Flugel
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Posts posted by Flugel
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4 hours ago, Orion said:
^ Thank you.
I've said pretty much that, except I chose to Fine and not bench the player.
I thought about a fine too; but the only guy in the entire organization that makes more money than Watson is Jimmy Haslam. If you want to change/correct a bad habit on the field - I think we're better off empowering the coaching staff with its wealth of experience to handle it. The Browns hired Bill Musgrave as a Sr Offensive Assistant last year - he/Watson's position coach can provide safer alternatives when watching film with Watson and the offense. They don't necessarily have to start with benching Watson if he does it something like once in the 1st 2 games or so. If Watson starts blowing off the coaching points and initiates contact again - then you bench him for a series or a quarter or a half - all dependent on where they are with the situation. My guess is a competitive guy/QB would rather get fined than benched in a nationally televised game. Lucky for us, we're just fans so this isn't our responsibility.
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11 hours ago, mjp28 said:
Astute observations by Mr Flugs with some old time NFL FOOTBALL players and our current Cleveland BROWNS situatations.
Even though we always wish for our BROWNS to do well in every season and in every situation ..... well this might be a tough one.
Let's hope our very high priced current. QB DW can come close to finishing a complete season -AND- put up some BIG numbers -AND- get into the PLAYOFFS -AND- win some games.
Asking too much ?
Thanks MJP! A lot of Stefanski earning the NFL Coach of the Year honor stemmed from what he did without Watson (using 4 other QBs). For example, the Joe Flacco no other teams wanted in 2023 suddenly had other teams interested once he played for Stefanski. Having said that, in the last game we watched Watson play - he looked much more like the player we thought we traded for. The Rats didn't have a solution for him when he heated up and led us to a comeback win. Hopefully that was what we will be seeing on a more regular basis.
I think we have a very talented team on both sides of the ball like 11 wins reminded us. It can probably go even better if we can keep at least 1 of our 2 very talented Right Tackles healthy. I hope this isn't just wishful thinking; but I think we'll have even better depth this year.
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2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:
Well it definitely didn't work out in 2014 when Jimmy did it... and it was lukewarm at best when Dorsey did it with the #1 overall pick a few years later... so why not?
Maybe we can tank for one of the young Ohio State QBs coming down the pike? I can already see it Flugs...
PRAYIN' FOR JULIAN SAYIN!
or
THROWIN' UP A PRAYER FOR TAVIAN ST. CLAIR!
What has haunted this team is the absolute inability to: 1) draft the right QB in the NFL Draft; and 2) put the right people around the QB they do draft.
The last QB the Browns were successful drafting came out of the 1985 Supplemental Draft. Think back to how old you were when this happened. I was 21. The very next off-season, the Browns hired OC - Lindy Infante. They went from 8-8 behind Mack and Byner rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 to 12-4 with RBs combining for 117 receptions (Mack 28, Dickey 10, Byner 37, Fontenot 47) in 1986. Knowing defenses were chomping at the bits to stop Mack and Byner and blitz the cement shoed Kosar in year 2 - Infante chose to dictate the weekly chess matches. You want to zone blitz us? Ok, here's a little Herman Fontenot and Brian Brennan combining for 102 receptions almost exclusively on 3rd downs. Meanwhile, Byner and Mack could just as easily catch swing passes to the flats (which was fun to watch when that area of the defense was vacated by the designated zone blitzer). Talk about making life EASIER for a 2nd year QB - this was the best I've seen this team do in my lifetime.
When Jim Harbaugh went to play QB for the Colts, he credited Infante for being the best offensive coach he had tapping what he does best. I read an article where Harbaugh said he brought a lot of what Infante taught him to use with QBs he coached. He combined that with what he learned from other coaches but emphasized Infante's main principles for QBs eased and expedited the progressions.
All that to say, coaching has a profound impact on how well a QB develops as well as who you have protecting them. Watson is only going to turn 28 this year. QBs like Kurt Warner, Steve Young and Doug Williams didn't play their best football until after they were 28 years old. Rich Gannon, Brad Johnson, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Plunkett are other QBs that found more success in their later 20s/early 30s. I think I already shared in a previous thread the dreadful Terry Bradshaw's stats over his first 5-6 years he played; and got benched for guys like Terry Hanratty and Joe Gilliam. Sometimes it's needing more surrounding talent - other times it's the luck of having the right offensive mind assessing how to tweak his offense around the QB. The opposite of that is the square peg/round hole you alluded. FWIW, losing a 1st and 2nd string RT + whatever we continue to settle for at LT can lead to watching 5 different guys start at QB in 1 season. Any QB that confuses what he's here to do with thinking he's Larry Csonka initiating contact with LBers and DL - needs to be BENCHED by coaches or inevitable injury will do it for them. Coaching matters so it's a little disturbing to see them waiting until after Watson completed his 1st year here to start planning for the right system and adding coaches. Clemson and Houston were ready for Watson - can we honestly say the Browns were too?
