★ official gameday thread for ★ The BROWNS vs the falcunts ★

[hoorta]

18 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Larry, so what you are saying is a blind person listening to the Browns radio broadcast can never be as knowlegable as you?

I had a great description of the game, with analysis you didn't hear watching the game.

It is easy to be brave and go on 4th down, when you have nothing to lose.

In addition, I loved it that on the opening drive, when the announcers were calling for us to run Chubb, we took advantage of their overpursuit of the run, and passed fucked them out of the gun.

That shit is all good Larry, but ShitMyPantski, just like Marty has his asshole tighten up every fucking time he has his foot on the neck of the opponent.

1st and goal from the 1 and w don't smashouth run if necessary?

Sorry man, I hate ShitMyPantski. This is not a guy who knows how to win. He gave both this and the Jets game away.

 

Problem is, there's no one to take over now. Kev admitted he screwed up by not kicking the field goal on the opening drive.  He outsmarts himself too many times.

A healthy Browns team wins that game easily. Atlanta- to their credit ran the ball 14 straight times against our practice squad defensive line.  Didn't take rocket science or analytics coaching there. Hey, they can't stop us, let's keep on keeping on.   It was sickening to watch. If they had started that strategy from the get-go, it may not even have been as close as it was. 

The most discouraging thing to me is the Browns blowing two games against the relatively lightweight Jets and Falcons, the schedule now gets tougher by an order of magnitude- starting this week against the Chargers, and really doesn't get any easier until we play the Texans in December. Wouldn't surprise me in the least Cleveland being underdogs the next seven games. 

[Canton Dawg]

For those who think Watson is going to take us to the promised land, Terry Pluto has some news for you. . .
 

While Waiting For Watson, can we have a real talk about the Browns?
– Terry Pluto’s Postgame Scribbles

Yes, Deshaun Watson will help the Browns when he returns from his 11-game suspension, but something else is very wrong.

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my notebook after the Browns lost 23-20 in Atlanta:

1. Given Jacoby Brissett’s rocky second half and horrendous back-to-back plays near the end of the game, the drumbeat for Deshaun Watson will sound louder than John Adams in his prime banging his drum from the old Cleveland Stadium bleachers. Watson still has seven more games on his suspension.
 

2. I’ll set aside the question of exactly how well and how quickly Watson will play when he returns on December 4. That will be 23 months since he last played in a regular NFL season game. But the Browns have more problems than Brissett.

3. The Browns defense allowed 13 points in the fourth quarter in Atlanta. Before you bring up the “Browns didn’t have Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Taven Bryan” explanation, can we do some research? With those starters, the Browns allowed 17 points in the fourth quarter to Baker Mayfield in Carolina. They allowed 17 points in the fourth quarter (14 in the final 1:55) to Joe Flacco and the Jets. Only against Pittsburgh (3 points) did the Browns defense play a good fourth quarter.
 

4. It’s not just the QB play. The defense was supposed to be the strength of the team, at least until Watson plays. But what have we seen from Defensive Coordinator Joe Woods and his lads? They can’t make key stops. And they have yet to face an elite QB.
 

5. Consider this game: Atlanta had scoring drives of 75-73-64 yards. That’s 212 yards in the fourth quarter! Know how many passes Atlanta completed on these drives? One. That pass covered 42 yards (another blown coverage). But the other 170 yards in the final period were on the ground.
 

6. Atlanta star running back Cordarrelle Patterson had only one carry in the second half. He was dealing with a cranky knee. Undrafted Ball State product Caleb Huntley had only one carry this season. He rushed for 56 yards in 10 carries, including a TD. Backup rookie running back Tyler Allgeier had 84 yards rushing. They even put defensive back/return man Avery Williams into the game and he had a 21-yard run.
 

7. The point is the guys running over the Browns for 202 yards were mostly backups. So it’s not as if the Browns reserves on the defensive line were facing the best of Atlanta’s roster. QB Marcus Mariota completed seven passes all day. Nothing tricky about Atlanta’s game plan in the second half: Run the ball until they stop us.
 

8. So this is about more than Kevin Stefanski’s play-calling, which I didn’t like. I also think he needs to look at things differently. Stefanski said on going for it on a 4th-and-3 near the goal line: “We wanted to score 7 (points) in the red zone ... we didn’t come away with points and that’s on me.”
 

9. Upon Further Review: The Browns have to understand what kind of team they have – and take three points early in the game. Kick the field goal. Yes, analytics lovers will say, “Go for it.” But that all depends on your QB – and your offense. Dating back to last season, the Browns have had problems running the ball into the end zone near the goal line.
 

