America Has a Gun Problem

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Do you think video takes cause gun violence?

I think that from about 10 years on up a steady daily indoctrination of mass killing and general mindless violence coupled with a general decline of morals in our country leads to all of the mass killing fields in America today...... hundreds of deaths now in our schools.  When I went to school that number was ZERO !

And yes I'm a. GUN GUY and have owned and/or used our guns since I was 11 some 60 years now.  

~ REMEMBER ~

1. Guns don't kill people nutjobs with guns do. 

2. The only really successful way to stop a nutjob with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

3. Some gun safety training and licensing should be required to carry a concealed firearm.  

Just the basics.

.....oh edit add, our one grand nephew from when he was maybe 10-12 used to go in his room and play his games and you'd hear. " kill him, kill him " coming from his room.  Now he's a good kid from a good family  -but- what if....... you can finish that.......

Edited December 7, 2021 by mjp28

[Westside Steve]

I think the inundation of social media is a big reason random acts of violence happen. Not exactly the same for garden variety Thug shootings in the Inner City. Crazy people are now instant celebrities that other crazy people see that and they want to be celebrities too.

WSS 

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Canton Dawg said:

My wife died 6 months ago in a terrible accident, I had to deal with it.

Baldwin got his jollies publicly shaming law enforcement officers forced to shoot people in the line of duty.

Now it’s his turn to squirm, see how that works? Deal with it.

I'm sorry you had something terrible happen you you. Really am. 

I don't think negativity in one area warrants negativity here. 

[MLD Woody]

11 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

I think that from about 10 years on up a steady daily indoctrination of mass killing and general mindless violence coupled with a general decline of morals in our country leads to all of the mass killing fields in America today...... hundreds of deaths now in our schools.  When I went to school that number was ZERO !

And yes I'm a. GUN GUY and have owned and/or used our guns since I was 11 some 60 years now.  

~ REMEMBER ~

1. Guns don't kill people nutjobs with guns do. 

2. The only really successful way to stop a nutjob with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

3. Some gun safety training and licensing should be required to carry a concealed firearm.  

Just the basics.

I'd argue the only really successful way to stop a nutjob with a gun is to make sure they never get a gun to begin with.

[mjp28]

12 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I'd argue the only really successful way to stop a nutjob with a gun is to make sure they never get a gun to begin with.

First it's way too late for that with millions of guns already out there we've been a gun culture since before 1776.

Second nut 🥜 jobs would steal or just get them on the black market.    It's a tough problem starting with the kids now...... easy answers ??????

[MLD Woody]

29 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

First it's way too late for that with millions of guns already out there we've been a gun culture since before 1776.

Second nut 🥜 jobs would steal or just get them on the black market.    It's a tough problem starting with the kids now...... easy answers ??????

I knew the response here would be "well, it's too late". Nothing is too late in reality. It just takes effort. I don't expect any changes because of lobbyists and our culture, but nothing is impossible.

[nickers]

21 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I knew the response here would be "well, it's too late". Nothing is too late in reality. It just takes effort. I don't expect any changes because of lobbyists and our culture, but nothing is impossible.

Let me clue you in on something "BUTTHEAD" As long as there are Machinists and Blacksmiths... There'll be guns!...

 

Making fire arms is not all that hard to do...

[Westside Steve]

24 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I knew the response here would be "well, it's too late". Nothing is too late in reality. It just takes effort. I don't expect any changes because of lobbyists and our culture, but nothing is impossible.

⁸⁸

Absolutely not. There is a process bike which you can most certainly repeal the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment. I realize that you prefer to focus on the very tiny number of school shootings (because it gets you more sympathy) and ignore the huge amount of people gunned down in the hood, but anytime you get enough people in America to ratified what you demand, owning a firearm could be made a felony the next day. 

By the way as to the boogeyman I have no doubt that those who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment also have lobbyists.

WSS 

[Neo]

16 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

 

 

 

 

and also school shootings

I used to read the police blotters regularly in my area, but not so much anymore because they don't put them in the paper as much as they used to. One common thing over the years is guns being stolen from people's houses and cars. This in my mind is one of the big problems when talking about gun violence. (at least it is in my area)

[Neo]

I really don't think there is anything that can be done to combat gun violence. We are a gun culture and it's something that just comes with the territory. Go out, get your CHL,  protect yourself and stay out of bad situations.