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On 4/3/2024 at 7:08 PM, Vambo said:
About the Browns & contract extensions; Nick Chubb; Cade York & more – Terry Pluto - cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio - The last Browns coach/GM combination to receive a contract extension was Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage.
It was right after the Halley’s Comet season of 2007. I call it that because it came out of nowhere. Led by Derek Anderson, the Browns finished 10-6.In the first two years of the Crennel/Savage regime, the Browns were 6-10 and 4-12. They needed a big season in 2007 to keep their jobs, and along came Anderson and the 10-6 record. That led to contract extensions for Crennel, Savage and several key assistant coaches including Rob Chudzinski.Then came 2008 … injuries … back to 4-12, like 2006. All the key people were fired, and owner Randy Lerner brought in Eric Mangini to run everything. Crennel/Savage lasted four years. Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam are working on contract extensions for GM Andrew Berry and coach Kevin Stefanski. They have been together for four years. The way they worked together in 2023 was impressive, because things could have collapsed after Nick Chubb and Deshaun Watson went down for the season. Chubb played three quarters. Watson played only five full games. Berry and Stefanski are entering the final year of the contracts they signed in 2020. That’s the reason for the extensions, along with rewarding them for a good job. Since Berry and Stefanski arrived, the whisper of “internal discord” and other in-fighting on the Browns ended. I’m sure they’ve had their disputes. But they don’t go public and point fingers of blame at each other. That’s critical to building success and dealing with adversity. Until they arrived, the Browns were known for the feuds within the building and power struggles. It’s a relief to see the operation run professionally.
BEING REAL ABOUT RUNNING BACKS
The Browns keep adding running backs, and that’s smart. They signed veteran D’Onta Foreman. I’ve always liked him in terms of being a solid back. He joins Jerome Ford and Pierre Strong from last season. Yes, the Browns also signed Nyheim Hines, but he’s mostly a special teams guy and perhaps a running back who can catch passes. What about Nick Chubb? The Browns are encouraged about his progress, but not wanting to put any timetable on his return. “Call it three months,” Berry told cleveland.com’s Mary Kay Cabot and a few other media members at the owners meetings. “That will be pretty telling in terms of his potential readiness for early in the season. We’re going to be conservative in terms of our approach in our assessment with building the roster because he’s coming off of a major knee injury.” It’s doubtful most people know exactly what Chubb is facing. He injured his knee in the second quarter of a Sept. 18, 2023, loss in Pittsburgh. That led to surgery to repair the MCL in September.
But there also was damage to the ACL in the same knee. That led to another operation – on Nov. 14, 2023. The original plan was for two surgeries because of the severity of the knee injury. Making it more complicated, Chubb suffered a major injury to the same knee in 2015 while playing at Georgia. “He had torn the PCL (posterior cruciate ligament), MCL (medial collateral) and LCL (lateral collateral) in an instant,” wrote NFL.com’s Chase Goodbread about Chubb’s Georgia injury. “There was cartilage damage as well. Yet somehow, his ACL -- the ligament that typically results in a season-ender when torn -- was intact. That there were three torn ligaments made Chubb’s injury very serious; that the ACL wasn’t torn made it very unique.” But this time, he also ripped the ACL. The Browns are simply being smart. The more respectable running backs, the better. It also allows Chubb to not rush the process.
