calfoxwc Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Some of the Troubling Points in the Obama Healthcare Bill (with references) July 23, 2009 Senator Bayh, As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the Healthcare Bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the Healthcare Bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens. Page 22: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!! Page 30 Sec 123: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Page 29 lines 4-16: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Page 42: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice! Page 50 Section 152: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise Page 58: Govt will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! Page 59 lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN). Page 84 Sec 203: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange. Page 85 Line 7: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = AARP members – the govt will RATION your healthcare. (Never mind if you’ve paid into this your entire working life! This is how they’re going to “save” social security for you!) Page 91 Lines 4-7 ll: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens. Page 95 Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan. Page 102 Lines 12-18: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice. Page 124 Lines 24-25: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly. Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. Page 127 Lines 1-16: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary) Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE! Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll. Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll. Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income. (assuming there is any income.) Page 170 Lines 1-3: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) Page 195: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records. Page 203 Line 14-15: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that! Page 239 Line 14-24: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected. Page 241 Line 6-8: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same! Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans. Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries. Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs. Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions. Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you. Page 317 Lines 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own! Page 317-318 Lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand. Page 321 Lines 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!! Page 335 Lines 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing. Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan. Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable! Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone? Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients. Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide) Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends. Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT! Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life! Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!? Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN? Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage. Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating. Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election. Respectfully, Stephen E Fraser MD Indianapolis, IN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 And, since I don't want to start another thread, I'll include this here: Canada's top doctor says the Canadian Health Care system is IMPLODING. And some of you want us to go the same route? http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...D335rGu_Z3KXoQw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Looks like a total take over of health care to me. I cant wait to stand in line at a hospital like I do at the DMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 The biggest problem with this thread is the grammar.... Some of Troubling Points in the OBama Healthcare Bill with references Come on Dan, your better than that as Shep always says. Who cares about spelling and grammar in here. That is nit picking. This isn't a grammar web page, it is a Browns web page, with a political touch. Don't act like a douche bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Now, Dan, Do you think this bill should be passed as is, like Obama wanted? And those senior citizens are frightened, and some are Democrats, some Republicans. The anger, fear and concern is not partisan. It's Americans looking at drastic takedown of their health insurance they have and they don't want to change. It's America, they should HAVE THEIR CHOICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thousands of surgeries cut because of lack of gov funding - Canada. Yeah, that socialized gov med insurance is a forked up idea, I don't care WHO the president is. http://www.vancouversun.com/story_print.ht...506&sponsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 So dan, Do you think that Obama is a victim here? Do you think that citizens dont have a right to be represented or heard? I suppose those opposed to Obamacare hired a community organizer with tax money and started showing up by the bus loads then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dan, did you only step in to frantically defend Obama ? Do you have any constructive appraisals about the points made in the beginning of the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 yeah that sounds bad.....when it comes from the lips of a republican. unfortunately, thats not anything close to whats actually in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 This is THE biggest problem with this board, It has become a Republican bulletin board for propoganda rather than the true views of the individual posters. Some in here dont believe what they post but its good shock value and it gets arise out of some and gets them attention and they surely dont want to have rational discussion. How about I just make up five threads a day that have no merit but trash Republicans just because I want attention? One might think the deep thinkers who are so offended would have countered or supported the items listed in the article. And still............. There have been more threads with lots of room for comment on the many proposals to this "system" that have generated no responses at all. Sure Dan, we all can agree the system needs "reform." There are a lot of options aren't there? