There are NO such thing as "palestinians". Learn HISTORY

[Westside Steve]

8 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

All of those places will shoot people who try to enter their country without permission. So which way do you think the refugees will go? 

So how fucked up is Ethiopia that "migrants" are risking their lives to get into Saudi arabia.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

1 minute ago, Westside Steve said:

So how fucked up is Ethiopia that "migrants" are risking their lives to get into Saudi arabia.

WSS

However bad it was, it's gotten worse since the Ukraine conflict because of lost grain imports. 

[calfoxwc]

America needs phasers set to "stun" at the border. And, spread a rumor that there are now piranhas everywhere in that river.

[jbluhm86]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:40 AM, calfoxwc said:

...Show me where the Israelis burned babies alive in their cribs, beheaded babies, raped and murdered men, women and children, shooting children down in front of their parents, committing surprise unlimited mass murder worse in history except for the Holocaust.

   

Read pretty much the entire Old Testament, if we're conflating Israeli's with Jews.

[jbluhm86]

On 10/16/2023 at 11:43 PM, Jax said:

Little warped there I think, you have one violent group attacking a defending state that has all rights to it's land.

One question: who determined that either the Israelis or Palestinians have those rights to the land?

[calfoxwc]

18 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

Read pretty much the entire Old Testament, if we're conflating Israeli's with Jews.

Old Testament superseded by the New Testament.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

One question: who determined that either the Israelis or Palestinians have those rights to the land?

the palestinians/arabic haters did. They refused to have a state, they demanded the Jews not have one, they refused to have their state next to Jews, so they screwed themselves over.

[jbluhm86]

10 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

Old Testament superseded by the New Testament.

That's religious moral relativism.

Slavery in America was superseded by the 13th amendment, but that doesn't magically make the atrocities suffered by people under slavery disappear as well.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

That's religious moral relativism.

Slavery in America was superseded by the 13th amendment, but that doesn't magically make the atrocities suffered by people under slavery disappear as well.

no it isn't and I didn't say it did. The Jews were slaves back then. Now they are beheaded as babies, raped, murdered, kidnapped, tortured....

did you have a point?

[jbluhm86]

10 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

the palestinians/arabic haters did. They refused to have a state, they demanded the Jews not have one, they refused to have their state next to Jews, so they screwed themselves over.

The modern state of Israel came into existence via a UN mandate. A mandate in which land was taken away from people who were already living there and had been living there for generations to be divided up into a brand new state for the Jewish diaspora.

It would be akin to the UN creating a mandate to take the northeastern part of Ohio to create a nation state for the illegal immigrants coming up from Mexico and telling the existing people living there that their land was not theirs anymore and telling them to leave.

[calfoxwc]

1 minute ago, jbluhm86 said:

The modern state of Israel came into existence via a UN mandate. A mandate in which land was taken away from people who were already living there and had been living there for generations to be divided up into a brand new state for the Jewish diaspora.

It would be akin to the UN creating a mandate to take the northeastern part of Ohio to create a nation state for the illegal immigrants coming up from Mexico and telling the existing people living there that their land was not theirs anymore and telling them to leave.

no, there are way over a million Arabs living in Israel in peace with Jews today. They were not kicked out, they refused to live in the Jewish state.

Yes, I've posted about the UN creating Israel several times. The palistinians refused to have their own state even though they were also going to have one.

  They refused because they hated the Jews, did not want them to have a state and refused to have their state near them.

The palistinians/arabic haters destroyed their future. They have only themselves to blame for their plight.

While the Isrealis were being shot to death at that music festival - one of the medics was an Arab Israeli. Hamas realized he was trying to save Israeli lives as an arab, and they shot him in the legs, and tortured him to death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel

"The majority report of UNSCOP proposed^[260] "an independent Arab State, an independent Jewish State, and the City of Jerusalem", the last to be under "an International Trusteeship System".^[261] On 29 November 1947, in Resolution 181 (II), the General Assembly adopted the majority report of UNSCOP, but with slight modifications.^[262] The Plan also called for the British to allow "substantial" Jewish migration by 1 February 1948.^[263]"

^and....

^"The Arab League members Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq refused to accept the UN partition plan and proclaimed the right of self-determination for the Arabs across the whole of Palestine. The Arab states marched their forces into what had, until the previous day, been the British Mandate for Palestine, starting the first Arab–Israeli War."

[The Cysko Kid]

11 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The modern state of Israel came into existence via a UN mandate. A mandate in which land was taken away from people who were already living there and had been living there for generations to be divided up into a brand new state for the Jewish diaspora.

