Mangini Mistake -

[BrownsKidd]

http://www.ohio.com/sports/65964347.html

 

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sports columnist

 

CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

 

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

 

The Browns were abysmal.

 

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

 

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

 

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

 

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

 

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.

 

Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

 

The Browns ended last season

playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

 

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

 

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

 

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

 

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

 

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

 

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

 

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

 

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

 

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

 

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

 

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

 

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

 

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

 

The evidence isn't there.

 

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

 

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

 

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

 

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

 

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

 

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

 

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

 

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

 

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

 

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

 

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

 

Heck, it can't be worse.

 

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

 

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

 

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

 

What's taking place is simply not working.

[Gips]

It cant get worse because the browns invisible meddling owner who refuses to sell despite being hated is the one at fault and will likely leave his new lapdog coach/GM in place...im just telling you guys right now this franchise is as good as dead...this club has a really bad reputation from the top down and we cant attract creative winning coaches or proven GMs because winners cant be lapdogs..and now with mangenuises new smart guy bully boy contract blunders and disputes agents arent going to deal this club good players without big huge cap smacking upfront gaurantees for their clients...this club has no class and the players themselves wont want to be here so we are becoming a minor league farm team..we are the new nfl europe..people need to wake up before its to late...again...

 

The people of cleveland and browns fans everywhere deserve better than this shit...our once proud history deserves better as well..

[Sony Reed]

It cant get worse because the browns invisible meddling owner who refuses to sell despite being hated is the one at fault and will likely leave his new lapdog coach/GM in place...im just telling you guys right now this franchise is as good as dead...this club has a really bad reputation from the top down and we cant attract creative winning coaches or proven GMs because winners cant be lapdogs..and now with mangenuises new smart guy bully boy contract blunders and disputes agents arent going to deal this club good players without big huge cap smacking upfront gaurantees for their clients...this club has no class and the players themselves wont want to be here so we are becoming a minor league farm team..we are the new nfl europe..people need to wake up before its to late...again...

 

The people of cleveland and browns fans everywhere deserve better than this shit...our once proud history deserves better as well..

 

These are the guys mangini wanted and as the article states things are as bad as a franchise can get, the draft and a few free agents won't fix this mess that mangin has created

 

I say that lerner needs to admit he made a huge mistake with Mangini and get rid of this guy, I as a fan don't see things improving anytime soon, as you stated what free agent would want to come here unless he is greatly overpaid and it seems like not many players in the league would be thrilled about playing for Mangini, same with trying to get experienced coaches to come here.

 

I believe the reason we are seeing Daboll is because this is a guy that Mangin can control and he has a fear of hiring a experienced offensive coordinator who knows what he's doing because Mangini might not be able to control him.

 

There is some talent on this team, this team should be better than a expansion team, Mangini has destoyed this team in a effort to prove he is smarter than everyone, Mangini is making Ted Stepien look smart

 

[DestinFunk]

These are the guys mangini wanted and as the article states things are as bad as a franchise can get, the draft and a few free agents won't fix this mess that mangin has created

 

I say that lerner needs to admit he made a huge mistake with Mangini and get rid of this guy, I as a fan don't see things improving anytime soon, as you stated what free agent would want to come here unless he is greatly overpaid and it seems like not many players in the league would be thrilled about playing for Mangini, same with trying to get experienced coaches to come here.

 

I believe the reason we are seeing Daboll is because this is a guy that Mangin can control and he has a fear of hiring a experienced offensive coordinator who knows what he's doing because Mangini might not be able to control him.

 

There is some talent on this team, this team should be better than a expansion team, Mangini has destoyed this team in a effort to prove he is smarter than everyone, Mangini is making Ted Stepien look smart

 

Daboll was just next in line...and Mangini wanted to keep rollin with his jets flow as much as possible...he really felt and may have been right that they were close...so why not bring as many people in that know what i do and how i do it?..kind of makes sense..the biggest issue is Bill Callahan fell through..i feel that s the biggest blow of the offseason...his OL smarts and experience would have this team much further along than it is with Daboll...he fell through Marty Jr was never available..so the next guy in line was daboll as he was the QB coach...and knew the system..

 

I am happy with Ryan...I think he brings passion and scheme...although the talent level is low and its showing more know where he problem areas are than ever before...but having a rookie on th OC side is not a smart move IMO....

 

when baltimore retooled last year they hired cam cameron...one of the best OCs in the game..but everyone was too busy laughing at his head coaching record to remeber where he fits best in a staff...look at baltimores offense the last 2 years with him...

 

we need a STUD OC...not a newbie..not a first time play caller...one that knows the talent he needs to make his O go...

