ANYBODY WATCH UFC 100?

[Riffer X]

I'm a pretty big UFC fan, maybe not diehard but I appreciate it and it has overtaken boxing for me, with the exception of Kelly Pavlik.

 

Brock Lesnar is too damn big. I may add, he looks pretty juiced too. I thought Mir stood a chance because he's such a well rounded fighter, but the size diff was huge.

 

Glad to see St. Pierre is still plugging away, his ground game is tremendous right now.

 

Bisping has proven to be a guy who isn't as good as advertised. He won some controversial decisions he probably didn't deserve and then got wacked by old man Henderson.

 

Bonnar is done in the UFC, another old man in Coleman took that one too.

 

Somehow, someway, they gotta make a Fedor--Lesnar fight happen.

[LCDawgFan13]

I'm a pretty big UFC fan, maybe not diehard but I appreciate it and it has overtaken boxing for me, with the exception of Kelly Pavlik.

 

Brock Lesnar is too damn big. I may add, he looks pretty juiced too. I thought Mir stood a chance because he's such a well rounded fighter, but the size diff was huge.

 

Glad to see St. Pierre is still plugging away, his ground game is tremendous right now.

 

Bisping has proven to be a guy who isn't as good as advertised. He won some controversial decisions he probably didn't deserve and then got wacked by old man Henderson.

 

Bonnar is done in the UFC, another old man in Coleman took that one too.

 

Somehow, someway, they gotta make a Fedor--Lesnar fight happen.

 

I agree on your thoughts about UFC overtaking boxing and about Kelly Pavlik, and about Bisping and Bonnar. But Brock Lesnar has been that big for a long time. He is truely a freak of nature in regard to his size. He is not juicing. He has never failed a drug test. He has given no reason tto maked anyone thing he is using PED's. The only shocker to me in that fight was that Mir got out of the first round alive. Lesnar is a fast lerner. He knew that he lost the first time around by his own mistake. That was not happening again. He neutralized Mir's assets and controlled the fight from start. The Fedor and Lesnar fight will happen...eventually. Also...I am disappointed that St. Pierre won that fight. I can't stand that guy. I do respect him though, as a fighter. He is definitely a great fighter. But, I can't wait to see Anderson Silva get his hands on him though.

[hammertime]

MMA rocks.

 

They have to find a way for all the fighters in all the leagues to face each other.

 

Unify the titles.

[Riffer X]

MMA rocks.

 

They have to find a way for all the fighters in all the leagues to face each other.

 

Unify the titles.

 

There's not that many leagues anymore. It's pretty much the UFC a the top.

[Guest AdaM]

There's not that many leagues anymore. It's pretty much the UFC a the top.

 

 

UFC IS the league. The others like pride are just.... aaa baseball basically.

[LCDawgFan13]

UFC IS the league. The others like pride are just.... aaa baseball basically.

 

Pride was bought out by UFC and PRIDE fighters the UFC actually wanted, like Dan Henderson, are now part of UFC. WEC is also owned by UFC. Affliction and Strikeforce are about the bigges competition for the UFC and they don't even begin to compair...with the exception of Fedor!

[ClevelandFanForLife]

Brock Lesnar is too damn big. I may add, he looks pretty juiced too. I thought Mir stood a chance because he's such a well rounded fighter, but the size diff was huge.

lesner is an absolutely horrible fighter. he barely has any skill at all. his game is just to use his brute strength and beat the hell out of the guy. if he ever meets a guy around his weight that can actually fight he will get his ass kicked.

 

he definitely used steroids at one time although i don't think he is now. you would have to be an idiot to do roids in any sport this day in age. the fact is, without his chemically induced size, he is nothing.

[Guest AdaM]

lesner is an absolutely horrible fighter. he barely has any skill at all. his game is just to use his brute strength and beat the hell out of the guy. if he ever meets a guy around his weight that can actually fight he will get his ass kicked.

 

he definitely used steroids at one time although i don't think he is now. you would have to be an idiot to do roids in any sport this day in age. the fact is, without his chemically induced size, he is nothing.

 

 

He's not and never has been on roids. The NCAA tests, UFC tests, he's been that big since like 11th grade.

[osusev]

Lesnar fought a too old Randy Coutour and Over rated Frank Mir... Mir is not an elite heavy wieght. I will be more impressed when he fights some heavy weights that are experienced and in their prime.