THEN THERE’S QUARTERBACKS
The Browns sound very upbeat about Deshaun Watson’s progress from shoulder surgery. He has started throwing. Watson had surgery on Nov. 21, 2023 to repair his fractured right shoulder socket. It’s not a common injury for a quarterback. It’s to fine to project he’ll play well and be healthy at least for most season. ut the wise move is to have QBs. Lots of QBs. That’s why Berry quickly signed veteran Jameis Winston as the primary backup. Then he was surprised and pleased to see former Ravens QB Tyler Huntley available. Berry said this to the media at the owners meetings about Huntley: “Quarterback’s the most important position. We wouldn’t stop acquiring offensive or defensive linemen. We wouldn’t do the same at quarterback.” The 30-year-old Winston has started 80 NFL games. Huntley has started nine. The Browns also have Dorian Thompson-Robinson (DTR), who started three games last season. After going through five different QBs last season, this is a wise approach. It’s OK to hope for the best-case scenario when it comes to Watson and Chubb. But the Browns have to be realistic and plan for the worst.
HOW ABOUT KICKERS?
The same philosophy holds when it comes to finding someone behind Dustin Hopkins. The main reason the Chargers were willing to trade Hopkins to the Browns at the end of the 2023 training camp was his history of injuries, especially hamstrings.Hopkins played only five games for the Chargers in 2022. He made it through 15 games for the Browns in 2023 before hurting his hamstring again.
SIDENOTE: I do wish kickers and QBs would stop trying to act like football players and make tackles. That’s how Baker Mayfield hurt his shoulder with the Browns in 2021. Hopkins was chasing a return man when he pulled his hamstring. Anyway, Hopkins is back … and so is Cade York, the kicker he replaced.
The fact that York was cut by Cleveland, and then by the Giants and Titans doesn’t bother me. Phil Dawson was cut three times before finally making the Browns in 1999.Hopkins was cut by Buffalo, New Orleans and Washington during his career. Most kickers – even good ones – are cut at least once early in their careers.
York is there for protection on the practice squad, and maybe he’ll figure it out.
If we want a place kicker 31 other teams wouldn't even consider signing from our practice squad - York is perfect. Let's just hope we never have to use him. We can probably sign Anthony Schwartz too if we want to stick with this mentality/philosophy.
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4 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:
Ironically enough, Flacco IMO fits Stefanski better than RPO QBs do.
I've already heard the "just wait until you see this new offense" noise again... I remember hearing the same thing prior to and during training camp last year, but during the season it just seems like Stefanski and RPO is a round peg/square hole situation.
It's one of the reasons I have serious doubts we'll ever see the 2018-2020 Watson here.
Can we let Dee Haslam pick the QB next time?
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5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:
Ah, so that's where our 4th rounder went this year. Well at least it was later 4th round since we had a winning season.
Do you think Houston would trade CJ Stroud for Cheesecakes Mayfield? 😁
Neither do I...
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3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:
Now we're re-posting the same links Comrade Cal?
Bold move, Cotton.
I've only seen this post from him about 8 times.
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5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:
Who can forget ole slow footed, overeating fat Baker and his "my commercials make me more money than my Browns do so fuck you" Soph lose the job season? Me, that's who.😁 Because I don't have selected a forget all he's done wrong stormy memory like some BB members seem to have.
Here's the thing, when a QB is drafted 1st overall - there's an expectation that was higher than he achieved. Pittsburgh drafted Kenny Pickett 22nd overall; and that fanbase wasn't exactly patient with him.
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15 hours ago, Vagitron said:
The Browns should have let baker Mayfield heal. Don't trot the dude out there that season with his body all fucked up even if he wanted to be on the field. You'd still have the guy you drafted and all that draft capital. I will forever say the Browns did not try to help baker. Haslam saw Watson come available and threw the bank at him. It will always be a stupid trade unless Watson starts walking on water because to this point it sure as hell seems like he's just cool with getting his money.
I don't want to brag; but I made it all the way to the 1st period above without crying.
I gotta disagree with you about not trying to help Baker though. The FO brought Jarvis Landry here and he helped a ton. Then, they added Pro Bowl WR OBJ. Those were efforts. They also added FA Tackle Jack Conklin at RT with a big contract. The guy just hasn't been able to stay healthy. The year he did, the Browns scored 48 points in the playoffs at Pittsburgh. That same year, they drafted a LT 10th overall. They also had 2 very talent OGs here with Bitonio and Teller.
After a very promising rookie year; Baker spent a lot of his 1st off-season doing countless commercials, getting married/honeymooning, and chugging beers in public at Tribe games. I think we can all agree he was distracted; and the inevitable sophomore slump followed.
I wanted us to draft Baker; but every good year was followed by a bad year. That was quite the bi-polar coaster.
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33 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:
You gotta earn the 'H' here, friend.
That's a keeper!
