What to make of a win or loss this weekend.

[jiggins7919]

Sooo...I've seen a lot of posts on Twitter and read a lot of articles saying that the Browns need to at least play well to be taken seriously and further that Baker has to prove he can play at a high level against the big boys. Let's look into this a bit more and discuss a few scenarios. 

A Loss - not as much fun to talk about, which is why I'm saving the fun stuff for the end. I'm in the perceived minority here in that I don't think a loss tells us anything. Heck, I don't even think losing BADLY tells us what many people think it will. Why? Because teams have bad games. QBs have bad days. Defenses have poor showings, and on and on. I saw this same Titans team get absolutely BOAT-RACED by a bad, albeit feisty, Bengals team. Do you hear anyone saying Tannehill's job is on the line next year? That Tennessee won't extend him? That he can't play with the big boys? 

No, you don't. "But Jiggins! Tannehill beat the Colts!" Yeah, that's right. And he also lost to them this year, and WE beat the Colts, too. Anyone hear any praise for Baker beating them? Nope. So we lose. We shit the sheets. Nothing works and we can't stop them. It hurts, it's frustrating, and we hoped for more. But never forget that we're BUILDING something here. Teams like the Titans are a year in front of us. Wait until you see US next year. 

The only real negative about losing is the obvious hit to the record and the media onslaught that will inevitably arrive. It'll be fierce and largely unfair, but we won't care. Our coach won't care, and our players will move on to the next game like we have after our other losses. We respond very well to losses which I admire. 

Now, let's talk about the fun stuff. What if we WIN? It's not a fantasy, not really. The Titans are like looking in a mirror. If we somehow pull out a victory, regardless of how, our season expectations take a WILD turn toward the unthinkable. We're not just hoping to get INTO the playoffs, we're now thinking about how far we're going. Do YOU want to play a ball control offense in the freezing weather with Myles Garrett lurking around? Uh, no. 

There's also the Baker Mayfield saga. If he plays well, it will go a long way to establishing him as the guy. I've been saying he'll be our QB for a while now, but there's still some hesitation from fans and pundits that will dissipate after time. He's going to be around for years. Book it. 

Now for the not so fun stuff. I don't think we're going to win. I've got a pretty good grasp of the team and I've been wrong twice this year. I ALMOST changed my mind when I saw Taki came back, and while I don't love Taki, he is our only run defender other than Myles who can make a stick. 

What's the bottom line? Ignore these false narratives created by the damn media. This is literally just another game in a long schedule. Sure, it'd be terrific to win for a cascade of reasons, but it's not do or die whatsoever. Not for the season, not for our QB. I can pretty much promise you that the Titans aren't worried about us. They gave us quite the shalacking last year and set the tone for a disastrous year. They aren't afraid of us at all. Perhaps that plays into an advantage for us because we are different. I just hope we prove it. 

 

[TexasAg1969]

You can bet their HC takes an 8-3 team as serious as a heart attack. They will be prepared.

[TypicalBrowns50]

I just think the Titans are objectively slightly better than us. Better more physical players mostly across the board.

Rb is a push. I’d say our O line is better by a small margin and D line is better. I can’t say we are better anywhere else. Maybe that will make the difference in the game. We win in the trenches ! Sucks not having Denzel 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

This is literally just another game in a long schedule. Sure, it'd be terrific to win for a cascade of reasons, but it's not do or die whatsoever.

Correct!

But if we lose then next week is almost a must win.  We might need to have less than 6 losses.

[SdBacker80]

 I think I’m done getting upset over a 2 point win over a 1 win team or struggling with a Eagle or Texan team.  They aren’t super bowl contenders this season. They can’t go toe to toe with the elite or even the very good teams.  They could pull out one but three in a row in January?  Nope.  And that’s okay I think they will get closer next year.

A win tomorrow? 
A win pretty much locks up a playoff birth and We haven’t witnessed the playoffs in 18 years.  A massively important step for this franchise even if they get boat raced in the playoffs.  

   

[jiggins7919]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

 I think I’m done getting upset over a 2 point win over a 1 win team or struggling with a Eagle or Texan team.  They aren’t super bowl contenders this season. They can’t go toe to toe with the elite or even the very good teams.  They could pull out one but three in a row in January?  Nope.  And that’s okay I think they will get closer next year.

A win tomorrow? 
A win pretty much locks up a playoff birth and We haven’t witnessed the playoffs in 18 years.  A massively important step for this franchise even if they get boat raced in the playoffs.  