 

Fedor is a KO artist but Josh Barnett is a SERIOUS challenge in size/experience/skill set. Arlovoski looked really good against a slow Fedor and I think really Fedor was lucky he caught Arlovski jumping in when Fedor was dazed.

 

there are some very good heavy weights out there that will pose a serious threat like Overreem,Carwin,Barnett,Arlovski,Gonzaga etc.

 

I will believe the Hype once he fights another fighter more in his prime and similar size.

[Riffer X]

Lesnar fought a too old Randy Coutour and Over rated Frank Mir... Mir is not an elite heavy wieght. I will be more impressed when he fights some heavy weights that are experienced and in their prime.

 

Fedor is a KO artist but Josh Barnett is a SERIOUS challenge in size/experience/skill set. Arlovoski looked really good against a slow Fedor and I think really Fedor was lucky he caught Arlovski jumping in when Fedor was dazed.

 

there are some very good heavy weights out there that will pose a serious threat like Overreem,Carwin,Barnett,Arlovski,Gonzaga etc.

 

I will believe the Hype once he fights another fighter more in his prime and similar size.

 

Frank Mir is a very elite heavy. Probably the best Ju ju guys and has been very formidable with stand up.

[hammertime]

The UFC was looking for a big name with Lesnar, it may backfire on them though.

 

Someone with size and good ground skills will take Lesnar down. It depends who the UFC 'lets' him fight.

[osusev]

Riffer I agree that Mir is an elite Heavy weight jiu jitsu specialist, however I dont think IMHO that he is an overall elite heavy weight. Not anymore, the game has changed and his striking/wrestling skills are not up to par with the Likes of Barnett and company.

 

I see the UFC now as a crooked boxing organization, I love them yet I hate them. The comment about Bout matching is on the money, for all intensive purposes the Fertitta's and White can Create champions and are doing so.

 

GSP was caught cheating..... yet NOTHING happened. I think GSP is god awful talented and really does not have any weaknesses but a litmus test of the validity of the organization was failed. They just are not Headlining him until time makes fans forget and not care, that is why he was a undercard in the Brock Lesnar show.

 

I am pulling for Josh Barnett a former UFC champion to beat Fedor because I still think Fedor was Lucky against, Hong Man Choy and Arlovski. IF Fedor is beat that will create a definate Paradox with another promotion/league which is good for fighters. Alistair Overreem is another scary talented heavy weight locked up in another division.

 

I am not really on the side of the UFC here more on the side that gives Fighters options so the UFC has to pay them better and compete for talent. Fighters will be treated like Cattle unless other organizations are around to keep each other honest.

 

Look at Brock lesnar..... Shane Carwin is a giant at 6-3 265 pounds and he is 11-0...... Brock had less than 3 fights one a loss and he got to fight for the championship? Its marketing BS from his WWE career pulling over their fans. There are fighters who it takes YEARS of fights just to get into a qaulifying fight let alone a shot at the title.

 

This is not denigrating the mountain that is Lesnar, I just think couture and Mir were tailored made openents for him to win. Heath Herring has never been an elite Heavy weight just a middle talent, Brock is a Created Champion not a true fighter who earned it.

 

Had he gone thru Carwin/Gonzaga/Slyvia/Arlovski any two of them or a myriad of other Heavy weights I could believe the hype but mysteriously he was never matched with them. He may be the next great thing but IMHO he has yet to earn the marketing hype. Dana White is pulling a Don King promoting another Scary Monster and insuring good matchups until Brock has enough experience to be a true champion.

 

[Riffer X]

Good post Sev and I agree with a lot of it. I think anytime there are only a few big fights every month or so it's going to create issues with people being upset with said pairings. It's the nature of the beast.

 

This may sound goofy, but I think Lesnar gets a pass because of his big time wrestling experience. Don't forget that not only was he a pro wrestler with a known name, he was an NCAA Champ just like Buckeye Kevin Randleman and one other guy I forget who also held a heavy belt at one time......I think it was Coleman.....

 

Dana is not stupid, and right now he is creating a marketing monster with Lesnar. I almost guarantee that Lesnar is a nice guy but is putting on a show. It may be a little experiment, who knows.

