Peter King on the Browns

[DawgTracker]

Sorry, JMO, but I could care less what anyone in the media including Peter King has to say about Mangini, and the possibility of Mangini making them all sick to their stomachs by making it happen here only will make it that much better.

 

I agree with this. I have liked Mangini's approach from day 1. Add a few studs onto this team and it will look much better. Dabol has really done a nice job since the bye week. Part of this team's future identity is a team that will run the ball down your throats if you dare them to. I think some of that is the reason for run, run, pass at times.

 

[Flugel]

Honestly i thought mankok took way to long to deal with edwards they did it right with smith and winslow but this team still has to many non factor underachievers on both sides of the ball ,many of them "mangini guys" i would like to see mangini get a chance to right the ship ,but he needs to realize that he may need to adjust some things offensively and lose daboll in "the process"...i like the WCO holmgren would bring and many of the players we have would be suited to it as well..

 

In fairness, it's tough to blame our Head Coach over the NY Giants' inability to decide whether they felt Edwards was worth it or not. Therefore, Edwards would end up going to the most desperate passing game east of Cleveland but also in the media capital of NY. Perhaps the reason WHY the Giants labored while the Jets knee-jerked is that in spite of adding Edwards to a 3-1 team, they gave up 2 draft picks and 2 players that can rotate in wioth our starting lineup. The ONLY question I have is did the NY air stop Braylon from dropping footballs? Hail no! It's not like people were lining up with inquiries about the disinterested WR.

 

I know a TON of people keep defaulting to ALL our offensive problems are because of the OC. That said, none of them seem to understand we have 9 new starters in this offense today. Many are inexperienced. But if it makes ANYONE feel better Jon Gruden knows the West Coast Offense and he was so wonderful with it he didn't need any talent to KEEP his job in Tampa Bay. Oooop, he got fired. Is this where we give him the excuses we CAN'T give a rokie OC here?

 

Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it. On the flip-side - did anyone see the fellers scoirn TDs for Tampa on SB Sunday? 4 of them came from Monte Kiffen's defense not to be confused with Gruden's West Coast offense.

 

To perfect the West Coast, it sure helps to have Jerry Rice, Joe Montana/Steve Young, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman, Brent Jones, and the other stud they had playing. Let's stop pretending Quinn and DA were the equivalent to the perfect WCO QBs SF had. Jamal wasn't exactly Roger Craig out of the backfield and FBs that consistently drop passes won't ever be confused with Tom Rathman. In the end, it always better to play chess with more than just pawns. RECENT weeks in Cleveland show me we look better Evan Moore at TE, Cribbs rushing the football more and Jennings too for that matter. If our offense is turning the ball over alot less frequently in the last 3 weeks and there's FAR less 1st and 15s or 1st and 20s - doesn't that refelect IMPROVED coaching? It seems like in ALL areas we CAN be better in - we ARE better in. That's progress IMO.

 

If a Head Coaching change is inevitable (as much as I'd had more incontinuity), I'd prefer Steve Marriucci over Gruden. Gruden is the most OVERRATED Head Coach I've ever seen. Nobody played for his ass last year and most his team thought he was a jerk. In Tampa they won with a lights out defense he INHERITED so by the time that team became all his - we were coin flipping them for the Joe Thomas Sweepstakes. They're still feeling the wrath of Gruden's choices as we speak.

- Tom F. (Keep Mangini and add the X-factors he needs to be successful)

[Alo]

Before anyone corrects me about TB winning a Superbowl with him - how come Oakland couldn't MAKE a Superbowl until the very 1st season Gruden left for Tampa Bay? Seems like they couldn't get there with this West Coast but made it the millisecond they deep 6'd it.

Gruden took over a Raiders team that had gone 4-12 the previous year. He immediately coached them up to an 8-8 season, then made it to the AFC Championship Game during his third year.

 

Is there really any doubt that he turned that team around? Sure, they made it to the SB the year after he left, but how successful have they been since then?

[Flugel]

Gruden took over a Raiders team that had gone 4-12 the previous year. He immediately coached them up to an 8-8 season, then made it to the AFC Championship Game during his third year.

 

Is there really any doubt that he turned that team around? Sure, they made it to the SB the year after he left, but how successful have they been since then?

 

How long ago did we coin flip the TB Bucs for the 3rd overall draft pick? And today, the Bucs are still feeling the wraths of Gruden's planning skills. If we compare Mangini's record from 2006-2008, what's your rationale for Gruden over Mangini?

