◆ "The" 🏈 Official BROWNS at steelers GAMEDAY THREAD Week 18. 🏈 Right here <---<<

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

lot to unpack here from this well thought out post.  I got to run but some quick points.

1. Joe is not the only scapegoat.  Our Special Teams were awful. He should be gone too.  Our much maligned IDL was bad.  We had some personnel issues after injuries with our LBs.  John Johnson was awful (he’s hard to root for) and our secondary was directly responsible for a couple loses this year.  If Myles doesn’t joyride I think we beat Atlanta.   Kevin had a very questionable year as a play caller.  The finer details were just off all year.  We had the feeling Jacoby would set us back this season far from it.
 

Bottom line, you all pointed out what Joe was missing but don’t forget he was given a lot.  
 

2. I hate the Steelers but their coach and coaches and front office are light years better.  I hate to hear the praise but it is warranted.  They got a lot of help that game- I whined about it too.  Tomlin HAS NOT had a losing season and its Remarkable considering Ben was on the decline for years and he had a rookie this year.  Compare our rosters would you take their roster or our roster? 
 

3. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but i believe our #1 WR this year performed well and to his normal standard and above standard in some respects. 

Well done!   I like that we have somewhat different angles on things; and you do open my eyes to some things.  When it comes to Woods, I'm okay with them firing him as long as they upgrade his Coordinator position.  We've had horrific Defensive Coordinators like Ray Horton Hears-a-Boo TWICE and Bob Slowik early on giving opposing WRs 15-20 yard cushions (forfeiting the chance for his corners to compete).  Jimmy O'Neil wasn't ready to be a DC here either.  He took over a Northwestern team that was 7-2 in 2020 and they slipped to 3-9 his 1st year in 2021 and 1-11 in 2022.  

About #2 above - The Steelers: I haven't seen 1 Head Coach hired under their owner's criteria and philosophy fail from Noll to Cowher to Tomlin.  The funny thing in all this is Haslam was a minority owner there (like only 1% but still had an ideal opportunity to learn the philosophy, hiring criteria and patience for player development - see Terry Bradshaw's miserable 1st 4 years vrs the HOF player he became the rest of the way).   Unfortunately, Haslam didn't really learn or understand the the main reasons Pittsburgh won consistently.  It's just the opposite, it's felt like he's been learning a foreign language.  Like the line in the movie "Remember the Titans" said - "attitude reflects leadership."  FAs, draftees and coaches come here thinking their dreams are about to come true only to see how badly this franchise is orchestrated by Haslam.  For example, are we setting up compatible philosophies between HC and GM when Stefanski got hired 2 weeks before Andrew Berry?  The Browns went a long time before Berry was okay with anyone cutting any of his draft choices.   I can see where this would cause some friction between the GM and HC. EDIT: The other place Pittsburgh always separated themselves from the Browns and FO was in the draft from early 70s right up until recent years.  I think they're already on the 3rd generation of Rooney in the ownership; and it looks like their major advantage in the draft has decreased.  

Stefanski did do a good job with Brissett; so thank you for pointing it out.  I totally agree.  He kind of did the same thing with Baker the year we made the playoffs getting a ratio of 26 TD passes to 8 INTs.  However, the Browns have someone else being paid to be the OC and someone else paid to be the QB Coach, they also have an OL Coach and an Assistant OL Coach, a WR Coach and an Assistant WR Coach, a SR Offensive Assistant and an Offensive Assistant while STs and Defense struggled bad against some weaker teams the Browns should have beaten.   The 2 Coordinators that had total autonomy should have had Stefanski so far up their ass that he was tickling their tonsils.  Stefanski needs to be a Head Coach here rather than bury his face into the spreadsheets.  Pro football is played by humans that need to be held accountable.  You can't hold players accountable if your only worried about calling plays.  He's not Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton or Sean McVay. 

I still remember why Shanahan wanted out of Cleveland - somebody in the FO called him during the game trying to tell him what to do.  Isn't that very similar with what Depodesta does with Stefanski?  In the movie Moneyball there was a rift between Manager Art Howe and GM Billy Beane and his Assistant Paul Depodesta.  They were trying to force Howe to play certain players he didn't want out there.  I think we all got the sense Depodesta was forcing Stefanski to play Schwartz before he was ready for a workload that was too much too soon.   Experienced Coaches know these kinds of things like an Art Howe that was the AL Manager of the Year and probably even Stefanski who I'm guessing gets power-played by Depodesta sometimes and other times by Berry. Could you ever see Rooney asking Chuck Noll or Bill Cowher to have someone like Paul Depodesta or Andrew Berry approve every single thing he wants to do?  That's why they have continuity there with only 3 Head Coaches since the early 70s and we're firing coaches and coordinators galore.  The sick pit in my stomach tells me we're never going to get the Sean Paytons while Haslam empowers Depodesta.  I hope that changes.