[Honest_Abe]

It was mark coleman that also wrestled at OSU. I agree with sev about the ufc giving brock good match ups for his style and skillset at the moment. I think he would have some trouble if they put him with a good striker/kickboxer who can peppper him up a little bit from the outside. I think that now is the time to beat lesnar. After he gets some more fighting experience and steps up his stand up game he is gonna be a monster.

 

Great post sev. I agree 100% about everything you pointed out about the ufc's organization especially the way the treat the fighters. Frank Mir has been around the ufc for a long time and for headlining ufc 100 he got payed either 40k or 45k i don't remember exactly. Lesnar made 400k. There really needs to be some competing organizations.

[Thaak]

lesner is an absolutely horrible fighter. he barely has any skill at all. his game is just to use his brute strength and beat the hell out of the guy. if he ever meets a guy around his weight that can actually fight he will get his ass kicked.

 

he definitely used steroids at one time although i don't think he is now. you would have to be an idiot to do roids in any sport this day in age. the fact is, without his chemically induced size, he is nothing.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. His wrestling is, bar none, one of the best in the world no matter MMA, Wrestling, what have you. Did you see how he used his wrestling to keep Mir from doing anything from the bottom?

 

Strong guys can do well, but they are average at best unless they have some skill behind that strength.

 

[greg]

You don't know what you are talking about. His wrestling is, bar none, one of the best in the world no matter MMA, Wrestling, what have you. Did you see how he used his wrestling to keep Mir from doing anything from the bottom?

 

Strong guys can do well, but they are average at best unless they have some skill behind that strength.

Actually he does know what he's talking about Thaak cuz it's MMA, not NCAA wrestling. Huge men laying atop much smaller men w/ a rape choke in place (and one w/ thumb on Adam's apple is undoubtedly as cheap as they come), pinning down far-side arms while trapping their head in your arm pit, and oafishly bashing them in the skull--while effective in this case--is far from what I consider "skillful".

 

Like his huge hammerfists, his cheap shotting to the neck/throat/nose/eyes/ears and back of head may make you look bad, maybe even like hamburger, but it's not skillful by any stretch of the imagination. His bull-charging tactics are for straight amateurs and he's lucky he's huge--he cuts weight to make 265 btw--cuz when he inevitably faces someone equally humongous w/ legit strikes or jitz he's curtains.

 

sev the UFC didn't specifically arrange those matchups for Lesnar, Couture and Mir were the current belt holders, but I do agree they were good opponents for Lesnar. It was just coincidence though and he still beat both belt holders so you can't ignore the results. Also to comment on what you also wrote Lesnar would absolutely annihilate Tim "Stilts" Sylvia and Overeem would be much too small to give Lesnar any kind of trouble, he'd bull rush them both, ride them, and oafishly bludgeon them both to ref Tko as well. Probably same for Arlovski too, Brock has at least 30 lbs advantage on him too. I don't even know if Fedor is big enough but my $'s on him anyway, predicting he'd step within range quickly and score the KO, like he somehow always does. If you can stuff the takedown/bull rush long enough to slip inside you can score on his huge, fat head.

[greg]

Frank Mir has been around the ufc for a long time and for headlining ufc 100 he got payed either 40k or 45k i don't remember exactly. Lesnar made 400k. There really needs to be some competing organizations.

I've seen it printed several places that Lesnar made over 3M for that fight, which makes it even worse. Mir seriously needs to promote himself better if that's really all he made. For UFC 100 I find that hard to believe and haven't heard of pay that low for fighters in a while, much less for the main event.

[listercat]

It was a good card; Lister Jr and I watched it again last night. Lesnar is a complete jerk / showman and I will assure you that Fedor will kick the living crap out of him

 

GSP is simply incredible

[greg]

Sumo vs Bruce Lee was cool back in the mid-90's of UFC but they are currently attempting to evolve the sport beyond the brawling beasts who can dominate simply due to immense size alone.

 

I'd love to see a 240lb-ish weight class put in there. That would allow skilled fighters like Cro-Cop and Mir to fluorish while matching Lesnar up against much more suitable opponents.

 

Mir suffered the same fate as BJ Penn when he challenged GSP...just a little too small for the elite level that now exists in the upper-echelons. BJ could probably mop most of the rest of the welterweight division but with these guys weighing in the day before the fight and cutting 10, 20, even 30 pounds or more in cases there is a limit to how much size skill can overcome.

 

Btw, anybody want a good link so they don't have to buy?

