Hashtag stop the gun violence

[OldBrownsFan]

Let's start with some honesty. Unless you can get all of the nearly 400 million guns out of circulation in the United States you are not going to stop the gun violence. If you want to be accurate let's say "reduce the gun violence" because that is the best realistically you are going to achieve. I would go further and say how do we reduce gun violence without infringing on gun rights of law abiding citizens?

One of the first questions I would want to address is why is there so much gun violence today when it wasn't that way 50 years ago? The availability of guns is not the answer because guns were even more easily accessible 50 years ago and they weren't experiencing an epidemic of mass shootings. So that can't be it. 

Banning some semi automatics didn't work in the 90's when Clinton did it so why would we expect it to work now? 

I would go with harsher punishments for those breaking gun laws we already have on the books. I don't pretend it will stop the gun violence but at least it goes after the law breakers instead of punishing law abiding citizens by taking away their gun rights (in a futile effort to stop lawbreakers like most gun control measures talked about will do).

[Westside Steve]

Actually if you insist on honesty there are three or four hundred mass shooting deaths a year.

There are 328 million people in the United States.

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

5 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Actually if you insist on honesty there are three or four hundred mass shootings a year.

There are 328 million people in the United States.

WSS

That is a good point but the mass shootings today are so horrific unlike anything we have ever seen. 

What is creating monsters like we have seen who can so easily kill so many innocent people? From my perspective as a Christian I believe it is demonic. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

9 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Let's start with some honesty. Unless you can get all of the nearly 400 million guns out of circulation in the United States you are not going to stop the gun violence. If you want to be accurate let's say "reduce the gun violence" because that is the best realistically you are going to achieve. I would go further and say how do we reduce gun violence without infringing on gun rights of law abiding citizens?

One of the first questions I would want to address is why is there so much gun violence today when it wasn't that way 50 years ago? The availability of guns is not the answer because guns were even more easily accessible 50 years ago and they weren't experiencing an epidemic of mass shootings. So that can't be it. 

Banning some semi automatics didn't work in the 90's when Clinton did it so why would we expect it to work now? 

I would go with harsher punishments for those breaking gun laws we already have on the books. I don't pretend it will stop the gun violence but at least it goes after the law breakers instead of punishing law abiding citizens by taking away their gun rights (in a futile effort to stop lawbreakers like most gun control measures talked about will do).

 

[Westside Steve]

7 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

That is a good point but the mass shootings today are so horrific unlike anything we have ever seen. 

But enacting National programs or anything of the sort try and control the handful of shooters is a little bit ridiculous. There are more people killed by blunt objects tham in mass shootings. There are three times as many killed with knives or swords.

Yes I know the left will cry we just have to do something. And I will counter that doing something that is ineffective is worse than doing nothing. Because then it's just Politics as Usual.

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

4 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

 

I was a young kid when this happened but I remember it. It was huge news at the time because it was rare and nobody had seen anything like it...certainly not common place like today. If I remember right they did an autopsy on this shooter and in his case he had a brain tumor that may have triggered what he did?...of course not saying all the shootings today are due to brain tumors.

[OldBrownsFan]

6 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

But enacting National programs or anything of the sort try and control the handful of shooters is a little bit ridiculous. There are more people killed by blunt objects tham in mass shootings. There are three times as many killed with knives or swords.

Yes I know the left will cry we just have to do something. And I will counter the doing something that is ineffective is worse than doing nothing. Because then it's just Politics as Usual.

WSS

I agree and worse for me are that the ones who will suffer from ineffective feel good legislation are the gun rights of law abiding citizens who are not a threat to anyone.

[calfoxwc]

it's asinine and corrupt to say it's the guns' fault. And really ignorant to say that if we keep passing

laws vs our 2nd Amendment, it will change much. As I have shown in the other thread, the shooter could save up

his money and buy an anti-tank gun from a gang. or a hand grenade. Doesn't matter if they are illegal - gangs and drug cartels do a lot of terrorism and illegal stuff. And have any guns they want to sell on the black market.

