Stefanski Stepping Aside, Allowing Dorsey to Transform Offense?

[Dutch Oven]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2024/05/browns-rookie-minicamp-observations-day-2-how-oc-ken-dorseys-fingerprints-are-all-over-the-new-offense.html

I recall hearing things last off-season regarding "big changes" on the offense to better suit Watson, but as we all saw, it was an awkward fit at times, still. 

Well, supposedly with Ken Dorsey seemingly running the show on offense, allegedly the offense is looking like what Watson ran in Houston.

We'll see. 

 

[syd]

bet he man's the guard position for a decade.

Guard Zak Zinter gave it his all

 

Zinter, the Browns’ No. 85 pick in the third round out of Michigan, participated fully in camp and didn’t take many reps off despite not practicing since breaking his tibia and fibula Nov. 25 against Ohio State.

 

 

Zinter moved well during the two days open to the media, showing excellent strength and power in individual drills and some team drills. It bodes well for him participating fully in training camp, where he’ll take reps and both guard spots and center.

[syd]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

"big changes" on the offense to better suit Watson

I mean it make's sense. But for one I have no problem at all with Stefanski's play calling. Second Do you think he really give up play calling duties ? cause as I remember that is why he was hired in the first place.

[Flugel]

4 minutes ago, syd said:

I mean it make's sense. But for one I have no problem at all with Stefanski's play calling. Second Do you think he really give up play calling duties ? cause as I remember that is why he was hired in the first place.

Good point about having no problem with the play calling.  When you need to use 5 different QBs with varied strengths and skill-sets and you have to get up to speed as soon as 1 of them (that isn't the starter) takes the field - that play calling hits the ground running.  Winning 11 games in spite of that, says a lot about how well the play calling was. 

This is just a guess on my part - but I think Dorsey was brought here to do the play calling.  One thing to remember about that, Stefanski will probably have a lot of input on the offensive game plans and what he wants his OC to do against opponents in various situations, downs and distances.  He'll get all that info at the beginning of the week so they can practice it throughout the week.  This should help Dorsey's choices in every situation during the game.  Nothing you probably didn't already know.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to give Dorsey the same role they gave Van Pelt on game day.

[Dutch Oven]

41 minutes ago, syd said:

I mean it make's sense. But for one I have no problem at all with Stefanski's play calling. Second Do you think he really give up play calling duties ? cause as I remember that is why he was hired in the first place.

The same thing happened down in Columbus, but Ryan Day gave the play-calling duties over to Chip Kelly.

I guess we'll see. I'm a little skeptical too.

I do not think Stefanski is a good fit for the RPO offense that Watson thrived in. IMO, Stefanski is a run-first, multi-TE, play-action guy at heart. If he's smart, he'll let Dorsey run the offense. 

[syd]

17 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

but Ryan Day gave the play-calling duties over to Chip Kelly.

thank god. Do you believe he was told to or get  the fuck out ?

[Dutch Oven]

4 minutes ago, syd said:

thank god. Do you believe he was told to or get  the fuck out ?

He might have been gently persuaded. 

Here's the thing: NCAA football is 24/7 chaos now. If you aren't trying to get high school players to come play for you, you are trying to keep players on your team from transferring when you aren't recruiting transfer portal players yourself... and then you are on the phone hitting up alumni for NIL money.

I'm thrilled Kelly has taken play-calling duties off his plate. 

[Orion]

I have a hard time believing that Stef will turn over the play calling.  I think that he proved himself last year with all of the QB turmoil going on and still winning games.  Having said that, it would be a good time to do it because he HAS proven himself.  And if things go south with the play calling it could always go back to him.  Of course, Dorsey would have to be a better play caller than he was an NFL QB.   

[nickers]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Good point about having no problem with the play calling.  When you need to use 5 different QBs with varied strengths and skill-sets and you have to get up to speed as soon as 1 of them (that isn't the starter) takes the field - that play calling hits the ground running.  Winning 11 games in spite of that, says a lot about how well the play calling was. 

This is just a guess on my part - but I think Dorsey was brought here to do the play calling.  One thing to remember about that, Stefanski will probably have a lot of input on the offensive game plans and what he wants his OC to do against opponents in various situations, downs and distances.  He'll get all that info at the beginning of the week so they can practice it throughout the week.  This should help Dorsey's choices in every situation during the game.  Nothing you probably didn't already know.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to give Dorsey the same role they gave Van Pelt on game day.

