Does Stefanski deserve the hate?

[Orion]

64k question.

We know that Haslem & DePo are on the analytics train.  (as more & more teams & coaches are hopping on as well)  If you ask me, more and more coaches are doing stupid things on 4th down.  I watched the Eagles attempt to analytically HAND the Patriots a victory in week 1.  But the Patriots stupidly foregoed (is that a word?) a FG to try for a 1st down and ultimately lost the game because of it.  (just a few minutes later they needed a TD to win, instead of a FG)

We know that DePo said last year that he's not interested in 4 yard runs but wants 13 yard passes.

We know that Stef has to report to DePo & Jimmuh on Friday with the intended game plan.  If we were to replace Stef with Van Pelt, would he have to do the same things that Stef is doing because of a corporate mandate?  

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

64k question.

We know that Haslem & DePo are on the analytics train.  (as more & more teams & coaches are hopping on as well)  If you ask me, more and more coaches are doing stupid things on 4th down.  I watched the Eagles attempt to analytically HAND the Patriots a victory in week 1.  But the Patriots stupidly foregoed (is that a word?) a FG to try for a 1st down and ultimately lost the game because of it.  (just a few minutes later they needed a TD to win, instead of a FG)

We know that DePo said last year that he's not interested in 4 yard runs but wants 13 yard passes.

We know that Stef has to report to DePo & Jimmuh on Friday with the intended game plan.  If we were to replace Stef with Van Pelt, would he have to do the same things that Stef is doing because of a corporate mandate?  

Art Howe couldn't stand Front Office DePo when he was with the Oakland A's interfering with his coaching job/strategies.  Looks very familiar to what he's doing right now.  

Okay, so they have their $230 million $ QB that is playing the worst football of his NFL career.  Kevin Stefanski, who feels obligated to Front Office DePo for being "his guy," is running out of time as the next head on the chopping block.

Anyone think the set-up sucks?  Hold off before answering that question.  I remember back when Offensive Coordinator Lindy Infante was hired before the 1986 season that Browns went on to win 12 games in.  He was spreading defenses out horizontally from sideline to sideline.  Brian Brennan led our WRs with 55 receptions (almost exclusively on 3rd downs).  Meanwhile, as most of our fans only remember Mack and Byner - lesser known RB Herman Fontenot caught 47 passes (almost exclusively on 3rd downs too).  Defenses wanted to blitz the crap out of our cement shoe'd Bernie Kosar; so Infante was a step ahead of them throwing swing passes/wheel routes to Fontenot in the gray areas between the hook zone and flats.  Brennan was the guy doing the crossing routes between the hook zones in "Operation Exploit Thy Blitz."  Furthermore, the spread formations with multiple receivers would open up the seams for Ozzie, Slaughter and Langhorne.  NONE of our offensive players seemed confused when Infante was there.  3 step drops all had reasonable short receiving routes for quick releases from QB.  Guys were open and QB was defined as accurate and cerebral. Timing and chemistry weren't an issue.  Playcalling was never an issue.  Situational personnel looked WAY BETTER than the crackpipe idea today that Harrison Bryant needs to be the go-to guy for our struggling QB (which is just as bat-shit nuts as pretending Anthony Schwartz needed to be on the field on 3rd down situations too many times for comfort once upon a time).

What came next?  Lindy Infante got hired to be the Head Coach of the Green Bay Packers in 1988.  HC Marty Schottenheimer decided he wanted to keep Infante's Offense which was a seemingly good idea.  Unfortunately, the new Offensive Coordinator Joe Pendry didn't have the same Coaching background that would have him understanding how to orchestrate Infante's offense nearly the same way.  It was very disorganized and rarely ever looked as efficient as it was with Infante running it. On a MNF game vrs Houston the Browns were in chip shot FG range but they let time expire with timeouts remaining with no points to show for it.  The Browns ended up losing a close game; and friction between Marty and Modell was heating up.  Long story short, the new OC didn't understand the Offense his HC wanted him running.

Fast forward to MNF and the Trainwreck we saw on Offense. Nobody was on the same page.  There was no timing or chemistry. The QB was overwhelmed.  The pass pro on the edges was a disaster.  Harrison Bryant was more of a priority in our pass game than David Njoku; and we paid dearly for that crack pipe logic.  More specifically, Cleveland offensive players and the offensive coaches looked very confused.  If they can clean all of that up in a short week - I'll celebrate the pleasant surprise of the year.  

