dencyguy Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 From the Kansas City Star >>Cassel’s struggles began during an intrasquad scrimmage two weeks ago when he committed three turnovers. He has had a problem with turnovers since and lost a fumble during last week’s preseason opener against Houston. Asked whether Cassel has been the best quarterback in camp, coach Todd Haley deferred. “I think I’ll hold out on answering that right now,” he said.<< Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 time for shep to jump off the Cassel bandwagon and say he was never on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 It's worth noting that Dwayne Bowe's been working with the 2nd and 3rd team offenses. In the first preseason game, Cassel's starting wideouts were Devard Darling and Terrance Copper. And I didn't think Croyle looked all that impressive in that game. He & Bowe worked well together, but he also missed badly on a couple deep throws. The more important thing to take out of that game: Alex Magee looks like a legit 3-4 DE. Glenn Dorsey? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OconRecon Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 So Denver and KC are a mess. Who are there coaches? Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencyguy Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 So Denver and KC are a mess. Who are there coaches? Hmmmm. Hard to gloat with no clear QB and a team that sucked out loud during their first preseason game, but if a lot of people on this board had had their druthers (myself included, actually), the Browns would currently be operated by the combo of the guy who traded for Cassel and gave him a $60 million contract and the guy who tried to get Cassel, alienated his Pro Bowl QB in the process, and ended up turning to Kyle Orton to run his franchise. Dennis I'm not saying that Mangini and Kokinis are guaranteed to turn the Browns around, but if they fail at least they haven't wrapped up a ton of cap space or made a fiasco of every decision they've made so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I admit it: I wanted Pioli/McDaniels. Good thing we didn't get em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Sure the Browns have a clear cut QB. His name is Brady Quinn. Amazing how the dittoheads can't get it. They buy into the smoke and get confused. Whether Quinn is a good QB or just sorta "plain" remains to be seen, but there is no QB problem in Cleveland at the present time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Hard to gloat with no clear QB and a team that sucked out loud during their first preseason game, but if a lot of people on this board had had their druthers (myself included, actually), the Browns would currently be operated by the combo of the guy who traded for Cassel and gave him a $60 million contract and the guy who tried to get Cassel, alienated his Pro Bowl QB in the process, and ended up turning to Kyle Orton to run his franchise. How much does Quinn make this year if he meets the playing time incentives in his deal? It's not like he'll be cheap. And if he doesn't play well, we'll likely be investing just as much guaranteed money ($28M) in a rookie QB next year: that's what Dirty Sanchez got. I still don't see what alternative people think Pioli should have pursued in Kansas City. Not sure whether he would have brought Cassel to Cleveland, but I don't think any GM would have been happy with Croyle and Thigpen as their top QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencyguy Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 I dig Marty, Inspecta, but I worried about his age and the fact that at some point, he's not going to be able to shake a team up and get the attention of his younger players. A logical candidate for his last job might just be the Cowboys, assuming they don't make the playoffs this year--and I don't think they will. I can see Jerry Jones bringing him in to do a quick stint slapping the players into shape. One of my favorite Marty memories was when he was in KC. During a MNF game, Shannon Sharpe got under Derrick Thomas's skin, and IIRC, Thomas got two or three straight 15-yard facemask penalties. Marty was mic'ed up, and after he pulled him, he talked to him the way you would expect a guy to talk to his son: "Look at me, young man, you just can't...hey! Look at me! Young man, that's not how you play, and you're not going back in there until you calm down!" Dennis Granted, it's not like Marty made his reputation by keeping his cool at the end of games, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencyguy Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Sure the Browns have a clear cut QB. His name is Brady Quinn. Amazing how the dittoheads can't get it. They buy into the smoke and get confused. Wow, we haven't had a "playing possum" argument since Chris Palmer was just holding back the 95% of his playbook that had all the good plays in it. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Wow, we haven't had a "playing possum" argument since Chris Palmer was just holding back the 95% of his playbook that had all the good plays in it. Dennis Playing possum? In your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoth Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 time for shep to jump off the Cassel bandwagon and say he was never on it. File that one away with Joey Harrington and Charlie Frye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 File that one away with Joey Harrington and Charlie Frye. More like scott mitchell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 And yes, I think Cassell is good. Not much reason to get off the bandwagon just yet. The article Dennis linked to says that Bowe's now working with the first team. Let's see if that improves things. During the preseason game, the commentators noted that Cassel was working on getting the ball out quicker to avoid taking as many sacks & hits as he did last year. He may be overcompensating by rushing things a bit, which could explain some of the poor decisionmaking and accuracy issues. But I don't fault him for the fumble: the replay showed that the ball was snapped up into his rib cage, and the wet conditions made recovering the ball difficult. And there's a lot to like about a mobile QB who was the 9th most accurate QB in the league last year, according to Football Outsiders' metrics. His last incompletion in the preseason game was on a play in which he evaded the rush, fled to the right and hit Sean Ryan right between the numbers, only to have his tight end drop the ball. If Cassel struggles a bit this year, the Tony Gonzalez trade should be the move that comes under scrutiny. If he struggles badly, or continues to struggle in 2010, Chiefs fans will then be justified in calling for Pioli's decapitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencyguy Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 If Cassel struggles a bit this year, the Tony Gonzalez trade should be the move that comes under scrutiny. If he struggles badly, or continues to struggle in 2010, Chiefs fans will then be justified in calling for Pioli's decapitation. I should point out that my problem with the Cassel deal wasn't