For me.. Play calling was only an issue when he decided to get cute thinking he could outsmart everyone on particular downs.. Now do I think he's a bad person?.. No.. But at the same.. I don't think there's anything particular about him that makes him special.. Now granted.. He's not "Patty cakes" Murmer or Spew Jackass..... But he'll never be associated or spoken in the same breath as Lombardi or PB.....  One thing I did notice though.. As soon as Blowdell and Baker were sent packing... (That's no accident).. The locker room became more galvanized... But I don't seem him as an Elite HC ... To me.. Those are the Bill Walsh's and Tom Landry's of football past...  With Belichic'.. I put an Asterisk beside him because he was 0 before Brady and he's been 0 without him...  I still need to see more... If the ship sinks this year for whatever reason.. Im not opposed to trying someone new... And the FO will share in the blame game as well...

[syd]

2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

He might have been gently persuaded. 

Here's the thing: NCAA football is 24/7 chaos now. If you aren't trying to get high school players to come play for you, you are trying to keep players on your team from transferring when you aren't recruiting transfer portal players yourself... and then you are on the phone hitting up alumni for NIL money.

I'm thrilled Kelly has taken play-calling duties off his plate. 

Chip is a class act. When he went back to Oregon as head coach of ucla, he got a standing O

[Flugel]

21 hours ago, nickers said:

For me.. Play calling was only an issue when he decided to get cute thinking he could outsmart everyone on particular downs.. Now do I think he's a bad person?.. No.. But at the same.. I don't think there's anything particular about him that makes him special.. Now granted.. He's not "Patty cakes" Murmer or Spew Jackass..... But he'll never be associated or spoken in the same breath as Lombardi or PB.....  One thing I did notice though.. As soon as Blowdell and Baker were sent packing... (That's no accident).. The locker room became more galvanized... But I don't seem him as an Elite HC ... To me.. Those are the Bill Walsh's and Tom Landry's of football past...  With Belichic'.. I put an Asterisk beside him because he was 0 before Brady and he's been 0 without him...  I still need to see more... If the ship sinks this year for whatever reason.. Im not opposed to trying someone new... And the FO will share in the blame game as well...

LOL!  Patty Cakes - we used to have fun with the nick-names didn't we?  Yeah, nothing I can argue with.  Belichick going 11-5 with a Matt Cassell that never won a starting job at USC the year Brady went down shows me he can make the playoffs without Brady.  He did that with Vinny going 11-5 (so did Parcells with the Jets); but having the elite QB to punctuate it all (Belichick needed it that as you said).

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I believe it doesn't matter. Until Depodesta is not calling the plays, this coffee fetcher pretend OC shit will deliver the exact same results.

Bur, but, but.....we have more fatties trying out for OL than ever before.😁

[Dutch Oven]

56 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Bur, but, but.....we have more fatties trying out for OL than ever before.😁

If he wants to ramble on with his normal nonsense on his threads, great.

But don't encourage him on mine, thank you. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

If he wants to ramble on with his normal nonsense on his threads, great.

But don't encourage him on mine, thank you. 

Well in the somewhat adapted and bastardized words of Shane's Little Joey, "Ghoolie, come back Ghoolie!!"😂

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

It is always nice when same-sex relationships work out.

I think we are all touched by your and nicker's relationship.

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I think we are all touched by your and nicker's relationship.

Is this The Official Stefanski Stepping Aside, Allowing Dorsey to Transform Offense thread?  Or, do we have to wait until the guy who needs to announce he's wealthy re-names and re-starts it?   

Edited May 17 by Flugel

[ballpeen]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:56 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I believe it doesn't matter. Until Depodesta is not calling the plays, this coffee fetcher pretend OC shit will deliver the exact same results.

Depo isn't calling plays.

 

If these meetings have ever been, or are still taking place, it is simply the group talking about plays that have the best chance of working.  I don't see that as a negative.

[ballpeen]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I believe Depo gives a guideline by his statistics of what can and can't be called in every situation.

I believe that the OC will call the plays, but only from previously chosen options.

Stefanski, to me, is like Romeo Crennell was, a coffee fetcher.

