ballpeen

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

Well you are debating with nickers, who was possibly the inspiration for the old saying:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

Over a billion dollars to renovate an open air stadium that barely gets used and I guarantee the Haslams will still not like (and want replaced as soon as possible) is a tough pill to swallow. 

Spending 1.2 billion on a renovation would be a poison pill.  No matter what is said and done, it will still be an old stadium in new clothes and have the same amount of function as the current stadium.

5 hours ago, nickers said:

What?.. More shitty Kenny Chesney concerts?... No thanks...

It's not about just what you like.  It's about having a facility that can be used dozens of times a year and become an economic engine for all of NE Ohio.  That point really isn't debatable when comparing to an upgraded outdoor stadium.

I like Watson as well.  Miss St wasn't very good, but he did lead the SEC in tackles.  At least he seems to find the ball.

4 hours ago, nickers said:

Agreed.. Like you said... If they're gonna build a dome.. you might as well stay at home.. why build a dome when you can save money on heating and powering costs.. etc... All they would do is pass that cost on to the customer.. The average income family can barely afford the cost of a game as it is...  Jimmy is constantly finding more ways to alienate fans... This might be one of them...

It isn't so much about the weather as it is being able to use the thing year round.

2 minutes ago, nickers said:

Hiring De"pud"esta is not my idea of "Vision"

Why would you say that?   Based on what?

We need to know the entire story.  Is the money already appropriated by already voted on existing law?  Sin tax, whatever it might be called.  

Cleveland has this in place.  I don't think any new taxes will go towards the stadium fund.  They are already being collected.

I don't like to say this as I have already said I consider myself a Clevelander until death.   The Cleveland city council thinks like Wal-Mart shoppers.  They fucked up the last move, and now want to take the cheap way out of things, and will fuck this up again.

Haslam has vision.  The elected representatives don't.  They are simpletons elected by simpletons.

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Damn, we have a guy on here who actually saw Otto Graham play in person. I can't imagine there's a ton of Browns fans around that can say that.

Which explains why you wouldn't remember whose jersey was your first Browns one... it was probably 20-25 years later before team merchandise started becoming "a thing", in the late 70s or so. 

 

LOL....you do have to have a little age on you.  As for jerseys, yeah, it was just a Browns jersey, no names, just numbers.  I think mine was in the 50's.  I don't remember the exact number, I have slept since then.

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

It's the dead time of the Browns season... post-draft but months before training camp... thought it would be a good time for a quick questionnaire

1. When was your first Browns game you attended in person? What do you remember from it?    Otto hlast season, 55 I think.  I remember it was cold and the first game my Dad took me to....I remember the fist game over Otto Graham.  I might have been 6-7 years old.   Popcorn and hotdogs were the main attractions.

2. When was your last Browns game you attended in person? Any good/funny anecdotes from it?   Last season, I have season ticket's.

3. First favorite Browns player? Who was the Browns player you first really liked?   Jim Brown

4. Last (current) favorite Browns player not named Nick Chubb? 😁  Myles

5. First Browns jersey you owned? Who was the player?  ??

6. Last Browns jersey you owned? Who?  Jim Brown

7. If you could go back in time and see any Browns game in person, what game would you go to?  ??  Several I suppose.

8. If you could put any current NFL player on the Browns, THAT DOESN'T PLAY QUARTERBACK, who would it be?   Good question...Tyreek Hill???

 

All's cool Nick....lol....I wore some expensive suits while working, but I don't give a flip anymore.  If people don't like it, have a good day anyway.

I make my own day, I don't let others make it for me.

I do know clam diggers had a cuff, and some sort of V cut on the side.   LOL

2 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Two years before Modell moved, the grumblings of his unhappiness were known.

Other than reports and chatter that Modell was an asshole, there really was not proper attention given to this, and the rest is history.

Enter Haslam. He has no historical love lost for Browns culture, history or anything else past what these things do for his pocketbook.

So now, he favors a stadium in Brookpark. What infrastructure is there to support the madness that is Browns weekends and tailgating?

I will be dollars to donuts that Haslam has already arranged right of first refusal on properties that would skyrocket in value should the stadium move.

Personally, I believe the Browns should play in Cleveland, right where they are. On the grounds that the team was planted in.

I find it funny that they can find venture capital for a new stadium, but not 1/50 of that capital to build new parking decks and the amenities they feel downtown needs to make games an easier experience to enjoy.

Again, to me, the Brookpark Browns are no different than the Baltimore Browns.

 

Well Ghoolie, I disagree.  There are multiple examples of teams playing outside the city limits of their named team.

