Felons voting illegally may have put Franken over the top

[calfoxwc]

<H1 class=section-title>The next two elections will be a worse fiascoes I fear...

***************************

U.S. Senate</H1><H2 id=article-title class=entry-title>Felons Voting Illegally May Have Put Franken Over the Top in Minnesota, Study Finds</H2>By Ed Barnes

 

Published July 12, 2010

 

| FoxNews.com

 

A study finds that at least 341 convicted felons voted illegally in the election that made former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken a U.S. senator in 2008.

 

 

 

The six-month election recount that turned former "Saturday Night Live" comedian Al Franken into a U.S. senator may have been decided by convicted felons who voted illegally in Minnesota's Twin Cities.

 

That's the finding of an 18-month study conducted by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group, which found that at least 341 convicted felons in largely Democratic Minneapolis-St. Paul voted illegally in the 2008 Senate race between Franken, a Democrat, and his Republican opponent, then-incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman.

 

The final recount vote in the race, determined six months after Election Day, showed Franken beat Coleman by 312 votes -- fewer votes than the number of felons whose illegal ballots were counted, according to Minnesota Majority's newly released study, which matched publicly available conviction lists with voting records.

 

Furthermore, the report charges that efforts to get state and federal authorities to act on its findings have been "stonewalled."

 

"We aren't trying to change the result of the last election. That legally can't be done," said Dan McGrath, Minnesota Majority's executive director. "We are just trying to make sure the integrity of the next election isn't compromised."

 

He said his group was largely ignored when it turned over a list of hundreds of names to prosecutors in two of the state's largest counties, Ramsey and Hennepin, where fraud seemed to be the greatest.

 

A spokesman for both county attorneys' offices belittled the information, saying it was "just plain wrong" and full of errors, which prompted the group to go back and start an in-depth look at the records.

 

"What we did this time is irrefutable," McGrath said. "We took the voting lists and matched them with conviction lists and then went back to the records and found the roster lists, where voters sign in before walking to the voting booth, and matched them by hand.

 

"The only way we can be wrong is if someone with the same first, middle and last names, same year of birth as the felon, and living in the same community, has voted. And that isn't very likely."

 

The report said that in Hennepin County, which in includes Minneapolis, 899 suspected felons had been matched on the county's voting records, and the review showed 289 voters were conclusively matched to felon records. The report says only three people in the county have been charged with voter fraud so far.

 

A representative of the Hennepin County attorney's office, who declined to give her name, said "there was no one in the office today to talk about the charges."

 

But the report got a far different review in Ramsey County, which contains St. Paul. Phil Carruthers of the Ramsey County attorney's office said his agency had taken the charges "very seriously" and found that the Minnesota Majority "had done a good job in their review."

 

The report says that in Ramsey, 460 names on voting records were matched with felon lists, and a further review found 52 were conclusive matches.

 

Carruthers attributed differences in the numbers to Minnesota Majority's lack of access to nonpublic information, such as exact birth dates and other court records. For example, he said, "public records might show a felon was given 10 years probation, but internal records the county attorney has might show that the probation period was cut to five and the felon was eligible to vote."

 

Carruthers said Ramsey County is still investigating all the names and has asked that 15 investigators be hired to complete the process. "So far we have charged 28 people with felonies, have 17 more under review and have 182 cases still open," he said. "And there is a good chance we may match or even exceed their numbers."

 

McGrath says the report shows that more still has to be done.

 

"Prosecutors have to act more swiftly in prosecuting cases from the 2008 election to deter fraud in the future," he said, "and the state has to make sure that existing system, that flags convicted felons so voting officials can challenge them at the ballot, is effective. In 90 percent of the cases we looked at, the felons weren't flagged."

 

"If the state had done that," he said, "things might be very different today."

 

 

[Westside Steve]

Criminals trend Democratic? ???

What a shock.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

First of all, this study has already been poked full of holes:

 

"We received about 480 names from Minnesota Majority," Ramsey County's lead prosecutor Phil Carruthers told KARE Wednesday, "About 270 were clearly inaccurate and were rejected right from the get-go."

 

He said a quick review revealed the names and birthdates didn't match, or that the felons in question were no longer barred from voting.

 

Beyond that, even if you assume Minnesota Majority has their information right - and they clearly do not - how do you know who these supposed felons voted for? Somehow Steve does. Criminals trend Democratic! It's not even something you have to prove. You can just say it and scoff, as if everyone already knows this.

