Bruce Drennan

[ChiefOrangeblood]

I have enjoyed Bruce for several years, but its getting harder and harder to watch ABAO. He must say "We know what we have in Anderson" and "we have to find out what Quinn can do" 100 times a show. How can someone who has made their living evaluating and reporting sports be so blind to the obvious facts that the rest of us see? Bruce wants to give Quinn the whole year to show what he has, win or lose. And he says that if Quinn does not work out we will have to draft a new QB because Anderson isnt a starter, but a back-up QB. Now if Brady Quinn would have come out this year and put up the same exact numbers that Anderson did, would Bruce say Quinn is just a back-up? HELL NO! Bruce would say that Brady Quinn is the savior QB of the Browns. If Anderson were black, Id suspect racism. If Brady Quinn threw for 29 touchdowns in his first (15) games,and took himself, his receiver and tight end to the pro bowl he would be named GOD of Cleveland. But when Anderson does it its ignorable. I cant figure out if Bruce is hot for Brady, has a grudge against Anderson, cant admit when hes wrong, or just plain stupid.

[Guest Masters]

Did the Browns win?

 

Did DA showing anything different from what he has shown over his last 10 starts?

 

Did CLE invest draft picks to go into the 1st round to draft Quinn?

 

When you look at the answers to those questions, you can see why Crennan is saying what he is saying.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

Well Anderson won 10 of his first 15 games as a starter

 

The offense moved the ball and SCORED Sunday (twice)

 

The fact that we wasted a 1st rounder on a bad QB (Quinn) does not mean we have to play him

 

Maybe Quinn fans understand yours and Drennans twisted logic, but the facts and stats prove you wrong. You can polish a turd (Quinn) all you want, but in the end its still gonna be a turd. But the fact is Mangini thinks the Quinn turd is as polished as it will get, so its time to flush Brady.

 

 

[Guest TheJokersWILD]

Well Anderson won 10 of his first 15 games as a starter

 

The offense moved the ball and SCORED Sunday (twice)

 

The fact that we wasted a 1st rounder on a bad QB (Quinn) does not mean we have to play him

 

Maybe Quinn fans understand yours and Drennans twisted logic, but the facts and stats prove you wrong. You can polish a turd (Quinn) all you want, but in the end its still gonna be a turd. But the fact is Mangini thinks the Quinn turd is as polished as it will get, so its time to flush Brady.

Lumbergh v2.0 The only difference is that Lumbergh is actually smart enough not to slam a very intelligent sports analyst. By the way, I think it's time to flush them both, difference is that I think Quinn will actually flourish with a different team.

[Guest Masters]

Well Anderson won 10 of his first 15 games as a starter

 

The offense moved the ball and SCORED Sunday (twice)

 

The fact that we wasted a 1st rounder on a bad QB (Quinn) does not mean we have to play him

 

Maybe Quinn fans understand yours and Drennans twisted logic, but the facts and stats prove you wrong. You can polish a turd (Quinn) all you want, but in the end its still gonna be a turd. But the fact is Mangini thinks the Quinn turd is as polished as it will get, so its time to flush Brady.

 

Those 10 of 15 are a long, long, long time ago in a season far far away.

 

The Browns still lost.

 

True, but you have to play him more than 6 games normally if you really want to know what you have.

 

It's not twisted logic, it's reality.

 

As to the last line, you can sooooo easily change that to be about Anderson as well.

[Chip Banks]

Did the Browns win?

 

Did DA showing anything different from what he has shown over his last 10 starts?

 

Did CLE invest draft picks to go into the 1st round to draft Quinn?

 

When you look at the answers to those questions, you can see why Crennan is saying what he is saying.

 

Okay. But there are 10+ other guys on offense that need to be evaluated as well. We just got our first read on MoMass and with Anderson's quicker release and threat of taking shots down field, I think we got a better read on some of the guys on our offensive line.

 

Who's to say that adding one constant (Anderson) doesn't actually give Mangini a better baseline for evaluation the pieces he has on offense where a dogged devotion to Quinn might leave us to ponder whether it's the chicken or the egg?

