I'm Convinced Freddie Is An IDIOT!!

[Orion]

5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 I had 9-7 with everything looking sunshine and roses.    6-10 more likely now

So you thought that we would beat the Titans and the Ram?   I didn't.

[Icecube]

8 hours ago, lodilobo said:

I hate to say it, but I don't think Kitchens is going anywhere. We have to hope he learns how to game plan and call plays. It is really frustrating to watch. Mayfield is getting killed with the garbage o line. A good coach would find ways to compensate for the pass rush, to some extent. I was looking forward to the game against Baltimore next week, but now I dread it. They have an excellent defense, but overrated. The game is winnable. They are not the dominating force they think they are.

When I saw them so far buried by KC, I would have agreed with you. But they came back and made it a game IN KC, and that ain't easy. I think the Ravens are tenacious, at least. I saw a lot of plays where Jackson was not up to task of throwing from the pocket on known passing downs, but he also still hit a few. I think Balt. will harass Baker much of the game unless the Browns get the rush going leading to play-action passes. They MUST get a rush going or it's gonna be a long day. 

 

But I do give Browns a chance, if the cookie crumbles in their favor. How many of their DBs will be back for this game?

[tiamat63]

48 minutes ago, Orion said:

So you thought that we would beat the Titans and the Ram?   I didn't.

Titans was a do-able game in my mind.   The Rams?   Defensively I thought we would make it interesting - which we did.     But that one was always leaning L as I saw it.

[Orion]

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

Titans was a do-able game in my mind. 

And mine.  But once Robinson kicked himself out of the game....and his backup got injured....and we had to screw our OL all up just to get 5 guys on the field, the game was no longer do-able.

I didn't think that we would beat the Titans.  We had a whole bunch of new pieces in place while the Titans came in as an experienced team.

[Westside Steve]

I've said before I have no beef with the draw play Sam Rutigliano and Brian Sipe used to run it with a lot of success because opposing defenses really had no idea if Brian was going to throw or not. It just didn't work this time.

To paraphrase Monty Python nobody expects the draw play. Well except for yesterday so there's that...

WSS

[Westside Steve]

1 minute ago, Westside Steve said:

I've said before I have no beef with the draw play Sam Rutigliano and Brian Sipe used to run it with a lot of success because opposing defenses really had no idea if Brian was going to throw or not. It just didn't work this time.

To paraphrase Monty Python nobody expects the draw play. Well except for yesterday so there's that...

WSS

Actually should have run Chubb three times and then pulled the draw play.

WSS

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

I've said before I have no beef with the draw play Sam Rutigliano and Brian Sipe used to run it with a lot of success because opposing defenses really had no idea if Brian was going to throw or not. It just didn't work this time.

To paraphrase Monty Python nobody expects the draw play. Well except for yesterday so there's that...

WSS

[Kvoethe]

Dump the shotgun...get baker under center and get chubb the ball when he is charging instead of flat footed back in the shotgun.  More play action under center is my request.

[htownbrown]

My problem is more with Baker than Freddie.  I think the chip fell off his shoulder for one, but he is also creating the pressure sometimes by moving out of the pocket to quickly.  Plus, this year a bootleg is almost a guaranteed incompletion. Night and day from last year.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

My problem is more with Baker than Freddie.  I think the chip fell off his shoulder for one, but he is also creating the pressure sometimes by moving out of the pocket to quickly.  Plus, this year a bootleg is almost a guaranteed incompletion. Night and day from last year.

Yea, I don't see it.  He was running for his life mostly, not moving out of the pocket too quickly.  If he had not moved, he would have been toast.  Not sure what game you watched.   In addition, I don't think the scheme of routes being run were very well designed to give him a chance to read the field after his initial read.   Way, way too many slow developing routes....which he had no time to allow to develop.

[htownbrown]

4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yea, I don't see it.  He was running for his life mostly, not moving out of the pocket too quickly.  If he had not moved, he would have been toast.  Not sure what game you watched.   In addition, I don't think the scheme of routes being run were very well designed to give him a chance to read the field after his initial read.   Way, way too many slow developing routes....which he had no time to allow to develop.

I didn't say every play, but it was obvious at times.  I suggest you rewatch.

[The Gipper]

30 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

I didn't say every play, but it was obvious at times.  I suggest you rewatch.

Well, I think you implied it was frequent.   But I don't think it was.  It was mostly warranted.  Oh, I can see how he could certainly have  gotten gun shy being under the pressure he was all night, but mostly I think his having to move was legit.

[Tour2ma]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

The season is going according to my prediction so far.  I have us at 9-7.

I was higher... 10-6 IIRC... but I thnk both of us were in the realm of realisitc...

... unlike many here...

... and they are the ones bitching the loudest.

7 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Which leads to the question: Who is doing the play calling/offensive game planning? Seems to me an OC has some responsibility in all this somewhere. I'm less impressed with the OC since I know already what Freddie did last year with it. Something is not firing on all 8 and I don't think it's all on Freddie.

Good question....

While I've no doubt that Freddie is having input into the gameplans, if it is mostly the OC's "product" then Freddie is calling off a sheet substantially not of his making. And that could be muddying the waters.

Not completely analogous... but remember when Pet ran the D in year 1? Remember year 2 when he did not, but had "input"?

[The Gipper]

I say the Browns go like 8-1 in their last 9 games.   A couple of tough ones, one of which they let slip by.   But, OK the next 4 are rough.  But I think they can split them.  Of course, all this is contingent on this offense gelling and getting more in sync, which I think it will.

[Dutch Oven]

Why the hell would Freddie bring in someone else to be the OC but then call his plays? 

