I know where on the scale of "good vs bad ideas" that selling arms to the world's largest exporter of Wahhabist-Islam falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Just now, jbluhm86 said: I'm pretty sure I know where on the scale of "good vs bad ideas" that selling arms to the world's largest exporter of Wahhabist-Islam falls. And I am pretty sure the arguments go a little deeper than that. The shah of Iran was a ruthless dictator and yet we should have supported him over Khomeini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: And I could make the same comparisons the other way. It would have been better for us to have supported the Shah of Iran than to allow Khomeini to take power. This is not settled science you just do the best you can under the circumstances at the time. Sometimes in the long run it may prove out wrong..other times it proves to be a good decision. I would think when you make a decision that is in the best interests of our nation you would try to look at the long term implications as well. YEP. Letting the Shaw fall enslaved an entire people of Iran - by a bunch of dangerous sicko violent religious thugs - and obaMao helped iran fund terrorism all around the middle east, they demand the end of Israel's existence, and want all of us to die. But did any leftie like Jblu become "offended" when obaMao gave them riches: Secret Obama-era permit let Iran convert funds to dollars - AP News https://www.apnews.com/27e8179cf10140dca7eb86b3488f01e2 Jun 6, 2018 - To spend it, Iran wanted to convert the money into U.S. dollars and then ... in which the U.S. and world powers gave Iran billions of dollars in ... Iran nuclear deal: Obama team gave Iran access to US dollars, GOP ... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/.../iran...obama...iran.../677506002... Jun 6, 2018 - The Obama administration gave Iran brief access to the U.S. financial system as part of the Iran nuclear deal despite specifically telling ... How Obama Secretly Gave Iran Access To Billions Of Dollars — And ... https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-iran-terrorism/ Jun 8, 2018 - How Obama Secretly Gave Iran Access To Billions Of Dollars ... repeatedly to be "scandal-free," this money did not have innocuous uses. **************************************** I'm thinkin objecting to us selling arms to the Saudis hardly and not saying a word about obaMao helping iran fund becoming the largest terrorist org funder on the planet, and the largest terrorist org - the iranian government. just political insane bigotry gone wild. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, calfoxwc said: YEP. Letting the Shaw fall enslaved an entire people of Iran - by a bunch of dangerous sicko violent religious thugs - and obaMao helped iran fund terrorism all around the middle east, they demand the end of Israel's existence, and want all of us to die. But did any leftie like Jblu become "offended" when obaMao gave them riches: Secret Obama-era permit let Iran convert funds to dollars - AP News https://www.apnews.com/27e8179cf10140dca7eb86b3488f01e2 Jun 6, 2018 - To spend it, Iran wanted to convert the money into U.S. dollars and then ... in which the U.S. and world powers gave Iran billions of dollars in ... Iran nuclear deal: Obama team gave Iran access to US dollars, GOP ... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/.../iran...obama...iran.../677506002... Jun 6, 2018 - The Obama administration gave Iran brief access to the U.S. financial system as part of the Iran nuclear deal despite specifically telling ... How Obama Secretly Gave Iran Access To Billions Of Dollars — And ... https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-iran-terrorism/ Jun 8, 2018 - How Obama Secretly Gave Iran Access To Billions Of Dollars ... repeatedly to be "scandal-free," this money did not have innocuous uses. **************************************** I'm thinkin objecting to us selling arms to the Saudis hardly compares to helping iran fund becoming the largest terrorist org funder on the planet, and the largest terrorist org - the iranian government. I wasn't frugal with my upvotes and now I have none left, I have become too liberal in spending my upvotes, let this be a lesson to me...so consider this an upvote +++++++++++++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: I wasn't frugal with my upvotes and now I have none left, I have become too liberal in spending my upvotes, let this be a lesson to me...so consider this an upvote +++++++++++++ I keep running out of them, too. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 u stupid fucking morons we did support the shaw, he was our guy. The whole reason we cant let go of our animosity toward tge iranians is because they ousted tte shaw 25 years after we helped install him. " Friday. The Iranian Revolution (Persian: انقلاب ایران, romanized: Enqelābe Irān;), also known as the Islamic Revolution or the 1979 Revolution,[4]was a series of events that involved the overthrow of the last monarch of Iran, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi,[5] and the replacement of his government with an Islamic republic under the Grand AyatollahRuhollah Khomeini, a leader of one of the factions in the revolt.[6] The movement against the United States-backed monarchy was supported by various leftist and Islamist organizations[7] and student movements." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 will any of u clowns ever know something before u post something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said: u stupid fucking morons we did support the shaw, he was our guy. The whole reason we cant let go of our animosity toward tge iranians is because they ousted tte shaw 25 years after we helped install him. " Friday. The Iranian Revolution (Persian: انقلاب ایران, romanized: Enqelābe Irān;), also known as the Islamic Revolution or the 1979 Revolution,[4]was a series of events that involved the overthrow of the last monarch of Iran, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi,[5] and the replacement of his government with an Islamic republic under the Grand AyatollahRuhollah Khomeini, a leader of one of the factions in the revolt.