Solon16 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 " alot of the decisions he keeps making makes zero f'ing sense at all and are making this team worse than it was" Please explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Where to begin..... Not benching Brady Queen now that he's shown he isn't any good... Trading Winslow for a WR to sit on the bench while bringing a revolving door of scrubs at T.E.... Cutting Ivy for DeAngelo whatshisname then cutting him 3 days later.... Not resigning Pool instead trading for Elam... Throwing a rookie Center to the wolves right out the gate.... Jon Runyan and Mark Tauscher were both sitting at home. We bring in Porkshits Womack and St. Clair both of which are trash. He can see they're no good, we all can. Yet they remain. Not replacing Jamal Lewis.... Not resigning Andra Davis instead bringing in his guys who aren't as good.... Trading for Rattliff? Please.... He's traded and signed depth, depth, depth. What is it like 23-26 new players on the roster? 20 of which being average instead of say 10-15 average depth players and 5-10 guys who can come in and upgrade some spots. The guy cut the only real threat EITHER QB had left to throw to(Winslow) to make his statement meanwhile we gotta wait a few years for Robo and NoMass to learn the NFL style and become decent WR's. Cool if you're working on a 4 year plan but how abouts turning things around a bit sooner? The 4 and out plan is getting old. How has Quinn showed he is no good? Winslow was being traded for a very good reason. Can't you figure it out? Cutting Ivy...........who cares Mack should learn and he can only do that by playing Pool sucks Neither of those guys were answers either Barton is better than Andra in this system(better than overrated Jackson) Ratliff was a throw in Talk about whiney............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Explain. It still makes zero sense to me. No future man. It is like a low grade mattress. It may feel good now, but hurts in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 That's not an explanation. That's an opinion. Now explain to me exactly why trading Winslow and subsequently neglecting the TE position (which would seem vital for our young QB...Winslow was a guy who seemed to have rapport with said QB already, last season) makes sense. The explanation is in the wording. Kellen is a old 27 and he doesn't have the same ability than he did before the injuries. He may be able to put up another year or two of "serviceable" play, but Mankok sold high. If the Browns were close to winning it all, I would be mad, but we aren't so we do what is best for the 10's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Perhaps he doesn't have the same ability he had when we drafted him, but he's still a top-5 pass-catching TE in the NFL. This was from Sunday. Is that "serviceable?" Yeah. A young QB couldn't use a weapon like this. Who cares if he won't play until he's 40. You like David Veikune that much??? Probably. I guess I'm supposed to infer in your "wording" that you approve of what Mankok did with the riches TB gave us for Kellen? You said it right there.....pass catching. Everything this new staff had demonstrated so far is pass catching TE's isn't what they want. Blocking is the premium they seek...or at least a balance between the two....as well as KW could catch, he was equally inept as a blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPB Dawg Fan Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 How long do you think Mangini and Kokonis have to make progress? For example, what if this team goes 2-14 this year and 4-12 next year? IMO, they may have only 2yrs max to show progress, esp. if none of the higher draft picks appear to be breaking out. There was significant excitement when Savage was brought in (finally, a guy who can evaluate talent!), and there was still strong support for him a year later when he was almost fired (which, in retrospect, would've been better for the franchise). However, the support isn't deep for the new regime due to the coach being hired before the GM, and general dislike of Mangini. This is going to create pressure on Lerner to make a move sooner rather than later if things don't improve. These guys have to be feeling a tremendous amount of pressure. I know it's early and I hope it doesn't come down to this, but for some reason it's rattling around my head as a distinct possibility. Progress according to whom? The fans? I think as long as fans are showing up and they can demonstrate an increase in talent on the team (that may or may not mean a lot of wins), they will get at least 3 years....especially since they are in effect starting from below scratch with the amount of picks an salary cap Savage used up before they got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardG Posted September 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I can't get too upset about Winslow, not only because he's an old 27 and this team is years away from competing, but also because generally your highest-paid players are your leaders and the face of your franchise. You want those guys being your core players. I think one of the Browns problems is that they've had too much of their cap tied up by talented but overpaid and immature meatballs. Winslow wasn't going to be happy until he got his new deal. This team needs to start developing a future core. The team stinks now, so adding or keeping a player or two who make the team better now is a waste of time. Of course, the key thing is that when you unload cap space, you need to use that space to add players who are going to be part of that core... it remains to be seen if that will happen. So far it hasn't been encouraging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonTheVolleyball Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality. That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality. That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple. How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint. If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise. Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality. That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple. Like it or not, excuse or not, it is what it is. Tell me, how are we going to win right now?? I am all for it. Please explain how we do that?? I know a guy who is a saint and browns fan....nice guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 True statement about the blocking, but did you see that catch? He made WrongWich look good, and that can be very hard to do. You said it right there.....pass catching. Everything this new staff had demonstrated so far is pass catching TE's isn't what they want. Blocking is the premium they seek...or at least a balance between the two....as well as KW could catch, he was equally inept as a blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year. So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year. The explanation is in the wording. Kellen is a old 27 and he doesn't have the same ability than he did before the injuries. He may be able to put up another year or two of "serviceable" play, but Mankok sold high. If the Browns were close to winning it all, I would be mad, but we aren't so we do what is best for the 10's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonTheVolleyball Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint. Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.) If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise. I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC. Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole. Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestinPeace Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.) I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC. Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team. ROLF!! They can disagree all they want, that situation is not here. Deal with that reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonTheVolleyball Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Deal with that reality. Ironic. I'm saying the same thing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.) All those guys have something in common, a team that went to the playoffs more than 1 time since 2000 with the coach employed before the coach you listed. I am not saying the guys you mentioned aren't good coaches, I think they are for the most part (particularly Payton). They did however have some weapons available to them when they took over. I don't see a single name on that list that was in as bad shape as Mangini. More top 5 picks than winning seasons in the past decade, a raging QB controversy that has been allowed to brew so long it divides the fan base, weak individual units on both sides of the ball, two prima donna recieving threats looking for ways off the team, d-line men punching the QB in the lockerroom. I fail to see how that compares to going to the Ravens who had 1 bad season, but prior to that went 13-3 taking the division, had multiple players with superbowl rings on thier fingers, and were annual playoff contenders. If you want to build a successful organization, that are consistantly in the playoff hunt, with a culture of winning in the locker room, you have a long way to go, and I think it would be silly to just keep desperately grasping at straws year after year instead of having a little patience. I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC. If it is the same problem as seen before, maybe it is the personel, not the coaching. Mangini is rapidly moving through personel finding the guys he thinks will fit his system, wait for a few of those to acclimate to a point where they can affect the game and you might see something different. Progress is the key, and I understand that you have had two rough games to get started, but I don't think any definative evaluation can be made off four preseason games and two regular season. I don't think it can even be made off a single full season. Two seasons of absolutely no change, or negative growth might be enough of an indicator. I tend to think though that if there is any kind of positive movement, even just on one side of the ball, not necessarily reflected in the W/L column, you still need to give enough time for the complete plan to take effect before making a final judegement. Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team. Good luck finding your young genius, and I really mean that, I would like to see you guys doing well. The offensive romp three seasons ago was a lot of fun for my Fiancee and me. Just keep in mind the job experience section of a resume is there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilsonTheVolleyball Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I tend to think though that if there is any kind of positive movement, even just on one side of the ball, not necessarily reflected in the W/L column, you still need to give enough time for the complete plan to take effect before making a final judegement. Did you see enough "positive movement' today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Marvin Lewis is on year 7 in cinci.. I think the Fans deserve that much.. We have not had a coach in place longer than 3 years in the last decade. THAT IS WHY WE SUCK. No consistency in coach/GM.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimmreaper3 Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year. So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year. Question: Is Braylon a(n) UFA? Or is he Restricted? If the former, then there can be no doubt that we trade him this year. We *need* to trade him if Mangini is committed to actually building this team, because if Braylon is here 3 years from now, hats will be eaten. If he is restricted... well, we see what people are willing to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NebBrownsFan Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Question: Is Braylon a(n) UFA? Or is he Restricted? If the former, then there can be no doubt that we trade him this year. We *need* to trade him if Mangini is committed to actually building this team, because if Braylon is here 3 years from now, hats will be eaten. If he is restricted... well, we see what people are willing to give up. It all depends on if next season is uncapped or not. With no new CBA in place BE becomes a RFA instead of UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncoinskinland Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Did you see enough "positive movement' today? No, but that's exactly my point. You waited all of an off season and three games to get to this point. Maybe the revolving door at coach will land you someone better next time, but how will you know if you don't give them enough time to implement a system and execute with it. Mangini is being hung with the rope you had left over from Crennell. WTF do I care anyways, go ahead and pin the blame on your scapegoat. It's not even my team, I'm not gonna bother arguing a point you should already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 So, once again - How long does the new regime have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 How long did Romeo have? Shorter than that, that's for damn sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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