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Most of what is posted in here doesnt merit a response because its so ridiculous. In terms of the first post in this thread, Dan, what do you find so ridiculous. I happen to find a lot of this ridiculous - for reasons likely different from yours. Are these lies, in your opinion? Are they made up? What is your position on the specific notations in the first post in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobuo Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 You want to fix healthcare, vote for less government control. Let free people make choices themselves and let free enterprise take over the system. When the government screws up a system like healthcare, they think that if they just do more of it, that'll fix it. So we messed up half of it, lets take over the whole thing. Get them OUT and it will fix itself practically overnight. Out completely. The REAL problem is we have people in office that want to control everything, regulate, tax. As long as we continue to allow them to remain in office, healthcare will continue to remain in turmoil. The government can't run a two car funeral without screwing something up, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 You want to fix healthcare, vote for less government control. Let free people make choices themselves and let free enterprise take over the system. we've tried that....know where it got us? an insurance monopoly that will shove a lead pipe up your ass to go with the cancer they wont pay for. as far as the merit of the thread, it is bullshit as presented. i'll be right back to prove it.....thanks to tabbed browsing. frankly, proving you dipshits wrong at every turn is getting boring. try posting something that isn't a republican scare tactic....like th edeath panel bullshit. xxxxing christ, its like this forum is the home of the heritage foundation email slander campaign. you lost, and are still crying in your panties about it. now, if you want to criticize obama on actual policy, happenings, or decisions.....post 'em up. but these republican propoganda pieces are xxxxing lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 ok kiddies, here we go: page 30 11 SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. 12 (a) ESTABLISHMENT.— 13 (1) IN GENERAL.—There is established a pri14 vate-public advisory committee which shall be a 15 panel of medical and other experts to be known as 16 the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to rec17 ommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, 18 and premium plans. 19 (2) CHAIR.—The Surgeon General shall be a 20 member and the chair of the Health Benefits Advi21 sory Committee. 22 (3) MEMBERSHIP.—The Health Benefits Advi23 sory Committee shall be composed of the following 24 members, in addition to the Surgeon General: VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00030 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.) F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2) 31 1 (A) 9 members who are not Federal em2 ployees or officers and who are appointed by 3 the President. 4 ( 9 members who are not Federal em5 ployees or officers and who are appointed by 6 the Comptroller General of the United States in 7 a manner similar to the manner in which the 8 Comptroller General appoints members to the 9 Medicare Payment Advisory Commission under 10 section 1805© of the Social Security Act. 11 © Such even number of members (not to 12 exceed 8) who are Federal employees and offi13 cers, as the President may appoint. 14 Such initial appointments shall be made not later 15 than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this 16 Act. 17 (4) TERMS.—Each member of the Health Bene18 fits Advisory Committee shall serve a 3-year term on 19 the Committee, except that the terms of the initial 20 members shall be adjusted in order to provide for a 21 staggered term of appointment for all such mem22 bers. 23 (5) PARTICIPATION.—The membership of the 24 Health Benefits Advisory Committee shall at least 25 reflect providers, consumer representatives, employ- VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00031 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.) F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2) 32 1 ers, labor, health insurance issuers, experts in health 2 care financing and delivery, experts in racial and 3 ethnic disparities, experts in care for those with dis4 abilities, representatives of relevant governmental 5 agencies. and at least one practicing physician or 6 other health professional and an expert on children’s 7 health and shall represent a balance among various 8 sectors of the health care system so that no single 9 sector unduly influences the recommendations of 10 such Committee. 11 ( DUTIES.— 12 (1) RECOMMENDATIONS ON BENEFIT STAND13 ARDS.—The Health Benefits Advisory Committee 14 shall recommend to the Secretary of Health and 15 Human Services (in this subtitle referred to as the 16 ‘‘Secretary’’) benefit standards (as defined in para17 graph (4)), and periodic updates to such standards. 18 In developing such recommendations, the Committee 19 shall take into account innovation in health care and 20 consider how such standards could reduce health dis21 parities. 22 (2) DEADLINE.—The Health Benefits Advisory 23 Committee shall recommend initial benefit standards 24 to the Secretary not later than 1 year after the date 25 of the enactment of this Act. VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00032 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.) F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2) 33 1 (3) PUBLIC INPUT.—The Health Benefits Advi2 sory Committee shall allow for public input as a part 3 of developing recommendations under this sub4 section. 5 (4) BENEFIT STANDARDS DEFINED.—In this 6 subtitle, the term ‘‘benefit standards’’ means stand7 ards respecting— 8 (A) the essential benefits package de9 scribed in section 122, including categories of 10 covered treatments, items and services within 11 benefit classes, and cost-sharing; and 12 ( the cost-sharing levels for enhanced 13 plans and premium plans (as provided under 14 section 203©) consistent with paragraph (5). 15 (5) LEVELS OF COST-SHARING FOR ENHANCED 16 AND PREMIUM PLANS.— 17 (A) ENHANCED PLAN.—The level of cost18 sharing for enhanced plans shall be designed so 19 that such plans have benefits that are actuari20 ally equivalent to approximately 85 percent of 21 the actuarial value of the benefits provided 22 under the reference benefits package described 23 in section 122©(3)(. 24 ( PREMIUM PLAN.—The level of cost25 sharing for premium plans shall be designed so VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:51 Jul 14, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00033 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\AAHCA0~1.XML HOLCPC July 14, 2009 (12:51 p.m.) F:\P11\NHI\TRICOMM\AAHCA09_001.XML f:\VHLC\071409\071409.140.xml (444390|2) 34 1 that such plans have benefits that are actuari2 ally equivalent to approximately 95 percent of 3 the actuarial value of the benefits provided 4 under the reference benefits package described 5 in section 122©(3)(. 