The Measurement

[dawgpound3]

But our perspective on the call was jaded. It was the angle. Look at replays , I though it was short as well Until the replay. You can see the Camera angle wasn't giving us the true Look. I do a Lot of Filming and Photography , I know this is the case. Its REAL Obvious when you watch the replay and are looking for it.

 

Guys stop fighting over this. It's over, man. They won, and we lost again. Yes, lost again. Let's all focus onto Green Bay.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Um there was way more evidence than what they needed on that play. You have to complete the play without losing possession, which he clearly didn't. You could roll 800 times before losing the ball and it's an incompletion. You have to come to a stop with possession, thats when the play ends.

 

Its a pretty simple rule, you should be able to understand that, you're a pretty simple guy.

Dude NO way does that get over turned in many cases. Even the Play by Play guy was saying its a catch . Your jaded in your thinking , as I am . My friend a Philly Fan thought TD. my brother IN law (cowboy Fan) thought TD. Wilcots was doubting it, It was a TD on the Field HA D to be irrefutable thats why this system SUCKS . NO Consistency. I think if you line up 100 people , it would be 50/50 split. Which equals TD. NOT Irrefutable !!

[Thomas5737]

Dude NO way does that get over turned in many cases. Even the Play by Play guy was saying its a catch . Your jaded in your thinking , as I am . My friend a Philly Fan thought TD. my brother IN law (cowboy Fan) thought TD. Wilcots was doubting it, It was a TD on the Field HA D to be irrefutable thats why this system SUCKS . NO Consistency. I think if you line up 100 people , it would be 50/50 split. Which equals TD. NOT Irrefutable !!

 

I don't care if you have every mentally challenged person you know agreeing with you, it's still a simple rule, not one of the 'judgement call' rules that can be confusing. KEEP POSSESSION UNTIL THE PLAY IS DEAD. It's an end zone rule that is clearly written.

[Riffer X]

Here's the rule ya silly Yinzers. You must control the ball when you hit the ground. He didn't, it clearly dislodged even though he still had it. It wasn't overturned from when he rolled over, it was the initial Quincy Morgan bobble that got him.

 

Why were both teams reacting as if Big Gay was short when they were looking at the measurement? That was ridiculous and a bad spot to begin with.

 

Since when is it an announcers job to comment on a supposed holding call he thinks he sees on a kickoff return? Not only that, the choad kept talking about for five fooking minutes. I have never seen that before in my life, but for some reason these things only seem to happen when Pittspuke is involved.

 

Yinz outplayed us and are better, but it still pisses me off you can't see the calls you always seem to get. We got a roughing call cuz our guy was being pulled and held by his facemask right into Big Gay. The ref was standing right there.

 

Good ole Pittspuke. For those that remember, this shit goes back to 1978 when Larry Anderson of the Steelers fumbled the opening kickoff in OT. Browns recovered, FG and game was over. They ruled him down, although nobody was within three yards of him. The great flea flicker to Bennie Cunningham ensued, another part of Steeler lore precipitated by complete bullshit.

[ballpeen]

 

WTF

 

 

Unlike what I said in the tavern....that doesn't appear to be angle...all I can say is I wonder if the pole isn't the maker anymore and the white link is now the measuring point????

 

In baseball a tie goes to the runner...in football, do you have to make 10 yards or go over 10 yards??

 

I say go 10 yards.

 

 

In the end, that didn't cost us the game.

 

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

Unlike what I said in the tavern....that doesn't appear to be angle...all I can say is I wonder if the pole isn't the maker anymore and the white link is now the measuring point????

 

In baseball a tie goes to the runner...in football, do you have to make 10 yards or go over 10 yards??

 

I say go 10 yards.

 

 

In the end, that didn't cost us the game.

I agree 100%. This shot seems close enough that they angle shouldn't matter.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Unlike what I said in the tavern....that doesn't appear to be angle...all I can say is I wonder if the pole isn't the maker anymore and the white link is now the measuring point????

 

In baseball a tie goes to the runner...in football, do you have to make 10 yards or go over 10 yards??

 

I say go 10 yards.

 

 

In the end, that didn't cost us the game.

LOOK AT the Pink Tag at the Bottom. Its NOT a side angle its from the Left FRONT you can see the FACE of it . Are you seriously That stupid ????????????

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Here's the rule ya silly Yinzers. You must control the ball when you hit the ground. He didn't, it clearly dislodged even though he still had it. It wasn't overturned from when he rolled over, it was the initial Quincy Morgan bobble that got him.