[calfoxwc]

going after guns is a subculture political weapon. More people are killed by knives, than long guns?

but many don't parrot the knives as being "a problem".

The anti-2nd Amendment people claim to be so concerned about deaths by guns, but they don't care at all about

knives?

and, tragically, they don't care about all the unborn and even born children that get murdered via on demand any time they FEEL like it abortion because of their irresponsible sexual behavior.

I hope they overturn Roe vs Wade to a point. Only under serious, dire circumstances can I understand the need for it. Even still....it's a very tough issue.

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

⁸⁸

Absolutely not. There is a process bike which you can most certainly repeal the 2nd Amendment or any other Amendment. I realize that you prefer to focus on the very tiny number of school shootings (because it gets you more sympathy) and ignore the huge amount of people gunned down in the hood, but anytime you get enough people in America to ratified what you demand, owning a firearm could be made a felony the next day. 

By the way as to the boogeyman I have no doubt that those who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment also have lobbyists.

WSS 

I'm not even advocating for repealing the 2nd amendment. The comment was "only a good guy with a gun blah blah blah". That's not true. Or if by "stopping" you mean "after the shooter has killed a handful of people". The only real way to stop that is to completely remove the gun. 

Stricter regulations and mental health education funding is a good start

Obviously gang violence in the cities matters, but the root causes there are different. Restrictions around gun ownership would eventually improve that situation too though..

 

[MLD Woody]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

I really don't think there is anything that can be done to combat gun violence. We are a gun culture and it's something that just comes with the territory. Go out, get your CHL,  protect yourself and stay out of bad situations.

It's fucked up to think that way. And I don't think a generation of kids coming up that had a school shooting somewhere multiple times a year are going to take that lying down. And good for them. Hopefully they can improve the current situation

[Westside Steve]

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/school-shootings-this-year-how-many-and-where/2020/01

and yet

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/science/shark-attacks-extremely-low-in-2020-fatalities-spiked/

WSS

[Neo]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

It's fucked up to think that way. And I don't think a generation of kids coming up that had a school shooting somewhere multiple times a year are going to take that lying down. And good for them. Hopefully they can improve the current situation

But what I'm saying is what can you do? Criminals can get their hands on guns easily. All they need to do is break into someone's house and steal their guns, now they have a gun they can go rob a store or murder someone with that can't be traced back to them.

Or the thief sells it to someone for drugs and then it gets passed on, there's no telling how many times it changes hands. Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible gun owners out there and is a huge problem.

I keep my guns locked up at all times except for the one I use for protection. You're not going to break into my house and find one my guns in a sock drawer or under a mattress.

That probably how a lot of accidental shootings happen involving children getting their hands on mom or dad's gun. Until you solve that problem, it's going to be hard to slow down .

[Kvoethe]

11 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

The death of Freedom comes slowly, more like cancer than a heart attack. It's just a little more inconvenient for the buzzards. Or woodpeckers.

WSS 

Frog in pot scenario

[DieHardBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

It's fucked up to think that way. And I don't think a generation of kids coming up that had a school shooting somewhere multiple times a year are going to take that lying down. And good for them. Hopefully they can improve the current situation

Ain't taken mines or my kids gun's.  Maga.

[VaporTrail]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Video games are uses as a scapegoat when discussing our gun violence issue. Dumbass CNN was pushing that take after the Oxford shooting. I brought it up because they're tied together.

But video games do not cause gun violence any more than ice cream sales cause crime (correlation vs causation)

I did play GTA3 as a kid. Since then, I've chopped off a couple of people's legs. COULD VIDEO GAMES BE THE CULPRIT? Find out next time on your favorite news channel.

3 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I knew the response here would be "well, it's too late". Nothing is too late in reality. It just takes effort. I don't expect any changes because of lobbyists and our culture, but nothing is impossible.

I'm not even advocating for repealing the 2nd amendment. The comment was "only a good guy with a gun blah blah blah". That's not true. Or if by "stopping" you mean "after the shooter has killed a handful of people". The only real way to stop that is to completely remove the gun. 

Stricter regulations and mental health education funding is a good start

Obviously gang violence in the cities matters, but the root causes there are different. Restrictions around gun ownership would eventually improve that situation too though..

Alright, I'll play ball. My problem with the gun control crowd is that they have not brought up a single plausible way of doing what they suggest. First, if you are for stricter regulations, then what segment of the American populace should have their 2nd amendment right revoked? Secondly, suppose that somehow those stricter regulations happen, what is your plan to keep these newly restricted people from getting their hands on one of the 500 million firearms circulating in the country?