10. But the bottom line is the Browns defense has to shape up. It’s up to Woods and Stefanski to make that happen.

[hoorta]

39 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

For those who think Watson is going to take us to the promised land, Terry Pluto has some news for you. . .
 

While Waiting For Watson, can we have a real talk about the Browns?
– Terry Pluto’s Postgame Scribbles

Yes, Deshaun Watson will help the Browns when he returns from his 11-game suspension, but something else is very wrong.
10. But the bottom line is the Browns defense has to shape up. It’s up to Woods and Stefanski to make that happen.

Want to know something that will really scare the beejeebus out of you?  The Browns have yet to play an elite offense. That changes Sunday when Justin Herbert and the NFL's #1 passing crew pays a visit to the Lakefront....  

[SdBacker80]

[Flugel]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:17 PM, Browns149 said:

They just don’t seem to have good coaching ANYWHERE

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Terry Pluto has some news for you. .

I like Pluto and usually agree with his thinking.

...and he told it like it was for our defense.  With backup running backs nobody's heard of, they smashed the ball right down our throats for scores for the whole of the 4th quarter.  I was watching their second drive down our throats when I found myself thinking like a basketball coach, "Call Time Out!"   Ya know?  Just to stop the run?  Huddle up on the sidelines and tell one another, THEY'RE GONNA RUN THE BALL!  TACKLE HIM!      But sadly, our DLinemen were no match for the Falcons OL.   

And 'we knew' that the Falcons were the 5th best running team in the league before the game.  That's not just about the RB's, it says something about the OL's run blocking abilities.  I was actually quite surprised that they passed so much earlier in the game.....but they adjusted that at halftime.  Their running abilities and our decimated front 7 was a baaad  matchup.   Our PS RB John Kelly would've torn us up from Atlanta's backfield.  

[jrb12711]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:42 PM, tiamat63 said:

 I'm likely not going to go back and read responses from this thread.  But looking at stat lines from avg yards carried per, 3rd down conversions, drive totals, etc etc.   It really speaks to where this team is weakest.

QB

DL.  

Where were the Browns worst area's today? (and every week)

Avg depth of target throws (QB)

YPC surrendered and explosive runs given up.   (DL)

 

 You really don't have to say anything more than that.   I just don't understand some of the bitching when the flaws of this team are evident and easily exploitable.    If you believed or were lead to believe this team was somehow supremely talented, then I don't know whose ass your head was up this entire time then?    Because it sure wasn't mine. 

Normally I'm not the "go find veterans" a month into the season, but our DT are literally playing at the worst clips (per PFF) in the NFL. There's literally no way a dude like Suh could be worse, why not take a low risk?

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Normally I'm not the "go find veterans" a month into the season, but our DT are literally playing at the worst clips (per PFF) in the NFL. There's literally no way a dude like Suh could be worse, why not take a low risk?

 

 That's assuming Suh wants to join this team.  Remember, he has a pick on when and where he wishes to play.   

 

Edit: I'm keeping an eye for out going, lame duck type coaching staffs and undervalued players on those types of teams. 

 If I'm Andrew Berry, I'm paying attention to the situation in Carolina.  Because they have depth at IDL and Bravvion Roy would be available in an early fire sale.

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

 That's assuming Suh wants to join this team.  Remember, he has a pick on when and where he wishes to play.   

 

Edit: I'm keeping an eye for out going, lame duck type coaching staffs and undervalued players on those types of teams. 

 If I'm Andrew Berry, I'm paying attention to the situation in Carolina.  Because they have depth at IDL and Bravvion Roy would be available in an early fire sale.

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

[SdBacker80]

Okay Suh signs with us. Myles comes back healthy same with Clowney.

We still needs Jacob Phillips to play better.  Other than a big stop towards the end of the game- what I saw When he was clean He was sniffing in the wrong hole and over pursuing stuff all day.

Taki needs to learn how to shed blockers better.  I hope we limit his snap count more. 

Here’s my complaint before you all get your panties in wad that I don’t like Joe Woods.  I would move JOK all around and I would send him after the QB more…but I think we have to stop the run much better first to get to some of those 2nd and 3rd and longs.

Can we all admit we play better man coverage until we see the Ravens we should probably play it more?

Im not wasting anymore key strokes this week on this team.

Go Tribe/Guards. go Buckeyes 

[SdBacker80]

18 hours ago, Flugel said:

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I KNOW our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

Fixed it for you. 
 

[nickers]

20 hours ago, Flugel said:

Unfortunately, most of the good coaching you have seen was from the 2 teams that weren't supposed to beat the Browns.

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

Well then it's clear he needs a gig as an OC... He's too cunty to be a HC...

[tiamat63]

6 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

 I would have no reason to believe it isn't for a ring chase.  He's already got one, not much point in beating up your body further unless you're in the hunt for a 2nd. 