 

Good to see you two clowns let this story fit right into your old, ridiculous, tired opinions, and then ran with it.

 

Keep enjoying your summer...

[Westside Steve]

how do you know who these supposed felons voted for? Somehow Steve does. Criminals trend Democratic! It's not even something you have to prove. You can just say it and scoff, as if everyone already knows this.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/07/12/john-lott-senator-al-franken-minnesota-felons-democrat/

 

 

And as always you're welcome to show us all the truth.

But....

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Oh, how I was enjoying my summer without your nonsense.

 

This is like saying militia members, or the people who target abortion clinics and doctors, trend Republican. You know who else trends Republican? People who have sex with farm animals. It's another ridiculous use of your logical fallacies in order to smear an entire party and tie them to criminal behavior. You could easily play this game with both parties if you were dumb enough to think it meant something.

 

You could have a felony DUI conviction. You could get in a fight outside a bar and get a felony assault. You could get caught with a pot at a concert and become a "felon." I believe you've even admitted in the past to driving while over the legal limit, and could be a "felon" had you been caught. That doesn't tell us anything about how you or any other "felon" would vote.

 

These people don't trend Democratic because they're "felons." Their voting behavior would best be predicted by a number of other factors before you get to whether or not you committed a felony in the past.

 

But you like the simpler, Fox News version because it fits into your world view. Because you're not that smart.

 

But don't let me get in the way of a discussion about felons and illegals and the New Black Panther Party being the only reason Democrats win elections by 8 million votes, or a few hundred. I'm sure all of Norm Coleman's high-priced attorneys could have benefitted from this right-wing outlet's brilliant "felons tipped the election for Franken" story that seems to have stood up for all of 3-4 hours before being laughed at by people who have the correct number of chromosomes. Yes, I'm sure the Coleman legal team, and the legal team of the Republican Party, who spent months contesting this election, while fighting over the legitimacy of every single vote, forgot to check the rolls for felons who shouldn't have been allowed to vote. Sounds likely.

 

Enjoy your summer. And watch out for all those illiterate inner city criminal Democrats on welfare.

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

typical.

 

Alo and Heck don;t have the honesty to admit dems and Obamao are failing very dramatically.

 

But they lurk for the chance to negate a story IF they can, and once again ridicule those they disagree with.

 

NAILED

[Westside Steve]

Oh, how I was enjoying my summer without your nonsense.

 

This is like saying militia members, or the people who target abortion clinics and doctors, trend Republican.

 

And I'd be honest and agree with you Heck.

I'd also bet that if there were enough to tip the election Coleman woulda looked the other way.

 

I don't know why you (and VT) feel you need to pretend when it comes to these matters.

 

It'd be like when you warned us that Mormons voted almost exclusively for Romney if I'd thown a fit and said it wasn't true.

 

 

"Enjoy your summer. And watch out for all those illiterate inner city criminal Democrats on welfare. "

 

Too hot for my taste. But glad you're enjoying the summer.

What do you do,; travel?

{Let me guess East LA? South Bronx? Cabrini Green? )

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

But see, this is the kind of thing you don't get. You don't see qualitative differences, just like in the burqa post where you listed some public/government displays of religion right next to private displays of religion and didn't seem to know why those two things are treated entirely differently by our Constitution and our laws.

 

In this case, yes, religion affects how people vote, and it's perfectly appropriate to say that Mormons trend strongly Republican. Race affects how people vote, and obviously blacks and hispanics trend Democratic. Income levels. Region. Urban vs. rural. Education levels. There are lots of things that determine how people vote.

 

But there's really nothing about being convicted of a felony that makes you vote a certain way. There's no pro-larceny party, or pro-domestic violence party. There's no Felon PAC, advocating for the issues of convicted felons. Felons don't have issues particular to felons. So it's just nonsense to frame voting behavior that way. Those votes are obviously determined by other factors, like the ones listed above.

 

I'm sure we could find that meth users trend Republican. Why? Because meth is a mostly rural drug, and rural areas trend Republican for a number of reasons. It's not the meth that makes them want to vote for Sarah Palin.

 

Although it probably helps.

 

As for the idea that if there were enough votes to tip the election for Coleman that he would have just looked the other way ...are you high? That's the whole point of these recounts. They look for every voting inconsistency they can possibly find to challenge the result. They didn't have the votes, and they knew it. So they relented.