As to your question, OBF, my belief is that it is due to a few different new societal changes.

1. Social media. Can make those with mental problems seem unimportant in the world. Can make the mentally ill worse, from bullying, or just acting out in violent online video games. It's a whirlwind of happenings all around the world. When someone can't handle being alone and bullied in their school...neighborhood...that is compounded to extremes online, I think.

2. I believe taking God and family values out of schools is causing a lot of emptiness and directionless. Emotion rules, instead of belief in Godly principles.

3. 1 and 2 also create a false personal arrogance in some twisted people. They come to believe that they are "god". Their feelings rule. and they can lash out in violence because they are angry. They HATE.

4. Drugs. Prescription (anti-depressive) and illegal. Several of the murderers have been shown to be under psychiatric care, and taking prozac, or getting OFF prozac.

So many aspects of this horror, and all the left wants to do is win a giant political win over our 2nd Amendment, and dominate the right side of our country.

*****************************************************

Antidepressants Are a Prescription for Mass Shootings – Citizens ...

https://www.cchrflorida.org/antidepressants-are-a-prescription-for-mass-shootings/

As in, there sure seems to be correlation between prescription drugs for mental illness and boys or men who are involved in mass shootings. So we may yet see ...

Op-Ed: Nearly all mass shooters have 4 things in common - Los ...

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/.../el-paso-dayton-gilroy-mass-shooters-data

21 hours ago - Perpetrators of mass shootings have a lot in common. Understanding that could help ... FDA prescription drug approval · Opinion · Op-Ed: A ...

 

[calfoxwc]

and, just like poverty - the left refuses to help solve problems because they

profit from people with problems who will vote for them.

And, referencing the other thread about "20% of millenials say they have no friends"...

alienation/self-imposed "solitary existence" in society doesn't make prozac seem like something to

be ignored in the discussion.

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, OldBrownsFan said:

That is a good point but the mass shootings today are so horrific unlike anything we have ever seen. 

What is creating monsters like we have seen who can so easily kill so many innocent people? From my perspective as a Christian I believe it is demonic. 

There ya go guys. It's Satan's fault. Case closed

[OldBrownsFan]

6 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

There ya go guys. It's Satan's fault. Case closed

Sorry Woody but "the devil made me do it" doesn't work as an argument. Nobody is forced  to listen to or act on demonic influences except for rare cases of demon possession.

[MLD Woody]

45 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Sorry Woody but "the devil made me do it" doesn't work as an argument. Nobody is forced  to listen to or act on demonic influences except for rare cases of demon possession.

Part of me wants to keep this going for the entertainment value but it's just not worth it today

[OldBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

Part of me wants to keep this going for the entertainment value but it's just not worth it today

IE...I usually show my ignorance by commenting on spiritual matters which I know nothing about...

[The Cysko Kid]

4 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Let's start with some honesty. Unless you can get all of the nearly 400 million guns out of circulation in the United States you are not going to stop the gun violence. If you want to be accurate let's say "reduce the gun violence" because that is the best realistically you are going to achieve. I would go further and say how do we reduce gun violence without infringing on gun rights of law abiding citizens?

One of the first questions I would want to address is why is there so much gun violence today when it wasn't that way 50 years ago? The availability of guns is not the answer because guns were even more easily accessible 50 years ago and they weren't experiencing an epidemic of mass shootings. So that can't be it. 

Banning some semi automatics didn't work in the 90's when Clinton did it so why would we expect it to work now? 

I would go with harsher punishments for those breaking gun laws we already have on the books. I don't pretend it will stop the gun violence but at least it goes after the law breakers instead of punishing law abiding citizens by taking away their gun rights (in a futile effort to stop lawbreakers like most gun control measures talked about will do).

