Its not the coaching..

[mopaji]

>> Joe thomas and Cribbs talent are wasted in this team too ... but that dont we trade them away for draft picks. We need to build around talent and KW2 could catch the ball. how many WR's/TE's are catching the balls now ?

 

I know it was a rhetorical question but, a TE is easier to play without than a LT. And Cribbs is one in a million type of guy and player. Neither are expendable.

 

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

This team is talentless. Thomas, Stienbach, Mack, Rogers, Cribbs. Outside of that, we not only have no talent, we don't have many NFL caliber players at all.

 

Outside of those 5 guys, not ONE player beat their guy on a single play yesterday. We are totally outmatched by every team in the league outside of Oakland and maybe KC. I don't know how Mangini is gonna do it this off-season but he is going to have to replace 30-40 players in a hurry. This team is a joke. Davis, Savage, RAC....F-YOU!!!

 

There is just no way you can scheme, coach, or gameplan with these players. You cannot ask them to do anything above fundamental football and expect any success. They are bad, really bad. It has got to be embarresing for the coaches knowing that each week another team is watching film on us getting prepared and seeing everything this team doesn't have.

 

We can't blame the coaches anymore. If you watch these players they are just getting beat on a down-by-down basis. Each and every one of them. Wimbley had Grant wrapped up with both arms and Grant just slipped out like he was coated in vaseline. How in the hell, at this level, do you let that happen? That is a microcosm of what this team doesn't do. Wright got punked again on TV. How many players do you think get punked every week like that guy does and have a job still? Is that coaching? Nope, is that scheme? Nope. Is that gameplan? Nope. That is what it looks like when you put bad players on the field in this league. Its a goddamned joke. I like DA but he looked like crap yesterday. He came out 5/5 and guys were catching it and then, he started forcing balls and leading defenders to his target before throwing it. That is not a coaching issue, they don't coach him to do that, thats not part of the gameplan, that is just a dumb QB.

 

My friend is a 10th grade English teacher and she said something once that applies here. She said that by the time students get to her they are way behind where they should be. So she has to go back and re-teach 7th grade material before she can even start the 10th grade material. I think that is where this team is right now. The difference is, this is the NFL and so you don't get time to coach up crappy players who are 2-5 years in the league, you just release them. And a lot of guys need to be gone.

 

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

This team has had the talent. It has had the draft picks. It has had every opportunity to turn this ship around. I lay the blame on the coaching staffs that have been here and their lack of forsight, ability to get players to step up (how many go to other teams and do well?) and a lack of knowledge in the head coach position. I thought that had changed with Mangini since he was the first coach of the browns in decades to have any experience, but I was way wrong. Mangini is almost worse than any coach you have had. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but Mangini created your QB problem. All he had to do was make a decision and go with one QB, stick with him and give him the team and the coaches respect. He never did that with either QB and this only tore up the little bit of team chemistry you had going and has the QB constantly looking over his shoulder. Not to mention the fact that he traded away some of the best talent on the team.

[Squintz]

Yeah, that'd be like Ted Marchibroda taking on an assistant who was a center at Wesleyan University in Connecticut... Wesleyan! Gooo Cardinals!! What the hell does that have to do with anything? Because a guy went to a small school he can't be a football coach?

 

-jj

 

Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.

 

I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?

 

I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.

 

He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...

 

 

My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.

[BrownIndian]

I think a lot of you people are delusional who think Gruden or Shanahan or Cowher were lining up to take this job or will line up to take this job if Mangini gets shit-canned.

 

The roster was a joke. And Cleveland is not exactly the most desirable NFL city to set up shop. Any three of those guys can sit in studio jobs until the perfect situation comes around. Like Carolina (Cowher) or Jacksonville (Gruden). Shanahan is getting paid a ton NOT to coach! He has a tremendous ego, but he's also smart enough to realize he's got a clearer path in Washington in a city more suitable to his tastes.

 

Nobody who has options is going to select THIS Job.

 

It was Mangini or a first-time head coach who wasn't a hot candidate (like Crennel) or a college guy. And we aren't talking Urban Meyer.

 

Why do we need only Gruden or Shanahan or Cowher ? How many head coaching jobs are there in the NFL ? Trust me we are not as bad as we assume ourselves to be. And many will queue up for the jobs. We just need to be patient enough to interview ALL OF THEM before making a decision.