[ClevelandFanForLife]

He's not and never has been on roids. The NCAA tests, UFC tests, he's been that big since like 11th grade.

how about the wwe? vince mcmahon spoon feeds those guys roids

[Guest AdaM]

how about the wwe? vince mcmahon spoon feeds those guys roids

 

 

Well considering he looks the same Pre WWE as post, what's your point?

[Guest AdaM]

Well considering he looks the same Pre WWE as post, what's your point?

 

 

Lesnar just has WAY more neanderthal genes left in him than most people. He's probably more closely related to a gorilla than say.. he is to John Clayton.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

Well considering he looks the same Pre WWE as post, what's your point?

my point is that he relies on brute strength from his chemically altered body. maybe i'm just biased because he is an asshole but i can't stand the guy.

[LCDawgFan13]

Actually he does know what he's talking about Thaak cuz it's MMA, not NCAA wrestling. Huge men laying atop much smaller men w/ a rape choke in place (and one w/ thumb on Adam's apple is undoubtedly as cheap as they come), pinning down far-side arms while trapping their head in your arm pit, and oafishly bashing them in the skull--while effective in this case--is far from what I consider "skillful".

 

Like his huge hammerfists, his cheap shotting to the neck/throat/nose/eyes/ears and back of head may make you look bad, maybe even like hamburger, but it's not skillful by any stretch of the imagination. His bull-charging tactics are for straight amateurs and he's lucky he's huge--he cuts weight to make 265 btw--cuz when he inevitably faces someone equally humongous w/ legit strikes or jitz he's curtains.

 

sev the UFC didn't specifically arrange those matchups for Lesnar, Couture and Mir were the current belt holders, but I do agree they were good opponents for Lesnar. It was just coincidence though and he still beat both belt holders so you can't ignore the results. Also to comment on what you also wrote Lesnar would absolutely annihilate Tim "Stilts" Sylvia and Overeem would be much too small to give Lesnar any kind of trouble, he'd bull rush them both, ride them, and oafishly bludgeon them both to ref Tko as well. Probably same for Arlovski too, Brock has at least 30 lbs advantage on him too. I don't even know if Fedor is big enough but my $'s on him anyway, predicting he'd step within range quickly and score the KO, like he somehow always does. If you can stuff the takedown/bull rush long enough to slip inside you can score on his huge, fat head.

 

Actually, Greg, Thaak is correct and you and ClevelandFan apparently know nothing about the sport. UFC is MMA...you know that it stands for Mixed Martial Arts. Not just one discipline...but a mixture of all disciplines. Wrestling is one of those disciplines. I don't here anyone bitching because all Frank Mir does is to try and submit people with his Ju jitsu. And nobody complains about the Iceman throwing wild haymakers. They both win fights with the skills that they know best. Just like Brock Lesnar. He is a wrestler...one of the best wrestlers around. He also was blessed with crazy size and strength. People need to quit hating on him for being what he is. He went and did exactly what anyone else would have done (during the fight...post-fight was rediculous) and used HIS skills to win the championship. No different than when Frank Mir used HIS skills to tap out Lesnar in the first fight. All he did the entire fight was to keep trying for a submission. In a recent article, today on yahoo, Randy Couture came right out and admitted that Lesnar is very skilled and keeps getting better. He also said that Fedor will have trouble with him and needs to avoid allowing Lesnar to take him down. When "The Natural" says things like that, you gotta know that the guy is for real!

 

[greg]

Actually, Greg, Thaak is correct and you and ClevelandFan apparently know nothing about the sport. UFC is MMA...you know that it stands for Mixed Martial Arts. Not just one discipline...but a mixture of all disciplines. Wrestling is one of those disciplines. I don't here anyone bitching because all Frank Mir does is to try and submit people with his Ju jitsu. And nobody complains about the Iceman throwing wild haymakers. They both win fights with the skills that they know best. Just like Brock Lesnar. He is a wrestler...one of the best wrestlers around. He also was blessed with crazy size and strength. People need to quit hating on him for being what he is. He went and did exactly what anyone else would have done (during the fight...post-fight was rediculous) and used HIS skills to win the championship. No different than when Frank Mir used HIS skills to tap out Lesnar in the first fight. All he did the entire fight was to keep trying for a submission. In a recent article, today on yahoo, Randy Couture came right out and admitted that Lesnar is very skilled and keeps getting better. He also said that Fedor will have trouble with him and needs to avoid allowing Lesnar to take him down. When "The Natural" says things like that, you gotta know that the guy is for real!

