Nero

I loved his signing, I loved his attitude and I loved his performance.

Business is business, but best of luck and best wishes from now on, Juice! 

I wish it was true... 

I don't want trading 3 freaking first rounders for Watson. 

Pro poster. 

I was thinking the same the other day, if there is any news please let me know, too. 

On 2/6/2022 at 6:15 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Well soak it all in DBone, because this could be the last Dutch's Questions! 😧

I've been very busy lately and haven't checked the board for some months, but I will play next year, too. Great job, Dutch

That could be called a DPI easily... 

Merry Christmas you crazy 'muricans!!!! 

Wanna be a playoff team? Gotta prove it now. 

OMG we're in it. Come on D, you've been doing great lately! 

GO BROWNS!!!!!

Last year, a Raven's v Steeler game got postponed 3 times because the Ravens had more than 20 members with COVID. Doesn't that jurisprudence affect Browns situation now? 

And vaccines my ass. In Spain there are many more cases of people vaccinated than not. I'm pro vaccines and I always follow the rules, I never contested getting vaccinated, but I have to say that the paranoia and prosecution of those who don't want to get vaccinated by very uneffective vaccines with side effects is alarming.

People live by fear and anger when the positives today most of the times don't make it to the hospital, and probably is simply something that we will have to live through. 

If the Browns are forced to forfeit after following the rules and simply being "unlucky", it's gonna be an ugly move by the league. Heck, they even fined the Titans for breaking the protocols but they never made them forfeit. 

I was damning my bad luck until I realized it is a Saturday game. That will work perfectly for me

14 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

 

The 3rd and 1 bothered me because there are scenarios to take that shot.  Yesterday wasn't one of them and I've spoken about Stef sometimes being a bit too "by the numbers" analytical.  Those tools are to help support your decision making, not make the decisions for you. 

That's high praise, very kind of you.  Not sure I deserve it but I thank you all the same.  To answer your points as best I can in order.

1st

- McNabb was about the absolute dead last of the QB's to be drafted high coming from offenses that even sprinkled in the option.  And keep in mind, 'Cuse wasn't a veer-option exclusive team.   They played a great deal under center with some pretty modern (at the time) concepts. Including using McNabb's legs to get outside on rollouts. The veer they tossed in was an offensive supplement to a spotty running game.   Far as I can find re: Donovan running reads and pulls ...

135 carries

438yards

8tds

 

Not exactly Braxton Miller numbers working out of the option, veer and QB power?  Still plenty of work in the I and 2 back sets and timing passing game.  Cliche' "wyco", as you alluded to.  If you go back and watch some of the tapes from Youtube, you can see the flashes of a strong armed slinger with sound mechanics and decent athletic ability.  I don't see a lot of designed reads intended to let him run wild.  His legs were always an "in case".   Steve Young is a great example.   Fantastic QB, HOF,  great passer.  He was a good athlete in case shit broke down, it was just a secondary weapon in the arsenal.     Remember about McNabb though that pick was boo'd LOUDLY and not so quietly questioned in the Philly offices.       (And I mean loud boo's even for Philly terms)     To call Mcnabb an "option" QB like he came from a Rich Rodriguez offense is a disservice to his abilities as a passer before being drafted.

Speaking of McNabb and Farve such... don't forget both QB's had early struggles in their careers adjusting to the NFL.    Hell, for as much fun as Brett was to watch, nobody cost him more trips to the Superbowl than he did himself.   And that includes John Randle.

2nd

- Baker coming in during the NYJ game.  We all remember that night and had a ton of fun, I remember it well myself.   Yes there was energy and excitement when Baker entered like any young rookie QB you want to see.   And yes he did a fine job helping to engineer a comeback.    Let's not get so lost in Baker that we forget the defense only allowed a FG after the break which let a rookie QB have the opportunity to move the ball.   We also did it by tossing in things we hadn't previously shown with Tyrod (for reasons I can't understand) like the couple opening RPO's after the half.     Truth is, it's incredibly hard to gauge the potential of those teams because of how incompetent Hue was.    But don't forget Baker struggled afterwards, had his ups and down and only began to find consistency when Freddy and co. cut down the offense, went back under center and let the beast we know as Chubb power the car.   Baker can steer, but the running game has been the engine since that day.   To the point of Bakers stats suffer disproportionately to damn near every other elite, good or above average QB in going from play action to straight drops.    This is a trend, if you search for my posts, I highlighted as far back as the 2017 season when I broke down EVERY snap of Bakers against Oklahoma State.  

Here's the link.  26th post down.   

 

I even had a little nod to Mason Rudolph back then even though I wasn't watching him.   That one turned out very prophetic as well.    I'm VERY proud of my scouting and breakdown in this instance because it goes to show you what you really find when you have the eye and put in the work.      Which circles back around to my mentioning of Bakers stats suffering -  the shortcomings I listed in that very post from 11/17 (4 years ago now) haven't changed.    THAT is my biggest concern with our QB.  The deficiencies he, or any other passer, would have to overcome to be a franchise player have not been overcome in the slightest.   In the NFL they've actually been magnified.  Starting with the excess straight drops and emphasis the coaches tried to put on a modern vertical passing game at the start of the 2019 season.  Downfield stresses I've mentioned teams like KC, LAC, TB, SEA (went away from, don't know why?) and BUF run.       Yes, I am aware of our OT play for that season as well.  BELIEVE Me, you can find my posts on here highlighting it.  However in the move of addressing said OT spot in the 2020 off-season, we also brought in a HC that tailored an offense similar to what bloomed Bakers initial success his rookie season.   The drawback is, in order to improve that offense and to consistently stay ahead of an ever changing defensive curve, you have to be able to execute high level concepts against a myriad of coverages.   Most importantly, you HAVE to be able to threaten every level of a defense with these concepts.   Baker, even dating back to last year, has been hit and miss executing these concepts to their fullest (vertical) potential.   I highlighted a missed opportunity to Odell against the Cowboys as one of a handful of examples.    