 

Look. Mangini and Daboll have seen Quinn's capabilities in practice. Quinn has warts on him. He's inaccurate throwing the ball over 20 yards in the air on a line. He's a middle-of-the-field QB. That doesn't mean he can't play at a high level in the NFL with a little improvement. But it might mean that Mangini was only a short push to determining that Quinn is NOT his franchise QB. If you've made that decision, developing Quinn isn't really important. And why pay him $11 million to learn on the job if you believe he's not the answer?

 

Mangini dumped Rucker and Bell, BTW, who also represented fair investment from the previous regime.

 

My guess is that Mangini wants to build a running game and have a QB who can stretch the defense. That guy might not be Anderson, but my guess is that he's more Anderson-like than Quinn-like.

 

If Mangini is convinced that he does not have a franchise QB on this roster, this is the right move. Even if not the popular one.

[Guest Masters]

Okay. But there are 10+ other guys on offense that need to be evaluated as well. We just got our first read on MoMass and with Anderson's quicker release and threat of taking shots down field, I think we got a better read on some of the guys on our offensive line.

 

Agree. Of course I am just happy to see them no longer trotting Cribbs out as the primary #2 WR.

 

Who's to say that adding one constant (Anderson) doesn't actually give Mangini a better baseline for evaluation the pieces he has on offense where a dogged devotion to Quinn might leave us to ponder whether it's the chicken or the egg?

 

True. I dont' disagree with that notion. It would be less chicken and egg if the only change was the QB though.

 

Look. Mangini and Daboll have seen Quinn's capabilities in practice. Quinn has warts on him. He's inaccurate throwing the ball over 20 yards in the air on a line. He's a middle-of-the-field QB. That doesn't mean he can't play at a high level in the NFL with a little improvement. But it might mean that Mangini was only a short push to determining that Quinn is NOT his franchise QB. If you've made that decision, developing Quinn isn't really important. And why pay him $11 million to learn on the job if you believe he's not the answer?

 

Yet they still chose him after all that to start the season. You really believe that the staff can figure that out in 2 1/2 QTRs of football, but couldn't do that through all of the QB camps, OTA, Mini-camps, training camp, and preseason? That says more about the staff than it does about either QB imo.

 

Mangini dumped Rucker and Bell, BTW, who also represented fair investment from the previous regime.

 

Yes, but those were lower picks and CLE didn't give up as much. Not to mention the typical development curve for those positions vs. the QB are night and day.

 

My guess is that Mangini wants to build a running game and have a QB who can stretch the defense. That guy might not be Anderson, but my guess is that he's Anderson-like.

 

Very well could be. I think we all knew the notion was he wants to build a running game first and foremost for the team to be successful.

 

If Mangini is convinced that he does not have a franchise QB on this roster, this is the right move. Even if not the popular one.

 

I'd agree with that. But I personally question the idea that it has been determined, considering all that has gone on from day one to yesterday.

 

[Gips]

I do agree we need to find out what brady has and 10 quarters of handcuffed playbook and ungelled players and against 3 very good teams just isnt nearly enough..and we do know what we have in anderception but maybe under this regime he has finally shed the bad decisions...i have little doubt that DA like BQ was is on a short leash 2 bad bak to back showing and bq will get his chance again hopefully uncuffed...

 

But as long as DA is playing good and not throwing to many picks i cant see BQ doing any better..thats just the truth from a bq fan thats a browns fan first..

[Vegasdogg]

Handcuffed playbook my ass. Who comes up with this BS. They called the plays and Brady didn't do much with them, and neither did the rest of the team.

 

Frye had a handcuffed playbook as well. It's all a conspiracy because DA has inside information on Lew Merletti?

 

Give me a break. Watch the games again.

 

 

[Chip Banks]

Masters. Mangini did chose Quinn as his starter. But I think it's fair to say that Quinn never delivered the knock out blow in Mangini's eyes. I'm not sure he was overwhelmed with either of his choices. But he had to start someone.

 

From everything that's transpired up until Mangini's hire, I think that the tie-breaker was going to go to Quinn. It did. But when the team struggled, he looked for a spark. If he's not sold on Quinn as the franchise, it's any easy move. Two years from now I doubt either QB will be on this roster.

 

My guess is that Quinn will still get chances this year and it will be with the guys who played yesterday and a few yet to be mixed in. Maybe even against the same team(s).