I'm happy to hear any thoughts you have, but what you're asking is a Sisyphean task. You are focusing on the statistical anomaly of school shootings, instead of the vast majority of gun violence being rural suicides or urban homicides. The argument you present isn't really much different from those who were asking for the Patriot Act after 9/11. 

[mjp28]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

Let me clue you in on something "BUTTHEAD" As long as there are Machinists and Blacksmiths... There'll be guns!...

 

Making fire arms is not all that hard to do...

Now with computers and  machinery to make blacksmith or even high tech "plastic" firearms.

But it's true something else needs to be done especially with the kids.

 

[Vambo]

1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Now with computers and  machinery to make blacksmith or even high tech "plastic" firearms.

But it's true something else needs to be done especially with the kids.

 

Parenting,,,bring back discipline.

[Westside Steve]

10 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I'm not even advocating for repealing the 2nd amendment. The comment was "only a good guy with a gun blah blah blah". That's not true. Or if by "stopping" you mean "after the shooter has killed a handful of people". The only real way to stop that is to completely remove the gun. 

Stricter regulations and mental health education funding is a good start

Obviously gang violence in the cities matters, but the root causes there are different. Restrictions around gun ownership would eventually improve that situation too though..

 

I'm not just picking on you when I say that if your goal is make the gun stats in the United States the same as Japan Australia England Etc then just making it a little bit more of a pain in the ass to get a gun really will do nothing. Honestly I'm not even a gun nut even though I have a couple. As I see it the biggest problem is the sensationalizing of school shootings. Yes they're big news. I also posted the stats that the how many they are and how many people died. Almost none compared to any other type of death. I also posted stats on shark attacks. And a few people that commit them or actually f****** crazy. So in order to stop it doesn't or less lunatics you really need to go zero tolerance. And when I say you don't care about murders in the hood I don't really mean that you are personally Cavalier about human life but seriously how many of the names can you list? The media doesn't care because it doesn't sell soap. Also the really liberal media doesn't care because they don't want to paint black people had a bad light. And the politicians don't care because they want the issue. Why else fight tooth and nail over something as meaningless as background checks? But I really don't think these people are purchasing their guns legally and even if they did wouldn't just give up ownership if they didn't pass a background test.

(And face it I have said often that the second amendment has been watered down as to be just about meaningless now. If the original intent was for the citizens to be able to fend off overreaching government force think about it. You think the United States Army is going to worry about a bunch of middle-aged guys with squirrel guns and some c-rations in their basement? Please.)

WSS

[MLD Woody]

19 hours ago, nickers said:

Let me clue you in on something "BUTTHEAD" As long as there are Machinists and Blacksmiths... There'll be guns!...

 

Making fire arms is not all that hard to do...

The barrier to entry increases significantly. 

[MLD Woody]

14 hours ago, Neo said:

But what I'm saying is what can you do? Criminals can get their hands on guns easily. All they need to do is break into someone's house and steal their guns, now they have a gun they can go rob a store or murder someone with that can't be traced back to them.

Or the thief sells it to someone for drugs and then it gets passed on, there's no telling how many times it changes hands. Unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible gun owners out there and is a huge problem.

I keep my guns locked up at all times except for the one I use for protection. You're not going to break into my house and find one my guns in a sock drawer or under a mattress.

That probably how a lot of accidental shootings happen involving children getting their hands on mom or dad's gun. Until you solve that problem, it's going to be hard to slow down .

In regards to your first paragraph: then why have any laws at all? Why is it illegal to take someone if people still do it? Why bother making stealing illegal if people still do it? It is a deterrent and the start of a culture shift, not an end all be all solution. 

Rome wasn't built in a day. Any meaningful change starts somewhere. We're the only developed country with this issue. We just keep throwing our hands up in there air like there's absolutely nothing we can do while people walk around with ARs and gun lobbyists rake in money. 

[MLD Woody]

14 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Frog in pot scenario

Yes, and society crumbled when seat belt laws were initiated and when indoor smoking was banned

[Westside Steve]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

In regards to your first paragraph: then why have any laws at all? Why is it illegal to take someone if people still do it? Why bother making stealing illegal if people still do it? It is a deterrent and the start of a culture shift, not an end all be all solution. 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Nor did it decline and fall in a day.  Neither will we...

