Support for Mangini

[BrownIndian]

What i see in Mangini is a man who is immature for his job. Perhaps he got propelled too quickly, saw success too quickly and failure also too quickly and he is not having enough time to grasp the entire situation - to understand his mistakes and to realize how to solve them. He needs more jobs as a coordinator before getting the head coach gig.

[ATENEARS]

I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.

 

What would be YOUR reason for playing Quinn? Or, would you just not play him?

 

The QB 'debacle' has been going on here for three years with the same cast (ten years with similar cast). The only thing that has been a debacle is that none of these clowns seized the moment when given an opportunity.

 

Would a great QB not even look up-field to throw a forward pass, or throw off-target, throw too early, throw too late, time and time again?

 

Why exactly would Quinn deserve playing time other than to receive by some sort of default. It could be a default in that the other guy stunk up the joint, or by default since he was drafted so high, but never-the-less, it's the ONLY reason to play the third year rookie.

[mopaji]

You have to be pleased with the results of this poll. I'm thinking it surprised you?

 

 

Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.

[Earl34]

I think Quinn is getting a chance for two reasons.

 

1) He hitched his horse to DA and it was catastrophic. Quinn wasn't moving the team and DA evolved into something worse. At this point, you can't defend DA anymore.

2) If Mangini is back or someone else is calling the shots, you really need to remove the "but he never got a chance" argument from the Quinn equation.

 

My favorite analyst is Pat Kirwan and when asked directly, PK doesn't feel like the QB of the future is currently on the roster. My opinion is the same.

 

 

[mopaji]

I don't mind a dry, disciplanarian coach (although upbeat coaches are more fun to watch - the players wouldn't need showers with cowher spitting on the sidelines). Mangini seems to bring a total lack of integrity. I have to look no further than the quarterback debacle to determine that. There is no doubt in my mind that the only reason he is playing Quinn is not because he wants to, but he was told to or he thinks he can save face that way.

 

 

Why exactly would Quinn deserve playing time other than to receive by some sort of default. It could be a default in that the other guy stunk up the joint, or by default since he was drafted so high, but never-the-less, it's the ONLY reason to play the third year rookie.

 

 

I don't think Brady has done much to win the job as much as DA has just been aweful and Brady has been a good sport. Because of that, I don't think any coach can justify keeping him on the bench when the guy in front of him has mounted 1 win and terrible numbers; regardless of the circumstances. Brady's ability isn't why he 's getting the nod, its a matter of principle and "integrity" at this point. Plus, we'll know how aggressive we need to be in the off-season as far as persuing a QB goes.

[Chip Banks]

If we get Holmgren in and he can entice Chucky Gruden to coach the Browns, I sure won't shed a tear to see Mangini go.

 

 

What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?

 

THE GOOD

1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8

1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8

2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4

2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE

 

2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)

2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)

2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)

2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)

2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)

2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)

 

After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:

 

"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.

 

The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."

 

Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Marvin Lewis was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.

[hoorta]

What's the love for Gruden? That people recognize his name?

 

THE GOOD

1998 Oakland Raiders 8 8

1999 Oakland Raiders 8 8

2000 Oakland Raiders 12 4

2001 Oakland Raiders 10 6

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 12 4 Super Bowl Champions

 

______________________________________________________________________

 

THE LESS-THAN-MEDIOCRE

 

2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)

2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)

2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)

2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)

2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)

2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)

 

After winning a SB with Tony Dungy's defense, offensive mastermind "Chucky" has a losing record. Over the last three years, his record was WORSE than Mangini's!! The season-end collapse last year was monumental:

 

"With Garcia back as the starter for week 6, the Buccaneers went 6-1 over the next 7 games. At the end of November, Tampa Bay found themselves in first place in the NFC South. They tied a franchise best start of 9-3, were undefeated at home (6-0), and controlled their own destiny for a first-round bye in the playoffs.

 

The month of December, however, saw the Buccaneers season collapse. A humiliating loss on Monday Night Football against Carolina took away their hopes of a division title. Meanwhile, longtime defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin announced he was leaving to join his son Lane at Tennessee. The defense began to struggle mightily, especially against the run. An overtime loss at Atlanta, followed by two home losses, dropped the Bucs to 9-7, and out of the playoffs. Less than three weeks later, head coach Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen were fired."

Remember, Gruden was an offensive guy, but his offenses were seldom prolific. Kiffin was to him what Belichick was to Parcells and Mike Nolan was to Brian Billick. Add this to the equation -- "Chucky" never developed a QB. Since 2003 his offenses were in the bottom 1/3 of the league 4 out of 5 years.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Gruden get a job with an NFL team. But only to save me from having to listen to his totally affected "tough guy" over-articulation on MNF. I just don't want it to be the Browns.

 

Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.

 

Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.

 

[mopaji]

Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.

 

Ohio guy, Super Bowl winner. Offenses sucked? bottom third? Sure beats dead last. I saw Garcia- yeah, we saw how great a qb he is. Fans would be doing cartwheels if the Browns sniffed 9-7 next year.

 

I would prefer to go 4-12 again if it means we're building a long-term contender. I'm sorry but 9-7 means nothing to me if its followed by a losing record. Take the time, build it right, and lets have a real franchise in Cleveland again.

[Chip Banks]

Funny how the RED part describes Mangini's last year with the Jets too.

 

Yeah . . . so what exactly is your point? Why would you want to replace Mangini with a guy who's had no more recent success and, for the last 5 years, hasn't been able to field an above average offense when that is supposed to be his forte. You notice two of the last five years Gruden's teams WERE dead last?

 

Two points on Garcia: 1) he was there because Chuckie can't/will not develop a young QB; and 2) Dude, did you miss that Garcia was a Pro Bowl QB after leaving the Browns? Here's his passer rating for the last three years: 2008 90.4 2007 95 2006 96. We'd do back flips if Quinn approached that level of QB play. Hell, we might be 9-7.

 

Brian Griese, who Chucky benched Garcia for after one bad game (sound familiar) had a 69 passer rating last year. With the addition of Winslow, the Bucs have won one game this year without Garcia. I'm thinking he wasn't Chuckie's problem in TB. The guy's like 90 years old. He gave Gruden more than anyone could have expected in TB. Ironically, all that TB had going for it last year was two guys Butch Davis left on his roster and Opie cast off -- Garcia and Bryant. I think you are directing your anger at the wrong person. Look at the crap roster Mangini inherited and then go back and trace Opie's moves as GM.

 

Other than Thomas Opie did not draft one OL that plays anywhere in the NFL. After 5 drafts with the 3-4 in mind, we don't have the the personnel to run a 3-4 . . . I could go on for another 70 lines or so. People really expected that to be fixed in ONE OFFSEASON? An offseason where, coming in, the Browns had only 4 picks?

 

Did you stick your head in a hole in 2004 and just now come up for air? That would explain being hot for Gruden and saying that Garcia sucked.

[EdwardG]

Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.

 

This team needs to build a winning organization. It needs a front office. Is Mangini the one to really build that? I don't think so. His hand-picked GM is gone already. It's pretty clear that he's alienated the team. While there's few players on this team whose performance gives them any business complaining, Lewis certainly included, I just think in general it's bad ot have a situation like this.