Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Fine for the water .... team & player learns.... message sent .... issue done. If I were a player earning the $$ they do, the fine is relative to the infraction. Or else find a new job if you dont agree. And yea if thats what you think bein a dick is, well so be it. I can tell you held no position of authority in your life, otherwise I think you would nt be so one sided. JMO. Eat shit, you don't know one thing about me...."I can tell you held no position of authority in your life" FK YOU....Dead wrong. Assjole thing to say tho... My point isn't about water, It is a conglomeration of things under EM that I see that can make guys not want to play for him...Number 1 being treating players like children, #2 Micromanage the passion, fun out of football for players(it's a game, have to have fun playing it on Sunday at the very least), being a dick as coach! Now some of you say it's right , some say it's wrong....I'm saying it is a good way to lose a team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Water, schmater. We don't know the details. If it was a veteran, who makes millions and millions, he doesn't get a message if you fine him 3 bucks, and he knows he wasn't supposed to take stuff out of the bar/fridge without paying for it. If it's a rookie, and he hasn't been around enough to know that it wasn't okay to take stuff and the team would just pay for it... whatever. If you were a coach, and a veteran player on your team had done it before several times, and broke other small rules, wouldn't you hammer him? It is only bogus as much as you assume details to fit out of angst that the Browns lost. The Browns are playing with more excitement and aggressiveness than I ever saw while Crennel was coach. It's the second game, for crying out loud. LOOK < If you read the thread....it starts with a question mark and says "just throwing it out there" I think the Defense will keep us in everygame if the running attack can gain yards and chew clock...that's fundamental. Just pointing out I think it is a total dick moive to fine maximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement for a freaking bottle of water...1,700.00 dollars for a plastic bottle of water? You guys come off like it's nothing....fine the guy sure....1700 bux....is excessive to the maximum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 RECAP: Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm guessing he'll loosen the reins a little. Well , history remains otherwise...but we will see. I'm behind the discipline, and like this guy as a coach for the most part....but moves like this aren't a great way to manage a team,inspire teamates. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 RECAP: Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it... Well the ones that 'quit' or pack it in will be the next round of losers to be shipped out. You can't weed a team of all the freeloaders in one offseason. I'm hopeful that the incoming players buy into what Mangini's selling because just pretending won't cut it.JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Eat shit, you don't know one thing about me...."I can tell you held no position of authority in your life" FK YOU Maybe you have held positions of authority but it is evident your language skills are somewhat juvenile. Why are you getting so worked up over a fine?? The guy broke a rule and the team apparently had to pay this guys tab. When these guys go on the road they have their rooms paid for and the team gives them a wad of cash for meals and incidentals. Seems to me it isn't hard for players to clean up their own tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 More bread, please: As salaries soar, pro athletes fed even more cash with road per diems By Jamie Turner May 12, 2009, 11:28PM Ted Crow/The Plain DealerA reminder of long-gone days when professional athletes needed a little help for road expenses, today's per diem payments are an entirely separate avenue of income in the big leagues -- whether it be the NBA, NFL or Major League Baseball. CLEVELAND -- Pro athletes are treated to pre- and post-game buffets that could stuff a large wedding. But to show even more gastronomical love -- and because it's in their union contracts -- teams feed a player's wallet well, too. Despite pulling in multi-million-dollar salaries, players receive money for meals and incidentals while on the road. And it's not Denny's Grand Slam breakfast and Subway foot-long money, either. Two of their per diems could feed a family of four for a week. This season, the daily meal allowance for Major League Baseball players is $89.50. (It's $20 in the minors.) In the NFL, players usually travel the day before a game and dine as a team at their hotels. But they also get $90 a day -- $18 for breakfast, $27 for lunch and $45 for dinner, as specified in the contract. The real kings of the culinary court are NBA players. They get $114 per day, enough to cover, theoretically, the 48-ounce double porterhouse for two, carved tableside, at Morton's, The Steakhouse, at $95. Like player salaries and the price of stadium beer, meal allowances have escalated though the roof. Former Indians ace Sam McDowell recalled that in 1962, his first full season in the majors, he made $6,000 and was given $9 a day in meal money. That was when a guy could order cereal with fruit and a cup of coffee for a buck at the team hotel, which he usually did. "Back then, it almost lasted each day," McDowell said. "A big dinner for me was $6 or $7 with a dollar tip." Associated Press file photoWhen Rick Manning was patrolling center field for in