I don't disagree with that.  In any given game a coach doesn't have the entire playbook on his call sheet.  Teams can only practice so many plays in a given week.  

 

No doubt analytics has input on what plays have a chance to work based on statistical data the other team has produced, but in no way does Depo simply hand Stefanski his menu for the week or determine the gameplan..

 

Analytics is there to support the coaching staff, not tell them what to do.

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I believe Depo gives a guideline by his statistics of what can and can't be called in every situation.

I believe that the OC will call the plays, but only from previously chosen options.

Stefanski, to me, is like Romeo Crennell was, a coffee fetcher.

Points 1 and 2 are pretty good - especially considering the Browns hired a 2nd Analytics guy as well as a Sr Offensive Assistant Bill Musgrave. My guess is DePo wanted them to see the weekly process before empowering them to hit the ground running.  What I don't know is how much DePo trusts total empowerment so he probably kept taking charge of those meetings.  Then there was the multiple QBs the Browns had to start as well as the countless starters they kept on losing at other positions.

Stefanski seems to have varied trust from our fans.  That said, he's had two 11 win seasons from 2020 to 2023 that led to 2 NFL Coach of the Year Honors for the Cleveland Browns that haven't sniffed 11 wins since Bill Belichick and Nick Saban coached this team in 1994.  Last year's 11 wins were in spite of losing the 1st and 2nd string RT, the LT, Nick Chubb, Grant Delpit, Anthony Walker and other LBers and various DL in the rotation. Winning in spite of that kind of relentless injury volume while needing to start 5 different QBs is the closest thing I've seen to a human being walking on Lake Erie.  He's improved my opinion of him when I wasn't confident he could do that.  

 

[tiamat63]

"transform" is a strong word in this case.  This offense won't be Optimus Prime switching modes here.

Re-tooling is more apt.  The language and routes will have more post-snap additions/changes than anything else. But it won't be some complete overhaul. This is also why the front office targeted Jerry Jeudy in free agency, I believe.  He functioned as the Z in Denver. An offense that really didn't give him the volume he might be capable, had they not been so relying on being run heavy.  And even in the volume they did, I caught multiple missed opportunities a game just with Russel alone under center that would have given JJ a much bigger season. 

 

The coaching and personnel moves all seem to be complimentarily done hand in hand.    If anything, that would signal a front office and coaching staff communicating effectively.

 

 

[Orion]

On 5/18/2024 at 3:48 AM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Stefanski, to me, is like Romeo Crennell was, a coffee fetcher.

Night & Day difference between the two IMO.  Romeo was not a good HC.

[syd]

On 5/18/2024 at 12:48 AM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

a coffee fetcher.

must be one helluva coffee fetcher to be a two time coach of the year

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Maybe you should join Dutch Oven laughing over his vagina thinking you zinged me.

Some of you c*nts just don't get it. This is a fucking football board, not a bullshit, grade school trash talk forum.

 A couple years before he passed, Stan asked me and one other guy to help him and to reach out to members via e mail, who don't post and find out why.

The number one reason? Regulars turning every fucking thread into bullshit personal comments.

Younger posters don't want to join in if they are going to be attacked or ridiculed.

Two mother fucking threads I post to talk about the stadium, and two cocksukers just decide to drag their bullshit over and keep at it.

Seriously, Tom, Dutch, you two, c*nts are like Behar and Whoopie. No matter what the fucking topic, you imbeciles can't resist from addressing the poster.

Talk football, or shut your fucking pieholes. If you were on a construction crew you both would have gotten your asses severely kicked long ago. 

[syd]

2 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Kind of like Yoko Ono winning a grammy? Bruce Jenner,  winning woman of the year? Maybe Cher being inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Chevy winning the J.D. Powers and Associates award?

Or maybe Vinny Testeverde winning offensive player of the year?

Maybe you should join Dutch Oven laughing over his vagina thinking you zinged me.

Steffanski is a coffee fetcher, and just as the "experts did" when I called Phil Sewage Ozzie's coffee fetcher, you simpletons are so mesmerized by the propaganda you read to believe what your eyes see.

Stefanski isbthe IDEAL MODEL of today's PERFECT NFL coach. As Grossi reported (but imbeciles here don't assimilate) Stefanski agreed to relinquish important parts of his head coaching role in order to get the job.