   

So very true. I'm watching much better football and I finally have a team and coach I can get behind. Not only that, I believe in our front office too. Good things cometh...finally. 

[Sevenfeet]

4 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

I just think the Titans are objectively slightly better than us. Better more physical players mostly across the board.

Rb is a push. I’d say our O line is better by a small margin and D line is better. I can’t say we are better anywhere else. Maybe that will make the difference in the game. We win in the trenches ! Sucks not having Denzel 

A lot has been said that the Browns haven't had many wins against quality teams. That being said, 8 wins at week 12 is still 8 wins in the NFL.

On paper, the running games are a push. But I'll still take Derrick Henry any day of the week.

Our O-line is very banged up. We're on our third left tackle. Our center plays hurt. Saffold at guard is great...when he's on the field. Nate Davis is better at the other guard than last year. Kelly is a quality piece at RT but Jack Conklin was better when he played in Nashville (Kelly was his backup).

Our D-line has had its problems but continues to improve, even without some splash players that never materialized for us. We still don't have a good edge rush. Jeffrey Simmons is one to look at for in the middle....he's a wrecking ball.

Our secondary has had to learn not to get torched after having a better last year and have made some improvement in recent weeks.  Still, our fastest corner hasn't seen the field all year due to an unknown knee injury.

Mayfield is good but Tannehill is better. And our receivers are better.

[SdBacker80]

34 minutes ago, Sevenfeet said:

A lot has been said that the Browns haven't had many wins against quality teams. That being said, 8 wins at week 12 is still 8 wins in the NFL.

On paper, the running games are a push. But I'll still take Derrick Henry any day of the week.

Our O-line is very banged up. We're on our third left tackle. Our center plays hurt. Saffold at guard is great...when he's on the field. Nate Davis is better at the other guard than last year. Kelly is a quality piece at RT but Jack Conklin was better when he played in Nashville (Kelly was his backup).

Our D-line has had its problems but continues to improve, even without some splash players that never materialized for us. We still don't have a good edge rush. Jeffrey Simmons is one to look at for in the middle....he's a wrecking ball.

Our secondary has had to learn not to get torched after having a better last year and have made some improvement in recent weeks.  Still, our fastest corner hasn't seen the field all year due to an unknown knee injury.

Mayfield is good but Tannehill is better. And our receivers are better.

D Henry is the better open field runner and that’s saying a lot because Chubb is good there too.  A little better on the goalline too.  When Henry has a hole and is untouched at the second level- good luck. But I like Chubb a bit better because he can go East/west and even cutback when the blocking isn’t perfect which I think represents most runs.  Im a Kamara fan though the guy has too much wiggle on the perimeter and a home run threat every time. 
 

The game tomorrow is about matchups.  Our QB is better than your QB is just academic  
 

The Browns and Titans are going to sell out to stop the run in the first half. The team that hits the play action opportunities is going to take the lead going into half.  AJ Brown scares me. Flip side, WE NEED BAKER to hit on his opportunities.  Browns need to be close otherwise I fear the Raven game play calling and then all the Baker throws into coverage.  
 

 If it’s close second half is going to be man ball time.  Browns OL vs Titan DL.   I think we can do damage here.  Titans OL vs Browns DL.  Depends on how bad Tannehill makes us think about play action.  If he’s hurting us here-  he’s capable of course- D Henry is going to have room to run. 
 

31-20 Titans tomorrow.  24-20 and then a  Late TD drive by Titans to seal the the game.  
Id love to be wrong - I hope I’m wrong 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Sevenfeet said:

A lot has been said that the Browns haven't had many wins against quality teams. That being said, 8 wins at week 12 is still 8 wins in the NFL.

On paper, the running games are a push. But I'll still take Derrick Henry any day of the week.

Our O-line is very banged up. We're on our third left tackle. Our center plays hurt. Saffold at guard is great...when he's on the field. Nate Davis is better at the other guard than last year. Kelly is a quality piece at RT but Jack Conklin was better when he played in Nashville (Kelly was his backup).

Our D-line has had its problems but continues to improve, even without some splash players that never materialized for us. We still don't have a good edge rush. Jeffrey Simmons is one to look at for in the middle....he's a wrecking ball.

Our secondary has had to learn not to get torched after having a better last year and have made some improvement in recent weeks.  Still, our fastest corner hasn't seen the field all year due to an unknown knee injury.

Mayfield is good but Tannehill is better. And our receivers are better.

You have made a few bullshit assumptions here. 