We have injury concerns and limitations at our WR corps.   The latter needs to be addressed along with a long-term solution to our RT situation.   But underneath that all, I still have my doubts that Baker can be the QB who will allow this team to invest middle round draft capital in skill players and help to turn them into stars.    I've watched his ball placement since college, I've watched his downfield shots, I've watched his eyes.   I've seen SOME improvement, but that improvement is, I hesitate to say "marginal"...   but it can be washed away by some of the incredibly questionable decisions and NON-decisions I've watched Mayfield make.    

I'm in no hurry to get rid of Baker, none what-so-ever.   Which is the thing I'm hoping you and anyone else who reads this understands.  I hope we don't get rid of Baker because that would mean he has risen to the level of QB every organization in the NFL Needs in order to keep open a 10 year superbowl window.   But I also have to be realistic.   Baker hasn't been so brilliant that he has become irreplaceable either.      Speaking of 2017,  Case Keenum lead a VERY similar offense, although with better receivers compared to ours currently (but our RB's are WAY better) with the Vikings.   A Vikings squad that had some of our current coaches, most notably Stef.      Peep those Baker 2020 stats and compare them with Case 2017.  You will be shocked to see how damn close they are in every meaningful category.   Within a percentile of each other actually, all the way down to rushing stats.

 

- 3rd and finally 

 

As for Joe Thomas  His career was wasted by questionable coaches but an ownership and management staff that couldn't identify and maintain talent if it bit them in the ass.I laughed at the Brady Quinn pick because I saw just how bad he was at anticipating zone coverages against the Buckeyes.  Which was a full year before he was even drafted. 

Hell, I'd slap you if you walked up and said you "couldn't wait" to get rid of Baker.  It's rude, dismissive, and bad math.   The QB generally receives undue credit or undue praise.  Which is why I try my absolute best to understand how complex this type of thing is.   Hell Derek Anderson, if anything, actually PROVES my point.   If you get a coaching staff worth their salt, they can take marginal talent and still form a competitive and possibly even winning team.   Kyle Shanahan is my favorite example of that.   That dude could take 11 of us off the street and average 20ppg.     What this boils down to me ultimately is cost.    I cannot, as of typing this, endorse paying Baker even Tannehill money.   There's no metric that shows he has earned it other than "heart" and "competitive" and "leader"... neat.   Again, if those were real things we got paid on Timmy Tea-biscuit would be a billion dollar athlete by now.   

However I'm not so arrogant as to say it's not possible Baker could STILL get to that point of earning it with the Browns.    Which is why I whole-heartedly believe he will play out his 5th year option.   I also whole-heartedly believe that if this organization wants to make that decision (which is about a calendar year from now)  as easy as humanly possible, they need to shut Baker down now.   Get him healthy, address skill positions and RT in the off-season and give the coaches every possible tool to help make Barry's evaluation and calculation an accurate one.   Because in 12 months there will be no more "yeah, but XYZ". 

It'll be "Baker healthy? - yeah"   

           "He getting it done? - no"    "Welp, here's our offer to reflect that"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too long, did not read, lololololol. 

I had to do it.

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

SCRAP. THE. EMPTY. SETS.

 

Fuck.   I don't make 6 figures as an NFL data analyst and I can tell you our passing success rate from them is fucking awful. 

With an offense whose main skill is running, a QB who performs way better on play action, either under center or in shotgun... I hate it everytime they play it. 

This game is going to be won by a half ass offense helping just enough a good defense. 

What a lousy pass

Must win, given the context and conditions. 

6 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I would continue to say that I think Baker is our Andy Dalton, but I don't want to be reminded again that Baker won one playoff game to Andy Dalton's zero playoff wins.

 

You know, Baker won one playoff game. 

Dalton, instead... 

38 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

You actually going to be around for the game today? 

We've been missing our favorite Spaniard during the games this season!

Tavern? Nope. Maybe I hop around but I'll watch the redzone with some friends and my brother.

Today it's us inviting, and we'll be having beers, chips and pizzas. I'll wear my Nick Chubb jersey though

Let's fucking GOOOO!!!!! 

2 hours ago, Zombo said:

I like Felton. But he's a role player... he's no Jarvis Landry.

Z

I feel the same way. I wonder how certain players will perform once the spotlights switches to them. 

Great resigning of Bitonio. OL is a mandatory continous investment for this offensive system. 

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

What else does Baker need?

Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason? 
 

Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?  
 

I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
 

I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1. 
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket.  Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 too

Baker unfortunately is consistent on being inconsistent. One game he can be balling out and the next one misses everyone and doesn't see the things he needs to see.

I like the guy and I'm far away from letting him go because he has been the best Browns' QB of the last 20 years, but looking how the season is turning out I would bench him until he is 100% and let the rest of the roster prove if this team is playoff worthy or not. Take the 5th year option and see next year how it goes. 

I hate stupid. And this is the quintessential of stupidness. If you drink, you don't drive. He had multiple chances not to do so (fuck he could have slept in a hotel) 

I hope he doesn't receive a special treatment. He has fucked up his life and still that won't get back that woman's life. 

That was a great play by the Steelers. Let's go O.

Gotta dial up this offense... Because they have been atrocious last 2 drives.