Thanks for letting me vent!

Edited January 12, 2023 by Flugel

[mjp28]

On 1/11/2023 at 2:17 PM, Flugel said:

Well done!   I like that we have somewhat different angles on things; and you do open my eyes to some things.  When it comes to Woods, I'm okay with them firing him as long as they upgrade his Coordinator position.  We've had horrific Defensive Coordinators like Ray Horton Hears-a-Boo TWICE and Bob Slowik early on giving opposing WRs 15-20 yard cushions (forfeiting the chance for his corners to compete).  Jimmy O'Neil wasn't ready to be a DC here either.  He took over a Northwestern team that was 7-2 in 2020 and they slipped to 3-9 his 1st year in 2021 and 1-11 in 2022.  

About #2 above - The Steelers: I haven't seen 1 Head Coach hired under their owner's criteria and philosophy fail from Noll to Cowher to Tomlin.  The funny thing in all this is Haslam was a minority owner there (like only 1% but still had an ideal opportunity to learn the philosophy, hiring criteria and patience for player development - see Terry Bradshaw's miserable 1st 4 years vrs the HOF player he became the rest of the way).   Unfortunately, Haslam didn't really learn or understand the the main reasons Pittsburgh won consistently.  It's just the opposite, it's felt like he's been learning a foreign language.  Like the line in the movie "Remember the Titans" said - "attitude reflects leadership."  FAs, draftees and coaches come here thinking their dreams are about to come true only to see how badly this franchise is orchestrated by Haslam.  For example, are we setting up compatible philosophies between HC and GM when Stefanski got hired 2 weeks before Andrew Berry?  The Browns went a long time before Berry was okay with anyone cutting any of his draft choices.   I can see where this would cause some friction between the GM and HC. EDIT: The other place Pittsburgh always separated themselves from the Browns and FO was in the draft from early 70s right up until recent years.  I think they're already on the 3rd generation of Rooney in the ownership; and it looks like their major advantage in the draft has decreased.  

Stefanski did do a good job with Brissett; so thank you for pointing it out.  I totally agree.  He kind of did the same thing with Baker the year we made the playoffs getting a ratio of 26 TD passes to 8 INTs.  However, the Browns have someone else being paid to be the OC and someone else paid to be the QB Coach, they also have an OL Coach and an Assistant OL Coach, a WR Coach and an Assistant WR Coach, a SR Offensive Assistant and an Offensive Assistant while STs and Defense struggled bad against some weaker teams the Browns should have beaten.   The 2 Coordinators that had total autonomy should have had Stefanski so far up their ass that he was tickling their tonsils.  Stefanski needs to be a Head Coach here rather than bury his face into the spreadsheets.  Pro football is played by humans that need to be held accountable.  You can't hold players accountable if your only worried about calling plays.  He's not Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton or Sean McVay. 

I still remember why Shanahan wanted out of Cleveland - somebody in the FO called him during the game trying to tell him what to do.  Isn't that very similar with what Depodesta does with Stefanski?  In the movie Moneyball there was a rift between Manager Art Howe and GM Billy Beane and his Assistant Paul Depodesta.  They were trying to force Howe to play certain players he didn't want out there.  I think we all got the sense Depodesta was forcing Stefanski to play Schwartz before he was ready for a workload that was too much too soon.   Experienced Coaches know these kinds of things like an Art Howe that was the AL Manager of the Year and probably even Stefanski who I'm guessing gets power-played by Depodesta sometimes and other times by Berry. Could you ever see Rooney asking Chuck Noll or Bill Cowher to have someone like Paul Depodesta or Andrew Berry approve every single thing he wants to do?  That's why they have continuity there with only 3 Head Coaches since the early 70s and we're firing coaches and coordinators galore.  The sick pit in my stomach tells me we're never going to get the Sean Paytons while Haslam empowers Depodesta.  I hope that changes.

Thanks for letting me vent!

Interesting reads by both of you  SD and flugs.   Nice to go back and reminisce about the cantankerous  2022 Cleveland BROWNS  Season.    And look ahead to the  2023 Cleveland BROWNS Season.    OMG it's here already leading up to the Draft, then the 2023 NFL Important Dates  leading up to the 2023 training camp and then preseason and we do it all again. 

Wow, we've been through a whole lot of these cycles you have to think back to the earliest ones you can remember  including the  AFL and NFL Merger  and they moved my beloved BROWNS to the new AFC !   OH NO !   Now you don't give it a second thought. 

Just goes to show we've been through better  -and-   unfortunately worse, this will be just one more.

[Orion]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:04 PM, Flugel said:

Shifting gears and just venting at nobody in particular.

...somebody get Flugel a Snickers.