[jiggins7919]

11 hours ago, Sevenfeet said:

Mayfield is good but Tannehill is better. And our receivers are better.

My Browns are the Diet Titans. We're a year behind you guys...but that's it. I also think Baker has more potential, but Tannehill is certainly playing better now. Baker losing OBJ is the big death knell for vertical passing game and explosive plays. There's just no way to replace him and you guys still have both of your studs. Almost game time, cheers! 

[tinythinker]

22 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Sooo...I've seen a lot of posts on Twitter and read a lot of articles saying that the Browns need to at least play well to be taken seriously

The difference is public perception. The Browns set the standard and some records for losing. That's their burden to bear until they show they can be a great team again. They've risen from "total loser" status to "potential playoff team", but because the 8-3 record is against poorer performing teams there's an asterisk next to it for those used to "the same old Browns". If the Browns have a couple of winning seasons and make the playoffs in one of them they can shake that reputation as a let-down team.

The rest is the same kind of noise and speculation people get paid to write about but leaving that aside, there is a legit question about what might happen if the Brown's as a whole improve to a greater level of potential but Mayfield doesn't develop fast or far enough to match. Not saying that will happen. Yet sometimes the player you need for one phase of rebuilding and advancement isn't the best choice for another. If for some reason Mayfield can't keep up, then he can't. But the Browns wouldn't be where they are now without him, so deserves loads of credit.

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

My Browns are the Diet Titans. We're a year behind you guys...but that's it. I also think Baker has more potential, but Tannehill is certainly playing better now. Baker losing OBJ is the big death knell for vertical passing game and explosive plays. There's just no way to replace him and you guys still have both of your studs. Almost game time, cheers! 

If the Browns are a year behind the Titans, then we'll have a big first half lead in the AFC Championship Game against the Chiefs coming up? 

And speaking of your comment about how the Browns need to win to be taken seriously, the answer is yes. Every time the Browns start to garner some national attention, and they start asking if the Browns are for real, they then go out and get annihilated. (See: Steelers game earlier this season)

 

[Flugel]

17 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

I just think the Titans are objectively slightly better than us. Better more physical players mostly across the board.

Rb is a push. I’d say our O line is better by a small margin and D line is better. I can’t say we are better anywhere else. Maybe that will make the difference in the game. We win in the trenches ! Sucks not having Denzel 

Losing Ronnie Harrison's instincts at Safety isn't a warm fuzzy feeling either.

[BrownsfaninPa]

Any loss wil put this team in a tougher spot to win each remaining games. A win will give some ease to game plan for the next game.. Our schedule is favorable on our side.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

My Browns are the Diet Titans. We're a year behind you guys...but that's it. I also think Baker has more potential, but Tannehill is certainly playing better now. Baker losing OBJ is the big death knell for vertical passing game and explosive plays. There's just no way to replace him and you guys still have both of your studs. Almost game time, cheers! 

IMO, the key to winning this game will be the ability to sustain BALANCED attacks.  I'm guessing the Tits will be much better equipped in manpower and preparation to limit/stop our running game than JAX was.  That challenge goes directly to Baker Mayfield; and it shouldn't be impossible.

While I think Tannehill has been an efficient QB capable of leading a balanced attack in TN the last 2 years - I remember seeing him struggle to be consistent in Miami back when he was Baker's age.   They also have some weapons on the perimeter; and 1 of them looks very tough to tackle.   All that set said, both teams are 8-3 (and Cleveland is 3-0 against teams in TN's division). 

My take on where the Browns are at is I've had fun watching them this year.  They have been able to win in spite of some injuries, which is good for a team coming off 6-10 football.  I think we're a few players away from being an ELITE team at this time.  This team reminds me of the 85 Browns that made the playoffs; but they were 1 year shy of an AFC Conference Championship appearance at HOME. My question that will be answered soon is - are they good enough to beat one of the true contenders in the AFC without our best 2 players in the secondary?   

Last time we played the Tits, we lost both tackles and 1 backup tackle in that game.  This year we drafted our starting LT in round 1 and we added our starting RT via FA.  In addition, our RG Teller wasn't even here/starting yet when we played TN last year.  That's 3 big improvements on the OL plus Hunt as a nice change of pace in the backfield.  

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

If the Browns are a year behind the Titans, then we'll have a big first half lead in the AFC Championship Game against the Chiefs coming up? 