That's what they said to the poor guy in Rome that tried to replace Julius Caesar. They called him Mark Antony until the day he died...
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12 hours ago, tiamat63 said:
I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
When we draft guys - we need to project them into the division the Browns reside in. For example, nobody holds more than Joey Porter Jr (not even Emerson). When they flag him - it's usually early on in the game so they don't have to do it the rest of the day. Looks like Jamari needs to show the coaching staff he can catch the ball when he's well covered with a corner on his hip. That's showing up in a lot of scouting reports I'm seeing. I like Tia's point above about wanting to see how he responds to press coverage and physical corners. Not everybody can do this kind of thing. That's why a change of direction kind of guy would fit nicely somewhere on our perimeter. Back when we had Eric Metcalf, we were the ONLY team had no clue how good this guy would be lining up on the perimeter in space. For his next 2-3 teams, he excelled as Wide Receiver/Flanker/Slot and everything that didn't ask him to be Eric up the middle any more. Brian Brennan wasn't bad at change of direction either on that 86 team with 12 wins.
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1 hour ago, LondonBrown said:
Onto the UDFA's and there is only one worth posting about as someone that may have a chance
Really appreciate you sharing all these draft profiles!!!
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1 hour ago, LondonBrown said:
OT Rank #16. JAVION COHEN | Miami 6043 | 324 lbs. | 4SR Phenix City, Ala. (Central) 8/8/2002 (age 21.71)
SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Miami After two seasons as a starter for Saban at Alabama, he transferred to Coral Gables and played well in 2023 for an offensive line that had the same starting five for all 12 regular-season games (he credits Hurricanes offensive line coach Alex Mirabal for “changing his career”).
That summary shows us 3 years of starting between 2 good to great football programs. Why not? Depth at LT was a gigantic concern...
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2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:
If was to come in and say "Yes dear" to something you really could not hear from another room.😁🙉
Thatta boy!
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41 minutes ago, Flugel said:
Here's some highlights of our last pick in the draft. Before we make too much of these - we're not going to be seeing any plays he wished he could do over here. Here's a Wikipedia write-up about him:
Briggs started the first game of his true freshman season at Virginia in 2019, becoming the first freshman on the defensive line to start for the team in the opener since 1986.[9] He ended the season with 19 tackles and a sack and was named a mid-season Freshman All-American.[10] He then appeared in seven games in 2020, after having played in 13 in his first year.[11] He entered the NCAA transfer portal and transferred to the Cincinnati Bearcats in 2021.[12] He ended with 39 tackles, seven tackles-for-loss (TFLs) and four sacks in his two seasons at Virginia.[13]
In his first year at Cincinnati, 2021, Briggs totaled 43 tackles along with four TFLs and three sacks while appearing in all 14 games.[3] The following season, he recorded 60 tackles and 4.5 TFLs and was named a first-team All-American Athletic Conference (AAC) selection.[14] He returned for a final season in 2023 and was a team captain and honorable mention All-AAC choice while recording 27 tackles in 12 starts.[13] He finished his time at Cincinnati with 130 tackles, 14.5 TFLs and eight sacks and earned invites to the Hula Bowl and East–West Shrine Bowl.[15][16][17]
The 4th play from the end of this video was my fave. Check out the lead blocker. I think he woke up on Gilligan's Island...
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10 minutes ago, gumby73 said:
Thanks Flugel ! We can always, tag team as The Grumpy Old Men of the BB 🤩
Browns currently have 89 players under contract (after the draft picks & UDFAs sign) with a maximum of 90 players allowed during the offseason.
1 player short of tagging this as a 2024 beginning camp roster... BuT,
The media won't be giving this roster any C grades ^^
The draft run on TE's started in the 4th round (no pick)
Below is a 6th round graded UDFA TE coming to C-Land. Watched what i could find on plane ride home 👀
TE Treyton Welch, Wyoming - We got a dawg-fight for TE3 going into camp
Had a great road trip to hometown OH-_ _ !
😆 Glad to hear you had a great road trip. Good work with the pre-season depth chart. As for TE Treyton Welch - it was pretty easy to see why his teammates voted him a Captain.
It's nice to have the amount of talent on-board to the extent we're just balancing the depth throughout. Given that we lost both RTs and our LT to injury last year - that might be our biggest challenge ahead. Ifedi is more of a Guard and didn't play a down last year and he could play RT in a crunch. LT kind of scares me; but there may be some opportunities to improve our depth there before the regular season kicks off. We shall see...