Any meaningful change starts somewhere. We're the only developed country with this issue. We just keep throwing our hands up in there air like there's absolutely nothing we can do while people walk around with ARs and gun lobbyists rake in money. 

 

[nickers]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

The barrier to entry increases significantly. 

What kind of drivel is that?... The fact remains... As long as there have been guns and alcohol... It can never be eradicated as much as you like to have it happen.. Sorry but Guns and booze are here to stay ...

[MLD Woody]

6 minutes ago, nickers said:

What kind of drivel is that?... The fact remains... As long as there have been guns and alcohol... It can never be eradicated as much as you like to have it happen.. Sorry but Guns and booze are here to stay ...

What kind of drivel is that?

This belief that there's absolutely nothing that completely fix the problem so we shouldn't even attempt anything is so defeatist and dumb 

[nickers]

Just now, MLD Woody said:

What kind of drivel is that?

This belief that there's absolutely nothing that completely fix the problem so we shouldn't even attempt anything is so defeatist and dumb 

Thats like saying if you sling enough shit on the wall.. some of it might stick... Thats rather vague,...

[MLD Woody]

7 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I'm not just picking on you when I say that if your goal is make the gun stats in the United States the same as Japan Australia England Etc then just making it a little bit more of a pain in the ass to get a gun really will do nothing. Honestly I'm not even a gun nut even though I have a couple. As I see it the biggest problem is the sensationalizing of school shootings. Yes they're big news. I also posted the stats that the how many they are and how many people died. Almost none compared to any other type of death. I also posted stats on shark attacks. And a few people that commit them or actually f****** crazy. So in order to stop it doesn't or less lunatics you really need to go zero tolerance. And when I say you don't care about murders in the hood I don't really mean that you are personally Cavalier about human life but seriously how many of the names can you list? The media doesn't care because it doesn't sell soap. Also the really liberal media doesn't care because they don't want to paint black people had a bad light. And the politicians don't care because they want the issue. Why else fight tooth and nail over something as meaningless as background checks? But I really don't think these people are purchasing their guns legally and even if they did wouldn't just give up ownership if they didn't pass a background test.

(And face it I have said often that the second amendment has been watered down as to be just about meaningless now. If the original intent was for the citizens to be able to fend off overreaching government force think about it. You think the United States Army is going to worry about a bunch of middle-aged guys with squirrel guns and some c-rations in their basement? Please.)

WSS

It absolutely will do something. It brings us more in line with other developed countries that have gun ownership. Increasing any barrier to entry helps. It helps with reducing school shootings, gang violence, suicides, etc. 

You posted scho shooting deaths during a covid year. Of course they're lower. The fact that you're even suggesting there's an "acceptable level" of school shootings is insane to me. 

Any law that can help reduce gun violence, either in a school or in the inner city, is a positive. The "whataboutism" with gang violence being used to make sure no meaningful change actually happens is just petty and purposefully misleading. Like how you can't want climate change laws if you aren't also constantly angry about the rain forest. Or how you can't advocate for civil rights here if you aren't constantly angry about places in the middle east attacking civil rights. 

Again, adding barriers to entry will help. Background checks. Wait times. Etc. 

I've made your argument in the parentheses many times. Posters here would have you believe that they could defend against the US Military because they have an AR. They'll cite Vietnam or Afghanistan and not even consider why those are irrelevant. Defending against an intruder is one thing, defending against a government military is gun lover fetishism. 

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

What kind of drivel is that?

This belief that there's absolutely nothing that completely fix the problem so we shouldn't even attempt anything is so defeatist and dumb 

Plenty is already being done. There is no magic twanger utopian cure for evil people. Why not start a thread about knive violence?

Current laws need to be enforced. Gun registration solves absolutely nothing, except it would make haters happy to "get" the other side.

and it would help a corrupt gov like the one we have now, intimidate gun owners, and help them disarm Americans. Evil has always been. Illegal behavior has always been. Criminals break laws, good folks do not. going after the good folks to try to stem criminal violence is just either stupid, or belligerently political. The idea that every gun owner needs a psychiatric permission to be allowed to own a gun... it isn't a perfect science - all it would take is one liberal evaluator to decide that nobody is allowed to have a gun because no humans have the mental ability to never use a gun illegally.

   Stupid laws that solve absolutely nothing seem to be all the rage with the left. Everything is political "got yas". ...."got ya" s. whatever.