Holmgren's Biggest Mistake

[Zombo]

This has turned into a good thread.

 

When the Browns didn't go after a free agent wideout I turned my disappointment into optimism that they had supreme faith in MoMass and that Robo was going to have a breakout year. So much for that thinking.

 

I think the thing with WRs is, you have to just keep drafting them.

 

We spent a #3 overall on Braylon and he only really gave us one great season, the rest was very disappointing. On the other hand the Saints tossed out a #7 on Marques Colston and he is the #1 receiver on a SB winning team.

 

I think MoMass is going to get better moving forward, and Evan Moore will become sort of a Dave Logan type- taking advantage of size mismatches on quicker corners. With Colt's accuracy a guy like that cam become invaluable. That leaves us still needing a true #1 guy though, and I hate to tell skippy, but it's not Charlton Mitchell. If the Jones kid from Bama is there when we draft that would be cool, I don't know what the veteran free agent market is going to look like ... but I would just keep drafting two Wrs a year until we have three we really like.

 

Zombo

[Canton Mike]

This has turned into a good thread.

 

When the Browns didn't go after a free agent wideout I turned my disappointment into optimism that they had supreme faith in MoMass and that Robo was going to have a breakout year. So much for that thinking.

 

I think the thing with WRs is, you have to just keep drafting them.

 

We spent a #3 overall on Braylon and he only really gave us one great season, the rest was very disappointing. On the other hand the Saints tossed out a #7 on Marques Colston and he is the #1 receiver on a SB winning team.

 

I think MoMass is going to get better moving forward, and Evan Moore will become sort of a Dave Logan type- taking advantage of size mismatches on quicker corners. With Colt's accuracy a guy like that cam become invaluable. That leaves us still needing a true #1 guy though, and I hate to tell skippy, but it's not Charlton Mitchell. If the Jones kid from Bama is there when we draft that would be cool, I don't know what the veteran free agent market is going to look like ... but I would just keep drafting two Wrs a year until we have three we really like.

 

Zombo

 

Funny you compare Dave Logan & Evan Moore....so do I. Logan was an absolute favorite of mine, & I also believe Moore could fill that type role.

Mike

 

[choco]

Nobody thought we were good at WR, including every draft guru on earth. We were regularly ranked 32nd at the position by ESPN and the like. I expected us to sign a free agent and then draft Shipley, Sanders, or Price.

Wr was certainly a concern, but we're a ground and pound team. Ur still caught up with this being a passing league, which it is. But without a marquee qb and receivers you will go nowhere. Balance is key.....good running teams with average or better qbs are tearing it up this year.....the pats being the exception. Think the jets are 1st because of Sanchez arm? What'd we do to the saints when they had zero running game? Moss sure has elevated his last 2 teams with his ability to stretch the field. Point being, ur way is NOT the one and only way....

 

We decided to give our youth a chance to step up....which hasn't happened. So we have a direction to move in the offseason. You expected alot of things shep.....most if not all never come close to being reality. If you could apply an eyeball test rather than take the talking heads opinions as fact, perhaps you could make a correct prediction from time to time. Keep clinging to Rogers as your only success. But your incessant claims that you know what your talking about is why no one wants you on their board. Your a master in your own mind only shep ....no one else's.

 

 

[Gips]

In my book holmgren hasnt made any mistakes yet but his mangini/dabs honeymoon is over and next season begins a new slate and then lets see if he makes mistakes and how bad they are, because next year all of his decisions will prove to be right or will come back to bite him and perhaps even taint his HOF legacy...

[ClevelandFanForLife]

We told him? What GM do you know of that makes decisions solely based on what the fans tell him? That's a great way to get fired.

[Frenchie]

We told him? What GM do you know of that makes decisions solely based on what the fans tell him? That's a great way to get fired.

 

That's not what I meant ... and you know it. I was just giving kudos to the board and their prediction that without an FA signing at WR, we would not have the skills there that we needed to win consistently. And they were 100% right. And despite all the comments on this string, I think it was an area that Holgrem should have (and could have) addressed in FA. We're 4-7 now. Could the outtcomes of two games been changed with a quality WR? No one knows. If yes, we could be 6-5 and a totally different picture. Having a legit #1 with MoMass at #2 might would have significantly impacted the offence.

 

I will admit that there is some logic to FA's not wanting to sign with a "bottom dweller" and to the idea that the draft pool is stronger for WR this year. There is also some logic that they wanted to comprehend the QB situation and style of offence before making decisions on WR. But IMHO, there was no logic in assuming that MoMass and RoBo would be an acceptable #1 & #2 nor that you can't fix everything in one year. You can't upgrade all areas in one year but you can address the urgent, uncompetitive areas in one year. To me, that was QB, D-Secondary, Rights side of the O-line and WR. Remember, we thought we had a stud RB already. FA+Draft(x1) for QB's, Fa+Draft(x3) for D-Secondary, Draft(x1) (for O-line) and nothing for WR.

 

NB: my memory on the 2010 draft / FA may not be 100% accurate but you get the picture. WR wasn't addressed. Perhaps they tried but things didn't pan out. All I'm saying is that it was a mistake. As someone said, you need a balanced offence. We don't have one. Next year, we probably will and perhaps someone will start a thread reflecting on this discussion entitled "Wow, what a difference quality WR's make!".