 Even then it's still barely a stop gap option.  He'd be coming in on a pitch count, which means fewer snaps as a pass rusher - something he's been pretty good at from the IDL.     Increase his snap count and that likely means you put even more wear and tear on him should you make a playoff push.  

There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

[SdBacker80]

7 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 I would have no reason to believe it isn't for a ring chase.  He's already got one, not much point in beating up your body further unless you're in the hunt for a 2nd. 

 Even then it's still barely a stop gap option.  He'd be coming in on a pitch count, which means fewer snaps as a pass rusher - something he's been pretty good at from the IDL.     Increase his snap count and that likely means you put even more wear and tear on him should you make a playoff push.  

There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

I was listening to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller not too long they mentioned Suh’s average snap count was actually pretty high just last year (I want to say in the 40s). 

He’s good for a couple splash plays, a personal foul but at least he might keep a backer clean more often than not.

But he ain’t coming here but it wouldn’t surprise me if our FO and Coaches said no anyway. 
 

I mentioned him before Eddie Goldman…but he apparently retired. Does he want to come back?  And I’ll admit and moving away from our line and to our backers.  I thought Anthony Walker was pretty overrated…I think we miss him a lot I don’t think Philips is the guy at least not full time. 
 

[tiamat63]

9 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I was listening to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller not too long they mentioned Suh’s average snap count was actually pretty high just last year (I want to say in the 40s). 

He’s good for a couple splash plays, a personal foul but at least he might keep a backer clean more often than not.

But he ain’t coming here but it wouldn’t surprise me if our FO and Coaches said no anyway. 
 

I mentioned him before Eddie Goldman…but he apparently retired. Does he want to come back?  And I’ll admit and moving away from our line and to our backers.  I thought Anthony Walker was pretty overrated…I think we miss him a lot I don’t think Philips is the guy at least not full time. 
 

 

 Don't forget, the large part of that increase was due to the Bucks losing Vita Vea in week 10.     While Anthony Walker isn't great, he isn't so disgustingly out of position like Phillips is.   He actually has a bit of discipline and awareness in coverage.  The real problem is he's a bit undersized and lacks any real pop on ball carriers.

 Phillips is a special teamer and backup.  Taki is almost a traditional SAM, and he gets pulled off the field quite a bit when we're in nickel and dime.  Might help to explain why his level of play looks good so far this year.    Either way, looking left to right, most of our defensive front 7 are highly flawed as individual players.  And none of those flaws allow that group to be better than the sum of their parts.

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, jrb12711 said:

allegedly the Browns were on his list of teams to join. Could be wrong, too, but I would cast doubt a month into not being employed he's being super picky unless it's truly a ring chasing thing.

Something's gotta give though, that's for sure. I get you can't polish a turd but it's brutal to watch.

I haven't heard that and I live in Tampa and listen to a lot of sports radio here.  We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

[gumby73]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

  There are no real short term FA answers.  That's why I've turned my attention to trades and the draft.

was expecting Denver to make a offer on D'Ernest Johnson this week.. We missed on Denver's DT DJ Jones as a FA from 9'ers.. DJ's locked up in Denver 4 years.. A green dot LB'er in Denver? Not worth giving up DJ, not knowing Hunt's where about's next season 

Andrew Berry's roll over cap saving plan, I'm not a fan of (like bringing Drew Forbes back/ was a real need?).. but the Ravens keep spending it  

[gumby73]

23 hours ago, Flugel said:

I think our Offensive Line Coach (Callahan) and his Assistant are keepers.  I also like our RB Coach Stump Mitchell too.  It's tough to evaluate our OC because Stefanski seems like that's all he wants to do is call plays and run the offense.  

Let's see what they do...

 Flugel wins the coaching aftermath of the week ^^  🏆

Now can we talk about ST coach Mike Priefer?  Choice of Ronnie Harrison as a gunner? Does he know to let nice punts roll to the goal-line? 🏈

edit-- RB/KR J.Ford to IR- https://www.brownszone.com/2022/10/04/rookie-jerome-ford-placed-on-ir-with-ankle-injury/

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I haven't heard that and I live in Tampa and listen to a lot of sports radio here.  We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

Callie Brownson?

[Orion]

2 hours ago, gumby73 said:

was expecting Denver to make a offer on D'Ernest Johnson this week..

They put Ford on IR today so D'E is on double deck.  (D'E made a nice ST tackle against Atl)

 

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

We could really use a man named Suh on our IDL right now - but what's the attraction for him here?

Well, if we would've won these two stupid games that we lost there would've been an attraction.    Now, we're a deep fall-back.  