 

Rucker and Bell were not huge draft investments, but Opie did trade up last year to get both. I'm kind of surprised neither could stick on a roster this thin only one year removed from being drafted. Romeo was in no hurry to play these guys either.

 

I think Rucker landed on Philly's PS. Did Bell get picked up by anyone?

 

Is Mangini right? Time will tell. I don't think that his quick move to Anderson was illogical at 0-3 with virtually no offensive production.

[mopaji]

Handcuffed playbook my ass. Who comes up with this BS. They called the plays and Brady didn't do much with them, and neither did the rest of the team.

 

Frye had a handcuffed playbook as well. It's all a conspiracy because DA has inside information on Lew Merletti?

 

Give me a break. Watch the games again.

 

Actually one of my biggest gripes with Frye and Quinn is that they do have to throw away half of the playbook. And it's because both guys are INCREDIBLY limited in what they can do. So, the handcuffed idea is correct, it's just not for the reason Quinn lover's think.

[mopaji]

Can I just add to the board that the idea that "He was a first round pick that we gave up a lot to get" comes from the same guys that say "The Browns haven't had a good draft pick in 10 years!" So, which is it? Is Quinn the lone exception?

[Guest Masters]

Masters. Mangini did chose Quinn as his starter. But I think it's fair to say that Quinn never delivered the knock out blow in Mangini's eyes. I'm not sure he was overwhelmed with either of his choices. But he had to start someone.

 

From everything that's transpired up until Mangini's hire, I think that the tie-breaker was going to go to Quinn. It did. But when the team struggled, he looked for a spark. If he's not sold on Quinn as the franchise, it's any easy move. Two years from now I doubt either QB will be on this roster.

 

All of that is true. But first, w/ all the time they had, you'd think they'd have figured out before the first game. Especially the not sold on Quinn as a franchise. It makes me all that more leary of Mangini's ability to be a succssful head coach when he botches his first major decision and even in going to the bullpen the team still lost.

 

My guess is that Quinn will still get chances this year and it will be with the guys who played yesterday and a few yet to be mixed in. Maybe even against the same team(s).

 

That very well could happen. And considering all that has gone on with the team in Mangini's short tenure (and the Browns last 9 years), I certainly wouldn't be surprised.

 

Rucker and Bell were not huge draft investments, but Opie did trade up last year to get both. I'm kind of surprised neither could stick on a roster this thin only one year removed from being drafted. Romeo was in no hurry to play these guys either.

 

All I am saying is that is apples and oranges when looking at the investment of an NFL team when it comes to sacrificing 1st round picks. I am not all that surprised by either not actually making it. They were questionable picks at the time they were made.

 

 

I think Rucker landed on Philly's PS. Did Bell get picked up by anyone?

 

Is Mangini right? Time will tell. I don't think that his quick move to Anderson was illogical at 0-3 with virtually no offensive production.

 

It all depends on how you look at it I guess. At the end of the day, the results were the same in the only stat sheet that really matters.

 

[Guest Masters]

Can I just add to the board that the idea that "He was a first round pick that we gave up a lot to get" comes from the same guys that say "The Browns haven't had a good draft pick in 10 years!" So, which is it? Is Quinn the lone exception?

 

No he isn't. But you can't actually determine that he falls in the pile of bad picks unless you actually play him enough to judge where he's headed.

[Guest Masters]

Actually one of my biggest gripes with Frye and Quinn is that they do have to throw away half of the playbook. And it's because both guys are INCREDIBLY limited in what they can do. So, the handcuffed idea is correct, it's just not for the reason Quinn lover's think.

 

No one here has any real idea or knowledge if any part of the playbook has been thrown out for either QB on the roster today while they played. Shit, for all we know they threw out a different half the playbook for yesterdays game.

[BrownIndian]

No one here has any real idea or knowledge if any part of the playbook has been thrown out for either QB on the roster today while they played. Shit, for all we know they threw out a different half the playbook for yesterdays game.

 

Why would they want to do that ?

[Guest Masters]

Why would they want to do that ?