It would be akin to the UN creating a mandate to take the northeastern part of Ohio to create a nation state for the illegal immigrants coming up from Mexico and telling the existing people living there that their land was not theirs anymore and telling them to leave.

Again, Jews have lived in Canaan/Israel for thousands of years. "Palestinians" have never had control of the land, ever. At best they had squatters rights and they were allowed to keep them but they and their fragile religion couldn't handle the Jews being in control of it. They fought for it and lost because they and all their Arab allies that fought with them are weak. That is how control of land works for nations on Earth. It's not granted by some authority. 

 

They're within their historical rights to go to war to try to take it back and if they get wiped out doing so (and they themselves started this war) that's just too fucking bad. 

[The Cysko Kid]

Despite what all the new age leftists think there is no such thing as fairness. There's only who can take the land and hold it. Every single country in this world is built on someone else's grave and to pretend otherwise is the height of hypocrisy. 

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

11 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The modern state of Israel came into existence via a UN mandate. A mandate in which land was taken away from people who were already living there and had been living there for generations to be divided up into a brand new state for the Jewish diaspora.

It would be akin to the UN creating a mandate to take the northeastern part of Ohio to create a nation state for the illegal immigrants coming up from Mexico and telling the existing people living there that their land was not theirs anymore and telling them to leave.

Not even a close comparison.  Illegals have no historical claim to the land in Northern Ohio.  Perhaps southern Ohio (Cintucky region).

[VaporTrail]

5 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan1 said:

Not even a close comparison.  Illegals have no historical claim to the land in Northern Ohio.  Perhaps southern Ohio (Cintucky region).

6 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Despite what all the new age leftists think there is no such thing as fairness. There's only who can take the land and hold it. Every single country in this world is built on someone else's grave and to pretend otherwise is the height of hypocrisy. 

After Hitler tried to genocide the Jews, the UN thought it was a good idea to create Israel for all the displaced people. Look how that worked out.

What exactly do you guys think the UN will do with the displaced Palestinians if Israel is allowed to raze Gaza? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I can quite confidently say that I won't like what they decide)

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

After Hitler tried to genocide the Jews, the UN thought it was a good idea to create Israel for all the displaced people. Look how that worked out.

What exactly do you guys think the UN will do with the displaced Palestinians if Israel is allowed to raze Gaza? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I can quite confidently say that I won't like what they decide)

only half true, Vapor. The UN thought it was a good idea to create a JEWISH STATE, and an

ARABIC/"Palestinian" state. Both states were to be created.

the palestinians REFUSED TO HAVE A STATE, THEY DEMANDED NO STATE FOR THE JEWS,

and THEY WOULD CONTROL THE ENTIRE REGION.

Come on, man.

[calfoxwc]

[calfoxwc]

10 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

After Hitler tried to genocide the Jews, the UN thought it was a good idea to create Israel for all the displaced people. Look how that worked out.

What exactly do you guys think the UN will do with the displaced Palestinians if Israel is allowed to raze Gaza? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I can quite confidently say that I won't like what they decide)

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

41 minutes ago, VaporTrail said:

After Hitler tried to genocide the Jews, the UN thought it was a good idea to create Israel for all the displaced people. Look how that worked out.

What exactly do you guys think the UN will do with the displaced Palestinians if Israel is allowed to raze Gaza? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I can quite confidently say that I won't like what they decide)

Move them to New York or California?

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, VaporTrail said:

After Hitler tried to genocide the Jews, the UN thought it was a good idea to create Israel for all the displaced people. Look how that worked out.

What exactly do you guys think the UN will do with the displaced Palestinians if Israel is allowed to raze Gaza? (I actually don't know the answer to this question, but I can quite confidently say that I won't like what they decide)

The UN doesn't have to do shit with them. They can just ignore it like they do with all the genocide victims in Africa. If they get brought here it's not going to be the U.N. doing it but good ol' bleeding heart liberals that would rather sacrifice my kids and yours than ever say no to garbage people from a garbage culture. You can be damn sure they'll try to stick them in red states though. 

[Canton Dawg]

21 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

The modern state of Israel came into existence via a UN mandate.

I highly recommend reading some world history.

[Canton Dawg]

1937: Arabs reject the Peel Commission to create a Jewish and Arab state.

1947: Arabs reject the UN partition plan to create a Jewish and Arab state. Wage war against the new nation of Israel. Lose more land than the partition gave them.