 

Why were both teams reacting as if Big Gay was short when they were looking at the measurement? That was ridiculous and a bad spot to begin with.

 

Since when is it an announcers job to comment on a supposed holding call he thinks he sees on a kickoff return? Not only that, the choad kept talking about for five fooking minutes. I have never seen that before in my life, but for some reason these things only seem to happen when Pittspuke is involved.

 

Yinz outplayed us and are better, but it still pisses me off you can't see the calls you always seem to get. We got a roughing call cuz our guy was being pulled and held by his facemask right into Big Gay. The ref was standing right there.

 

Good ole Pittspuke. For those that remember, this shit goes back to 1978 when Larry Anderson of the Steelers fumbled the opening kickoff in OT. Browns recovered, FG and game was over. They ruled him down, although nobody was within three yards of him. The great flea flicker to Bennie Cunningham ensued, another part of Steeler lore precipitated by complete bullshit.

 

Dude he had a Catch.. Hit the Ground and Rolled over. As rolling over a SECOND time the ball came loose , shown More than enough control. They Plain of the Goal line was Broken. The Play was Dead as hit hot the ground and Still had the ball locked away... Thats BS and STILL A Judgement call. Typical BS NFL Replay. It doesnt work . And sill with you argument , it just shows NO Bias toward Pittsburgh. Or they would have said No Irrefutable evidence , and let it stand . After all they WANTED Pittsburgh to win... right ?? You guys aint gonna agree with me and I aint gonna agree with you. So , The refs ruled with You and we won anyway , so Thats life.

 

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Silverback My Bad Bro...misread your Post. Ignor my PM.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

I'd really like to see a straight angle view!

 

 

What we have here is a parallax :

 

A simple everyday example of parallax can be seen in the dashboard of motor vehicles that use a "needle" type speedometer gauge (when the needle is mounted in front of its dial scale in a way that leaves a noticeable spacing between them). When viewed from directly in front, the speed may show 60 (i.e. the needle appears against the '60' mark on the dial behind); but when viewed from the passenger seat (i.e. from an oblique angle) the needle can appear against a slightly lower or higher mark (depending on whether it is viewed from the left or from the right), because of the combined effect of the spacing and the angle of view.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Passenger seat is usually right of the driver seat.

 

 

This is from the Dictionary there Dr. Stone. lol.... You think that all came from MY Brain ?? LOL

 

*Note but when viewed from the passenger seat (i.e. from an oblique angle) the needle can appear against a slightly lower OR higher mark (depending on whether it is viewed from the left or from the right) it doesn't say specifically Which in this description.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

just messin with ya bro!

LOL... Thanks for thinking I am smart enough to pull that from my Dome though !!!

[JC]

This was probably the most mind-blowing thing I have ever witnessed in football. It was clearly not a first down. I can't even say anything else about it. I don't have the words. Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Most likely not, but how in the hell do you mess this up? This is worse than botching a coin toss.

 

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

This was probably the most mind-blowing thing I have ever witnessed in football. It was clearly not a first down. I can't even say anything else about it. I don't have the words. Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Most likely not, but how in the hell do you mess this up? This is worse than botching a coin toss.

 

 

See the Above ....

[Bob806]

This was probably the most mind-blowing thing I have ever witnessed in football. It was clearly not a first down. I can't even say anything else about it. I don't have the words. Would it have made a difference in the outcome? Most likely not, but how in the hell do you mess this up? This is worse than botching a coin toss.

 

You mean the famous Jerome Bettis coin toss in Detroit?

[Mr. T]

Now we know how the Seahawks felt, this was our Superbowl for the season.

 

I cant wait for the rematch.

[Fitzhume]

I'm surprised some really hasn't said anything about the spot of the ball instead of the view of the measurement. Anyone noticed when he dove he was stopped about a yard short but the ball was spotted at the front of the pile? Did he army crawl on the ground after the play to get there? Hehe

 

I think he's a <-- that's supposed to be a ninja by the way.

[yourdaddy(askyermom)]

You Underdawgs must feel like the world is stacked against you when even the referees turn out to be Steelers fans. You got screwed on that call.

 

And you got screwed by Modell, Couch, Winslow, The Drive, Bradshaw, Ben, your sorry city, fate... hell, you have to speak of Bernie Never-Won-Anything Kosar in the same reverent tones that real teams reserve for the Montanas, Namaths and Aikmans of their past. It's a shame.

 

I applaud your dedicated fandom.

 

But you really should put up an over/under poll on whiny threads about cheating the day before the game so we can at least have someone benefit from your stale luck.