 

No one ever wants to. But no one can sit on this message board and preach as fact that the Browns coaching staff is cutting plays out of the playbook when either QB is playing. You can hypothisize, guess, speculate, etc., but you cannot state that as a fact when one has zero knowledge of it.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

Bruce is intelligent sometimes, other times a stubborn idiot. Remember this is the guy who said that any fan who didnt think Kerry Wood was an elite closer didnt know anything about baseball. And being a stubborn idiot, his ego was too inflated to admit that the almighty Bruce Drennan was wrong (even after Kerry Wood continued to blow game after game after game).

 

JokersWild- If you want to worship some ex-felon egomaniac (Drennan) who insists he knows everything, go ahead. If you want to support a loser QB (Quinn) feel free. I dont put much stock in a females opinion when it comes to sports.

 

If it takes 6 games to judge a QBs talent, go back and look at Andersons first 6 games. Looks like DA should be the next Tom Brady. And Anderson was surrounded by average players when he compiled his stats.

 

DA and Quinn both have the exact same playbook. They call the same plays for each QB. DA can throw a football and Quinn cant, thats why the same plays look so different. DA can execute, Quinn needs to be executed. The fact that people think they are handcuffing Quinn is a joke. Lets just sit around and lose for 2 years until Quinn has convinced every last one of you that he blows. Thankfully Mangini only needed 10 quarters to see the truth.

[Guest Masters]

If it takes 6 games to judge a QBs talent, go back and look at Andersons first 6 games. Looks like DA should be the next Tom Brady. And Anderson was surrounded by average players when he compiled his stats.

 

Most NFL experts, including Bill Walsh would strongly agree with you on the number of starts.

 

You must be someone who likes to leave out those first 3 starts in 2006 for DA.

 

If you think Winslow and Edwards are hardly average talents.

[damajuki]

Okay. But there are 10+ other guys on offense that need to be evaluated as well. We just got our first read on MoMass and with Anderson's quicker release and threat of taking shots down field, I think we got a better read on some of the guys on our offensive line.

 

Who's to say that adding one constant (Anderson) doesn't actually give Mangini a better baseline for evaluation the pieces he has on offense where a dogged devotion to Quinn might leave us to ponder whether it's the chicken or the egg?

 

Look. Mangini and Daboll have seen Quinn's capabilities in practice. Quinn has warts on him. He's inaccurate throwing the ball over 20 yards in the air on a line. He's a middle-of-the-field QB. That doesn't mean he can't play at a high level in the NFL with a little improvement. But it might mean that Mangini was only a short push to determining that Quinn is NOT his franchise QB. If you've made that decision, developing Quinn isn't really important. And why pay him $11 million to learn on the job if you believe he's not the answer?

 

Mangini dumped Rucker and Bell, BTW, who also represented fair investment from the previous regime.

 

My guess is that Mangini wants to build a running game and have a QB who can stretch the defense. That guy might not be Anderson, but my guess is that he's more Anderson-like than Quinn-like.

 

If Mangini is convinced that he does not have a franchise QB on this roster, this is the right move. Even if not the popular one.

Holy cow, that was the best, most reasonable post on the QB switch that I've read on here.

 

Nice job, Chip. Please post more.

[damajuki]

This thread has restored my faith in this board. Nice job, Chip and Masters.

 

Two well-argued and reasoned points of view.

 

I think Chip's version is closest to the truth: Mangini felt like the threat of DA would loosen things up, and he was right on that front. The offense certainly improved.

 

But, whomever you support, it's undeniable that Cincy's D is not of the caliber of our first three opponents, who are now a combined 10-1 and all three of whom are now certifiable playoff contenders.

 

So, Quinn looked awful against three very good teams and DA looked only decent against a decent team.

 

And that's the problem with the timing of the QB switch: it didn't allow for a reasonable sample size to determine just how good (or bad, some would say) Quinn really is at this point.

 

Again: we just still don't know and now, probably won't. That's obviously okay with Mangini but it remains a questionable way to build a franchise.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

Masters- How are the "above average talents Winslow and Edwards" doing this year. Sounds like maybe Anderson made them look better than they really are. And do you even remember the first time DA stepped on the field in a Browns uniform? Do your homework boy!