Oh please, educate us!

Lesnar will get dealt with as soon as a skilled heavyweight his size contends. It is reminiscent of how back in the day Royce was extremely dominant using his gi but without its advantage he was quickly exposed and dealt with. Get it? Once Lesnars size and power is matched/negated he's cannonfodder, NCAA amateur wrestling pedigree or not.

 

I never denied the results, and sure I'll grant that Lesnar has a superb bullrush and a violent takedown but so did Koscheck. Would Koscheck have been as successful had he not added other tools to his toolbox? What about if the division was 60+lbs from top to bottom? I think everything I said in previous posts possibly just went over your head. To summarize what you missed we were saying: Lesnar is a beast, opponents weren't his size, and while he may have skills at wrestling and takedowns his skills as a fighter are rudimentary at best.

 

Maybe my beef is that the heavyweight division is too big and hurts the chances of a lot of guys who weigh somewhere in the middle of the pack. If this is ever addressed you will see what I'm referring to with Lesnar.

 

PS Mir's subs and over-hand rights courtesy Chuck Liddell stop fights, why would anyone bitch about that? You apparently prefer referee tko's though huh? What about the early days of the UFC, when there were less rules and it was legal for Keith Hackney to strike Joe Son in the nads 20 or 30 times for the win? Did you like that too? Or how about the eye gouges and throat punches? All's fair in the sport of MMA, right?

How much do you really know about what you're talking about LCD, or are you just coming after me because I dared to politely ask you a question? I don't need Randy Couture to validate my MMA opinions, but it's cool that his comments supported my advice on how Fedor could beat Lesnar.

[LCDawgFan13]

Oh please, educate us!

Lesnar will get dealt with as soon as a skilled heavyweight his size contends. It is reminiscent of how back in the day Royce was extremely dominant using his gi but without its advantage he was quickly exposed and dealt with. Get it? Once Lesnars size and power is matched/negated he's cannonfodder, NCAA amateur wrestling pedigree or not.

 

I never denied the results, and sure I'll grant that Lesnar has a superb bullrush and a violent takedown but so did Koscheck. Would Koscheck have been as successful had he not added other tools to his toolbox? What about if the division was 60+lbs from top to bottom? I think everything I said in previous posts possibly just went over your head. To summarize what you missed we were saying: Lesnar is a beast, opponents weren't his size, and while he may have skills at wrestling and takedowns his skills as a fighter are rudimentary at best.

 

Maybe my beef is that the heavyweight division is too big and hurts the chances of a lot of guys who weigh somewhere in the middle of the pack. If this is ever addressed you will see what I'm referring to with Lesnar.

 

PS Mir's subs and over-hand rights courtesy Chuck Liddell stop fights, why would anyone bitch about that? You apparently prefer referee tko's though huh? What about the early days, when there were less rules and it was legal for Keith Hackney to strike Joe Son in the nads 20 or 30 times for the win? Did you like that too? Or how about the eye gouges and throat punches? All's fair in the sport of MMA, right?

How much do you really know about what you're talking about LCD, or are you just coming after me because I dared to politely ask you a question? I don't need Randy Couture to validate my MMA opinions, but it's cool that his comments supported my advice on how Fedor could beat Lesnar.

 

I don't think you and I are totally disagreeing here. My beef is that people like Clevelandfan are not giving Lesnar any credit at all. What I am saying is that wrestling is just as much a discipline in this sport as anything else. Lesnar should not be faulted for using his skills and his size/strength to his advantage just as Liddell uses his punching power to his advantage and Mir uses his submissions to his advantage. You completely missed my point. I did not say that you should be bitching about Mir or Liddell. I simply was stating that you shouldn't be bitching about Lesnar either. I understand your beef about the weight difference and I agree that another class could be added there. But, until it is added and/or until someone does challenge Lesnar, why dog the guy for winning fights?

 

 

[greg]

I don't think you and I are totally disagreeing here. My beef is that people like Clevelandfan are not giving Lesnar any credit at all. What I am saying is that wrestling is just as much a discipline in this sport as anything else. Lesnar should not be faulted for using his skills and his size/strength to his advantage just as Liddell uses his punching power to his advantage and Mir uses his submissions to his advantage. You completely missed my point. I did not say that you should be bitching about Mir or Liddell. I simply was stating that you shouldn't be bitching about Lesnar either. I understand your beef about the weight difference and I agree that another class could be added there. But, until it is added and/or until someone does challenge Lesnar, why dog the guy for winning fights?

