tiamat63

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I don't see Winston running RPO stuff. Am I wrong?

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

 

Why not?  The RPO, built off the inside zone or even a QB centered inside zone read means the 'R' part of RPO is centered more around the RB than the QB.   The mobility of the QB is just a plus when you want or need to use that athletic ability as a schematic advantage in building play designs off of, what we understand, as the simple stuff. 

Winston isn't Lamar, but he has decent enough wheels like your classic mobile passers.  

11 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Damn... guy hasn't even played a down for us and you nickname him that? 😉

You gotta earn the 'H' here, friend. 

1 hour ago, Orion said:

ok.  Then you're saying that the Browns made a mistake in drafting him.

*blink*    

 The mistake is really in *where* players are drafted, not so much *if*.   

 Had the Browns put a 5th rounder into Manziel, you wouldn't have head much of a peep out of me.   Instead, they decided to go full retard and put the #22 overall on the table.  Invoking and deserving my full agitation.

Coleman was severely overvalued because their were front offices who felt his one great great trait (first step burst) overcame his several negative traits (hands, footwork, routes and post snap coverage reads).        

That mistake wasn't repeated here with a large over-investment of draft capital in Trash.  He was taken appropriately so the draft capital is balanced with the risk.

18 hours ago, Orion said:

Coleman was predicted to go in the 1st round.  Thrash wasn't predicted anywhere near the 1st round.  

Neither of those things negate the similarities in the short comings of their respective games. 

2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

OHHHH that's right the 2017 Halloween weekend game.  yeah, I was drunk AF for that one.

15 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

That or when Sam Hubbard tackled Barkley and whoever the dbag QB was who wore #9 at the same time are perhaps my favorite OSU defensive plays ever, besides Cie Grant blitzing Dorsey in 2002. 

The Bosa one SD mentioned was 2014 - J.T's rFrsh season when Braxton was out.    #9 would have been Trace... we lost to Penn State that year at their house (2016)

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language .. 

ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of lead to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)

During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.

 

   

I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.

That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.

- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips.  From Ga Tech to Indy.       This means two things - defenses respect speed.  But they also don't respect your QB.  I call those types of things "poker plays".   And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see.    You're playing the man more than the hand.  

- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.   

I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q.    But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops.   Hand injury not withstanding.  

He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL.   He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT.  So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.   

His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good.  But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far.   Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.   

edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.

He has ability, but he needs time and coaching.  Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman.  Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole.   Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.

More Apt given that highlight and lowlight films are usually telling 25% of the story at best.

Interesting prospect.  There is a theme among the IDL taken by the Browns this draft - first step burst. 

16 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Not that I have any idea what that means, but I will pass it on. Is it any particular type of games you are talking about? If he deals with those, it's something he can work on.

 Honestly I'm just fucking with you.  I don't play anywhere near enough anymore to justify giving suggestions.  I hoped on Madden for the first time in 5 years and the same play mechanics have been broken from when I last left off.   Really screams how cornered and lax they have that title as.   NFL 2k5 played better and that was 20 years ago.

15 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Really?! My son-in-law is a programmer for EA. I'm gonna have to ask him if he can get me some free play on some of their stuff.

Tell him their game mechanics are trash and need to be fixed. 

Completely off topic, but I was given a month of free EA play.  If anybody wants to get a game of Madden in - holla.  

1 hour ago, Orion said:

Seems like ya have to draft a CB each and every year.  Unwritten rule.

Take the best athlete at CB you can find this late and coach him up.   New England strategy for years that worked. 

Long strider - Thrash.   Looks like Joe McKnight but lighter.

12 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Sometimes I wonder what the GM's are using for their player lists.

Lions just traded up in the 4th for a random S rated as a 6th rd prospect.

With the very next pick, Chiefs stayed where they were and took a S who could have been drafted in rd2 with no question marks.

Front offices evals are a fickle bitch.  Because they might grade a guy 1-2 rounds higher than where he might normally go.    At that point, what they so often fail to do late day 2 and early day 3, is read the room.  Read the market.   Because you grade him THAT high doesn't mean others would spend the draft capital on him.    

I use the phrase CMV (current market value) vs HMV (historic market value)     In this case, the Lions really whiffed on the former.

33 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Yes, they played every snap -- and not because the depth is poop.  Deep dive at tOSU incoming.. for whatever old-head reason, OSU doesn't rotate. 

One of my largest critiques of tOSU coaching staff from Knowles to Hartline.      That's what I loved about Tress and Urby, young guys played and got that experience.

You could tell how smoked the Dline was 2nd half of The Game.  At that point they were on fumes. 

33 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Tia, have you heard anything of the so-called "personality red flags" that are guessed to be why Hall fell?

Haven't heard a thing.  2nd round, middle of, was about the absolute highest I would have had Mikey's eval.  Would have been more comfortable in a middle 3rd rounder. 

36 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Which is why I asked on another thread if we just got another Tommy Togiai 2.0, a failure with the Browns.

No.  Tommy was a 'tweener.  Mikey is a 3/4 tech. 

An NFL scout really said a 282lb 3tech should shed "weight and be a LB". ? 

I would fucking doubt that. And that's a piss poor eval. 

Concerned about health for both our day 2 picks. 

When he was on fire early, Mikey Hall was wrecking Notre Dame like Aaron Donald.  But he has missed some games. 

19 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

 

Kingsley Suamataia

 

 

Needs A LOT of work 

Love me some Mikey Hall, love Buckeyes staying home.  I question the price paid at #54 for a rookie 3 tech with some previous health issues. 

If anyone needs a stream to watch The Draft, I'll be running it off my discord.

https://discord.gg/MrEhRppT

14 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

In Detroit for the draft. Fun times. No Cleveland draft though...  

How's that new Lions jersey fitting? 

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 but from what I saw he looks to be the best A&M Edge since Myles.

I'd put more stock into these words if you hadn't been so off the mark on your previous pimping's of A&M players that fell wildly short of your hype. 

TBB discord for tonight, anyone and everyone welcomed to talk shop. 

https://discord.com/invite/UXH3BM4X

Minnesota.  Come on now 😂

 Sadly haven't been able to do the work I would usually do in years past, and what little I have done has gone elsewhere.  Busy busy.  So some condensed thoughts. 

- LB class fails to impress me top to bottom.  Payton Wilson reminds me a bit of Zaven Collins mixed with Blake Martinez. Not sure how I feel about that other than lukewarm at best. 

- QB class isn't far behind the list in my lack of excitement. Which is funny given that every 20 years you get a monster group - 84, 04....24?   I wasn't alive for the first class and I was a teenager for the 2004 group.  But I don't see this two decade trend holding up.    Caleb Williams is a great improviser, but his work when the SC line wasn't at it's best looked....selfish and panicked, to say the least.   All the physical tools in the world, but does he have the brain to play and handle the most intense and difficult position in all of sports? Not so sure. 

I still have yet to see a logical argument for JJ McCarthy being as hyped as he is.

- Draft is trench heavy and I like that.  Means a small trade down from #54 likely won't harm this team.  I'd gladly take two solid players over one pretty good player.  And both lines need a bit of future proofing before long. 

- DB I haven't had time with, but I've loved the New England method of late rounder plus athletes that get coached up. 

- Not really seeing a need for receiver unless the BPA is just THAT good. 

Looking forward to another good draft with some shocks memories.  I might be watching from my phone the first couple days. But I'll do my best to log in and be active day 3.   

I'll post TBB discord link later because that's a great online meet up to do live draft discussion.