1967: Israel wins yet another war against its Arab neighbors, conquering Gaza, the West Bank and Sinai in a defensive war. The Arab League declares the "three no's": No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel. Israel voluntarily hands control of the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism back to the Islamic Waqf, and made it illegal for Jews to pray there.

1979: Israel voluntarily hands the Sinai back to Egypt, returning land conquered in a defensive war.

1993: Israel recognizes the sovereignty of the Palestinian Authority over the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the Oslo Accords. Yasser Arafat uses it to support terrorism.

2000: Israel offers Yasser Arafat recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital. Arafat rejects it and launches the Second Intifada.

2005: Israel pulls out of the Gaza Strip, dismantles all its settlements, and forces Jews to leave their homes. Palestinians respond by electing Hamas who turn it into a terror state.

2008: Israel offers Mahmoud Abbas once again recognition of a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 94% of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as its Capital and even offered to dismantle all their settlements. And once again, the Palestinians reject it.

2010-2021: Hamas launches periodic rocket attacks against the state of Israel and builds terror tunnels in order to kidnap and murder Jews while using the people of Gaza as human shields against the IDF.

2023: Hamas commits the worst act of mass murder against Jews since the Holocaust.

[VaporTrail]

19 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

1937: Arabs reject the Peel Commission to create a Jewish and Arab state.

...

2023: Hamas commits the worst act of mass murder against Jews since the Holocaust.

States in the Middle East are violent and poorly governed. More at 11. 

All this proves is that the partition plan was retarded in the first place. It's like saying "Hey, the Rockefellers used to live in East Cleveland, let's partition half the city and give it to the Rockefeller descendants. It's their birthright, after all. And we're offering the East Clevelanders living there now half of it, so it's fair! The current East Clevelanders don't really have a historical claim to the land anyways." What could possibly go wrong?

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the hipsters who choose to gentrify a shitty neighborhood and get mugged on the way home from the bar. Why on earth would I feel any different about Israel?

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

States in the Middle East are violent and poorly governed. More at 11. 

All this proves is that the partition plan was retarded in the first place. It's like saying "Hey, the Rockefellers used to live in East Cleveland, let's partition half the city and give it to the Rockefeller descendants. It's their birthright, after all. And we're offering the East Clevelanders living there now half of it, so it's fair! The current East Clevelanders don't really have a historical claim to the land anyways." What could possibly go wrong?

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the hipsters who choose to gentrify a shitty neighborhood and get mugged on the way home from the bar. Why on earth would I feel any different about Israel?

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

States in the Middle East are violent and poorly governed. More at 11. 

All this proves is that the partition plan was retarded in the first place. It's like saying "Hey, the Rockefellers used to live in East Cleveland, let's partition half the city and give it to the Rockefeller descendants. It's their birthright, after all. And we're offering the East Clevelanders living there now half of it, so it's fair! The current East Clevelanders don't really have a historical claim to the land anyways." What could possibly go wrong?

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the hipsters who choose to gentrify a shitty neighborhood and get mugged on the way home from the bar. Why on earth would I feel any different about Israel?

[calfoxwc]

3 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

States in the Middle East are violent and poorly governed. More at 11. 

All this proves is that the partition plan was retarded in the first place. It's like saying "Hey, the Rockefellers used to live in East Cleveland, let's partition half the city and give it to the Rockefeller descendants. It's their birthright, after all. And we're offering the East Clevelanders living there now half of it, so it's fair! The current East Clevelanders don't really have a historical claim to the land anyways." What could possibly go wrong?

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the hipsters who choose to gentrify a shitty neighborhood and get mugged on the way home from the bar. Why on earth would I feel any different about Israel?

ok, take your time before you answer....

[Jax]

 

[The Cysko Kid]

14 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

States in the Middle East are violent and poorly governed. More at 11. 

All this proves is that the partition plan was retarded in the first place. It's like saying "Hey, the Rockefellers used to live in East Cleveland, let's partition half the city and give it to the Rockefeller descendants. It's their birthright, after all. And we're offering the East Clevelanders living there now half of it, so it's fair! The current East Clevelanders don't really have a historical claim to the land anyways." What could possibly go wrong?

I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the hipsters who choose to gentrify a shitty neighborhood and get mugged on the way home from the bar. Why on earth would I feel any different about Israel?

Because Israel is strong enough to occupy the land and hold it and they offered the Palestinians amnesty to stay and live and they rejected it. I'm hardly an Israel lover but that is how it works. I don't have any sympathy for the poor beleaguered people of wherever because as Ive said before even a cursory trip through history will reveal that that is literally how it has always worked on earth. The Muslims conquered Spain and held it for hundreds of years and made the Spanish pay jizya tax to live on their own land. That's how it works. Might makes right. Always has, always will. That's how America will eventually be lost. The same way Rome was, by admitting barbarians. 