Because of the fashion in which he is winning them.

 

A huge man laying on top of his opponent and using a rape choke (to disguise the fact you're pressing on the guys windpipe) then proceeds to use his enormous body mass to pin Mir down and with brute force trap one of his arms behind his head. Then, also using your bodyweight and long arms you pin his head underneath you in a stationary position and proceed to club him in the face until the ref jumps in. A purely genetic win, very little skill involved whatsoever. There were some sneaky moves utilized and some definite game-planning but it was far from impressive, skill-wise.

 

He is doing a great job at being everything the UFC is attempting to separate itself from. They despise repeated blows to the head that don't induce KO's, in fact that was Dana's defense against why UFC is safer than boxing. No one has ever been worried about their windpipe being collapsed by their opponent. The distraction this served while possibly causing permanent damage masked Brock's ability to get into position to pin Mir's arm. Most people use the "punch-pass" method, Lesnar used the "this mofo doesn't know if I'm gonna crush his throat or not " style, evident by Mir's expression. Rape chokes are legal to hold a person in place but after Lesnar's "throat liberties" the Nevada State Athletic Commission will probably review the rules on it further to protect the fighters more. No one has ever done that before, throat chokes/strikes are illegal but for one day Brock found a loophole. It was a desperation move, just like when he used hammerfists from 6" away to try to finish Couture. He gets in there and essentially draws upon size, brute strength, and wrestling instincts.

 

I don't care who you are, a kneeling hammerfist from Zeus himself wouldn't KO my 125lb niece. At the UFC Championship levels screw all the moves that only inflict damage and focus on the ones that stop fights. In four fights Brock has yet to earn a single style point from me. He's a basic bull rush brawling slugger and he only gets away with it because he's gigantic. The fact that he has huge canned hams as fists and cannot figure out how to knock someone out is pretty disappointing. The guy has a long, long way to go before he'll have me convinced he's legit.

 

To deny that wrestling is a dominant base in MMA would ignore nearly half the fighters currently in the UFC...but name one that still exists with it being their only skill-set. Here's a few great hybrids:Clay Guida, Tyson Griffin, Kurt Pelligrino, Josh Koscheck, Matt Hamill, Rashad Evans, Urijah Faber, Tank Abbott, Babalu Sobral, Joe Stevenson, Diego Sanchez, Dan Severn, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Randy Couture, Mark Coleman, Dan Henderson...

Now, where would any of them be today without their crosstraining?

[Thaak]

Because of the fashion in which he is winning them.

 

A huge man laying on top of his opponent and using a rape choke (to disguise the fact you're pressing on the guys windpipe) then proceeds to use his enormous body mass to pin Mir down and with brute force trap one of his arms behind his head. Then, also using your bodyweight and long arms you pin his head underneath you in a stationary position and proceed to club him in the face until the ref jumps in. A purely genetic win, very little skill involved whatsoever. There were some sneaky moves utilized and some definite game-planning but it was far from impressive, skill-wise.

 

He is doing a great job at being everything the UFC is attempting to separate itself from. They despise repeated blows to the head that don't induce KO's, in fact that was Dana's defense against why UFC is safer than boxing. No one has ever been worried about their windpipe being collapsed by their opponent. The distraction this served while possibly causing permanent damage masked Brock's ability to get into position to pin Mir's arm. Most people use the "punch-pass" method, Lesnar used the "this mofo doesn't know if I'm gonna crush his throat or not " style, evident by Mir's expression. Rape chokes are legal to hold a person in place but after Lesnar's "throat liberties" the Nevada State Athletic Commission will probably review the rules on it further to protect the fighters more. No one has ever done that before, throat chokes/strikes are illegal but for one day Brock found a loophole. It was a desperation move, just like when he used hammerfists from 6" away to try to finish Couture. He gets in there and essentially draws upon size, brute strength, and wrestling instincts.