[BrownIndian]

My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.

 

There is no tree .... HE is a lone guy who managed to achieve success by putting his system in place and that is something no body else has succeeded in. The one man who seems to have succeed as his pupil Josh McDaniels has nothing in common with BB. HE gets excited, shows passion and does not get overly secretive.

[DawgTracker]

Still believe it is talent despite some good arguments.

 

If you have 4th and 1 what play can you call and KNOW that the offensive line will create a hole to get that yard? There is no play because the O line cannot knock people off the line of scrimmage. Lack of talent

 

If you have 3rd and 10 what passing play are you going to call and KNOW that you will pick it up? There isn't one because the receivers do not get open dependably and the QBs may not get them the ball. Lack of talent at QB and experience (I hope) in the case of wide receivers

 

If you have 3rd and 5 what play do you run and have a high percentage chance of obtaining that first down? There isn't one Lack of talent

 

Who can you throw the ball to and know that he will come up with the reception if you get the ball close? Nobody Lack of Talent and experience

 

 

On defense players are in position to make plays and they are missing tackles after receptions. Our defensive backs (CBs and Safeties) lack the physical ability or toughness to make tackles on running backs and anyone else except a QB. Lack of talent and toughness

 

We do not get dependable pressure on the QB although there has been significant improvement this year Lack of talent but we have improved

 

Tackling by linebackers is a problem. They are often in position to make plays and simply cannot make the tackle or make it far down field. Lack of talent Coaching could be partly responsible for them making tackles too far down field

 

If the players cannot execute the simple fundamentals of blocking (knocking their guy off the ball), passing, catching, tackling you don't have much chance. We need football players that absolutely hate to lose and coaches that absolutely hate to lose. I know mangini hates to lose and if any of his assistants don't feel the same way they will be canned.

[Jason J]

Fair enough. But my point isn't that he's from a small school, it's that he doesn't belong in the position he is in. And comparing Manini to Marchibroda is ludicrous.

 

I have a beef with this tool in particular because I sat in front of the home coaches box yesterday and had enough by the beginning of the 4th quarter. So I turned around and laid into the coaches box. From the play calling to the lack of preparedness to the unemotional and uninspired play, it is a reflection of the coaches. Correct me if you think differently, but as I vented I fully expected the coaches box to maintain their focus on the game and not look down at me. But this coach decides to look down with a full faced smile and tilt his head from side to side like a clown. Shouldn't he be more interested in the game than me?

 

I may have been voistrous, but never vulgar. If I had been security would have kicked my butt out. Instead, everyone in the section was cheering along with me. Jim Donovan gave me a thumbs-up and Diek mentioned my voistrous displeasure in the radio broadcast. As I exited security guards and fans alike were giving me high-fives because they're all as fed up as I am.

 

He is supposed to be a coach. As well as another 'coach' in the third row of their box who scratched his head like a monkey as he looked down to me. I couldn't find him on the asst coaches tab so he might just be a coffee-getter so I'll let him go. But the other guy was sitting up front with headset on and all and he's paying attention to me? Come on - he SHOULD have more important things to pay attention to. Like his players and how to get the most out of them...

 

 

My true fear is that the Belichek tree is thinning and Mangini can only scrape up what remnants are left to piece together a staff. There are very few with decent credentials.

 

In fairness, I wasn't comparing Marchibroda to Mangini. I was comparing Bill Belichik to Andy Dickerson... which is twice as preposterous. My point being coaches come from all over. And great players rarely make great coaches. It's just a different skill set.

 

And, should they be more concerned about other things? Probably. But when you're getting your ass handed to you, you were probably a welcome diversion. I've been in that box before (well, not that box, but the coaching box). When you're getting mauled like that, it's all you can do to maintain your sanity. A bit of levity is probably a good thing. At least they weren't flinging themselves out the windows or punching each other. But that kind of thing usually only happens when the coordinators are upstairs.

 

The Browns have one of those situations where the OC and DC are on the sideline and the assistants are upstairs. Some guys like it the other way. In the Browns case they've got a couple of special assistants, I'm sure, and a few pro personnel people. And that's probably about it. They run the field like an officiating crew, each guy with a different set of responsibilities usually by position or area. They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.