 

Pops

[ClevelandFanForLife]

I really wish there was a straight look at it. I just saw it again on ESPN and its clear that the angle of the camera is "way" off but why can't we see a straight angle?

there are some pictures posted in some of the threads that give the best angle. we got hosed. i am not saying that it changed the outcome of the game or that the steelers cheat; but come on, you know that was a bs call.

[ballpeen]

LOOK AT the Pink Tag at the Bottom. Its NOT a side angle its from the Left FRONT you can see the FACE of it . Are you seriously That stupid ????????????

 

Apparently so...I don't know what you are talking about when you talk about the pink tag at the bottom.

 

As I said earlier, I thought it was angle as my first impression.

 

While I know there is some angle in the shot, i don't know if it is enough to distort the view that much....thus why I said i wonder if the pole isn't the mark and the links on the chain are now the measuring point.

 

And left front angle?? Seems that would make it look over the line needed...do you mean left rear??

 

[letmedowns]

Where is the ONE intelligent Steeler poster that comes here often to post. He usually makes sense.

 

The spot of the ball was a gift to big Ben. When watching the ref that was running up had the right spot. Then all of the sudden it was put a YARD further then it actually was. And after all that they still were short. And the refs give it to them? I'm still speechless. ANYONE that watched that play saw big BEN was short the 1st time and the time after they gave him that gift as a spot. Unbelievable.

 

Now the catch of Hines Ward. In my opinion and everyone else should be on board that, that was a catch. Rolled over two times and then lost the ball. IMO opinion TD. But in the NFL rulebook this year they said when catching a ball in the endzone for a TD you must maintain control through the whole process when hitting the GROUND. He didn't so by rule no catch.

 

You might have watched Sunday night football with the play to Johnny Knox. Where he didn't hit the ground got two feet in and then got the ball knocked out of his hands. Still a TD by rule cause he maintained possession of the ball withOUT hitting the ground.

 

In our opinion Ward caught the ball. But the nfl rules say he didn't. And he shouldn't have been in a position to catch shit because it was Clevelands ball. If they were playing the Patriots or Colts I would have to believe that it goes the other way.

 

And why did Mangini not run out there and lose his mind?

[ATENEARS]

I'm surprised some really hasn't said anything about the spot of the ball instead of the view of the measurement. Anyone noticed when he dove he was stopped about a yard short but the ball was spotted at the front of the pile? Did he army crawl on the ground after the play to get there? Hehe

 

I think he's a <-- that's supposed to be a ninja by the way.

 

I did point out that the spot of the ball might have been the biggest error in the whole thing (4th post in this same thread). We got the double whammy of a bad spot and phantom non-chain link (or two).

[ATENEARS]

Where is the ONE intelligent Steeler poster that comes here often to post. He usually makes sense.

 

The spot of the ball was a gift to big Ben. When watching the ref that was running up had the right spot. Then all of the sudden it was put a YARD further then it actually was. And after all that they still were short. And the refs give it to them? I'm still speechless. ANYONE that watched that play saw big BEN was short the 1st time and the time after they gave him that gift as a spot. Unbelievable.

 

Now the catch of Hines Ward. In my opinion and everyone else should be on board that, that was a catch. Rolled over two times and then lost the ball. IMO opinion TD. But in the NFL rulebook this year they said when catching a ball in the endzone for a TD you must maintain control through the whole process when hitting the GROUND. He didn't so by rule no catch.

 

You might have watched Sunday night football with the play to Johnny Knox. Where he didn't hit the ground got two feet in and then got the ball knocked out of his hands. Still a TD by rule cause he maintained possession of the ball withOUT hitting the ground.

 

In our opinion Ward caught the ball. But the nfl rules say he didn't. And he shouldn't have been in a position to catch shit because it was Clevelands ball. If they were playing the Patriots or Colts I would have to believe that it goes the other way.

 

And why did Mangini not run out there and lose his mind?

 

Thank-you, saved me a post and long drwan out explanation. In a nut shell: By NFL Rule change, THAT was not a catch. They have been enforcing that rule since the biginning of the season, just as if you are forced out of bounds on a catch, it is no longer a catch had they determined you would have been inbounds without the bump. New rules ... end of story.

[82OZZIE82]

I've watched football for over 40 years and NEVER seen a meaurement botched until this one. That said, I'm not sure if it was botched or just PREPAID like the Superbowl in Detroit was.

 

I know Pittsburgh fans want to pretend they got screwed on pass to Ward in the end zone the very next play. Basically you still have 3 points awarded to a team that SHOULD have lost possession of the ball. That wasn't even close enough to measure unless of course the spot got shadey in the first place. As usual, the Rooneys got it covered.