[JoeSixPat]

I'd be surprised if Lerner would pull the plug on Mangini after just half a season... as bad as Mangini is on so many different levels, as an owner he'd have absolutley no credibility for making such a bad, rash decision, letting Mangini pick the GM and then abandoning him after just 8 games or so.

 

Then again, I suppose that's exactly what Mangini did pulling the plug on the "winner" of the QB competition after just 2.5 games. So much for supporting your players as a coach.

 

Yeah - if it's fair enough for Mangini to do it to Quinn it's fair enough for Lerner to do it to Mangini.

[ballpeen]

I am as frustrated as anyone, but pulling the plug at this point is premature.

 

No doubt the offense is in shambles, and that does need to be addressed this off season, but there is little that can be done at this point.

 

Switching coaches mid stream has never worked, and it won't here. Right now, how many games have we lost that might have been won had we kept with Romeo and crew?? I doubt we would have been sitting on 5 wins..or even 3.

 

Next year at this time is the time to consider dumping Mangini.

[buster]

Good article and thanks for sharing.

 

Either the Browns trust Mangini and we get a super awesome team in 5 years......or this team fails miserably. It's almost a trade off .......do we want an OK team and play for today......or do we want to save all of our chips and hope we are dealt a really awesome hand over the next few years in terms of draft picks........

 

 

[peterbell]

So now we listen to some English major telling us how to think. What is this guys football backround, he talks about play calling..talent..He really know nothing about pro football, most of you here are more knowledgeable then this dork. Mangini can and will turn this around, of this I'm sure. MacDoush is just trying to sell newspapers (which will be obsolete in 10 years if that) so the print media all over the country is doing the "Rag" style..opinions, gossip...not facts. I don't believe anything I read in any newspaper anymore..do you?..90% is inaccurate or misleading..Don't get suckered by this crap..

 

We need to support this rebuilding process..theres no quick fix..Hell, only 2 of the 26 players Mangini cut from the Browns are on active NFL rosters..that should tell you something.

[glenby73]

Finally made it to a Browns game this year. Unlike the last 3 years, I don't have the money to flush on tickets so I'm only attending 3 games this year.

 

I don't remember much of the game, which was pre-planned and well executed!

 

Here's what I do remember...

 

Getting to the port parking lot on the west end of the stadium at 9:45 and finding it practically vacant. Nice thing is we got to park up front. Bad thing is it showed me just how many people either weren't coming, or didn't care to tailgate before the game.... that is until all the vehicles with Wisconsin plates started arriving (and one Detroit fan).

 

Parking there has gone up from $20 to $25

 

I'm actually better at cornhole after 3 beers.

 

Eating onions that fell on the pavement are still ok to put on your burger as long as you grill 'em first.

 

The more you drink the longer the line is at the two porta-potty's.

 

I'm not so good at cornhole after 6 or 7 beers.

 

I saw so many cheeseheads in the stadium I am still constipated.

 

They were in the row in front of me. To my left. To my right. The one's on my right bought their tix on ebay for $30 each ($40 seats).

 

The beers in the stadium look smaller this year.

 

Browns fans started leaving in the middle of the third quarter.

 

The only time there was a line for the pisser was at halftime. The other 6 times I visited the facilities it was smooooooth sailing!

 

If you fold your ticket in half the SECOND person to mark your ticket for smoking may not see the FIRST mark on your ticket. Therefore, you can stay in the stadium instead of getting booted. That's cool cuz then I can use the bathroom in the stadium where there is no line, versus the porta-potty in the parking lot that was seriously backed up.

 

We were the only people on the steps leading to the exit after the game. Normally it looks like a cattle drive. But I'm not complaining. It got me to the porta potty sooner.

 

My buddy told me what the score of the game was. I have yet to watch the tape to witness it for myself.

 

 

the moral of the story is this... (long pause as I try and determine the moral of the story..... and glance at the title of this thread because I don't remember what it was about....... oh yeah...... k, here goes.....)

 

the moral of the story is this... I don't know if Mangini is the guy. I know Romeo wasn't.

 

The fact a beat writer is calling for the coaches head before we even play half a season, his first season, says a lot. Our problems go deeper than Mangini. EM didn't hire himself. Since our return this franchise is worked hard to develop a legacy of underachieving. We are the poster child for how not to do things. The stigma and odor that surrounds us is pungent enough nobody wants to get close.

 

DA or BQ. I don't think either one is the first choice of EM. But he looked at the current situation and decided he had to ride it out for now. I have to believe we shopped 'em. It didn't work out. End of story.

 

I was done with Romeo after two years. Took two more before he was fired. I'm not done with EM. Am I super excited about how he was hired? No. Am I super excited about how things are looking right now? No. But damn, give a man a chance. If I was the coach of this team I might just go all Butch Davis on their ass. See ya!