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choco Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 so, yes there will be a committee.....and yes, they'll be making some decisions, using input from the various people defined, to outline what coverage types, benefits, etc. are needed. after reading it, i fail understand whats so xxxxing wrong with these "beaurocrats", not all of which are gov't employees. just for the sake of it, how many of you toting the party line have actually read the text of the bill before you got all bent about it? or more likely, how many of you sheeple are just going by what glenn beck says.... what a waste of xxxxin time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 what a waste of xxxxin time. From reading the contents of your posts, Choco, I am flabbergasted that your time is so valuable. In fact, I'd think that you've have nothing BUT time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Some of the Troubling Points in the Obama Healthcare Bill (with references) July 23, 2009 Senator Bayh, As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the Healthcare Bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the Healthcare Bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens. Page 22: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!! Page 30 Sec 123: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Page 29 lines 4-16: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Page 42: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice! Page 50 Section 152: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise Page 58: Govt will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! Page 59 lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN). Page 84 Sec 203: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange. Page 85 Line 7: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = AARP members – the govt will RATION your healthcare. (Never mind if you’ve paid into this your entire working life! This is how they’re going to “save” social security for you!) Page 91 Lines 4-7 ll: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens. Page 95 Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan. Page 102 Lines 12-18: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice. Page 124 Lines 24-25: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly. Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. Page 127 Lines 1-16: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary) Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE! Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll. Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll. Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income. (assuming there is any income.) Page 170 Lines 1-3: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) Page 195: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records. Page 203 Line 14-15: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that! Page 239 Line 14-24: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected. Page 241 Line 6-8: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same! Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans. Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries. Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs. Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions. Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you. Page 317 Lines 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own! Page 317-318 Lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand. Page 321 Lines 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!! Page 335 Lines 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing. Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan. Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable! Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone? Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients. Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide) Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends. Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT! Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life! Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!? Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN? Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage. Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating. Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election. Respectfully, Stephen E Fraser MD Indianapolis, IN Those who whine about protesters more than likely didn't take the time to read what is being presented, well I mean rammed into being a new government program. They are the Obama zombies and cant think for themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 They are the Obama zombies and cant think for themselves You've convinced me, T. I'm going to stop, from here on out, reading articles written by intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people, watching interviews with intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people and stop talking to other intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people and instead read and discuss this shit (which, by the way, is so far over your head and beyond your comprehension it's frankly laughable) with geniuses like you and cal...two of the most impressionable and least informed people I've ever come across. You're not even dining room tables. You're soap dishes. Toilet brushes. Shoe horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 You've convinced me, T. I'm going to stop, from here on out, reading articles written by intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people, watching interviews with intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people and stop talking to other intelligent, well-reasoned and thoughtful people and instead read and discuss this shit (which, by the way, is so far over your head and beyond your comprehension it's frankly laughable) with geniuses like you and cal...two of the most impressionable and least informed people I've ever come across. You're not even dining room tables. You're soap dishes. Toilet brushes. Shoe horns. Actually, you are the toilet brush. You come across as an arrogant, flippant dick head. Which I'm sure you are in real life. Your parents probably can't even stand you. Good god, what the xxxx happened to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I think mz the pussy's use of the word "impressionable" is right on. I agree completely. I have never run into two people who will buy - hook, line, and sinker - whatever bullshit that is presented to them in the way that Cal and Mr. T do. It's really something. As long as it directs cultural resentment or rage (in Cal's case) or unfounded paranoia (in T's case) at people or institutions they've already been made to despise they'll believe it all and forward it on with their seal of approval. I could create the most outlandish scenarios imaginable, and as long as these two thought it came from a friend on their side they'd post it in here as truth. I can't decide whether it's more pitiable or frightening. I'd say Cal is more pitiable, T more frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I'd say Cal is more pitiable, T more frightening. I think cal is way more frightening. Baby talk anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I find that sad. He's actually proud of himself after he types that stuff, and he's been doing it for years. It's beyond sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Very true. Can I be both frightened and sad simultaneously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 When the baby talk thing starts, it's probably the most uncomfortable I've ever been on the internet. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 The baby talk is mocking the childish temper tantrums that go on by Heck, mz the pussy and Dan on this board. Leg, you don't like the baby talk? Then read an example of the underlying message behind it.? And I just posted some information on a forwarded letter - some of the stuff I recognize as what I think is legit, I don't know about other stuff. But not one of you libs have given a legit critique on one item. Just personal attacks to negate the op to have to intelligently discuss something. *********************************** mz the pussy said: "Yes, T. The Obama administration is ready to kill grandma. And execute kittens on TV. And xxxx Mickey Mouse in the ass. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think mz the pussy's use of the word "impressionable" is right on. I agree completely. I have never run into two people who will buy - hook, line, and sinker - whatever bullshit that is presented to them in the way that Cal and Mr. T do. I was about to laugh at that until I realized you were actually serious. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 A request from "Big Brother", guys. This thread has degenerated into a lot of name calling and personal attacks. There are only so many ways one can call the other one "stupid" before the impact is diluted and the rhetoric elevated. Let's all take a deep breath................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I figure, seriously, that if we look at the bill, and go over these points, well - I'd like to know whether all are legit are not. I don't have time to do them all myself, and reading the obumblycare bill is taking too much time from making jam, and zucchini bread and a new cookie I just created. The cookie was a huge success on our last farm market test. Kids and adults alike LOVE it. Has oatmeal, a secret garden plant, and zucchini in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 Some of the Troubling Points in the Obama Healthcare Bill (with references) July 23, 2009 Senator Bayh, As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the Healthcare Bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a healthcare system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our healthcare system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed. I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the Healthcare Bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens. Page 22: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!! Page 30 Sec 123: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. Page 29 lines 4-16: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!! Page 42: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice! Page 50 Section 152: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise Page 58: Govt will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued! Page 59 lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN). Page 84 Sec 203: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange. Page 85 Line 7: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = AARP members – the govt will RATION your healthcare. (Never mind if you’ve paid into this your entire working life! This is how they’re going to “save” social security for you!) Page 91 Lines 4-7 ll: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens. Page 95 Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan. Page 102 Lines 12-18: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice. Page 124 Lines 24-25: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly. Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. Page 127 Lines 1-16: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary) Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE! Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll. Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll. Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income. (assuming there is any income.) Page 170 Lines 1-3: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) Page 195: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records. Page 203 Line 14-15: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that! Page 239 Line 14-24: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected. Page 241 Line 6-8: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same! Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, profession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans. Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries. Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs. Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing! Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions. Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you. Page 317 Lines 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own! Page 317-318 Lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand. Page 321 Lines 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!! Page 335 Lines 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing. Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan. Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable! Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone? Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients. Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death. (assisted suicide) Page 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends. Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced care planning consultant" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates. Page 429 Lines 10-12: "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOVT! Page 429 Lines 13-25: The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life! Page 469: Community Based Home Medical Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!? Page 472 Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORIGINATION. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based organization. Like ACORN? Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage. Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services. Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating. Furthermore, If you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor/patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election. Respectfully, Stephen E Fraser MD Indianapolis, IN Thanks Cal for showing us the facts of the Obama/Kennedy/Hillary HealthCare, and some will continue to say that these things dont exist and that it was all make believe. My words to them are, be careful for what you wish for. Just Ask Teddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted August 27, 2009 Report Share Posted August 27, 2009 wow....thats the most pathetic thing i've never imagined even you'd say. political hacks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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