 

I don't really think Pittsburgh needed the help today but as usual somebody was all too ambitious to provide it wearing the black and white.

- Tom F.

 

Those weren't flags being dropped in Detroit, they were terrible towels. The Hines Ward td was a touchdown because the catch was complete once his elbow hit the ground... the measurement was pure pathetic...

[mopaji]

Its funny how you forget their was a major holding completley missed on your first td. Everyone seen it on the intial play and the announcer even pointed it out as it happened. Then the replay just magnified how obvious it was. But go ahead and be a typical Browns fan; deny any call has ever helped you and refuse to admitt you lost fair and sqaure. That kind of attitude is why your team sucks.

 

 

Yeah, except it wasn't a hold and they cleared it up after the next commercial break by showing the replay. Plus, it had no bearing on the result of the play so its a good non-call. So basically, you're just talking with no real reason or basis.

 

The bad spot matters because it was a huge momentum shift when we stopped them and it resulted in 3 points instead if us getting the ball back with 2 time outs and at leas ta chance to score.

[hx214]

All I can say is that I've watched ALOT of football in my time and I have never, not once in my entire life seen an angle shot of a camera matter. The shot I am looking at right this minute that was emailed to me by my friend asking me WTF the refs were doing is the same exact shot I see from a camera on ever signal measurement I'm ever seen. The ball is short, with air in between the front of the ball and the marker.

 

You can't say that it didn't matter. You can't say that it didn't effect the outcome. Ya the game is over, but I look at it this way. Big Gay and the Steelers are in field goal range on 4 and 1 with a 7 point lead so instead of taking the easy points and extending the lead, the arrogant morons go for it, and our defensive line stops Gay cold. This Pumps up the Defense, makes the Steelers look like the morons they are, and at worst keeps the game at 14-7 going into half time. That's a hell of a different story than what ended up happening.

 

The officials need to have some type of explanation. Like everybody else said, if this was a PAT'S game or a NYG's game you'd turn on ESPN right now and it would be the only thing being talked about. If an easy call like this is so mishandled, how is anybody suppose to feel like the refs have any credibility.

 

[jrb12711]

that's short, unless like people said the stick isn't actually the first down marker. I don't see how a camera angle makes a difference there, pictures tell the tale. I still think we would of lost sure, but you don't know how it would of changed momentum and confidence.

 

I think the thing that's downright terrible however more than anything else is the obvious bias the announcers had for the steelers. It was honest to God sickening. This was the call when cribbs ran it back:

 

" *sigh* cribbs looks like he has something there, and he's got the sideline"

"OMG DID YOU SEE THAT HOLD, THEY CLEARLY GOT AWAY WITH A MISSED CALL THERE!"

 

and on all those friking fumbles in the third it'd be like:

 

"WHAT AN EXCELLENT PLAY BY AN ALL PRO, JUST A GREAT PLAY!"

to "well Willie never really had the ball and the browns were fortunate to fall on it"

 

It may not bother you guys, but it really is just sickening to me. It's not just the steelers either I suppose, the pats and cowboys get the same bias too.

[choco]

normally, anyone with a basic understanding of geometry, which Freak does not have, would know that an oblique viewing angle would also cause the same oblique angle to show between the centerline of the chain and the bottom of the photo (law of supplements).....but the 2 are parallel, meaning the oblique angle is so small that the sine of a small angle is negligible under 10 degrees......thus the linear translation of that small angle is also negligible.

 

just because the "pink tag" is slightly turned does not mean the view is at an angle, but rather the person holding the stick is not holding it straight. pretty weak argument for such a blown call, but you can try and back that up with numbers if ya like.....

[ATENEARS]

 

WTF

 

On the News last night, one of the local News channels showed the view from their sideline camera. It was taken from the opposite side of the one above, and looked to be straight on, even with the stick. It looked almost identical (short in distant) as the one above.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Actually, it was a first down, because the guy holding the post, hadn't leaned it backwards at a 45 degree angle to make it touch the ball yet.

 

It's a pittspuke rule of measuring.

 

Like the old hit on Carson Palmer that blew his knee so the squeelers could go to the superbowl. It wasn't really an intentional hit

 

on Palmer's knee, it was just a perfect accident.

 

All these years, and I have never seen any angle of measurement for a first down, college or pro, that was not what it looked like.

 

Even a half inch, quarter inch, is what it is, and what it's called.

 

But not in corrupt Pittspuke land.