 

You actually imagine that this is a case of political correctness? Because we're so politically correct about felons who vote illegally? Even Republican Party attorneys tasked with winning a Senate seat that, at the time, would have left the Democrats one short of 60 votes?

 

Jesus, man. Turn off that Fox News.

 

And yes, summer is hot as balls here too. It was actually the hottest Jan-Jun period in New England's history. And globally, also the hottest Jan-Jun in recorded history.

 

I'm sure it's nothing. After all, it did snow in DC this winter.

 

[Westside Steve]

 

 

In this case, yes, religion affects how people vote, and it's perfectly appropriate to say that Mormons trend strongly Republican.

 

Mormons voted for Romney.

 

Race affects how people vote, and obviously blacks and hispanics trend Democratic. Income levels. Region. Urban vs. rural. Education levels. There are lots of things that determine how people vote.

 

Then why keep bitching about it??

 

But there's really nothing about being convicted of a felony that makes you vote a certain way. There's no pro-larceny party, or pro-domestic violence party. There's no Felon PAC, advocating for the issues of convicted felons. Felons don't have issues particular to felons.

 

Now who's high?

 

 

So it's just nonsense to frame voting behavior that way. Those votes are obviously determined by other factors, like the ones listed above.

 

Like trial lawyers.

 

I'm sure we could find that meth users trend Republican. Why? Because meth is a mostly rural drug, and rural areas trend Republican for a number of reasons. It's not the meth that makes them want to vote for Sarah Palin.

 

Could be. So what? Still I'd guess they vote Dem.

 

Although it probably helps.

 

As for the idea that if there were enough votes to tip the election for Coleman that he would have just looked the other way ...are you high?

 

Not at all. Is Franked trying to get whatever illegal votes cast for him removed? Or is he looking the other way? Remember in Florida the Dems tried to block the votes from the US military?

Wonder wehy that was?

 

That's the whole point of these recounts. They look for every voting inconsistency they can possibly find to challenge the result. They didn't have the votes, and they knew it. So they relented.

 

Yep.

And it helps to have your own guys in charge.

But hey I'm with ya there.

It shouldn't be so close as that can push you over.

Coleman lost.

Ironically in the state that voted in Jesse Ventura but....

Oh well.

 

You actually imagine that this is a case of political correctness? Because we're so politically correct about felons who vote illegally? Even Republican Party attorneys tasked with winning a Senate seat that, at the time, would have left the Democrats one short of 60 votes?

 

See above.

And yes I bet felons as a group tend Dem. So there.

 

Jesus, man. Turn off that Fox News.

 

Yeah yeah. I'll check the Huff.

 

And yes, summer is hot as balls here too. It was actually the hottest Jan-Jun period in New England's history. And globally, also the hottest Jan-Jun in recorded history.

 

Yep.

 

I'm sure it's nothing. After all, it did snow in DC this winter.

 

Heh. Not to worry. A nice hefty energy tax ought to cool it off.

 

Cheers

WSS

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Oh, I see what you're saying about Coleman looking the other way.

 

Point is, this study hasn't proven anything about people casting fraudulent votes for Franken, as the prosecutors point out, and yet you're still saying Franken is looking the other way about the fraudulent votes.

 

The premise that Franken needed fraudulent votes to win the election is false. He won by a very slim margin.

 

As for "bitching about it", I'm bitching about the popular Fox/wingnut meme that Democrat elections are all suspect, as if they require the votes of illegal aliens and felons, and that we "buy them off" with goodies. It's quite popular these days, and it's laughably false.

 

Just because you guys don't know any Democrats or liberals except the ones you see on Will and Grace, or that you think the base of the urban Democratic Party is comprised of illiterate criminals on welfare, it doesn't mean millions of liberals don't exist, and in every state. It just means you guys don't get out much.

 

And I have no idea why you pointed out that Mormons voted for Romney, a Republican, after I pointed out that Mormons trend Republican.

 

And if you'd like to enlighten me on the issues near and dear to the hearts of felons, that felons everywhere push for, be my guest.

 

Let's get back to summer.

[Westside Steve]

Oh, I see what you're saying about Coleman looking the other way.

 

Point is, this study hasn't proven anything about people casting fraudulent votes for Franken, as the prosecutors point out, and yet you're still saying Franken is looking the other way about the fraudulent votes.

 

The premise that Franken needed fraudulent votes to win the election is false. He won by a very slim margin.