All depends on match ups baby! We get the Chiefs in a snow storm, you never know what can happen. 😁

[jiggins7919]

10 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Last time we played the Tits, we lost both tackles and 1 backup tackle in that game.  This year we drafted our starting LT in round 1 and we added our starting RT via FA.  In addition, our RG Teller wasn't even here/starting yet when we played TN last year.  That's 3 big improvements on the OL plus Hunt as a nice change of pace in the backfield.  

Great stuff as usual, Flugel! 

[SdBacker80]

34 minutes ago, Flugel said:

IMO, the key to winning this game will be the ability to sustain BALANCED attacks.  I'm guessing the Tits will be much better equipped in manpower and preparation to limit/stop our running game than JAX was.  That challenge goes directly to Baker Mayfield; and it shouldn't be impossible.

While I think Tannehill has been an efficient QB capable of leading a balanced attack in TN the last 2 years - I remember seeing him struggle to be consistent in Miami back when he was Baker's age.   They also have some weapons on the perimeter; and 1 of them looks very tough to tackle.   All that set said, both teams are 8-3 (and Cleveland is 3-0 against teams in TN's division). 

My take on where the Browns are at is I've had fun watching them this year.  They have been able to win in spite of some injuries, which is good for a team coming off 6-10 football.  I think we're a few players away from being an ELITE team at this time.  This team reminds me of the 85 Browns that made the playoffs; but they were 1 year shy of an AFC Conference Championship appearance at HOME. My question that will be answered soon is - are they good enough to beat one of the true contenders in the AFC without our best 2 players in the secondary?   

Last time we played the Tits, we lost both tackles and 1 backup tackle in that game.  This year we drafted our starting LT in round 1 and we added our starting RT via FA.  In addition, our RG Teller wasn't even here/starting yet when we played TN last year.  That's 3 big improvements on the OL plus Hunt as a nice change of pace in the backfield.  

We had 18 penalties and we were -3 turnover ratio. That could be a world of difference if those even out. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

We had 18 penalties and we were -3 turnover ratio. That could be a world of difference if those even out. 

The Browns don't get 18 penalties in a month under Stefanski. 

[nickers]

A loss here wouldn't be detrimental... but the burden to make the playoffs gets a little tougher... But as I like to say and believe... The Browns have "Unfinished Business... I hate to sound so cliche.. But I think its true... Go Browns!!

[calfoxwc]

almost game time - going to be a slugfest.

they have their receivers - plus.

our oline is better a good bit, BIG plus.

Our secondary has lost a few starters recently.... negative.

but not by much - their pass completion percentage.... still nearly even with the Browns.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/passing/2020/reg/all

 

[tinythinker]

well, looks like we very well may be talking about the fun side...

On 12/5/2020 at 11:13 AM, jiggins7919 said:

Now, let's talk about the fun stuff. What if we WIN? It's not a fantasy, not really. The Titans are like looking in a mirror. If we somehow pull out a victory, regardless of how, our season expectations take a WILD turn toward the unthinkable. We're not just hoping to get INTO the playoffs, we're now thinking about how far we're going. Do YOU want to play a ball control offense in the freezing weather with Myles Garrett lurking around? Uh, no.  

There's also the Baker Mayfield saga. If he plays well, it will go a long way to establishing him as the guy. I've been saying he'll be our QB for a while now, but there's still some hesitation from fans and pundits that will dissipate after time. He's going to be around for years. Book it. 

 

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

We had 18 penalties and we were -3 turnover ratio. That could be a world of difference if those even out. 

Precisely! 

The better the Jimmys and Joes the less we see the X's and Uh-O's.

[The Cysko Kid]

19 hours ago, Sevenfeet said:

A lot has been said that the Browns haven't had many wins against quality teams. That being said, 8 wins at week 12 is still 8 wins in the NFL.

On paper, the running games are a push. But I'll still take Derrick Henry any day of the week.

Our O-line is very banged up. We're on our third left tackle. Our center plays hurt. Saffold at guard is great...when he's on the field. Nate Davis is better at the other guard than last year. Kelly is a quality piece at RT but Jack Conklin was better when he played in Nashville (Kelly was his backup).

Our D-line has had its problems but continues to improve, even without some splash players that never materialized for us. We still don't have a good edge rush. Jeffrey Simmons is one to look at for in the middle....he's a wrecking ball.

Our secondary has had to learn not to get torched after having a better last year and have made some improvement in recent weeks.  Still, our fastest corner hasn't seen the field all year due to an unknown knee injury.

Mayfield is good but Tannehill is better. And our receivers are better.

Mayfield looked better today. And derrick henry is good but I'll take chubb and hunt myself. Good luck the rest of the way.