[lemosley01]

I have enjoyed Bruce for several years, but its getting harder and harder to watch ABAO. He must say "We know what we have in Anderson" and "we have to find out what Quinn can do" 100 times a show. How can someone who has made their living evaluating and reporting sports be so blind to the obvious facts that the rest of us see? Bruce wants to give Quinn the whole year to show what he has, win or lose. And he says that if Quinn does not work out we will have to draft a new QB because Anderson isnt a starter, but a back-up QB. Now if Brady Quinn would have come out this year and put up the same exact numbers that Anderson did, would Bruce say Quinn is just a back-up? HELL NO! Bruce would say that Brady Quinn is the savior QB of the Browns. If Anderson were black, Id suspect racism. If Brady Quinn threw for 29 touchdowns in his first (15) games,and took himself, his receiver and tight end to the pro bowl he would be named GOD of Cleveland. But when Anderson does it its ignorable. I cant figure out if Bruce is hot for Brady, has a grudge against Anderson, cant admit when hes wrong, or just plain stupid.

 

I'm not sure how you can make that statement and, at the same time, suggest that Mangini deserves 2 or 3 years (or even 1 year). This TEAM is still 0-4, and, prior to yesterday, what had Mangini and staff done to show that they would be successful?

[Guest Masters]

Masters- How are the "above average talents Winslow and Edwards" doing this year. Sounds like maybe Anderson made them look better than they really are. And do you even remember the first time DA stepped on the field in a Browns uniform? Do your homework boy!

 

I do remember the first time he stepped on the field against KC. He threw well on a KC team that Frye was lighting up before his injury (and Frye statistically did better against).

 

So why wasn't DA able to make those guys look good last year? Do you see the problem with your straw man argument there. Also, Winslow isn't exactly doing poorly on what is very bad team this year. But I guess you think guys making circus catches game in and game out is the QB making the receiver look good.

 

Based on your closing line, I am going to venture a guess that you actually are still doing homework.

 

 

[NebBrownsFan]

Well Anderson won 10 of his first 15 games as a starter

 

The offense moved the ball and SCORED Sunday (twice)

 

The fact that we wasted a 1st rounder on a bad QB (Quinn) does not mean we have to play him

 

Maybe Quinn fans understand yours and Drennans twisted logic, but the facts and stats prove you wrong. You can polish a turd (Quinn) all you want, but in the end its still gonna be a turd. But the fact is Mangini thinks the Quinn turd is as polished as it will get, so its time to flush Brady.

 

If you want to be technical (and ACCURATE), DA won 10 of his first 18 games, or doesn't 2006 count? Of course that leaves out the 3-6 from last season. So far DA has seasons of 0-3, 10-5, 3-6. Tell me, which of these don't fit with the others?

[NebBrownsFan]

Masters- How are the "above average talents Winslow and Edwards" doing this year. Sounds like maybe Anderson made them look better than they really are. And do you even remember the first time DA stepped on the field in a Browns uniform? Do your homework boy!

 

Seems from one of your earlier posts that you are the one that doesn't remember the first time DA stepped on the field in a Browns uniform.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

They took Quinn out and put Anderson in, that was the smartest coaching move in the history of the "new" Browns.

 

Masters- By the looks of your comments you just stumbled in from the garage from a long afternoon of huffing paint thinner.

 

[Guest Masters]

They took Quinn out and put Anderson in, that was the smartest coaching move in the history of the "new" Browns.

 

Masters- By the looks of your comments you just stumbled in from the garage from a long afternoon of huffing paint thinner.

 

And on to the insults after realizing you put your foot in your own mouth.....

 

If my choices are stumbling in from the garage after huffing paint thinner, or your level, I'll take some dutch boy blue please.

[ChiefOrangeblood]

More of a joke than an insult. Guess you got your sense of humor the same place you got your logic. I didnt stick my foot in my mouth, I stuck it up your ass.

[Guest Masters]

More of a joke than an insult. Guess you got your sense of humor the same place you got your logic. I didnt stick my foot in my mouth, I stuck it up your ass.

 

Uh huh..... So I guess I should be seeing you posting one of those articles that reflect the FACT you claimed real soon.

 

Oh, and I have a sense of humor. When you post something remotely witty I will laugh. Though I suspect it might be a long wait for me