If I had to guess.... I think the problem is Paul DePodesta doesn't trust "his guy" Stefanski enough to fully empower him with running the offense; so there's an incompatible committee trying to do this as MNF clearly illustrated to anyone with a brain and a pulse.  That's where the Browns are - so where is the owner? Stay tuned...

[ballpeen]

Just a few thoughts on the above posts.

 

First, i think you blow way out of proportion exactly what Depo might have to do with the gameplan.  I don't think Depo sits there with a red pen like a teacher crossing out this, this, and this and telling them to insert this, this, and this.

 

Plus, reporting to them on Friday is way late to change a game plan since the plan has already been communicated and practiced by the team.

 

Art Howe?  I am sure there was resistance.  That was what, 25-30 years ago?  It was a new concept then.  He was an old time baseball guy.   I am not sure using Art Howe is some sort of proof since every team uses the analytic process today and Art Howes method as been buried for 15  or so years now.

 

This isn't a dig at anybody, so don't take my comment personal, but I think we have a lot of posters stuck in the past and they aren't paying attention to what is happening in sports across the board.

 

On another board i got ripped maybe 15-20 years ago when I said the NFL was headed to a spread type RPO system.  My proof was for people to go to any HS football game and that is all teams were running.  In turn the colleges had to do that.  In the end, the NFL was going to have to change.  Well, here we are.  Look at the QB's of today v the QB's of 10 years ago.  The change has happened.

 

JMO

[Orion]

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

remember back when Offensive Coordinator Lindy Infante was hired before the 1986 season that Browns went on to win 12 games in.............Timing and chemistry weren't an issue. 

Well, back then the starters actually played in the preseason games so there was a better chemistry already groomed before the season started.  Now that's happening in the first month of the season.

[ballpeen]

16 minutes ago, Orion said:

Well, back then the starters actually played in the preseason games so there was a better chemistry already groomed before the season started.  Now that's happening in the first month of the season.

Not only that, free agency was different back then.  Teams could protect maybe 35 players.  You didn't have as manytop players changing teams which also lead to continuity.

 

Back then I weighed a lot less, hadn't lost hair, and felt pretty good.  But, that was back then...lol

[Flugel]

42 minutes ago, Orion said:

Well, back then the starters actually played in the preseason games so there was a better chemistry already groomed before the season started.  Now that's happening in the first month of the season.

Good point!   Having said that, a lot of teams are scrimmaging starters vrs starters against the preseason opponent they will be playing 2-3 days later (this way they can control/prevent their QBs from being hit). We did this with Philly that I read about; and I think there was 1 other team that happened with.

To your point, there was 1 team that did start their QB all preseason - and sadly enough - he was the only one that threw a TD pass Monday despite being worthy of the boo's he heard from his home fans the rest of the night.  Our offense wasn't quite as capable while our passing game gave up 2 TDs.

FWIW, when the Browns run the straight ahead routes down the sidelines - Corners LOVE and fully APPRECIATE that kind of help from our game planning committee.  The sideline nullifies 50% of their worry.  Throwing the ball out of bounds on some of those helped the corners as well; while the restricted time to throw from our edges also helped.  Seemed like we needed quicker throws to shorter routes.  It also seemed like we needed better route adjustments to a QB under duress all night.  Then again, it doesn't feel like this offense ever prepares for TJ Watt or how his domination shortens time for a passer to throw.  We just look at him like he'll fully cooperate with anything our offense wants to do; but he never does cooperate with these offensive crack-house game plans. 

 

 

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

teams are scrimmaging starters vrs starters against the preseason opponent they will be playing 2-3 days later

Yup, we did that.  But the backups were the ones playing in the game.  I'm sure it helped a little bit, but as you said, it's very controlled such that players don't get hurt.

[Browns149]

19 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yup, we did that.  But the backups were the ones playing in the game.  I'm sure it helped a little bit, but as you said, it's very controlled such that players don't get hurt.

The scrimmages are better than regular practice, but they are still just practice. They are not going game speed and not hitting at game speed

I have a feeling that more coaches want to play players more in the exhibition season, but eggheads in the front office don’t want that

[The Junkyard Dog]

I don't 100 percent blame Stefanski for our problems on the offensive side of the ball so far, no. Watson needs to take guilt for it, and the OL at some points also. His play calling has not been the best, but has been some missed execution on the good plays he did call, also. But at the end of the day, right or wrong, the HC is always the first to go, so he needs to figure it out and quick; that's just the reality of it.