Barry

With our running attack doing so well and the Browns doing well, it'd be great to see J.B. support our 2 Rbs. like before. I imagine his health and/or threat of Covid-19 are keeping him away.

6 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Tour: "Alexa - Nick Chubb does not have his 7th gear back!" 

Alexa: "I don't know about that!" 😂

 

 

I also seem to recall one of his TD runs against Oakland as coming in as the 2nd fastest run in the NFL that year.

I have been watching the Browns since Jim Brown's last year, which was 1965. And I think I am ready to say that Nick Chubb is the best Browns running back I have seen since J.B. That includes HOFer Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, and everyone else. For those of you that have seen all the great RBs on the Browns since J.B., either in person or on video, what are your thoughts? Right now only Leroy Kelly is the RB that would challenge Chubb, imo. But I think if I were picking a team I'd go with Chubb.  

Two things which I thought. Baker sure looked better with OBJ not in the lineup. It will be interesting to see how Baker does the next few games (or longer) if OBJ's injury is serious like they think it is,

Second, I thought Joe Woods called a horrible game. It was obvious that Cinci had the Browns' number in regards to how much we were blitzing, but Joe never altered his strategy. If you are facing a rookie Qb it seems that there are two ways to face him- either bring the blitz or disguise the back 7's alignment. I didn't see us disguising our coverage much at all. We kept blitzing and we kept getting burnt by it. 

I know..... He'll want too much money. Probably won't even hit the market, etc. There are 1,000 reasons why it won't happen. Still, I'll be dreaming about Dak Prescott hitting the market next year.

22 minutes ago, Orion said:

Baker misses high on a lot of his missed passes.  He hasn't demonstrated the accuracy that he supposedly has.

Jake Burns noticed that it usually happens when there is a congested pocket and Baker has to step up and throw "over the top".

In addition to that my gut feeling is that whenever Baker feels the pressure he thinks he has to get the ball out not only faster but with more juice on it.

Anyone else wondering why they got away from rolling out Baker in the 2nd half?

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

For the Negative Nancy stuff about Baker.  Anyone tune into the MNF game?  Yeah, Mayfield isn't Mahomes- but then again, no other QB currently in the NFL is either. He absolutely shredded a stout Ravens defense that gave us fits. I'll say it now- he's a Tom Brady with wheels, a better arm, and around a 1\2 second better reaction time... Besides being able to toss the rock 50+ yards effortlessly and with accuracy- there were a couple exceptional touch passes. Nice dodging the rush and rifling the ball to an open receiver too.... 

KC gave everyone the blueprint on how to beat the Ratbirds. Stop their run, and make Jackson beat you with his arm. (He's drastically improved in that department though.) Also, need outside contain so he can't beat you with his legs... 

I read that under Jackson the Ravens have never come back to win a game where they have been down by 8 or more (granted there haven't been a lot of those). Also, he is 0-9 when trailing at the half. 

I got in with a vpn using a European country.

A positive to take away regarding Baker is that Washington plays their DEs out wide, which effectively took Baker's roll-outs away. I don't recall any plays which were designed roll-outs for him. So he was staying in the pocket, the place where he has been least effective. And he still had a good, decent game. I think there was progress made today.

25 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yerp,   latter day OL have bulked up,  and the occasional DL is heavier, but  those Browns had DL of like 265/270 pounds...which is not much difference than today.   And I am not even sure about the LBs.  Jim Houston was 6'3 240.  What are our LBs today? 

Houston was good size but I was looking at Costello (who was a good player) who played the middle at 230, Dale Lindsey at 223, and Stan Sczurek at 5'11" and 230. As run-stoppers, which was what their primary responsibilities were in those days, that's a bit light.

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I am not of the opinion that the "opposition" back in the 60 was necessarily smaller and slower. 

Bid Daddy Lipscomb was  6'9  300 pounds....

Myles Garrett is about the same size as Gino Marchetti....maybe 10 pounds different. 

DBs are clearly no bigger now than they were then.  

LBs today are really no bigger.   Joe Schobert  at 6'1"  230  at MLB is 2 inches shorter  and 20 pounds lighter than Dick Butkus.   6'3 250.  MLB Sam Huff was the same 6'1  230 as Schobert. 

The ONLY players that are bigger?  Offensive linemen....did bulk up over the 60s guys.  And QBs do average an inch or two taller.  That is it. 

I remember looking at the roster charts that were in the Browns programs in the mid-60s and seeing if any players were 300 pounds. There were only 1-2 total from both teams so I have come to think that most of the players were smaller than they are today. But I found this roster of the '65 Browns (brings back a lot of memories) and, you are right, except for the linemen and maybe a linebacker or two, the sizes were not much different than they are today. Thanks for the correction. Was really interesting looking over this sheet. Here it is in case you are interested:  https://www.statscrew.com/football/roster/t-CLE/y-1965

5 hours ago, Footbalfan1962 said:

Problem is, its hard to judge generationally. nothing against Brown or Sayers, they were great, but lets face it..in the 60's you had a bunch of slow white guys chasing you around versus todays game

It definitely is an eyeball test, and how much that person dominated the other players at the time they played. But if you are going to compare players from different eras (which is just a guessing game, imo), I think running backs are probably one of the easier positions to do so. Sayers was 200 lbs and 6 ft. J.B. was 6'2" and 232 lbs. Both those stats would stand up well today as well as their speed. True, the opposition were smaller and slower. You go back as far as the 20s and there is Wilbur 'Pete' Henry, also known as 'Fats'.  He was one oft he NFL's largest and most dominant linemen in the 20s and was 5'11" and 245 lbs.