 

Regardless, as far as they're concerned, you have no idea what you're talking about. Actually, they don't even hear what you're saying. Coaches are funny that way. They don't take criticism from non-coaches. They just sort of block it out. I don't say that for effect. They're really not hearing your words. They just know that there's a crazy guy yelling at them. It's the same thing you would do if someone stood outside your office window yelling about what a lousy job you were doing. You could easily make faces out the window and still do your job... probably.

 

Coaching is a job. Fans don't always get that. The fans live their lives, build up their own stresses and get all wound up until Sunday afternoon, and go crazy for their team. For the guys in the booth, this is the last 3 hours of a 70 or 80 hour work week. To them football is a process, not an event. Fans have this opinion that coaches should be these hyper-intense stress factories squeezing bits of coal into diamonds on every 3rd and 4, when actually it's a lot more systematic than that... especially among low level assistants, scouts, and spotters. Let's be realistic here... they play a game for a living. They basically move playing pieces around a board for a few hours every Sunday... after practicing it over and over again all week. It's like being a professional Risk player. There's just not nearly as much stress in the coaching booth as there is in the stands. And when you're getting beaten like a drum there's even less. If a guy breaks focus in a 31-3 game, I'm pretty sure it won't change the outcome. If he bothered to acknowledge you in a 27-24 game, I'd be surprised.

 

That's not to say that your opinion's not valid. In fact, I probably agree with you in many respects. But, the coaches assume anyone addressing them about football who isn't wearing a snappy polo with team colors on it is among the 99% of fans who hasn't a clue what goes into putting a prepared football team on the field... especially if they're yelling it through a window. Now, in fairness... you don't have to spend 80 hours a week studying tape to go 1-6 and be lose by 3 touchdowns every week. You could take Wednesday and Thursday off every week and do that. It's the old, "You don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Take a look at my cousin: he's broke, don't do shit."

 

But even so, the fact that they engaged you - albeit mockingly - says nothing to me about them as a person or as a coach.

 

And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.

 

 

-jj

 

 

 

[kshutchins]

And to your point of 'scraping up' what's left of the Belichick coaches. There are always new coaches. And you don't really want everyone to have a homogeneous background. So I wouldn't be too worried about that.

-jj

 

Geez. I wish I could remember the guys name... he wasn't a head coach but wound up as an assistant and was, at least once, considered for a head coaching position. Bill Walsh apparently thought he was one of few people who really grasped the intricacies of the West Coast offense. The guy, a lawyer, contacted somebody with the team (SF 49ers) because he'd once played football, and asked if they could use somebody to play catch with the QBs. He did it on a lark. To his surprise, they found something for him to do. Later, they promoted him to QB coach. He was constantly surprised that they kept giving him jobs, and was fully prepared to go back to a law practice. He just kept moving on up the coaching ladder. I heard this story, in great detail, from the lawyer/coach's best friend.

 

My point? I agree, there are always new coaches. Furthermore, they can come from anywhere.

 

[Squintz]

They are information retrievers not game-planners or decision-makers. So, your rant while it may have some substance, is misdirected. It be like running into a Chevrolet dealership and berating the guy because your GM stock is in the tank. He doesn't have anything to do with it. He just works there.

 

Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.

 

But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.

 

This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.

 

Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset

 

It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.

 

[Sez.EJ]

i get what you're saying and i agree with you to some extent. however you must look at how those players got here to begin with and THAT is the coaches fault. it is also the coach's fault that they call stupid plays that don't work.

At a certain point..it's not the playcalling it's the execution of that play.. that's the players.

[Jason J]

Good points, all. The truth about the rant wasn't necessarily at them, it was more about the lack of focus and uninspired play on the field. I know these guys in the booth aren't decision makers and probably know how to chart things better than actually coach.

 

But as a fan there are only two areas of the stadium where you can take out frustrations and direct them at those running the team: Sections 309-310 (where I was) in front of the home coaches box and the radio broadcast crew or in sections 125-127 - directly in front of Lerner's loge.

 

This is why I directed my attention there, and sometimes we as fans need to show more disdain and ferver while at the stadium. We need to show the team and the organization.....and LERNER that what they are doing is unacceptable. Period.

 

Impact can be made as tonight on the Point After show when Donovan and Dieken made specific mention of my disdain and displeasure as I ranted right in front of their booth. They made points that the fans are growing increasingly upset

 

It's time to stand up and stand against this ownership regime.