 

I don't care who you are, a kneeling hammerfist from Zeus himself wouldn't KO my 125lb niece. At the UFC Championship levels screw all the moves that only inflict damage and focus on the ones that stop fights. In four fights Brock has yet to earn a single style point from me. He's a basic bull rush brawling slugger and he only gets away with it because he's gigantic. The fact that he has huge canned hams as fists and cannot figure out how to knock someone out is pretty disappointing. The guy has a long, long way to go before he'll have me convinced he's legit.

 

To deny that wrestling is a dominant base in MMA would ignore nearly half the fighters currently in the UFC...but name one that still exists with it being their only skill-set. Here's a few great hybrids:Clay Guida, Tyson Griffin, Kurt Pelligrino, Josh Koscheck, Matt Hamill, Rashad Evans, Urijah Faber, Tank Abbott, Babalu Sobral, Joe Stevenson, Diego Sanchez, Dan Severn, Chuck Liddell, Matt Hughes, Randy Couture, Mark Coleman...

Now, where would any of them be today without their crosstraining?

 

 

I suppose Lesnars win over that striker guy he fought just after losing to Mir didn't show he can strike, even a little? He hit the guy in the face so hard he tumbled him over backwards into the fence.

 

GSP has recently started doing almost nothing but wrestling too. He beat Koschek at his own game. But his last few fights have been far from dynamic excitement. No huge knock outs. But he did completely dominate.

 

Lesner completely dominated Mir. And if you think all he did was lay on top of Mir... then you don't know a thing about Wrestling. I wrestled in HS... so I know a thing or two about it.

 

All ground-and-pounders (a typical "finishing" style most often used by wrestlers who are typically neither excellent strikers nor excellent submitters) have learned out to avoid submissions by keeping elbows in, posturing up, and not allowing any of their limbs to become over extended when the ju jitsu guy's hips are rotated either right or left while their foot is on the wrestlers hip.

 

Lesner is learning how to do that.

 

Mir also was the first guy to score a KO of Minotauro. That's pretty impressive, especially from a guy who wasn't previously known as a striker. He's worked a TON on his striking (Nick Diaz also shocked the world about 6 or 7 years ago against Robby Lawler) and it showed. Minotauro, by the way, has won a few matches by KO as well (over strikers.) So the fact that Lesner was able to not only avoid Mir's striking, take him down easily, and essentially control Mir while on the ground, was quite impressive. Flashy? No. But all the same, impressive.

 

Lesner used a nice wrestling base and sprawl while on the ground to keep Mir from being able to reverse or turn him. The idea is to create a tripod with your toes or knees (with legs spread relatively wide for both) and the center of your chest or breast bone.

 

Additionally, Lesner did something in the cage that I'd not seen in MMA before. He used a kinda inverted half-nelson (which sorta looked like a full nelson with one arm) to crank Mir's neck forward giving him no room to avoid Lesner's punches, and put his ham fist into the opposite underarm. He kept Mir from blocking those punches with his hand or at least absorbing some of the punishment when the back of Mir's own hand hit him in the face. That was kinda neat, seeing a unique technique like that.

 

You want to say that all he is, is a ham-fisted brawler who lunges forward and uses his size and strength to defeat his opponents, but that he has no actual skill?

 

I say so what?! He has beaten the best at HW that's out there. Gonzaga has to prove he can actually win again before he'll get another title shot. Arlovsky is done. He's a middle of the pack fighter, because he's scared to get in there and actually fight after Sylvia knocked him out. By the way, back when Sylvia actually would fight to win instead of not to lose, Mir broke his arm with an arm bar (also was before Mir broke his femur in a motorcycle accident). That was sick!

 

I've watched MMA religiously since it started back in the early to mid 90's. I've watched it develop into a smattering of different styles to a bunch of hybrid styles to a single style basically considered MMA, where each fighter learns 4 different techniques/styles and uses a particular base style to fight from. Wrestling, Boxing, Muay Thai, and Ju Jitsu. Every once in awhile you see a guy like Lyoto Machida who comes in with a slightly different base style of striking (Karate) or Karo Parisyan with grappling (Judo).

 

I also have wrestled, been in the army, learned the basics of Fencing, and gained my black belt in Karate.

 

I am an informed fan of not just MMA and the UFC, but of the technical aspects of MMA.

 

So trust me, when I tell you that Lesner is scary, and will continue to be until someone can match his size, strength, and speed. He is scary fast for a man his size.

[Vegasdogg]

Fedor will end Lesner.

[Honest_Abe]

Fedor will end Lesner.

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