[shepwrite]

Wr was certainly a concern, but we're a ground and pound team. Ur still caught up with this being a passing league, which it is. But without a marquee qb and receivers you will go nowhere. Balance is key.....good running teams with average or better qbs are tearing it up this year.....the pats being the exception. Think the jets are 1st because of Sanchez arm? What'd we do to the saints when they had zero running game? Moss sure has elevated his last 2 teams with his ability to stretch the field. Point being, ur way is NOT the one and only way....

 

We decided to give our youth a chance to step up....which hasn't happened. So we have a direction to move in the offseason. You expected alot of things shep.....most if not all never come close to being reality. If you could apply an eyeball test rather than take the talking heads opinions as fact, perhaps you could make a correct prediction from time to time. Keep clinging to Rogers as your only success. But your incessant claims that you know what your talking about is why no one wants you on their board. Your a master in your own mind only shep ....no one else's.

 

Dude, what are you doing? Why the unprovoked douchery? C'mon. Get it together. You say Delhomme sucking is the only thing I got right? Or did you say Sanchez? Or Rodgers? Or our lack of WRs? I don't have the time to sift through the nastiness, so just tell me which one was the only one.

 

But kidding aside... we don't need to act like that to each other. It's not cool at all. We're all over 14 and most of us aren't girls.

[longhorn]

He tosses out 3 QB's and brings in three others. He stacks the RB position, solidifies the O-Line and the D-secondary through the draft and FA. But he leaves the WR position to largely young, untested talent. Who needed Owens more, Cinci or the Browns? There was other talent available in FA. I'm surprised he let the team go into the season so weak at that position. And for those that say you can't do it all in one season, I say why not? Look at KC this year? And there was plenty of time to sign a #1 WR. Could have been a season changer as far as I'm concerned. Your opinion?

 

 

No one expected TO's new meds to work so well this year.

 

He's near the end of his career and has, in the past, carried a LOT of baggage.

[Alo]

Yep, the Browns should have added a WR, but there were only so many things the team could fix in the offseason.

 

Case in point: Heckert said that Dexter McCluster was one of the team's top targets at pick #38. McCluster would have been a very good addition, but the Browns lost out on him and got TJ Ward instead. And I think most of us are glad it worked out that way.

 

Also, keep in mind that while the FO didn't address the WR position, they did add new receiving targets to the offense. The Ben Watson signing has turned out better than many of us (including me) expected, and the team added two backs who are very good receivers out of the backfield in Hillis & Hardesty.

 

Hillis is leading the team in catches, and had Hardesty not gotten hurt, we may have seen Peyton used more creatively in the passing game. Back in Denver, Shanahan mused about using Hillis in an h-back/tight end role. And Hardesty used to split out wide in Tennessee's offense: he made 1st round corner Kareem Jackson look bad in last year's Bama game.

 

All of these additions will complement nicely the receiver(s) we bring in this coming offseason.

[ballpeen]

If we did take a receiver....when people say take a receiver, i assume fairly early and aren't talking about loading up on 6th rounder....which of Haden, Ward, or McCoy should we have left on the board??

 

The point is you can't do everything with one draft. If we are going to talk about mistakes, lets wait until we have had 2-3 drafts.

 

 

I also agree about FA.....it's fine and dandy to go after them, but they have to be willing to come to town.

 

last year we had a pretty bleak record, a coach on the rocks, and a stable of QB's that would make people laugh.

 

 

This year is a different story. Let's see what happens between now and the start of next season.

[shepwrite]

Peen, I think the Browns could've drafted a WR in round 3-ish, like Shipley, Sanders, or Price. I also think we could've opened up the coffers for a free agent. But we didn't... and in the long run, it'll be okay.

[ballpeen]

Peen, I think the Browns could've drafted a WR in round 3-ish, like Shipley, Sanders, or Price. I also think we could've opened up the coffers for a free agent. But we didn't... and in the long run, it'll be okay.

 

 

I guess we could have. I don't remember all the picks and what round, or what rounds provided extra picks, but as you said, in the end I trust it is all going to work out.

 

I am pretty big on drafting BPA and not drafting for "needs", but I would be shocked if one of our first two selections in the draft didn't supply a receiver....assuming we don't snag a top FA which might alter things a bit.

 

At this point I really haven't looked in to what receivers might become available after the season..

 

[Alo]

Of the eight receivers drafted in the 3rd round, only one has more than 25 receptions (Shipley). Watson, Stuckey, and Massaquoi all have caught more passes than the rest of the bunch.

 

Adding a 3rd round WR to the stable would have been nice, but it wouldn't necessarily have had much of an impact on this season. Taylor Price hasn't been active for any games, and while Emmanuel Sanders has made some plays, he also dropped a potential game-winning TD pass yesterday.

 

Colt's made a bigger impact than the 3rd round wideouts. And after the Hardesty trade, our only shot at one of these WRs would have been if we passed on Freckles. I'm glad we didn't.

[shepwrite]

I think we could've done a lot more with either Shipley or Price, given the opportunity here, but I certainly wouldn't give back Freckles.

 

It's a losing game and always more complicated than it seems (revisionist drafting), but I do think the Browns could've added a more serious WR in the offseason. We'll certainly do it now, which might be better in the long run than if we'd stood pat.

[Unsympathetic]

Julio Jones should not be drafted in the first round. He has had injuries every single year, including a broken hand in October and a knee injury this past weekend. Given the issues with Hardesty, I cannot see the Browns rolling the dice with him.

 

I'd go with Baldwin or Floyd if we can't get Green. Broyles is MoMass.