[6] The movement against the United States-backed monarchy was supported by various leftist and Islamist organizations[7] and student movements." We supported the Shah until Jimmy Carter abandoned him. You may read about it in history books, I lived through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: We supported the Shah until Jimmy Carter abandoned him. You may read about it in history books, I lived through it. oh ice read my history, the shah was a piece of human shit. He was in power because of what the CIA did to mossadegh in 52. We had just gotten out of vietnam a few years before the iranians took their own country back. Or do u think we should have headed off into the sands to fight some college students? just a few years after we left vietnam cause we lost too many lives fighting people who's only crime was being over western colonialism? oh and we didnt just leave it be did we? we armed saddam and told him to fight the iranians. Gave him chemical wespons too.....howd that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said: oh ice read my history, the shah was a piece of human shit. He was in power because of what the CIA did to mossadegh in 52. We had just gotten out of vietnam a few years before the iranians took their own country back. Or do u think we should have headed off into the sands to fight some college students? just a few years after we left vietnam cause we lost too many lives fighting people who's only crime was being over western colonialism? oh and we didnt just leave it be did we? we armed saddam and told him to fight the iranians. Gave him chemical wespons too.....howd that work out? Just as Libya was better off with Khadaffi, Iran (and the rest of the world) was better off with the Shah as bad as he was. Thank Jimmy Carter for Current Iran Mess https://www.newsmax.com/larrybell/ayatollah-oil-prices-reagan/2018/02/05/id/841485/ President Carter supported the Iranian Revolution New information shows how Khomeini fooled Carter into helping him overthrow US ally, while deceiving US public. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/213292 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 The reason Iran is a problem today is because we've embargoed them since 1979. That is undebateable. Oh and we shot down an Iranian airliner in 88 killing 300 people. Ooops….🙄 oh and we supplied Iraq with American weapons with an explicit agreement that they go to war with Iran if we do. We didn't have to have an adversarial relationship with Iran, we CHOSE it. We've done this with every country that's defied us, usually by taking back some natural resource of theirs....like Iran and it's oil. It's bullshit. We created the rift with Iran, end of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 It does go back to 1979..back to weak kneed democrat Jimmy Carter who thought the Ayatollah was going to be his new friend. Then his new pals in Iran held 52 Americans hostages for over a year and Carter acted clueless how to act...strange how Iran had no respect for wimpy and weak Jimmy Carter but almost immediately after Reagan was elected they released our hostages? Peace through strength...it is the only way. Iran knew there was a new Sheriff at the White House who wasn't going to play games with them holding American hostages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said: It does go back to 1979..back to weak kneed democrat Jimmy Carter who thought the Ayatollah was going to be his new friend. Then his new pals in Iran held 52 Americans hostages for over a year and Carter acted clueless how to act...strange how Iran had no respect for wimpy and weak Jimmy Carter but almost immediately after Reagan was elected they released our hostages? Peace through strength...it is the only way. Iran knew there was a new Sheriff at the White House who wasn't going to play games with them holding American hostages. I don't think carter expected anyone to be our friends after 20 plus years of essentially aiding their oppressive dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 oh and those were Iranian students that stormed the American embassy. Not the Ayatollahs "crack" ninja squad. On November 4, 1979, a group of Iranian students stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, taking more than 60 American hostages. The immediate cause of this action was President Jimmy Carter’s decision to allow Iran’s deposed Shah, a pro-Western autocrat who had been expelled from his country some months before, to come to the United States for cancer treatment. However, the hostage-taking was about more than the Shah’s medical care: it was a dramatic way for the student revolutionaries to declare a break with Iran’s past and an end to American interference in its affairs. It was also a way to raise the intra- and international profile of the revolution’s leader, the anti-American cleric Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. The students set their hostages free on January 21, 1981, 444 days after the crisis began and just hours after President Ronald Reagan delivered his inaugural address. Many historians believe that hostage crisis cost Jimmy Carter a second term as president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said: oh and those were Iranian students that stormed the American embassy. Not the Ayatollahs "crack" ninja squad. On November 4, 1979, a group of Iranian students stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, taking more than 60 American hostages. The immediate cause of this action was President Jimmy Carter’s decision to allow Iran’s deposed Shah, a pro-Western autocrat who had been expelled from his country some months before, to come to the United States for cancer treatment. However, the hostage-taking was about more than the Shah’s medical care: it was a dramatic way for the student revolutionaries to declare a break with Iran’s past and an end to American interference in its affairs. It was also a way to raise the intra- and international profile of the revolution’s leader, the anti-American cleric Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. The students set their hostages free on January 21, 1981, 444 days after the crisis began and just hours after President Ronald Reagan delivered his inaugural address. Many historians believe that hostage crisis cost Jimmy Carter a second term as president. I highlighted for you what you need to know....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: I highlighted for you what you need to know....... That helped but I think it was mostly the fact that Paul Volcker put the clamps on the economy due to fears of inflation. But selecting the Ayatollah over the Shah was a stupid idea too. Just like siding with Iran against Saudi Arabia will be. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: That helped but I think it was mostly the fact that Paul Volcker put the clamps on the economy due to fears of inflation. But selecting the Ayatollah over the Shah was a stupid idea too. Just like siding with Iran against Saudi Arabia will be. WSS Agree. I'm not a big fan of Saudi Arabia but I want to stand back, look at the bigger picture and do what is best for our own national interest before abandoning our strategic alliance. Obama made the same Jimmy Carter mistake when he sided with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Fortunatley their own military stepped in to topple the Muslim Brotherhood president that Obama seemed too willing to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 29 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said: Agree. I'm not a big fan of Saudi Arabia but I want to stand back, look at the bigger picture and do what is best for our own national interest before abandoning our strategic alliance. Obama made the same Jimmy Carter mistake when he sided with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Fortunatley their own military stepped in to topple the Muslim Brotherhood president that Obama seemed too willing to support. Not to mention the Fiasco in Libya. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Westside Steve said: Not to mention the Fiasco in Libya. WSS Jimmy Carter was quickly rewarded for supporting the Ayatollah over the Shah with having 52 Americans held hostage and our support for the rebels in Libya ended up making Libya a failed state, even worse than before and we were repaid for our support with Benghazi. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dste Ace Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Unfortunately, U.S. involvement in Iran's internal affairs doesn't begin in 1979. The Iranians didn't just wake up one morning in 1979 and decide to storm the embassy in Tehran. Do a quick google search of SAVAK. Knowing that the people who are making you watch a bunch of guys rape your wife while sticking a cattle prod up your ass were trained by the CIA with the blessing of the benevolent American government won't make the Iranian people look too fondly on the U.S. Also, google the exile of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. The decision to allow him into the U.S for treatment of his cancer (which the State Dept. warned Carter would likely result in the Iranian regime seizing the American embassy) was an act of pure political fuckery on both sides of the ideological aisle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dste Ace said: Unfortunately, U.S. involvement in Iran's internal affairs doesn't begin in 1979. The Iranians didn't just wake up one morning in 1979 and decide to storm the embassy in Tehran. Do a quick google search of SAVAK. Knowing that the people who are making you watch a bunch of guys rape your wife while sticking a cattle prod up your ass were trained by the CIA with the blessing of the benevolent American government won't make the Iranian people look too fondly on the U.S. Also, google the exile of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. The decision to allow him into the U.S for treatment of his cancer (which the State Dept. warned Carter would likely result in the Iranian regime seizing the American embassy) was an act of pure political fuckery on both sides of the ideological aisle. It has been at least equally as bad for the Iranian people after 1979 with human rights abuses but for our country and interests it has gotten worse. We were better off with the Shah in power and when he was replaced by Ayatollah Khomeini things didn't improve for the Iranian people. To be clear though I'm not condoning the human rights abuses of the Shah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, Dste Ace said: Unfortunately, U.S. involvement in Iran's internal affairs doesn't begin in 1979. The Iranians didn't just wake up one morning in 1979 and decide to storm the embassy in Tehran. Do a quick google search of SAVAK. Knowing that the people who are making you watch a bunch of guys rape your wife while sticking a cattle prod up your ass were trained by the CIA with the blessing of the benevolent American government won't make the Iranian people look too fondly on the U.S. Also, google the exile of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. The decision to allow him into the U.S for treatment of his cancer (which the State Dept. warned Carter would likely result in the Iranian regime seizing the American embassy) was an act of pure political fuckery on both sides of the ideological aisle. Nobody said the extremists just decided one morning nothing. Why condemn SAVAK, and ignore the terror of dangerous vicious nutjobs of the current gov? Sadly, several countries in that part of the world are crapholes. They are Muslim extremists doing the terror on their own people. State Department Report 6: Iran's Human Rights Abuses | The Iran ... https://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/.../state-department-report-6-irans-human-rights-abuse... Sep 28, 2018 - The Iranian regime continues to violate the human rights of its own people, ... The Iranian government targets its citizens for peaceful civic .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 State Department Report 6: Iran's Human Rights Abuses | The Iran ... https://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/.../state-department-report-6-irans-human-rights-abuse... Sep 28, 2018 - The Iranian regime continues to violate the human rights of its own people, ... The Iranian government targets its citizens for peaceful civic .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: Agree. I'm not a big fan of Saudi Arabia but I want to stand back, look at the bigger picture and do what is best for our own national interest before abandoning our strategic alliance. Obama made the same Jimmy Carter mistake when he sided with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Fortunatley their own military stepped in to topple the Muslim Brotherhood president that Obama seemed too willing to support. Miss Moscow partcipants: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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