 

 

I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.

 

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

 

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

 

-jj

[hammertime]

I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.

 

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

 

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

 

-jj

 

 

Have you changed your stance on the direction the team is heading?

[Solon16]

I'm all for passion. The problem is, the only way to impact the owner is to stop showing up. That'll do it. Then stop buying tickets in the offseason. But most fans aren't willing to do that. It speaks highly of Cleveland fans, actually.

 

Sadly, when you're in a $65 seat, with a $9 beer in your hand, it's hard to tell the owner that he's doing a lousy job. His job is to get you in that seat, and to buy that beer. And he did.

 

It's a weird place to be. If you don't show up, they threaten to move the team, if you do show up you encourage this level of failure. It's really a no win situation.

 

-jj

tHAT'S WHY YOU ORGANIZE AND DO IT FOR 1 QUARTER OF THE NEXT HOME GAME....ONE QTR WILL STILL GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE....i'D ACTUALLY ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO SEE TWO TEAMS PLAYING IN AN EMPTY STADIUM FOR A QTR...WE DEFINETLY MAKE THE NEWS! sry bout the caps

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

 

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

[Solon16]

Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

 

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

 

agree 1000% but you missed the real reason...we can't fuking draft our way out of a wet paper bag, let alone out of the basement of the afc north

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

Well I don't think you guys have had great drafts by any means but they have not been piss poor either. What I really think is that the coaching staff needs to be able to evaluate the players they are drafting for the type of defense they have in mind, what they want to do on offense, and stop trying to create a team that will compete 3 years down the line and worry about today. You work out your long term problems after the season is done. That is my opinion anyway.

I still think your O-line should have been one of the best in the league. Your defense I saw it's weakness coming and I'm not sure what your coach was doing.

 

Here is the bottom line and I will stop beating the dead horse. Mangini is feeling the pressure and let his ego get in the way before the season even started. He is now feeling it even more with a rookie coach in Denver from the same coaching tree who is succeeding and he is floundering. I don't really see his vision and what he is trying to achieve with the decisons he is making. The only thing that makes sense is that they want to keep Quinn from making his $ and trading him and starting over again.

 

The problem with that? It's not very often that a rookie QB comes into the league ready to go. It's damn rare. He should have been looking at every free agent QB available and making every attempt he could to pick them up if he did not have confidence in either of these two. I think he should still pick up a Vet that is a second string QB or free agent at the end of the season and not pick a top draft pick QB in the first round. Work on the defense, work on the O-line AGAIN, and work on the contracts of your best players instead of letting them walk. First on the list should be Cribbs. If you guys let him go I hope more than any player the STEELERS pick him up. The browns have been almost criminal with their players.

[Chicopee John]

An honest question?

 

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

 

Anybody??

[Fan Of STEEL 1]

An honest question?

 

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

 

Anybody??

 

 

That is a great question. Especially if you factor in that the coach created a QB controversy, traded away some of the best talent on the team for pennies on the dollar, tore up any team cheistry that existed, and continues to play one of the worst QBs in the league.

[Frenchie]

As with all organizations, if there is a need for turnaround, you have to start at the top and work your way down. Lerner is a major issue in that this new franchise has made and repeated mistakes in appointing President's, GM's and Head coaches. What does it take to get through to him that until we get that part right, we will never restore our image as a successful team. When Crennel/Savage did not work, the replacements needed to be sure-bets, proven commodities, and not more risky alternatives such as Mangini. I would rather have appointed interim managers than taken this kind of risk.

 

From there, come the coaches/scouts and the dedication to designing a team that will be competitve in our environment. That means that draft choices focus on the line of scrimmage, and linebackers, and that a fast-truck like Peterson cannot be bypassed.

 

We are making elementary mistakes and we keep on making them. Lerner, please fire the coach now and sell the team to someone smart enough to pass high school.

[mopaji]

Bad owner and bad coaching...we could win with this talent if we had a real offensive coordinator that adjusts the offensive playbook to fit the personel we have instead of forcing the players into a high school football gamebook that every defense can readily deal with....