He is a Beta. His is a cahuunt. He is a pliable, flexible mouthpiece for the NFL. He IS the head coach every NFL team not dedicated to winning wants.

He tows the line, does what he is told and paints rosey pictures.

I don't give a fuck what award he gets. He has been a loser for the Browns. He was so fucking far out of his league in the playoffs it was sickening.

But hey, you go ahead and blow the guy and thank him for mediocrity. He will never get to a championship, regardless of where he goes.

He IS, A a coffee fetcher.

As I have properly nicknamed him....ShitMyPantski. He is horrible.

 

 

LMAO

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Kind of like Yoko Ono winning a grammy? Bruce Jenner,  winning woman of the year? Maybe Cher being inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Chevy winning the J.D. Powers and Associates award?

Or maybe Vinny Testeverde winning offensive player of the year?

Maybe you should join Dutch Oven laughing over his vagina thinking you zinged me.

Steffanski is a coffee fetcher, and just as the "experts did" when I called Phil Sewage Ozzie's coffee fetcher, you simpletons are so mesmerized by the propaganda you read to believe what your eyes see.

Stefanski isbthe IDEAL MODEL of today's PERFECT NFL coach. As Grossi reported (but imbeciles here don't assimilate) Stefanski agreed to relinquish important parts of his head coaching role in order to get the job.

He is a Beta. His is a cahuunt. He is a pliable, flexible mouthpiece for the NFL. He IS the head coach every NFL team not dedicated to winning wants.

He tows the line, does what he is told and paints rosey pictures.

I don't give a fuck what award he gets. He has been a loser for the Browns. He was so fucking far out of his league in the playoffs it was sickening.

But hey, you go ahead and blow the guy and thank him for mediocrity. He will never get to a championship, regardless of where he goes.

He IS, A a coffee fetcher.

As I have properly nicknamed him....ShitMyPantski. He is horrible.

 

 

Thanks for the Memphis down wind!  

[Orion]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Wake me when Stefanski finds a set of balls and tries actually running the team.

News flash.  Stef is not the owner.  Every HC is a subordinate of the owner.

Flugal explained what he did this past season with the pieces of crap that he had for QB's.  Stef took the analytics playbook and put it on moth balls.  He didn't have the QB's to be 'analytics aggressive'.  I feel quite certain that Stef had to put his foot down on that point to the Haslem -  DePo tandem.  Much like, 'Hey!  Do you want this team to win football games?  Then I'm going to have to do it Old School.'  

When he masterfully got the team to the playoffs, the Texans got their QB back...and he played well...while ours was throwing it to the other team.  Not all Flacco's fault as he didn't have any Tackles on the offensive line.  They were NEVER going to go far in the playoffs with the number of starters they had missing.  The Cinderella Story ended pretty much as expected.  

[TexasAg1969]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

News flash.  Stef is not the owner.  Every HC is a subordinate of the owner.

Flugal explained what he did this past season with the pieces of crap that he had for QB's.  Stef took the analytics playbook and put it on moth balls.  He didn't have the QB's to be 'analytics aggressive'.  I feel quite certain that Stef had to put his foot down on that point to the Haslem -  DePo tandem.  Much like, 'Hey!  Do you want this team to win football games?  Then I'm going to have to do it Old School.'  

When he masterfully got the team to the playoffs, the Texans got their QB back...and he played well...while ours was throwing it to the other team.  Not all Flacco's fault as he didn't have any Tackles on the offensive line.  They were NEVER going to go far in the playoffs with the number of starters they had missing.  The Cinderella Story ended pretty much as expected.  

 

9 minutes ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

ShitMyPantski is a coffee fetcher. 

LOL! May I refer you to Orion's excellent post above. I'll have mine with cream and Splenda please Tom. LOL!☕🪗🛎️

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Hey Flugs, why don't you repost your great fucking wisdom where you analyzed the industry and showed me that Phil Sewage and Romeo Crennel were not coffee fetchers, but as YOU analyzed it.....the genius behind Belichik and Ozzie.

You assured me that both of them would self destruction without those two imbeciles.

How many times does history have to repeat itself for you to get at least one thing right?

I gave you a bitch slapping over Crennel and Sewage, and I am giving you another one on ShitMyPantski.

