The Gipper Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Right, and you're basing your evaluation of "not talented enough" on fictional things that Bill Polian may or may not have said, while trying to back it up with nothing. Fact is that you were wrong about your "evaluation" of these guys, that they aren't considered second round talent, and that we will more than likely be taking one in the draft. These are first round QB's who have higher grades than any of the last two draft class QB's. This is yet another instance of Gipper shoving his foot in his mouth, then trying to argue his way out of it with nothing. I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes? Lots of screens... both traditional and bubble. All part of the horizontal offense. But he throws them well... generally taking something off of his short throws making them very catchable. The screens are followed by lots of quick slants. Enough that I started wondering when a team would take away the slants with a backside LB and sure enough, in the next game, a UH LB picked him doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process. The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven. I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven. I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway. You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate. And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate. And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank. Okay, so you're wrong. Got it. Moving on to actual talk again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Okay, so you're wrong. Got it. Moving on to actual talk again. No, everything I said is factual. Fact: Bill Polian said these guys are second rounders at best in him estimation. Fact: These guys were not given high ratings when the college season began. Fact: Sure, many people have re-evaluated them and ranked them much higher now. Fact: nobody....including not one of you out there....including me, has a clue if a Paxton Lynch is the next Peyton Manning or the next Dan McGwire. Fact: not on of you out there knows if Jared Goff is the next Aaron Rodgers or the next Joey Harrington. Fact: my skepticism about these guys and how they are suddenly being uberhyped as being worth of our #2 overall pick gives me pause....as it should all of you. (OK, this may be more in the form of an opinion....but you get my drift.) If picking QBs were a science, then all of the scouts our there would be on a par with Einstein and Hawking.....but it is not a science. It is an art......and you don't know from one time to another if you are getting the Mona Lisa or Elvis on Velvet. (besides....your "actual talk" is quite frankly....boring, so you need me to spice things up a bit.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacosman Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. I tend to like McShay better than the other pundits, but I'm not sure I agree with him here. Obviously he's the expert and I haven't "broken down film" or anything, but I don't necessarily see it. Perhaps I could see Lynch as possibly having the higher ceiling, but I see him taking much longer to develop than Goff. Lynch has the goods, don't get me wrong, but his size and speed won't be all that impressive in the NFL. Everybody is fast, and everybody is big. Maybe not 6'7, LOL...but still. I like what I hear about Goff being a "film room junkie", and a coach's dream (heard this from a few radio shows, can't verify with link). this is actually a concern about prospects like Goff as well. Because EVERY qbs arm talent and speed is degraded(relatively) a lot when making the transition from college to the nfl. So when you have a guy who just has 'above average' arm talent in college, take that down 2-3 pegs and what do you have.....then you have people who say the mannings, bradys, and brees' of the world had only good(and not special) arm talent in college. This is not true in the least(or for how it translates to nfl).... 1) Brees' arm strength, for whatever reason, has been said to increase greatly after he got to the nfl. Why? Hell if I know. But whatever happened he found a way to put more pace on the ball than when he was at purdue. Everyone has said this. I dont think we can count on this. 2) There was never anything average about brady's arm talent. Especially his deep ball early on in his pro career. Yes he was a 6th round pick, but his arm talent was absurd. Look at him in his first year starting in the nfl and some of these throws....early in his career he threw the most rope-like deep ball I've ever seen. 3) coming out of tennessee peyton had exceptional arm talent. Was it quite on the level of Leaf? No...but it was still in the top 5% of college qbs coming out. Very very few college qbs could put more pace on 25 yard throws with only a quick hitch than peyton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff. Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar. Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State. Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency) Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation) Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch. First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good. Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off. Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure. Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage. Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar. Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch. First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good. Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off. Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure. Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage. Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best... If you're talking about the pick in the NIU game, I think that was just a bad throw. He short armed it a bit and under threw the bust route... if he had put a little more on it, it would have been six. But that also could point back to touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar. Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch. First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good. Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off. Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure. Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage. Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best... https://twitter.com/TDGawd/status/685571443006947328 Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The Rams need a quarterback. I can't see them selling tickets in Los Angeles to see Nick Foles who was benched for Casey Keenum! The Rams will take Wentz or Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Either, Goff, Lynch, or Wentz would be an upgrade. The shortest one is 6'4", Wentz might be the best pro QB. Amen. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Sports pundits gain their audiences through attention. Often going against the grain is an attention-getting ploy. Not only that but the quarterback position is so often a boom or bust pic. If you come out against every quarterback taken in the first round odds are you will be right on some level and then you can brag about it forever. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 https://twitter.com/TDGawd/status/685571443006947328 Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all. First on Goff... Yes, his deep ball is not great... and certainly does not "wow". Actually surprised me that his completion percentages are as high as they charted to be. Also surprised me that his deep percentages were higher than Lynch's. On the tweeted gif... I remember that play, but it's only one, anecdotal success... and one, I'd add, that was thrown about as flat as that deep of a ball can be thrown. But point taken... I should have said "doesn't have the ability to consistently drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 First on Goff... Yes, his deep ball is not great... and certainly does not "wow". Actually surprised me that his completion percentages are as high as they charted to be. Also surprised me that his deep percentages were higher than Lynch's. On the tweeted gif... I remember that play, but it's only one, anecdotal success... and one, I'd add, that was thrown about as flat as that deep of a ball can be thrown. But point taken... I should have said "doesn't have the ability to consistently drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath." I think Goff's deep numbers look the way they do because "deep" passing is considered 20+, and the times his arm really underwhelms is the 35-plus-yarders. As for Wentz, you're probably right -- I was just giving you shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 As for Wentz, you're probably right -- I was just giving you shit lol... not as if the giving is anything new... The new spirit with which it is given, however, will take some getting used to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 https://twitter.com/TDGawd/status/685571443006947328 Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all. OK, regarding Goff- don't know if it has to be Brett Farve bazooka, but it does have to be accurate. I refer you to around 1:55 of the video. He'll never be compared to Manziel in scrambling ability either. It's thirteen minutes of film, when he didn't have a particularly good game. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-utah-2015/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK, regarding Goff- don't know if it has to be Brett Farve bazooka, but it does have to be accurate. I refer you to around 1:55 of the video. He'll never be compared to Manziel in scrambling ability either. It's thirteen minutes of film, when he didn't have a particularly good game. http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-utah-2015/ Is that the 5 INT game? Haven't gotten to that one yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is that the 5 INT game? Haven't gotten to that one yet. That's it. Bad game but there's some good in there too. I recall two of the picks were pretty much 100% his fault, maybe 3. Other ones came from a drop and a tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I remember he threw a pretty nice TD pass before the INTs started. I saw it live but it was awhile ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The Rams need a quarterback. I can't see them selling tickets in Los Angeles to see Nick Foles who was benched for Casey Keenum! The Rams will take Wentz or Goff. They want excitement? A name that would go over big in Hollywood? Trade even up: Johnny for Foles. At least they would get the attention they want....and Johnny can butt sniff the celebrities that would come to hang around. Win Win Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Trade even up: Johnny for Foles. Done! I have a feeling we've not heard the last from Mr. Foles. Rams will land someone for "the move"... and probably add a vet. RG3 would not surprise me with Wentz as the QB of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 TCPO, I have no idea what happened to my PMs. Probably still nonexistent as a vestige of my recent ban. I don't know. But do me a favor and email me. Address is my username @yahoo.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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