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18 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:
As a solidly over the hill gang member with 54+ years married, I can truthfully say that the words they want to hear regularly even more than the 3 are, "Yes dear." And you damn sure better be good at faking it or they get you anyway.💃🪄🥲
Indeed! Those are the 1st 2 words after "I do" in bold up top. Having said that when you're married 30 years - the frequency of using them can lessen. By then, we have all we can do to remember why we just walked into the kitchen.
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Here's some highlights of our last pick in the draft. Before we make too much of these - we're not going to be seeing any plays he wished he could do over here. Here's a Wikipedia write-up about him:
Briggs started the first game of his true freshman season at Virginia in 2019, becoming the first freshman on the defensive line to start for the team in the opener since 1986.[9] He ended the season with 19 tackles and a sack and was named a mid-season Freshman All-American.[10] He then appeared in seven games in 2020, after having played in 13 in his first year.[11] He entered the NCAA transfer portal and transferred to the Cincinnati Bearcats in 2021.[12] He ended with 39 tackles, seven tackles-for-loss (TFLs) and four sacks in his two seasons at Virginia.[13]
In his first year at Cincinnati, 2021, Briggs totaled 43 tackles along with four TFLs and three sacks while appearing in all 14 games.[3] The following season, he recorded 60 tackles and 4.5 TFLs and was named a first-team All-American Athletic Conference (AAC) selection.[14] He returned for a final season in 2023 and was a team captain and honorable mention All-AAC choice while recording 27 tackles in 12 starts.[13] He finished his time at Cincinnati with 130 tackles, 14.5 TFLs and eight sacks and earned invites to the Hula Bowl and East–West Shrine Bowl.[15][16][17]
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11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:
But.... but... but... wE'vE bEEn Set bAcK tEN yeArS! 🤣
Yeah, those 11 wins last year clobbered our entire fanbase.
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On 4/27/2024 at 12:21 PM, Dutch Oven said:
Hall is a far more athletic DTackle.
Togiai was a super strong fire hydrant of a DTackle whose ceiling tapped out in college football.
At worst, I think Hall is great depth guy inside. Obviously, you don't draft a guy in Round 2 to be just that, but I'd be surprised if he flamed out as quickly as TT did.
Togiai was fast-twitchies-free.
Hall was born with fast twitchies. My guess is we'll see him used in a lot of 1 gap, upfield penetration
Ika? He's stuck on pause in handicapped parking. That said, he's only been here 1 year. He's Polynesian so you know he bench presses Ford Rangers when he's not snacking between snacks. He's clearly a 2-Gapper.
Then we have Tomlinson, Hurst, Hill all returning.
There's also the Rookie from Cincy.
I think we're ready. Wait til Jimmy sees the food bill during training camp.
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1 hour ago, gumby73 said:
Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today 🎂 I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? 😤)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your 🎂 off)
Later studs !
Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Wait til you see the film clip Syd shared about our last draft pick. Football Wood Factor: Balsa to Sequoia.
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On 4/26/2024 at 10:43 PM, MLD Woody said:
Let's goooo
Once he's back to 100% Zinter can be a staple at guard for years to come.
(I wonder if Corum and Wilson going right before affected that pick at all for us)
The video conference in the Day 1 Thread with Zinter and Hall side by side was entertaining to see the respect each new teammate has for the other. The pleasant surprise of that is Zinter saying he's ready to go for the spring practices. He's been told the fractures are healed and he's been cleared to practice. It sure sounded like it's without restrictions. Zinter also indicated, he was cross trained to play Center at Michigan if their Center couldn't answer the bell.
Zinter is a GREAT kid now...
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1 minute ago, Flugel said:
🤣 In this version of The Longest Yard - the Prison Guards were busted for stealing signs. You don't say... Stay tuned? Why not????
Oh yeah, recruiting is projected to resume again in 2025...
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On 4/25/2024 at 8:37 AM, Canton Dawg said:
Damn…even Florida fans are making fun of Michigan.
🤣 In this version of The Longest Yard - the Prison Guards were busted for stealing signs. You don't say... Stay tuned? Why not????
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Finally....done with the horrble DW deal!!!!
in THE BROWNS BOARD
Posted
I don't care if they have to do cartwheels wearing fanny floss as long as they get him sliding or trying to avoid contact.