He is a coffee fetcher. Always with you Flugel, you predict some Cattywompas horseshit, and then spend the next two years explaining how you were really 100% correct ONCE we consider the unforseen things that happened.

I will say this about you Tom, I know you to be 100% accurate at picking horse races the day after the race.

Bro, I hope I am wrong. You know a lot about football, but I know a lot more about hiring executives.

Dude, compliant men like ShitMyPantski never achieve greatness. Harmony is not in the equation of being successful.

Coffee fetcher.   

Says the guy who repeatedly went on record that Joe Thomas was a horrible pick and an overrated piece of shit as a player throughout the 1st 8 years of his 10 year Hall of Fame Career. 10 straight Pro Bowls later - I understand your hatred for Phil Savage.  

Is this the same fat guy with thin skin that had a tantrum about an alleged psycho analysis I gave him?  That's still eating you!  Don't let it - it's free.  

Some unhappy people that can't succeed or feel good about themselves in real life - come to message boards to announce and pretend they have done so.  I'm very happy for your persona; but sorry for the real person that has to look into the mirror.  They do have mirrors that can make you look skinny.  If you don't have enough money to buy a new one - you turn the vertical view horizontally.  Folks, Tom sells water purifiers while his persona sells his dreams to anyone that wants to believe them. 

The reason I was accurate with my statement about betting on horses after the race is because I said that about you (to you) on this message board. Now you're pawning that off as your's.  That's adorable! 🤣

BTW, Rich was the one that 1st called Savage "Sewage" and came up with "Coffee Fetchers."  You're using other people's stuff as your's.  All your football takes are from things Rich used to post.  That's how sad you are - you don't even have your own material.  The only prediction I remember you making on your own was that Joe Thomas was going to fail miserably.  Guess who really failed?

[Flugel]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Newsflash, no head coach is the owner. Somenhead coaches have balls, and cause consternation to do the right things.

Stefanski powders Depodestas nutsack.

Flugel? Dude, Flugel is to football what Don Knotts is to Law enforcement.

When I called Phil Sewage and Romeon Crennel coffee fetcher on day one, Flugal started.arguing with me that

1) Sewage was the real genius behind Ozzie Newsome

2) Romeo Crennel was the genius behind Belichik.

He maintained that both Ozzie and Belichik would fall apart with those two assholes coming to the Browns.

Flugel couldn't explain pussy to a drunken sailor with pockets full of cash.

Stefanski is a beta. He is soft and pliable. He has no spine. Haslam and company like this guy because he is a coffee fetcher.

I don't know wtf you guys do or did for a living, but for a lot of my career I have been a serial entrepreneur. My partner and I raised $4 million for a start up, and on more than one occasion I told the investors to shove their funds up their ass when they tried to take over the science.

I have lost more jobs than I care to recount from telling bosses to go fuck themselves.

I know this much, no man has ever achieved great success in anything without consternation and disruption.

Stefanski is a coffee fetcher. He is Romeo Crennel. He is Phil Sewage. Until Depodesta is gone, the Browns will remain floundering.

Says the guy that still has to pay his wife for sex.  They have an agreement, if Ghoolie ever makes more money than his wife - their bedroom gymnastics will be free.  

I wasn't online before October of 1998 - so your comment about Belichick and Ozzie is very amusing.  I was a HUGE Belichick fan!  I was thrilled he wanted to come to Cleveland. He did a great job here!  Ozzie Newsome gave Belichick a lot of credit for the success Ozzie found later on orchestrating drafts for Baltimore. Bill taught him a lot.  Ghoolie, if you're gonna deal with Flugel - use Google.

I DID think Crennell would be a better HC than he was; and I HOPED Phil Savage would be better at drafting than he was. 

Last but not least, beware a guy that can't ever use cut and paste when he purposely misquotes people he's furious with or even use facts/timeline to cooperate with his lies.   As always, it's been a pleasure.  I needed the comic relief.  We had 2 family members go into hospice last week and one of them passed away.

[syd]

jesus f-ing christ, even  when  we are winning people gotta bitch  about something. Who was that ? you know when we beat the jet's to lock up a playoff spot, Bitched and wined about some fan's being to loud. Oh wait I remember it was Ghoul's little bitch nickers.