Fuck the Palestinians. Fuck them double because not even their own brethren want them and why would they? You think Saudi Arabia and their rich wahabi royalty wants a bunch of sunni dissidents hanging around bitching about how they're not submitting to god correctly and causing problems? Of course not. Only Western nations that think diversity is a strength want that. 

[VaporTrail]

3 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Because Israel is strong enough to occupy the land and hold it and they offered the Palestinians amnesty to stay and live and they rejected it. I'm hardly an Israel lover but that is how it works. I don't have any sympathy for the poor beleaguered people of wherever because as Ive said before even a cursory trip through history will reveal that that is literally how it has always worked on earth. The Muslims conquered Spain and held it for hundreds of years and made the Spanish pay jizya tax to live on their own land. That's how it works. Might makes right. Always has, always will. That's how America will eventually be lost. The same way Rome was, by admitting barbarians. 

Fuck the Palestinians. Fuck them double because not even their own brethren want them and why would they? You think Saudi Arabia and their rich wahabi royalty wants a bunch of sunni dissidents hanging around bitching about how they're not submitting to god correctly and causing problems? Of course not. Only Western nations that think diversity is a strength want that. 

You can have all the military might in the world and still make decisions that lead to strategic failure. 

US and USSR - Run out of Afghanistan to a technologically inferior but more motivated enemy
US - Run out of Vietnam and Iraq to a technologically inferior but more motivated enemy
Israel - They've earned a shit ton of war spoils through the wars fought to this point, but they still have an enemy who hates them on their doorstep. Unfortunately for the Israelis, the technological gap has narrowed between themselves and the Muslim states since their last major war. I suspect that is a half the reason why the Gaza invasion has been delayed. 

The rest of your post I more or less agree with. I just think that you're giving Israel a pass for their stupidity because you hate the other side so much. What's puzzling to me is that it will affect Americans negatively, and you're still rooting for the destruction of Gaza. Don't know if you've been following Israel's domestic politics, but Bibi is going to get voted out or thrown in jail as soon as the shooting stops. He will be blamed for allowing the attack to happen in the first place. There were massive protests in Israel against Netanyahu in the past year because of idiotic policies like the one above. 

What Bibi's done with Hamas clearly falls into the category of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, VaporTrail said:

You can have all the military might in the world and still make decisions that lead to strategic failure. 

US and USSR - Run out of Afghanistan to a technologically inferior but more motivated enemy
US - Run out of Vietnam and Iraq to a technologically inferior but more motivated enemy
Israel - They've earned a shit ton of war spoils through the wars fought to this point, but they still have an enemy who hates them on their doorstep. Unfortunately for the Israelis, the technological gap has narrowed between themselves and the Muslim states since their last major war. I suspect that is a half the reason why the Gaza invasion has been delayed. 

The rest of your post I more or less agree with. I just think that you're giving Israel a pass for their stupidity because you hate the other side so much. What's puzzling to me is that it will affect Americans negatively, and you're still rooting for the destruction of Gaza. Don't know if you've been following Israel's domestic politics, but Bibi is going to get voted out or thrown in jail as soon as the shooting stops. He will be blamed for allowing the attack to happen in the first place. There were massive protests in Israel against Netanyahu in the past year because of idiotic policies like the one above. 

What Bibi's done with Hamas clearly falls into the category of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

All those examples are of powers waging war on foreign soil. It's a little different when they're waging war on YOUR country. It's a bit easier to muster both resources and morale for that. When Hitler and Napoleon came to Russia it worked out a little, teensy bit differently. 

I don't hate the Palestinians. I just don't like them either and I don't give a fuck on ethical or humanitarian grounds if they do get eliminated based on their own actions. There's nothing cheaper than human life. I'll let woody wring his hands and go on about their oppression. It's disingenuous to pretend I care about the oppression of foreign peoples, because I don't. Especially when I don't respect their way of life. If the Palestinians and Jews roles were reversed I'd very likely have a similar reaction because I don't respect the Jews' way of life either. I'm not much for the shenanigans of abrahamic religions and their absolute assuradness that they're the ones that are interpreting their slightly different version of the same crappy story correctly. God hasn't shown me much in the way of favoring any of them, either.  Except maybe Catholics. They've got a whole city within Rome with golden baubles and original arts by the greatest masters in human history casually strewn about. If we're going on who God favors it's hard to argue against them.