I consider myself a Clevelander even though I grew up in Bay Village.  I don't know if you know the area, but it is a suburb maybe 15-20 miles west of town.  I have lived away from the area for over 50 years now but when people ask me where I am from, I say Cleveland, or the Cleveland area.  People know that.  They don't know Bay Village  from squat even though Bay is a very upscale suburb.  Anybody who lives in the area knows Bay is a desirable address.

I think a dome is a needed addition to the area, even though I don't live there.  I have been to at least dozens of games at the old stadium and having had season tickets since 2003(? maybe 150 games at the current, we need a dome.  

I had nice seats on the 45 yard line, upper deck, 18 rows up to start, but after 3-4 years I moved to the club section.  The only place to get any heat was the restroom.  Let's face it, you can only stand in a restroom so long before you look like some sort of a freak...lol.

I want the conditioned environment.  The players want that.  This idea the game was supposed to be played in crap weather is bogus.  Back in the day, seasons were over by mid December....championship games.

College football has bowl games.  Why are they not played in places like Cleveland, Green Bay?  Because people aren't stupid enough to pay money to watch a game in crap conditions.  They will go to places like New Orleans, Miami and Pasadena.

Just my take.

For the record I like both Ghoolie and Nick.

For some time I thought Ghoolie might be Rich.  I consider Rich a friend.

No matter, we probably need to get a little less personal with the insults and just stick with the topic.

If we can't do that, why even have a Browns message board?  And Nick, that was a pretty bad look.  Clam  diggers? But hey, my typical day uniform is a white T with baggy blue mesh shorts that probably don't get washed enough, so call me guilty as well.

I want to see a dome.  I might be considered a pussy by some. At least I am not a retard.

Oh, I also have central heating and air conditioning in my home.  Sounds like some of you simpletons might want to try it, and if you have it, then rip it out before you come in here talking shit.

Just saying....

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Ya know, I never watch pregame shows.  I turn on a football game when it's time for kick-off.  But that's just me.

I am the same way.  I might catch the final 5 minutes before the game.

6 hours ago, Orion said:

So, we traded a 1st & a 4th round pick for Watson.  Then we threw in some extra picks and they threw in a pick.  Certainly sounds better than three 1st rounders.    

Anywho, we're paid in full (outside of his salaries) on the investment.  Now, we continue to wait for a return on the investment.  And we can get back in the business of drafting on Thursday nights.  Perhaps even drafting a QB in round 1.  I mean, we can't see the future.  There's a non zero chance that Watson never returns to form.  After all, he did screw up his throwing shoulder.

I will not argue against the after the fact issues,  they are after the fact.

That;s a different topic of discussion.

17 hours ago, Orion said:

The Browns will receive Watson and a 2024 sixth-round draft choice (which was originally a fifth-round pick), while the Texans will receive a 2022 first-round pick (No. 13 overall), 2023 and 2024 first-round picks, a 2022 fourth-round choice (No. 107), a third-round pick in 2023 and a fourth-round pick in 2024. 

I know what the trade values were. My point is my valuation is the first year of picks don't count as extra.  We received Watson in return.  The 2nd and 3rd year are the extra picks.  I think Berry has done a good job of covering the 3rd and 4th rounders so I don't think we lost much there.

I don't know, Watson was part of the trade so in my mind we gave up 2 first round picks.

On 4/27/2024 at 9:41 AM, Orion said:

I agree to a degree.  In the later rounds your drafting players that you think could help you.  Just like after the draft.  You've already got your ideas on who you'd like to sign once the draft ends and the remaining players become free agents.  

I said back in February that, for a change, we're a BPA team.  We don't have a roster full of glaring needs right now.  Yes, I wanted to target a WR and a pass catching TE.  But that's because I'm acting as a fan...and not a GM.  With no 1st round pick we HAVE TO be successful with our 2nd & 3rd round picks...and to me that means NO REACHING.  Take the best darned player available.  (obviously we wouldn't pick a QB at that point in the draft)  You can target positions in the later rounds of the draft if ya want since basically many of those guys are just glorified free agents....but the obvious goal is to find the players of good value to add to your team.  As a season wears on and players get hurt, it's the teams that did a good job of acquiring those glorified free agents that continue to fill injury holes and keep on winning.

He was our 2nd pick.  I contend it wasn't a later round.

Teams have two boards.  A vertical board and a horizontal board.  The vert is simply a list of the BPA.  The horizontal is the board that fits the teams needs.  Teams match the two.