 

Would a different coach get a few more wins out of this group, I don't know. But whoever is the coach isn't going to turn it around in one year barring some type of miracle. And I don't want some fluke. Look what the 10-6 fluke has brought us. Give me progress. Slow, steady progress. I know, .....this isn't progress. But you can't expect to see things change in the middle of a season. This is our team. This is who we have for the rest of the year. Like Coach Green says, "They are who we thought they were." A 6-10 team at best and even that looks like it was overly optimistic.

 

We didn't expect to make the playoffs this year. We are always optimistic and full of hope but even we weren't dumb enough to predict playoffs.

 

I know, I too would settle for competitive right now. But maybe we're still fooling ourselves. Maybe we're arguing over whether the glass is half full or half empty and it's actually 3/4 empty, or a 1/4 full for you always positive types! Maybe we're just too close to see it.

 

 

 

[BrownIndian]

The next 11 draft picks will determine Mangini's claim to the coaching seat. This season is a washout and unless our WR's can learn to get separation and catch the ball i do not expect anything this season. but next year we have draft picks + salary cap space. Ofcourse it is unfair to all the ticket buyers who are going to waste their money on a futile season ...

[funkamungus]

hit it on the head!

 

FIRE Charlie Brown PLEASE!

 

He allowss the same thing over and over and lacks intelligence. No matter what Lucy says, you're not going to kick it Charlie Mangini.

[funkamungus]

I am as frustrated as anyone, but pulling the plug at this point is premature.

 

No doubt the offense is in shambles, and that does need to be addressed this off season, but there is little that can be done at this point.

 

Switching coaches mid stream has never worked, and it won't here. Right now, how many games have we lost that might have been won had we kept with Romeo and crew?? I doubt we would have been sitting on 5 wins..or even 3.

 

Next year at this time is the time to consider dumping Mangini.

 

 

So we can ruin next year as well? and make a bunch of bad draft picks which ruin several seasons? Fire him NOW. He isn't liked by players and they wont produce for him. Not liked nationally either, and apparently by the refs, so he'll get the short end on close calls and things of that nature. He is a real world Charlie Brown.

[Solon16]

The only benefit to cashing him out now...would be if the guy you replace him with, will be the coach next year...period. That way the guy they replace him with gets to know the team upclose, during practice, during games, gets to know the personnel rather than watching them on tape and trying to determine who they are....other than that perfect scenario...we aint doing it UNFORTUNATELY...I bet Rob Ryan could do better tho!

[DawgTracker]

What did Jimmy Johnson do in his first season with the cowboys? Wasn't he 1-15?

[Solon16]

ha ha ha ha EM = JJ? Jimmie johnson drafted a franchise Qb that went 1-15....then he was the beneficiary of the worst trade in NFL history! Then Drafted like a austistic savant

[JoeSixPat]

The next 11 draft picks will determine Mangini's claim to the coaching seat. This season is a washout and unless our WR's can learn to get separation and catch the ball i do not expect anything this season. but next year we have draft picks + salary cap space. Ofcourse it is unfair to all the ticket buyers who are going to waste their money on a futile season ...

 

As the article writer points out, the moves that Mangini has made - bringing in throwaway Jets and declining to draft Sanchez among other moves - shouldn't make anyone get their hopes up too high.

 

Whether Mangini can restore his lost credibility with players remains to be seen as well. It seems pretty well established that free agents are saying "anywhere but Cleveland" at this point too - meaning the Browns at the very least will have to overpay for mediocre talent.

 

Don't want to say I told you so... but I told you so.

[BrownIndian]

As the article writer points out, the moves that Mangini has made - bringing in throwaway Jets and declining to draft Sanchez among other moves - shouldn't make anyone get their hopes up too high.

 

Whether Mangini can restore his lost credibility with players remains to be seen as well. It seems pretty well established that free agents are saying "anywhere but Cleveland" at this point too - meaning the Browns at the very least will have to overpay for mediocre talent.

 

Don't want to say I told you so... but I told you so.

 

Perhaps, but at the end of the day we are fans and we dont get any say in who to hire. Besides firing him now is going to make us look very bad for other viable coaching candidates. When snyder approached Shanahan for the Washington coaching role, Shanahan declined to take it this year stating that he cant engineer a turn around in the middle of the season. That is kinda of where we are. We got rid of some of our talent for draft picks leaving us short changed this year. rob ryan is not a long term answer and he cant improve us in short term either. We basically have to ride it out as far as this year goes. If mangini shows that he can improve this team then i will be looking at the final few games, Our crop of talent can only perhaps beat the lions, raiders and chiefs and failure to do so is all the indication we need than Mangini was a bad hire.