the Indians in the mid-1970s, a per diem allowance was a necessary and appreciated addition to a player's income and provided an option to the pizza and chicken generally found in clubhouse post-game spreads. Baseball's per diem had climbed to $19.50 when Rick Manning made the club in 1975, and reached about $40 by the time he retired in 1987. The allowance has more than doubled again since, but that's not all that's changed, food-wise. When he played, post-game clubhouse meals consisted of boxes of pizza and buckets of fried chicken. "You go into a clubhouse now," the Indians broadcaster said, "the spreads they put out are just like restaurants." One recent post-game menu posted in the visitors' clubhouse at Progressive Field featured grilled pork chops with hunter sauce, roasted salmon with maple bourbon glaze and ginger-smoked chicken in lemon thyme jus. Meal allowances, with built-in annual cost-of-living increases, are spelled out in each league's Collective Bargaining Agreement. Baseball players may get the lowest per diem, but they travel the most -- 81 road games per season. This season, that's a sweet $7,249.50. Only the amount over federal guidelines for what companies should reimburse traveling employees for meals and incidentals -- $39 to $64 a day, depending on the destination -- is taxable income. The rest is tax-free. "It's called 'meal money,' " said Mike Seghi, the Indians director of team travel, "but it's kind of living money." He hands each player envelopes of cash for an entire road trip as they board the plane. Ballplayers usually use the dough for dining out and to cover cab fare, toiletries, maybe room service and the $40 to $50 per day that most players tip the visiting clubhouse manager for laying out impressive pre- and post-game spreads. But meal allowances don't come with instructions. Players don't have to turn in receipts to report how the money's spent. They can use the allowance as they wish. Or not use it. Eat cheaply and the per diem becomes a nice little bonus. Former Cavaliers guard Craig Ehlo said teammate Phil Hubbard would buy home appliances with his meal money. "He passed that [strategy] on to me," said Ehlo, who remembers getting $5 a day for meals in basketball's minor leagues. "I bought my first washer-dryer with my training camp per diem." Junk food isn't off-limits, but teams want their investments eating well. And most do. "Lots of sushi and high-end steaks," said Seghi, who started doling out meal money for the Indians when those envelopes contained about $20. Today, that covers a jar of nuts from the mini-bar. RecommendRecomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listercat Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Spa treatment is one thing...I like what Mangini has done in that regard, but for any business to be successful guys have to enjoy going to work and work hard for those in charge......I've had a dick boss before and it totally sapped my energy, drive and passion for my work and workplace, I had no loyalty to him, no respect for him, and kinda rooted against him....because he was a dick to everybody...I don't know if mangini is a dick or not but fining a guy 1700 bux for a water is a BIG DICK move! That's just my opinion....but that's the right way to lose a team! I would like to suggest that not paying your bills and assuming that others will pay your freight just because you are an NFL player is a 'BIG DICK MOVE' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I can't believe you guys have missed the point completely...even after I've explained it twice. It isn't about a fine...it is about management style of EM. Doesn't inpire players and has opposite affect. @ ballpeen, " Maybe you have held positions of authority but it is evident your language skills are somewhat juvenile." the dude attacked me personally and I took offense, Asshole thing to say! "Why are you getting so worked up over a fine??" the fine is maximum under collective bargaining agreement....1,700.00 for 1 bottle of water....If i was the player or a teamate of the player, I'd think that he was being a dick. 100 bucks gets the message across....I don't know if the player has done this habitually and has taken advantage previously hence the MAX allowed fine but IMO it surely doesn't seem the coach has your back. "The guy broke a rule and the team apparently had to pay this guys tab." It was 3 dollars.... It is a dick move , period! Little things like this are an idictment of his motivational "style". Would you run through a wall for a coach like that? Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right And EM beat NE with the same attitude and players last year, in NE (also went in to NE his first year as HC in 2006 and beat them). I could say guys would run through a wall for him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 By using the Maximum allowed. Mangini sent a message. Bingo. Holy hell Solon, I understand some attachment to a thread you've spawned, but Drunkandstoopid nailed it in about the 5th post. Like Tiger holing one out of the bunker when he can barely even see the flag. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So Mangini imposed a fine that maybe got the player to think LESS about the specifics of the bottle of water, and more about the over all point he is trying to make. Exactly my point Golf....the point Em is making, isn't a point that makes a guy run through a wall for you, buy into the system, want to help your coach succeed...etc Not about water or a fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Bingo. Holy hell Solon, I understand some attachment to a thread you've spawned, but Drunkandstoopid nailed it in about the 5th post. Like Tiger holing one out of the bunker when he can barely even see the flag. Done. Really? you don't comprehend the bigger picture I'm speaking to? Like i said just throwing it out there....moves like this are detrimental IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 and I disagree the point was and good lord Mangini said it himself in his press conference. NO ONE PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN THIS TEAM, EVERY PLAYER NEEDS TO FOLLOW THE RULES. THE RULES ARE THERE TO BUILD THE SYSTEM THAT WILL MAKE THIS A BETTER TEAM. NO ONE PLAYER GETS TO DECIDE WHICH RULES ARE IMPORTANT TO HELP US SUCEED AND WHICH RULES AREN'T it's really pretty simple. Nice CAPS...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Really? you don't comprehend the bigger picture I'm speaking to? Like i said just throwing it out there....moves like this are detrimental IMO. You're focusing on the incident. This is the bigger picture. If they want to skip out on the bill while representing the Browns, it oughta sting a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 well you didn't seem to be grasping a simple point..... Me? my point has nothing to do with water or fines.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 You're focusing on the incident. This is the bigger picture. lol it's my thread.... you are focusing on the incident....wow.... I guess I'm the only one that thinks being a dick boss hurts your team! Discipline is one thing, correct accountability is one thing...treating players like orphgan children doesn't inspire them...like i said it is my opinion, and I think I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 lol it's my thread.... you are focusing on the incident....wow Your thread? Yeah, I know, it's a thread, not your child. I've addressed this. Try and keep up. Wow? I can't believe I'm wasting the time, but: It's not about: 1. The player 2. Mangini 3. The flavor of water 4. The amount of the fine 5. Playing hard 6. Giving up on Sunday because your feelings got hurt over a fine 7. Maybe wishing you were playing for Belichoke because he wins 8. Maybe wishing you've been in a Superbowl or not It is about: Representing the Browns. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Your thread? Yeah, I know, it's a thread, not your child. I've addressed this. Try and keep up. Wow? I can't believe I'm wasting the time, but: It's not about: 1. The player 2. Mangini 3. The flavor of water 4. The amount of the fine 5. Playing hard 6. Giving up on Sunday because your feelings got hurt over a fine 7. Maybe wishing you were playing for Belichoke because he wins 8. Maybe wishing you've been in a Superbowl or not It is about: Representing the Browns. Plain and simple. fail... No fun at all to play for EM. Now he finesplayers Mximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement 1700 Bux ... for not paying for water? Fine them the cost of the water and time associated fixing situation...1700.00 That's just a Dick move! Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Right your point is Mangini was being a dick over something that has nothing to do with making a football player a better player. Am I aright? here is my point AGAin: My point isn't about water, It is a conglomeration of things under EM that I see that can make guys not want to play for him...Number 1 being treating players like children, #2 Micromanage the passion, fun out of football for players(it's a game, have to have fun playing it on Sunday at the very least), being a dick as coach! Now some of you say it's right , some say it's wrong....I'm saying it is a good way to lose a team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 BTW this was your opening to this thread right? sure sounds like it's about the water to me.... It was the opening, and apparently he's got it locked & loaded on the ole' copy & paster ready to dump into the thread when he needs to stick his fingers in his ears & stomp his feet. fail... No fun at all to play for EM. Now he finesplayers Mximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement 1700 Bux ... for not paying for water? Fine them the cost of the water and time associated fixing situation...1700.00 That's just a Dick move! Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 i am the only one who thinks this way.....I'm sure! Just throwing it out there....It's funny how the same guys on here tell me I'm wrong...always the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Again, Coughlin was "no fun". Bellicheck was "no fun". Now how are they regarded? Winning football games is about building a system that uses the players you chose to the best of thier abilities and about the ability to find the best players out there. No Rah Rah "lets run through walls together" coach is any better at getting thier teams to win. Coaches that win have a system and they get players to buy into their system. You're opinion many be that Mangini's way of doing things won't get players to "buy in". My opinion is that it's important that the players know that EVERY part of the system is eqally important, and that players can't "pick and chose" which parts they want to "buy in" to. And he's going to be a dick about it more in the beigning of his tenure than he will once players start to understand him. But if players DON'T respect the simplest rules, why would he expect them to follow the ones that make them better football players? spelling(beigning ) and caps...nice...