Either run the offense completely Freddie, with your offensive plan and your playcalling, or have Mokken run the offensive side of the ball and call HIS plays. 

Because this offense does not resemble the offense of last season that got Freddie the job at all.  

[Dutch Oven]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I say the Browns go like 8-1 in their last 9 games.   A couple of tough ones, one of which they let slip by.   But, OK the next 4 are rough.  But I think they can split them.  Of course, all this is contingent on this offense gelling and getting more in sync, which I think it will.

Based on what? 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Based on what? 

Intuition, plus talent...plus strength of schedule  (far easier) plus a belief that they will gel and get their act together.

[Dutch Oven]

31 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Intuition, plus talent...plus strength of schedule  (far easier) plus a belief that they will gel and get their act together.

Hopefully you are right. 

But your prediction feels more like a "hope and a prayer" than anything, at this point. 

It still is early, though, but this has been a troubling start. 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I was higher... 10-6 IIRC... but I think both of us were in the realm of realistic...

... unlike many here...

... and they are the ones bitching the loudest.

Tour, I'm about ready to dub this stuff "Over Reaction Monday". We lose, it's fire the coach (already) and Baker sucks. We win, and it's "Super Bowl here we come". FWIW, I've tempered my expectations, 10-6 and a playoff berth would be nice. The next four games will tell the story.....  

Gotta fix the o-line somehow, or Baker won't finish out the season..... Took a quick look at the stats, and the long passes just weren't there, you can't throw bombs with only 2 seconds to throw, and that was a big part of Mayfield's game last year. 

[LBC mike]

he will not have time to throw this year.

[MDDawg]

21 hours ago, hx214 said:

Continues to call long route passing plays with his QB standing in his own Endzone against the best DT in the league

I don’t want to panic yet, but some of it is concerning 

That's the crap Hue used to do, I was ambivalent about the hire but I'm definitely  worried now.

[MDDawg]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Yea, I don't see it.  He was running for his life mostly, not moving out of the pocket too quickly.  If he had not moved, he would have been toast.  Not sure what game you watched.   In addition, I don't think the scheme of routes being run were very well designed to give him a chance to read the field after his initial read.   Way, way too many slow developing routes....which he had no time to allow to develop.

Baker's leading the NFL in escaping clean pockets this season. He looks like a completely different QB this year:

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1176205419380924416?s=20

[Dutch Oven]

14 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

Baker's leading the NFL in escaping clean pockets this season. He looks like a completely different QB this year:

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1176205419380924416?s=20

I think the best example of this was when he literally left a clean pocket, rolled right (of course) and ran right into a Rams DLineman for a sack. 

[beare]

They will get it together however if coaching decisions dont improve they will be lucky to be 8-8.

[Tour2ma]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Based on what? 

 

Us getting better from what I saw in the quote... which was basically: "If we're good enough to do what I say we're going to do, then we'll do what I say we are going to do."

[Tour2ma]

34 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

Baker's leading the NFL in escaping clean pockets this season. He looks like a completely different QB this year:

https://twitter.com/JohnKosko3/status/1176205419380924416?s=20

Wow... 12 in three games...

... but what really got me was the followup tweet.
 

Quote

John Kosko‏ @JohnKosko3

Baker did this just 18 times last season.

I guess the times they are achangin'...

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hopefully you are right. 

But your prediction feels more like a "hope and a prayer" than anything, at this point. 

It still is early, though, but this has been a troubling start. 

I don’t deny that that’s a big part of it. But it is also based on the fact that the teams we are playing are generally not considered to be anywhere near as good as the Los Angeles Rams we played fairly even with yesterday. 

[Canton Mike]

20 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Which leads to the question: Who is doing the play calling/offensive game planning? Seems to me an OC has some responsibility in all this somewhere. I'm less impressed with the OC since I know already what Freddie did last year with it. Something is not firing on all 8 and I don't think it's all on Freddie.

 

12 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I was higher... 10-6 IIRC... but I thnk both of us were in the realm of realisitc...

... unlike many here...

... and they are the ones bitching the loudest.

Good question....

While I've no doubt that Freddie is having input into the gameplans, if it is mostly the OC's "product" then Freddie is calling off a sheet substantially not of his making. And that could be muddying the waters.

Not completely analogous... but remember when Pet ran the D in year 1? Remember year 2 when he did not, but had "input"?

I was not a fan of the Monken (OC) hire & still am not, but that could change. It does appear that the "product" has substantially changed. Maybe we moved too quickly to a new offensive system? I also think we really miss Higgins & hope he can go this week.

I never make predictions, so I didn't guess at a record, but I still maintain that this team, with it's substantial roster turnover, needs to learn each others' strengths, weaknesses, & tendencies before gelling as a truly productive TEAM.

To SOME out there...3 games is just too damn soon to give up folks. GO BROWNS!!!

Mike

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, Canton Mike said:

To SOME out there...3 games is just too damn soon to give up folks. GO BROWNS!!!

Bingo!

We came out Week 1 and laid an egg at home.... pure and simple. We stunk up the joint (#2cliche'limit). It was a cold slap in the face... (damn... that's 3)....

Week 2 we played a good game on the road against a good team that was weakened by injury in Prime Time... and won.

Week 3 we played the defending NFC Champs essentially minus our entire 2ndary... at home... in Prime Time... held our own... but came up short (#4?). Could we have won it? Sure... but we aren't ready to win those kind of games.

Going to trot out #5 here... just for Dbone...

It's a process people...

You have to learn how to win in this league... and you do it by losing... and learning. I think we've already seen learning week to week. And while I do not expect a win in Week 4 (never did) I do expect to see even more learning.