[JoeSixPat]

Perhaps, but at the end of the day we are fans and we dont get any say in who to hire. Besides firing him now is going to make us look very bad for other viable coaching candidates. When snyder approached Shanahan for the Washington coaching role, Shanahan declined to take it this year stating that he cant engineer a turn around in the middle of the season. That is kinda of where we are. We got rid of some of our talent for draft picks leaving us short changed this year. rob ryan is not a long term answer and he cant improve us in short term either. We basically have to ride it out as far as this year goes. If mangini shows that he can improve this team then i will be looking at the final few games, Our crop of talent can only perhaps beat the lions, raiders and chiefs and failure to do so is all the indication we need than Mangini was a bad hire.

 

actually, don't underestimate the influence a devoted yet frustrated fan base can have... I'd think that even Lerner is detecting the fact that long time fans are finding it just too torturous to buy tickets and even watch on TV (if the games aren't blacked out)

 

Advertisers certainly will take note of that... typically one gets a boost out of a new coaching hire. In the case of Mangini the team has lost ground with fans and advertisers. That reason alone might be enough to prompt a move.

 

And last but certainly not least, the NFL - and the other NFL Owners - are NOT well served by having a perpetually weak team in Cleveland. There's just too much football history here to just write off the team because an incompetant owner has determined that the best available coaches are the ones most recently fired.

 

I'd have to think that Lerner runs the risk of being a victim of a "Code Red" the next time the owners get together for their annual meeting given the decisions he's made and abdicated to unqualified people.

 

Any or all of that could force a change for the better.

[hoorta]

actually, don't underestimate the influence a devoted yet frustrated fan base can have... I'd think that even Lerner is detecting the fact that long time fans are finding it just too torturous to buy tickets and even watch on TV (if the games aren't blacked out)

 

Advertisers certainly will take note of that... typically one gets a boost out of a new coaching hire. In the case of Mangini the team has lost ground with fans and advertisers. That reason alone might be enough to prompt a move.

 

And last but certainly not least, the NFL - and the other NFL Owners - are NOT well served by having a perpetually weak team in Cleveland. There's just too much football history here to just write off the team because an incompetant owner has determined that the best available coaches are the ones most recently fired.

 

I'd have to think that Lerner runs the risk of being a victim of a "Code Red" the next time the owners get together for their annual meeting given the decisions he's made and abdicated to unqualified people.

 

Any or all of that could force a change for the better.

 

I would hope Lerner's aware he's on the verge of losing the long term hardcore fan base. A few more ugly blowouts and and say a 2-14 record this year will do the trick. What the Browns do against the Bears might have an influence on what Randy decides to do. Cleveland gets destroyed by a POed team that got embarrassed by the Bengals last week might force his hand. If he doesn't make the change then, Mangooni is safe until the end of the year. If the Browns start showing some progress, EM even gets one more season.

 

Every Jets fan I've talked to has told me hiring Mangini was a big mistake, I'm starting to believe they knew what they were talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

[ballpeen]

So we can ruin next year as well? and make a bunch of bad draft picks which ruin several seasons? Fire him NOW. He isn't liked by players and they wont produce for him. Not liked nationally either, and apparently by the refs, so he'll get the short end on close calls and things of that nature. He is a real world Charlie Brown.

 

Ruin next season from what?? No matter who we have I doubt a Superbowl win is in the cards.

 

You make a lot of assumptions about making bad draft choices....

 

As for being liked...who cares? Many good coaches aren't liked by the players, and who really cares what some goofy writer thinks?

 

[kshutchins]

Daboll was just next in line...and Mangini wanted to keep rollin with his jets flow as much as possible...he really felt and may have been right that they were close...so why not bring as many people in that know what i do and how i do it?..kind of makes sense..the biggest issue is Bill Callahan fell through..i feel that s the biggest blow of the offseason...his OL smarts and experience would have this team much further along than it is with Daboll...he fell through Marty Jr was never available..so the next guy in line was daboll as he was the QB coach...and knew the system..

 

I am happy with Ryan...I think he brings passion and scheme...although the talent level is low and its showing more know where he problem areas are than ever before...but having a rookie on th OC side is not a smart move IMO....

 

when baltimore retooled last year they hired cam cameron...one of the best OCs in the game..but everyone was too busy laughing at his head coaching record to remeber where he fits best in a staff...look at baltimores offense the last 2 years with him...

 

we need a STUD OC...not a newbie..not a first time play caller...one that knows the talent he needs to make his O go...

 

The thing I'm not clear on is how much Mangini is directing the offense. Is Daboll the problem or is it Mangini, or both? To what extent is the considerable lack of talent affecting the performance of the team? These are issues the owner needs to sort out and I hope Kosar and others can help Lerner get to the bottom of the situation.

 

BTW, I like Ryan too and would keep him on. I want to see what he does as talent improves.