 

 

Ordinarily this makes a ton of sense however, in our case you can't really run more than a High School system. These players are really bad and it has become glaringly clear. There is just NO WAY we can believe these NFL coaches really don't know how to call or plan for a game. It is far more likely that they have ZERO talent to work with. Think of it this way, you have Brandon Jacobs where do you run him? Outside? Nope. INSIDE because that's where you can best utilize his strengths. Now think of our team who has ZERO talent and zero strengths, you're not going to ask them to do something they just cannot do. And with our players, that is a lot more than what they can do. Hence, you get a High School gameplan and play calls.

 

And so to my point. This team is talentless. Each one of them gets beat on every down by whoever is lined up across from them. We keep hearing these defeated players say "we work really hard it just aint coming together yet". When I hear those things, after I feel kinda bad for them I realize what they are really saying. "We try really hard, we believe in our ability but we just kinda suck at our jobs". For anybody out there wondering what it would look like if the best college team in the nation played an NFL team, watch the Browns. Its the same thing. A bunch of undeveloped young players who don't have the luxery of unlearning bad habits and developing over the next 2 years. This team needs to be purged.

[mopaji]

An honest question?

 

Why was it 'the coaching' last year but not this year?

 

Anybody??

 

 

I think most people wanted both the coach and GM out of here. RAC because he handled losing like he just dropped a nickle down a sewer drain. "Oh shucks" and he mis-managed games on numerous occasions all the while winning 4 games with an arguably better team than 2007. And Savage because all of his choices proved to be really really bad.

 

This year is different because what little talent we had coming in...

 

Thomas - He can only play LT

Edwards - Sucked here and was leaving next year anyway

Winslow - The only guy with any trade value so we would have more than 4 picks...

 

....is either gone or is a LT. Mangini brought in some pretty average players himself but he had to stop the bleeding somewhere and these vets are not long-term solutions. Plus, RAC and Savage were no better off after 3 years on the job and Mangini and Kokinis are only just beginning their first year. We may be able to say they suck in 2 years, but one thing will never change. This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.

[Chicopee John]

This team is talentless right now, in 2009, and there isn't much a coach can do with a limited amount of draft picks, no money, and one offseason.

 

Chris Palmer should never have been fired. He won some games with absolutely nothing. He beat Pittspuke too!

 

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Talent my assss. The browns have had the top picks for over a decade. It has been poor

coaching, poor insight, poor ability to get the most out of your players, and some stupidity from the owner. The browns should have been out of the basement long ago.

 

As far as the fans not showing up and leaving the stands empty, that would be the best. But it is not ever going to happen in my opinion. I'd love that to happen to the Pirates for even a game. I've been talking about it for years. In our towns we love our sports and there will always be people that are willing to go to the games no matter what.

 

This is actually the problem, when the highest paid player on the team is your first round pick year after year it eliminates money to spend on building a team instead of on a first round pick. Then you add in if you miss on a pick, then your stuck paying an unproductive player and it sets you back even further. This past draft Mangini traded back and picked up a solid center, saving alot of money, and adding alot of depth, all for one pick. So he addressed the center position for hopefully years to come and can still add FA with the money you saved to address other positions instead of drafting 1 player in the top 5, and spend all that money on a player that might not even contribute.

[Jason J]

tHAT'S WHY YOU ORGANIZE AND DO IT FOR 1 QUARTER OF THE NEXT HOME GAME....ONE QTR WILL STILL GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE....i'D ACTUALLY ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO SEE TWO TEAMS PLAYING IN AN EMPTY STADIUM FOR A QTR...WE DEFINETLY MAKE THE NEWS! sry bout the caps

 

I think they pretty much did that on Sunday. By the middle of the 3rd quarter you could've thrown a hand grenade almost anywhere in the upper deck and not harmed a soul.

 

-jj

[Jason J]

Have you changed your stance on the direction the team is heading?

 

If by that you mean, do i still think the Browns will limp into the bye week, and win a handful of games in the second half? Yeah. They probably will. They'll win a few near the end. Anderson will still have one of those temptation games - Temptation in the AA sense - you know the kind where he hits everything in site, goes 21 for 30, 355 and 4 touchdowns, and everyone goes "See, they finally let him cut it loose." You know how it goes.

 

Then he'll go back to being Barney Fife with a bazooka.

 

They'll win another ugly ugly one too, I'd imagine... probaly 9-6 or something, couple of nip/tuckers with the likes of Detroit and Kansas City and there you go. You're 5-11 and picking fifth again.

 

No, I'm still about the same.