that the Chiefs wanted him, but that they traded for him and then immediately gave him a mid-range NFL starter's contract. He played last well last year, but he was surrounded by what has consistently been the best team in the NFL for almost a decade. Giving him that kind of money on a rebuilding team shows his teammates that he's the man (at least until Haley starts Croyle), but it's a pretty big gamble. For the money he's getting, he'd better be able to keep Croyle off the field, or else Pioli's going to face a lot of questions. Dennis What is it with Todd Haley and young USC quarterbacks who can't get off the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 If Cassel struggles a bit this year, the Tony Gonzalez trade should be the move that comes under scrutiny. If he struggles badly, or continues to struggle in 2010, Chiefs fans will then be justified in calling for Pioli's decapitation. I think Cassel's going to struggle this year, and from what I saw last year, I'd be loath to blame him much. He lost a HOF TE as you importantly pointed out, but is also behind a very very young and inexperienced line. At this point, it would be a testament to his ability as a QB if he didn't struggle this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 If Cassel struggles a bit this year, the Tony Gonzalez trade should be the move that comes under scrutiny. If he struggles badly, or continues to struggle in 2010, Chiefs fans will then be justified in calling for Pioli's decapitation. Not to be redundant but I'll share some eye popping stats I've already shared on this subject the last time we talked about Cassell. Every QB (below) that wasn't wearing the black and silver seemed to have career best passing years with Randy Moss being the X-factor. That's a GREAT chess piece in the game plan. His verticality, speed, hands and jumping ability make it easier for the rest of the receivers in the offense he's in. Someone reminded us that Kevin Faulk and Wes Welker combined for 169 receptions underneathe. That's an impact. Randall Cunningham Year Age Tm GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate 1998 35 MIN 14 13-1-0 259 425 60.9 3704 34 10 106.0 Daunte Culpepper Year Age Tm GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate 2000 23 MIN 16 16 11-5-0 297 474 62.7 3937 33 16 98.0 2004 27 MIN 16 16 8-8-0 379 548 69.2 4717 39 11 110.9 Tom Brady Year Age Tm GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate 2007 30 NWE 16 16-0-0 398 578 68.9 4806 50 8 117.2 Matt Cassell Year Age Tm GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate 2008 26 NWE 15 10-5-0 327 516 63.4 3693 21 11 89.4 While Cassell was a pleasant surprise - you can see a difference in TD passes and ratings above right? Like Dennis says, Casell got a nice margin of error when you consider NE only gave up 268 1st downs on defense (ranked 3rd in AFC). Cassell's new team in KC gave up 344 1st downs which ranked 15th out of 16 AFC teams. I think BOTH Cassell and Cutler are going to offenses that just might be a culture shock. It's looking like Orton might find the same diffculties. I've always felt environment was a key ingredient to a QB sinking or swimming. That's why you see guys like Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Jake Delhomme, Mark Brunnell and Brett Favre doing much better on their 2nd NFL teams than they did with their first teams. Sometimes the reverse happens where guys go from a great environment to uh-oh. 3 examples: Jeff Hostetler, Neil O'Donnell and Boomer Esiason. All 3 QBs (Cutler, Cassell and Orton) are getting significant pay raises; but you don't get that kind of increase without enormous expectations. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. - Tom F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I should point out that my problem with the Cassel deal wasn't that the Chiefs wanted him, but that they traded for him and then immediately gave him a mid-range NFL starter's contract. He played last well last year, but he was surrounded by what has consistently been the best team in the NFL for almost a decade. Giving him that kind of money on a rebuilding team shows his teammates that he's the man (at least until Haley starts Croyle), but it's a pretty big gamble. For the money he's getting, he'd better be able to keep Croyle off the field, or else Pioli's going to face a lot of questions. That's a fair point, but it's based on the assumption that the Chiefs could have had Cassel play out the year on the franchise tag. I'm not sure that they could have fit both Cassel's one year, $14.5M deal and Tyson Jackson's contract under this year's cap. Also, the expectation that his stats will dip - one that's shared even by some of us Cassel backers - would complicate any contract discussions after this season. Fans may be disappointed, but the front office would have to negotiate a long-term deal with a guy who made $14.5M the previous year. That'd put the team in a serious bind. A great season from Cassel would cause another set of problems, especially considering the huge deals Roethlisberger and Manning have received & Rivers and Cutler will get. So it seems to me like the Chiefs had to negotiate with Cassel, both to alleviate their cap situation and make sure the Cassel experiment was more than a one year project. The numbers may be a little high, but I think it's understandable why a QB-hungry franchise would be willing to take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted August 22, 2009 Report Share Posted August 22, 2009 Cassel bounces back: Matt Cassel completed 9-of-14 passes for 99 yards and a touchdown and added 13 yards on two scrambles against the Vikings Friday night. Cassel was taking heat all week after failing to move the Chiefs past mid-field in the opener, but he was able to accomplish that four times in the first half against the Vikings. Operating behind a struggling offensive line, Cassel also showed impressive ability to keep plays alive with his feet. He'll be under center in Week 1. via here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 The touchdown drive came against the Vikings' second team defense, and Cassel did throw a ball at a dropping d-lineman that should have been picked. But it was a pretty good performance playing behind an absolutely awful o-line: Jared Allen and Pat Williams didn't suit up for the game, but the Vikings were able to pressure Cassel on almost every play. He ended up getting sacked four times. I don't see how he can stay healthy behind that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't see how he can stay healthy behind that line. And Pioli makes a move: Chiefs acquired OGs Ikechuku Ndukwe and Andy Alleman from the Dolphins in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick in 2010. It must have been an interesting Sunday night dinner for Bill Parcells and his son-in-law, Chiefs GM Scott Pioli. Ndukwe could start at right guard for the Chiefs, and Alleman may be pushed to center where he'd be an upgrade on Rudy Niswanger and Eric Ghiaciuc. The Dolphins are obviously happy with the progress of guards Donald Thomas and Shawn Murphy. via here. I hope the U of A alum does well for the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.