 

As for "bitching about it", I'm bitching about the popular Fox/wingnut meme that Democrat elections are all suspect, as if they require the votes of illegal aliens and felons, and that we "buy them off" with goodies. It's quite popular these days, and it's laughably false.

 

Just because you guys don't know any Democrats or liberals except the ones you see on Will and Grace, or that you think the base of the urban Democratic Party is comprised of illiterate criminals on welfare, it doesn't mean millions of liberals don't exist, and in every state. It just means you guys don't get out much.

 

And I have no idea why you pointed out that Mormons voted for Romney, a Republican, after I pointed out that Mormons trend Republican.

 

Bexcause you changed the point of the original discussion.

You were the guy bellyaching that Mormons voted almost excusively for Romney.

(back when you were denying monolithic support for Obama)

You tried to shift it to "republican" so I called you on it.

That's all.

 

And if you'd like to enlighten me on the issues near and dear to the hearts of felons, that felons everywhere push for, be my guest.

 

LOL

Just ask yourself why trial lawyers vote Democrat. You might answer yourself.

 

Let's get back to summer.

 

Heh.

I hate summer Heck.

Too xxxxing hot.

I do like to work everyday but I wish it was in the Alps or somewhere.

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

Come on. We're not talking about trial lawyers.

 

Name me a felon-related issue that felons might vote for because it's pro-felon. That's what we're talking about here. By saying that felons trend Democratic, you're saying that felons see the Democrats as more friendly to felons, or that they're pro-felon, and that's why felons vote that way. Call it the "self-interested felon theory." And it's ridiculous. I hope you can see that.

 

I can think of drug sentencing and prison reform, but that doesn't even work because that's an issue raised by lots of people who aren't felons, and of both parties, and it's a very important one that isn't "pro-felon" anyway.

 

Do you really imagine there are convicted felons who say to themselves, "I'm going to vote illegally because Senator Al Franken is going to make it easier for me to commit arson and rape next time."

 

I mean, come on.

 

I can remember years ago reading (shoddy) analysis that claimed serial killers are more often conservatives or Republicans. This isn't analysis. It's lazy, and it's a smear.

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

And I still don't know what your point is about Romney. Mormons are a very solid Republican block. Utah is a very solid Republican state. Mormons, because of their beliefs, consistently vote Republican.

 

When we were talking about Romney, we were talking about Mormons voting for a Mormon Republican candidate for president. I believe 95% of them voted for Romney. I'm not sure any voting group, racial or religious, has voted that consistently for a candidate that I can recall.

 

And my point back then was that you kept harping on the fact that blacks voted so overwhelmingly for Obama. Forgetting, of course, that they voted overwhelmingly for Kerry, and overwhelmingly for Gore, and overwhelmingly for Clinton. Mormons also voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

 

You seem(ed) to have a problem with one and not the other. One is an example of blind faith and allegiance, and the other is ...not mentioned.

[Westside Steve]

I know it ain't the Huff but .....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug17.html

WSS

[Mr. T]

And I still don't know what your point is about Romney. Mormons are a very solid Republican block. Utah is a very solid Republican state. Mormons, because of their beliefs, consistently vote Republican.

 

When we were talking about Romney, we were talking about Mormons voting for a Mormon Republican candidate for president. I believe 95% of them voted for Romney. I'm not sure any voting group, racial or religious, has voted that consistently for a candidate that I can recall.

 

And my point back then was that you kept harping on the fact that blacks voted so overwhelmingly for Obama. Forgetting, of course, that they voted overwhelmingly for Kerry, and overwhelmingly for Gore, and overwhelmingly for Clinton. Mormons also voted overwhelmingly for Bush.

 

You seem(ed) to have a problem with one and not the other. One is an example of blind faith and allegiance, and the other is ...not mentioned.

 

 

People segregate themselves, there is nothing new about this. It just so happens some sectors seem to be be a little more intelligent and voted for Romney as they did for W.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I would agree with that editorial. And it makes my point, not yours - that the voting behavior of ex-felons is explained by other factors than the fact that they're ex-felons. And yet somehow I imagine you think it makes yours.

 

Or are you relenting on this one? Would be a welcome first.

 

[calfoxwc]

nailed hugely,,,,,,

[VaporTrail]

^^^Troll harder.

[calfoxwc]

i can;t even troll.

 

ow, whine. wince.

 

dammit.