There was plenty of gun violence 50 years ago. There were spree killers like Charles starkweather and there were Mass shooters like Charles Whitman. Then there were the regular old shoot em ups that still happen in bars and regular city streets today. There were armed robberies and murder suicides and gang related shootings. None of this is new. 

The difference is there's millions, maybe hundreds of millions more people now making the same percentages of violence SEEM greater and also news travels much faster and is no longer a largely regional affair.  

[OldBrownsFan]

25 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

There was plenty of gun violence 50 years ago. There were spree killers like Charles starkweather and there were Mass shooters like Charles Whitman. Then there were the regular old shoot em ups that still happen in bars and regular city streets today. There were armed robberies and murder suicides and gang related shootings. None of this is new. 

The difference is there's millions, maybe hundreds of millions more people now making the same percentages of violence SEEM greater and also news travels much faster and is no longer a largely regional affair.  

We have always had gun violence but nothing like this. Not like what we are seeing now. There are more senseless shootings today like the school shootings which are a more recent phenomenon. Scores of people have been shot in churches, malls, movie theaters, concerts like the one in Las Vegas etc..not for any type of robbery but senseless shootings. 

Whitman is an example of a senseless shooting but it was not common back then. His type of case was rare and later we found he had a brain tumor that may or may not have influenced his behavior. 

[The Cysko Kid]

That has been a thing throughout modern history as you can easily find out on Google. Before Whitman there was Unruh. It's more common now, maybe, but I bet lots of different other types of murders have gone down quite a bit. Serial murders...way down. What has been typically thought of as starkweather type spree killing lumped into mass shootings. Gangland shootings, always a problem rarely noticed by the gentler people - lumped into mass shootings. Family killings - again, always a thing, lumped into mass shootings. A lot of this is done so that there can be screaming headlines that say "276 MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA IN 2019" 

That headline makes it sound like there were 276 El Paso indiscriminate public shootings when that's not actually the case. 

[Vambo]

[calfoxwc]

My all time favorite cartoon. I need to go find my books of them and reread them.

truly brilliant stuff. Calvin and Hobbes !

[BrownsKidd]

I will not deny that “mass shootings” have increased. 
I am also in favor of responsibly vetted and gun ownership laws and legislation.
I am not sure that citizens need access to high volume magazines and rounds that would be considered “military grade” (if that is even a thing because I am no gun expert).
I am also considering getting my CCW, so understand where I am coming from.

What is unfortunate is that this has turned into a very emotional debate and one that has its political sides.  However, as a society, we tend to ignore logic, facts, and run with the our political sides before we weigh on a subject as serious as this.

It was either late last year or early this year I did some research form a .GOV website comparing death statistics in the U.S. And this was actually something that Neil Degrasse Tyson was trying to point out but came under the backlash of twitter and other social devices because again, people throw out, logic, over emotions and politics. 

In this country, alcohol related deaths nearly triple gun related deaths.  Now keep in mind, gun related means all deaths used by guns.  If you remove homicides and other gun deaths and only isolate “Mass shootings” the difference is huge.  The difference is 3 TIMES… So where is the social outcry to legislate or ban alcohol? 

I would wager that the percentage of responsible gun owners verse responsible drinkers is heavily weighted to the gun owners. 

Just because a drunk driver doesn’t kill in mass, doesn’t make it any less serious of an issue. 
Please don’t get bogged down with political rhetoric.  Yes, we have issues, there are potential solutions.  But gun control isn’t the only issue in this country. 

[calfoxwc]

the left couldn't care less about suicides, for example. It isn't a hot button political power gain issue.

Suicide is a major national public health issue in the United States. In 2016, there were 44,965 recorded suicides, up from 42,773 in 2014, according to the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS).

***********************************

    I believe risky damaging behavior and social media are two major problems causing stress, depression, and percieved alienation. No moral compass, no principles or beliefs - only their own emotions guide them. not good.