 

Maybe you're right that he was there when the Raiders went from 4-12 to playoffs. That said, why doesn't anyone ever question why that SAME franchise made their first Superbowl the first year of his absence? And to be honest, if you go back and look at the SB the Bucs won - their defense (Gruden knew little about) was managed by Monte Kiffin and they outscored their OWN WCO offense on that game day.

 

Understanding how much the Bucs gave up to acquire Gruden, they've been heading toward his firing and this dismal aftermath since they scored their final defensive TD on Superbowl Sunday. You may give him credit for Oakland but he pretty much took a hatchet to the deeply talented team Dungy built up since 1997 there. Today, they are hoping to win more than 1 game.

 

- Tom F.

[steelercrush 6]

there isn't one quality person that wants to spend time in Cleveland. What in the hell is there to do besides get drunk?

[Solon16]

How long ago did we coin flip the TB Bucs for the 3rd overall draft pick? And today, the Bucs are still feeling the wraths of Gruden's planning skills. If we compare Mangini's record from 2006-2008, what's your rationale for Gruden over Mangini?

 

Maybe you're right that he was there when the Raiders went from 4-12 to playoffs. That said, why doesn't anyone ever question why that SAME franchise made their first Superbowl the first year of his absence? And to be honest, if you go back and look at the SB the Bucs won - their defense (Gruden knew little about) was managed by Monte Kiffin and they outscored their OWN WCO offense on that game day.

 

Understanding how much the Bucs gave up to acquire Gruden, they've been heading toward his firing and this dismal aftermath since they scored their final defensive TD on Superbowl Sunday. You may give him credit for Oakland but he pretty much took a hatchet to the deeply talented team Dungy built up since 1997 there. Today, they are hoping to win more than 1 game.

 

- Tom F.

 

Well to be fair...TB drafted #17 last year and were competetive with Gruden....one year after he leaves and they will probably be picking #1 overall....so that's something! granted they cut alot of guys but....they also have the biggest FA nightmare since scott mitchell....in d.ward!

 

[Solon16]

Also I hope they keep EM....just don't want him near our draft picks!

[Flugel]

Well to be fair...TB drafted #17 last year and were competetive with Gruden....one year after he leaves and they will probably be picking #1 overall....so that's something! granted they cut alot of guys but....they also have the biggest FA nightmare since scott mitchell....in d.ward!

 

You either WANT the full story or you feel the need to edit it as well.

 

Gruden got FIRED last year Solon. I had less to do with that than Gruden's compass. They've progressively transitioned into the 1-13 team we see today that Gruden had alot to do with. Think about how many players looked SAD when he got fired? Now, how many well respected vets that played for him in Tampa and Oakland ripped him with parting shots in the media?

 

I'll bet both testicles, every car in my garage and my house that you'd find MORE players from that Tampa team that would say it was Monte Kiffen and each other they played inspired football for. And if you want to re-visit the scoring summary from the SB they won - Kiffen's defense outscored Gruden's WCO that day while too many people want to crown Gruden the superior chess player.

 

Speaking of fairness, before this conversation became all about Jon Gruden I said: I don't think we need to race to replace Mangini with Jon Gruden. However, if we ARE going to replace the Head Coach with a WCO type - I'd prefer Marriucci. If people hate bad communicating and a little Napoleon complex - they obviously never read all the parting shots countless Raiders and Bucs had for Gruden. My ONLY fond memories of a West Coast Offense here in Cleveland stem from the highlights of Otto Graham conducting it in the 40s and 50s not to be confused with the football follies we witnessed in 99 and Y2K.

 

If we're being honest about what we saw today - did the OC minimize our weaknesses and empasize our favorable matchups? Isn't it funny how daylight turned into TDs when we had a RB that wasn't pussyfooting all game? And last but not least, how many times have I told people Steinbach CAN indeed block well? In fact, our entire Oline did well all game long when our opponent KNEW we could only run the ball.

 

When you have inexperienced and struggling QBs coupled with constant roster influx - establishing chemistry and continuity on offense isn't nearly as easy as some make it sound. The OC is a ROOKIE OC that is showing me some growth and improvement in recent weeks. When he has BETTER or more experienced players to work with in key areas - I'm sure we'll see better from him as well. A foreshadow might be the ONLY time we've seen the talent/experience levels of our passing game matching up favorably w/ Detroit's secondary - our OC looked like he could call plays extremely well. Why do you suppose that is?

 

If I wasn't seeing improvement and games I could enjoy most recently - I probably wouldn't resist the knee-jerk chants to fire the Coach and the OC. This time I think we better be extremely careful what we wish for. Those that hate Napoleon Complexes shouldn't be hoping to see Gruden here or they haven't done their research at all.

- Tom F. (I'm still hoping Parcells comes here!)