43 minutes ago, Orion said:

It's a good spot for a G pick.  But I saw that he was ranked 4th round.  We don't have a 4th rounder so I guess we'd just take him in the 3rd.    

I don't like to bring fantasy in to reality, but with our draft position and lack of a 4th round pick, it can make sense to draft a round ahead of the other teams and get some of your targeted players.  No matter if Zinter had a 4th round grade, with no pick in the 4th you take him in the 3rd or wait and hope you get a 5th round target.  If any of you have played fantasy sports, you know what I am talking about.

I think the team sees a potential need for an interior lineman next year and felt it had to get on this year.  If Zinter was the next highest graded player at that position, just take him and regroup tomorrow.  It's not like a lot of the players we draft from this point forward will even make the team.

Uninspiring picks sometimes turn out to be the right pick.

I think he is here to replace Ika.  I think Schwartz said Ika can't play in his D.  Maybe Hall turns in to a MD Perry type player.

I seem to be in the minority.  Unless the Browns are on the clock, the draft is boring.

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

A  $4.6B  new enclosed stadium  on mean  ol' Lake Michigan ....  sweet.      

Face it in November, December  and  especially January I for one would  lo♥︎e  to be in a nice 68°  seasoned surroundings  versus a  7° with 25 mph winds blowing straight in off the lake for hours on end.

The players would agree with me  100%  guaranteed.   

No doubt.  Ony simpletons think you should be playing in the snow and slush.  I'd also bet most don't even go to games.

IMO if you don't attend 3-4 games a year, your opinion is moot.   

Big talkers who don't spend money.  Pfft.

It's easy to say what you want while sitting at home.  I go to games and live 600 miles away.

I saw where Roman just passed away.

R.I.P. Roman.

9 hours ago, Flugel said:

Yeah, who knows?  You might be right Ballpeen.  If you are right - the good news is a lot of productive college tackles (lacking arm length) get drafted to play OG creating a bigger supply of Guards (ie: Joel Bitonio was a Tackle in college) overall.  This also means we wouldn't have to draft one in round 2 in order to secure a good one.  Besides, we don't need immediate impact at OG with Bitonio and Teller so they can defer to a later round for a developmental guy.

Just thinking out loud here. I think we have more depth inside at this time than at LT. Michael Dunn can play LG extremely well; and I'm guessing he could do the same at RG if we needed him to (that's an easier transition from 1 side to the other than OT).  He helped us beat SF without Bitonio.  They just signed a backup RG Germain Ifedi (who would only play RT if both Conklin and Jones are injured). Luke Wypler will also be counted on to backup Center an OG spot. Right now, I don't think we have a backup LT on the roster that anyone would have a great deal of confidence in (unless I'm forgetting someone I shouldn't be).

There's been mentions and thoughts on our board about moving Dawand Jones to LT.  I've warmed up to this idea more than I thought I would.  However, trying this the 1st training camp after a serious knee injury that landed him on IR and a surgery table might not be the best time to try this.  Like Dutch reminds us, we're not having any luck keeping Conklin healthy so we'll probably see more of Jones than Conklin at RT again.

My guess is we'll go LT with our first pick in round 2 unless a run on the position depletes the supply of them too far to consider what's left for round 2 value.  Very possible this could happen. 

Stay tuned... 

 

Berry seems to draft a year ahead.  We may be deeper at guard today, maybe not so much next year.  We also have next year needs at DT.  We very well could go that way.

"Annie" opened on Broadway on this date in 1977.

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

I have to agree. I think we're begging for trouble pretending 1 more year of Casper the Friendly Ghost at Left Tackle helps this team in any way.  This was like 2022 when the Browns pretended DT wasn't important at all.  End result?  This team couldn't stop the run or keep offensive linemen off the LB Corps. In fact, we had portions of the 2022 season where the entire 1st string of LBers were injured because of it.

Yeah, Wills under contract but does that light his fanny or make him feel entitled 1 more time?  I don't see a lot of playoff teams that have their biggest weakness upfront at Left Tackle. There may be some exceptions to that - like the Browns at the expense of needing 5 different QBs. When Wills went on IR, the Browns won 4 of their last 5 games.  The only one they lost in that stretch was in Cincy.  That day, they rested a lot of valuable starters while starting Jeff Driskell at QB.

Unfortunately, none of this means they'll take a LT.  There's probably going to be a run on them before we draft in round 2.  We'll see what happens...

 

I'd say there is a higher probability we take an interior O-lineman before we would take a LT.  The only reason as I see it is there should be better guards on the board than LT prospects.

But, as you said, we will see what happens.  You never know who might or might no be there.