[Westside Steve]

I would agree with that editorial. And it makes my point, not yours - that the voting behavior of ex-felons is explained by other factors than the fact that they're ex-felons. And yet somehow I imagine you think it makes yours.

 

Or are you relenting on this one? Would be a welcome first.

 

 

On;y pointing out the statement that the criminals would vote Democrat.

 

<< But last year Alabama Republican Party Chairman Marty Connors stated a bald truth: "As frank as I can be," he said, "we're opposed to [restoring voting rights] because felons don't tend to vote Republican." He is right: People with low incomes, low education or minority status -- all benchmarks of convict populations -- vote Democratic 65 to 90 percent of the time. >>

 

So what makes you a criminal also makes you a Democrat? Is that your point? OK.

As to the hand wringing over the idea that felons lose some "rights" that's for you to worry about I guess.

 

 

 

Oh and no shit. Yes I think a criminal would rightly believe he'd have an easier time of it if there were more Al Frankens and the SC justices they'd support in power.

 

 

Tell me you think they'd be tougher on crime.

WSS.

[heckofajobbrownie]

I'm just shaking my head. Clearly, your desire to say that felons trend Democratic outweighs any desire to understand why, even though it doesn't really have anything to do with their status as felons. (It even says so in the quote you keep posting.) So go ahead and say it, and believe that what these people are really voting for is more liberal Senators and liberal Supreme Court Justices in order to make committing their crimes easier.

 

Good to see you haven't gotten any smarter.

[melmartinez01]

how do you know who these supposed felons voted for?

[heckofajobbrownie]

We certainly don't in the Minnesota case, but you would have a pretty good idea if you knew where they came from. But again, this is assuming there are lots of fraudulent felon votes in the Minnesota case, and there aren't. This is just a poorly done study pushed by right-wing news outlets, and quickly absorbed by the dittoheads of the Republican base.

 

Steve just wants to say that Democrats are criminal coddlers, or criminals themselves. This is how he maintains his erections.

[calfoxwc]

truth is, that more Hispanics and blacks are in prisonsdue to subcultural learnings.

 

truth is, the vast majority of blacks identify with obamao racially, and culturrally buy into the black liberation theology.

 

so the dems have the huge upper hand getting that vote,

 

as well as cherry picking districts for voters being allowed to vote more than once.

 

it isnt who votes ...it's who counts the votes....

[heckofajobbrownie]

Wow.

[Mr. T]

how do you know who these supposed felons voted for?

 

 

Maybe they wrote in Castro

[Westside Steve]

I'm just shaking my head. Clearly, your desire to say that felons trend Democratic outweighs any desire to understand why, even though it doesn't really have anything to do with their status as felons. (It even says so in the quote you keep posting.) So go ahead and say it, and believe that what these people are really voting for is more liberal Senators and liberal Supreme Court Justices in order to make committing their crimes easier.

 

Good to see you haven't gotten any smarter.

 

One doesn't need to become smarter to deal with you Heck.

You're pretty predictable.

 

But it's good you finally admit that felons would trend Dem rather than bore me with denial.

 

As to the reasons why, I really don't care much.

I'll guess it's somebody else's fault right?

If you have a sermon in there preach on.

 

>>

Steve just wants to say that Democrats are criminal coddlers, or criminals themselves. This is how he maintains his erections. <<

 

If all we needed for boners was Democrat pro criminal politics Pfizer would be out of business.

 

 

WSS

[Alo]

Racism and spam in the same thread? I'm impressed.

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's just pretty amazing to walk you through, point by point, the thought process of why felons would trend Democratic, and how your statement doesn't really tell you anything because those votes are determined by other factors and not the fact that they're felons, then do it again, then watch you find an editorial that points out the same thing, and yet you still don't get what the point is. And everything you type shows me you don't get what the point is. Then you even admit you don't care what the point is. You just like saying felons trend Democratic. Which is as meaningless as saying Browns fans trend Republican. As if they vote Republican because they're Browns fans. It's really not that hard a concept to understand, and you don't get it.

 

You actually think felons trend Democratic because they're self-interested felons, their biggest issue of concern is their own crime, and the Democrats are "pro-criminal."

 

Yes, you need to be smarter than that, but aren't.

[VaporTrail]

I used to egg and TP people's houses in junior high school, now I vote Democrat. Correlation = Causation. Gaem. Set. Match. Checkmate, heck, checkmate.