I agree. Sayers was the original Sanders, and more entertaining to watch. In my book he comes in just a shade below J.B. for those too few years. He was that good. RIP

No less a patriot than Thomas Jefferson said "a little rebellion now and then is a good thing" for America. In my opinion Americans do more self-reflecting than any other nation on earth, and a hell of a lot of good has occurred because of it. So I am all for it.

And to the people who think it should stay out of football and sports, we all know that the issue is more important than sports. Until we right what is obviously a terrible wrong, no venue should be safe from reminding us of this serious problem.

31 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

How/why did we let him go?  Demario Davis that is. 

Or the Jets for that matter.

I'll always look at this trade as an opportunity lost. We could have had Logan Ryan without giving up a draft pick. A far better player who also fits our scheme and we had the money to get him. We could have had steak but got hamburger instead.

16 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

I trust DPD and their assessments about as much as I trust DawgsByNature.

... basically with every grain of salt you can offer me.

I hear where you're coming from. But if one guy is dropping passes and one guy is catching them , in fact, 2 in a row for touchdowns, then for me that is not speculative analysis but objective facts. 

Having said that, to proclaim Bryant the 2nd TE is premature. but to say he is pushing Njoku hard from what can be seen by observers, is worth considering, imo.

10 minutes ago, Zombo said:

We've got two solid veteran backups in Lamm and Hubbard and the backup Center, Harris seems to be holding his own. Could be the kind of year where we sift through the veteran cuts to find a backup guard, there are always a few decent ones.

As for linebacker ... I don't know what the hell is going on, but obviously not a position of priority with the new staff.

Zombo

That's true. I should have said OG. Given the attention the OL received by the FO to improve it, I am surprised they haven't brought in better quality guards to look at. But as you mention, it pales to the lack of attention the LB group has received.

On 8/19/2020 at 12:11 PM, Icecube said:

It seems like it. This means they need some vets to step up to provide leadership. It is a must. 

Yet the front office is not bringing in veteran LBs or OL to serve as back-ups. I just keep scratching my head at this. You know that back-ups will play a more important role this year, and the play of our linebackers so far is based on a hope. Not a good situation to be when we play the Ravens in just a few weeks and you want to contend, as was mentioned.

Hyper- extended his knee. Conversation is now whether or not to have season-ending surgery.

Am perplexed about a couple of Browns' moves recently. First, with the most cap space in the league and in losing several players this year from the OL, which received, deservedly, a lot of attention this off-season, why are they signing undrafted players instead of going after some players with NFL experience to back-up? With the anticipation that this year you will be using back-up players more due to Covid-19, doesn't it make sense to protect Baker with not only starters with good experience but back-ups?

To make room for the latest OL guy (Fair) they waived Jameson Houston (Cb), whom they signed as an undrafted player this spring and even gave him a $60,000 bonus.  That money isn't going to break the bank but it's rather strange that they thought enough of him in the spring to give him 60K and then after a week or so of having him in Berea they cut him. what's going on with their talent evaluation that a new guy is thought of highly enough to put out a few dollars cash for him and then in just several days of seeing him, not even in a full practice,  they cut him?

No indictments here. Just a couple of data points that popped into my head, and was wondering what others thought.

A possible interesting situation: It's not unreasonable that there may be a vaccine ready for manufacture by September. The U.S. Government has invested with several of the leading companies/partnerships for manufacturing rights. If Trump is trailing Biden by similar numbers or worse than he is today,  I can see him directing the first manufactured batch for the NFL. He will get plenty of criticism but at that point he will have nothing to lose and may think that this may get him more popular and votes. The NFL, of course, would love for that to happen and, assuming that the players agree to be the first guinea pigs to the mass-produced vaccine, this might save their season.

The odds of this happening is low but I would think that this scenario is being discussed by both parties. Imo the season won't happen.

1 hour ago, Icecube said:

I think he could fetch the $5 mill. Not sure if he will command $8 for the following reasons. 

1.) Backs are devalued now. Why pay $8 if you can draft and equivalent and pay $1-2 mill? 

2.) Cap may actually shrink because revenues are (i.e. attendance decreasing). 

3.) Unlike the last few decades, Browns may be thin on cap space considering they will be paying Myles, Baker, Chubb and a few others soon. 

I'm thinking that he would get the higher amount only if he pans out as a rb/wr. We wouldn't keep Higgins in that scenario so that's a million dollars in salary that could conceivably transfer from Higgins to Hunt.

Edit- I don't think they will play this year. Next year revenue will be back to normal, maybe even higher.

2nd Edit- Just read the article about 3rd receivers in Stefansky's system. They don't fare too well in numbers. Mostl likely he won't have the kind of year that will get him into the $8 million range.

1 hour ago, Icecube said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/06/22/kareem-hunt-feels-lucky-and-blessed-to-be-a-brown/

 

I wonder how much the team is willing to pay a #2 RB. What would you guess Hunt would command on an open market? 

McCaffrey leads the parade, $16 mill a year average. (worth every penny)

Hunt is at $3.3. 

They might be willing to go as high as $5 or so, per year. What would you be willing to pay him (keep in mind, some big deals coming up that will eat big chunks of cap space

and also, the cap might be shrinking soon, not expanding).

Don't get this wrong but I think the Browns want to use Hunt as a glorified Duke Johnson. I say don't get me wrong beause Duke is not close to being what Hunt is. But I see them using Hunt as a hybrid rb/3rd receiver. If that is the case then his value goes up. The next full season we play will be critical for Hunt. If he is just average then I don't see his salary going above $4-5 million. But Duke Johnson currently gets $5.2 million/year (per overthecap) so I can see Hunt getting $6-8 million if he has a good year. I also think the Browns would pay it.