I like Stefanski.  I've liked him right from the start.  But I haven't liked the analytical approach to 4th down.  It's too aggressive.  4th and too long.  4th and our side of the field.  4th and pass up the FG.   I mean, sure, when you're behind on the scoreboard and the clock is about to get important, then you can turn up the aggression somewhat on 4th downs.  But there's a time and a place.  Coming off the field with your heads down and no points because you put together a long, sustained drive that stalled inside the 5 yard line and didn't take the 3 points, that hurts.  And it hurts worse than if you kicked the FG and missed...because then you can blame the kicker and not the offense (so much).

My philosophy:  Early in the game, take the points that are there for you.  Don't force things until you're forced to.  

[tiamat63]

I'm still watching the All-22 and charting snaps.  I always end up writing down side questions, this has been my biggest one so far this season.

- Is it just me, or are defenses playing more 2 high even on early downs?  I could swear most of these coordinators are working with a ton more cover 4.    Found this when I went looking for statistical answers.

 

Rates of Cover-1 man have dropped to 19.8% [in 2022] from a four-year average of 26.5%. Schemes with multiple deep safeties have jumped, including Cover-2 zone (up to 13.8% usage in 2022 from a four-year average of 11.2%) and Quarters (up to 14.7% usage in 2022 from a four-year average of 11.4%).

 

Well then, that's certainly something. 

 

[Flugel]

6 minutes ago, Orion said:

They put Ford on IR today so D'E is on double deck.  (D'E made a nice ST tackle against Atl)

 

Well, if we would've won these two stupid games that we lost there would've been an attraction.    Now, we're a deep fall-back.  

I like Stefanski.  I've liked him right from the start.  But I haven't liked the analytical approach to 4th down.  It's too aggressive.  4th and too long.  4th and our side of the field.  4th and pass up the FG.   I mean, sure, when you're behind on the scoreboard and the clock is about to get important, then you can turn up the aggression somewhat on 4th downs.  But there's a time and a place.  Coming off the field with your heads down and no points because you put together a long, sustained drive that stalled inside the 5 yard line and didn't take the 3 points, that hurts.  And it hurts worse than if you kicked the FG and missed...because then you can blame the kicker and not the offense (so much).

My philosophy:  Early in the game(s), take the points that are there for you.  Don't force things until you're forced to.  

Well said Orion!  Yes, take those points especially on the road against a team that matched up extremely well with our weaknesses on defense extremely well.  IMO, when our offense gets closer to the goal line why not QB sneak a guy that's great at it instead of the extra tenths of a second it takes to hand off to a RB sentenced to running into a crowded phone booth.  Asking a backup QB to throw the ball into a crowded end zone when you're inside 2 or 3 yard line.  Sounds like we're talking about situational football here that needs to be practiced a little bit more during the week of prep.

STs needs situational football at practice too.  It could even be something as silly as getting 11 people that are supposed to be on a specified unit.  

Defense definitely needs situational football practice beginning with pre-snap reads in tandem with down and distances (and the opponent's tendencies).  The 2 highest paid guys on our Dline are injured and won't be anywhere close to 100% if they play this week. 

You have your reasons for liking Stefanski and I'm sure you can defend them.  The thing I really wish he'd do is empower his OC to do all the duties of an OC.  Again, we won a playoff game scoring 48 points when Van Pelt was the OC that called the plays.  Adversity is here and getting Stefanski to oversee all 3 phases instead of mostly focusing on his play-calling duties would change a lot of minds for the better about him IMO.  

[SdBacker80]

On 10/4/2022 at 1:43 PM, tiamat63 said:

 

 Don't forget, the large part of that increase was due to the Bucks losing Vita Vea in week 10.     While Anthony Walker isn't great, he isn't so disgustingly out of position like Phillips is.   He actually has a bit of discipline and awareness in coverage.  The real problem is he's a bit undersized and lacks any real pop on ball carriers.

 Phillips is a special teamer and backup.  Taki is almost a traditional SAM, and he gets pulled off the field quite a bit when we're in nickel and dime.  Might help to explain why his level of play looks good so far this year.    Either way, looking left to right, most of our defensive front 7 are highly flawed as individual players.  And none of those flaws allow that group to be better than the sum of their parts.

Not really he played a high snap count throughout the year.  
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SuhxNd99/gamelog/2021/

[D Bone]

Great play JB!!  Dude is a man. 

[D Bone]

Huge 3rd here

[D Bone]

Well, that wasn't what JB wanted. 

[syd]

8 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Sickening

you do realize you are posting in last weeks game day thread 

[syd]

2 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I was in the sun, thanks for watching my back

so you think about what 5-6 plays cost us are 3 loss's