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I some how doubt the fine came as a surprise to the player. I'd venture a guess that Mangini has told the players what he would fine for violation of any team rules. In which case, you broke the rules, you pay the fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkandstoopid Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So Mangini imposed a fine that maybe got the player to think LESS about the specifics of the bottle of water, and more about the over all point he is trying to make. Exactly my point Golf....the point Em is making, isn't a point that makes a guy run through a wall for you, buy into the system, want to help your coach succeed...etc Not about water or a fine. You know, I look at this from just about the exact opposite direction. If you want a team full of criminals, let 'em do what they want and go unpuninshed or receive trivail acknowledgement that they're screwing with the organization. My suspicion is that there are a bunch of players on the team that are quietly happy their teammate got blasted for trying to skip out on the bill. They know now that the organization is going to expect everyone to play within the same set of rules they're playing by. Once everyone's on the same page it could quite possibly make for a more cohesive unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 This team Quit in the 4th Qtr in Denver. I'm saying it...I think it's true. No fun at all to play for EM. Now he finesplayers Mximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement 1700 Bux ... for not paying for water? Fine them the cost of the water and time associated fixing situation...1700.00 That's just a Dick move! Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it....1700.00 for water??? wat a douche This team did NOT quit. Give Denver credit for making some plays.. They are nfl athletes after all.... The D was tired... not their fault. It happens when you get dominated in time of posession. As for the water.. What a knee jerk reaction Solon.. and I use the word JERK in the pun sense also.. You do not know the whole story.. Perhaps this player has done this in the past.. would that make a difference? YES. Perhaps Mangini made some statement regarding mini bars that the player broke.. Fact is; it is a matter of integrity.. The player did not have it.. he was not honest about what was used... You don't forget about taking things from the mini bar. I have been in many hotels.. I do not forget.. the player did not forget.. The hotel asks when you check out?? You tell them what you used..it's very simple concept. OR... Perhaps the player took it from some one elses mini bar as a joke and the other player got it on his bill..so mangini came down on the jokester.. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.. you are making assumptions... As for losing the team.. again you are making assumptions.. We have played 2 games.. to say the coach has lost the team is a ridiculous statement.. Romeo would have swept this under the rug, given the player a hug and paid for the water out of his own pocket. That's why he sucked.. he wanted to be everyones best friend and had no discipline. I have not heard ONE player say he is not having fun . Yet you make this claim... . I have heard them say LOSING is not fun.. there is a world of difference. Mangini is not treating them like children.. if he did, he would have just said " it's ok, pay for the water, no big deal"...........NO he is treating them like MEN and demanding that they be accountable for their actions..that's what men do.. INTEGRITY DEFINED: doing the right thing, even when no one else is watching.. That is what is expected.. I HAIL Mangini for being a man and treating his players like men. I love what he is doing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Im not for fining players for taking a bottle of water but i am for fining these untalented boobs for dropped passes and penalties many of our players have no passion for the game and are only loyal to their paycheck i think mangini sucks for fining a player for taking water while letting these slouches get by with playing bad football without a fine or punishment associated to it...take back their unearned dollars for bad play! I am beginning to genuinely question mangini's football IQ at this point its possible we could be in for another 4 years and out regime..it wont be as bad as rac but it is going to be boring with lackluster gutless football on the offensive side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solon16 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 @ sez...to say the coach has lost the team is a ridiculous statement.. I never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 It's still too early to tell, but the early returns aren't terribly promising. Heck, even Belichick has learned not to micro-manage his teams like this. There's accountability and then there's doing the "Hey, never forget that I'm in charge here!" thing. The first one works, the second one hardly ever does. Making the rookies go to his kids' camp, micromanaging the locker room, fining people for water. But hey, all that accountability is turning the team into a winner, right? I mean, sure, they're 0-2 right now, but they're showing a lot of progress. Dennis We hired the wrong Ryan. Not that he's the subject of the OP, but we did. They couldn't have hired the other Ryan anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 @ sez...to say the coach has lost the team is a ridiculous statement.. I never did. the title of your thread says "lost players already" .. to me that means you are losing the team..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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