 

 

-jj

[hammertime]

If by that you mean, do i still think the Browns will limp into the bye week, and win a handful of games in the second half? Yeah. They probably will. They'll win a few near the end. Anderson will still have one of those temptation games - Temptation in the AA sense - you know the kind where he hits everything in site, goes 21 for 30, 355 and 4 touchdowns, and everyone goes "See, they finally let him cut it loose." You know how it goes.

 

Then he'll go back to being Barney Fife with a bazooka.

 

They'll win another ugly ugly one too, I'd imagine... probaly 9-6 or something, couple of nip/tuckers with the likes of Detroit and Kansas City and there you go. You're 5-11 and picking fifth again.

 

No, I'm still about the same.

 

 

-jj

 

I'm not challenging your views on this, but you really beleive DA can throw for 4 touchdowns and over 300 yards for one game or the rest of the season?

[Mark O]

I think he will have that game at some point as well. I bet it happens against sd on December 6th. Another reason to be in town that day.

[Solon16]

This is actually the problem, when the highest paid player on the team is your first round pick year after year it eliminates money to spend on building a team instead of on a first round pick. Then you add in if you miss on a pick, then your stuck paying an unproductive player and it sets you back even further. This past draft Mangini traded back and picked up a solid center, saving alot of money, and adding alot of depth, all for one pick. So he addressed the center position for hopefully years to come and can still add FA with the money you saved to address other positions instead of drafting 1 player in the top 5, and spend all that money on a player that might not even contribute.

when the highest paid player on the team is your first round pick year after year it eliminates money to spend on building a team instead of on a first round pick. Then you add in if you miss on a pick, then your stuck paying an unproductive player and it sets you back even further."

 

His point was we miss on our draft picks and can't coach them well...Adrian Peterson makes alot of money and he's worth it...JT makes alot of Money and he;s worth it....as to the rest of our #1's...Horrific! Mack better be a HOF for me to justify taking a center in the first round!

[Jason J]

I'm not challenging your views on this, but you really beleive DA can throw for 4 touchdowns and over 300 yards for one game or the rest of the season?

 

Sure. Derek Anderson can get as hot as any quarterback in football. When you've got an arm like that, it snaps into place once in a while and you get some fireworks. He's just never been able to keep it consistently.

 

More to the point, Derek Anderson's highs are very high. He's just never been able to mitigate his lows. On any given Sunday, if he gets it going, Derek Anderson can out duel any quarterback in football. The problem with Derek has always been... that a bad day is a really bad day. When Peyton Manning has a bad day he goes 14 for 29 for 162 a TD and a pick. When Derek goes bad, he goes 9 for 35 for 85 yards and 3 picks.

 

It's just his game.

 

Some argue that it's a function of big quarterbacks... that they're more prone to mechanical breakdowns. It's hard saying. I know this, when he starts getting his feet going the wrong way, and starts arming the ball, people start dropping passes. Should they catch them? Probably. But you'll see a lot of guys that look handcuffed by his throws. And I can't tell you why.

 

What's worse is he's got a lot of guys dropping balls that are on time and on target (or at least near-enough on target). And that's hard on the psyche. Derek's a confidence quarterback. And when he's unsure, he's inaccurate. And Derek's inaccurate he's in-f'ing-accurate.

 

But, yeah... I think he will have a game or two.

 

-jj

 

 

[ATENEARS]

Chris Palmer should never have been fired. He won some games with absolutely nothing. He beat Pittspuke too!

 

I will still to this day contest that Chris Palmer did some great coaching that first year. He was on pace with linking this team/franchise to it's roots and made sure of it. Attending a training camp was special; a player would drop a pass in a WR drill and there he was not ten feet from the guy, coaching, instructing and sometimes barking (if it was repeatitive), what seemed like seconds later on the far field, someone would muff a punt and there he was again, ten feet from the kid, coaching, instructing and sometimes barking. He knew where to be, was in place at the hot spots and at the right times and had the camps under control.

 

The next season, it was almost the opposite. He was dialed back, seemed to have a lot of authority taken from him. Perhaps players being inserted that he didn't want, guys doing things wrong that he couldn't connect with ... and with that Carmen Policy, Dwight Clark and Al Lerner were more present on the field.

 

It was an ugly transition. I went from learning a lot of coaching techniques from Palmer to feeling sorry for him in a matter of months.