hoorta Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 NEW ORLEANS WON THE SUPER BOWL TWO YEARS AGO WITH THREE UNDRATED FREE AGENTS STARTING ON THE OLINE Yeah, and the Packers won the Super Bowl with Bulaga and then drafted Sherrod (both first round picks) playing OL. Now will you finally give it a rest? And don't start your crap the Packers are loaded with skill players either- Driver is 36, Jennings is 28- 50 cents if you can name their starting RB without looking. Think by your flawed logic just maybe they should have gone for a WR or RB instead of a LT? Sorry to tell you buttheads, they didn't. Yup, the exception proves the rule Rich. Just keep on believing it. NFL GMs sure as hell don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Who said sacks allowed is the only way of measuring offensive line success?! Teams that throw the ball a lot are much more likely to take more sacks. The Steelers also give up a ton of sacks each year because Roethlisberger holds onto the ball too long. He can make big plays, but he also takes a lot of sacks. I also never said the steelers offensive line is amazing right now. I was proving to you that the Steelers used high draft picks and free agency to sign offensive lineman well before they were any good this past decade. Starks is the only guy left on that offensive line, yes. But how many players are still in the league after 10+ years? Not many... Here is a list of offensive lineman that had one of the top 10 salaries on their respective teams: Browns 2000: Dave Wohlabaugh 3rd, Roman Oben 6th, Jim Pyne 7th Steelers 2000: Wayne Gandy 4th, Dermonitti Dawson 5th Browns 2001: Ross Verba 4th, Roman Oben 8th, Dave Wohlabaugh 10th Steelers 2001: Jeff Hartings 2nd, Wayne Gandy 4th Browns 2002: Ryan Tucker 7th, Dave Wohlabaugh 9th Steelers 2002: Alan Faneca 2nd, Kendall Simmons 8th, Wayne Gandy 9th Browns 2003: Jeff Faine 4th, Ross Verba 7th, Ryan Tucker 10th Steelers 2003: Marvel Smith 1st, Jeff Hartings 4th, Alan Faneca 7th Browns 2004: Ryan Tucker 5th, Ross Verba 8th Steelers 2004: Alan Faneca 5th, Jeff Hartings 6th Browns 2005: Joe Andruzzi 8th Steelers 2005: Jeff Hartings 4th, Marvel Smith 5th, Alan Faneca 6th Browns 2006: LeCharles Bentley 1st, Kevin Shaffer 5th Steelers 2006: Marvel Smith 5th, Alan Faneca 6th, Jeff Hartings 9th Browns 2007: Eric Steinbach 1st, Joe Thomas 2nd, Kevin Shaffer 5th, Hank Fraley 9th Steelers 2007: Kendall Simmons 3rd, Sean Mahan 5th, Marvel Smith 6th, Alan Faneca 7th Browns 2008: Joe Thomas 1st, Eric Steinbach 5th Steelers 2008: Max Starks 2nd, Marvel Smith 7th Browns 2009: Eric Steinbach 5th, John St. Clair 10th Steelers 2009: Max Starks 2nd, Chris Kemoeatu 7th I think you get the gist... The Browns haven't drafted well in the past or signed the correct free agents (Again, piss poor management in the past). But the Steelers spent high draft picks and money to keep good offensive lineman on their team for a while. The Browns have had terrible management this past decade, but they HAVE NOT spent more money on offensive lineman than the Steelers or anyone else in the league... Facts do not lie. Offensive lineman aren't a dime a dozen or teams wouldn't consistently pay them as well as they do.. I like your thinking and your post was excellent especially understanding the part about Browns management. And civil that is novel around here. Did you consider in your assessment that their are five offensive lineman on offense nearly 50% of the players? Did you consider, which I already mentioned that the Browns cut O'Hara and Oben and Lomas Brown (whom you did not mention) and traded Jeff Faine for nothing all of whom started for other teams in the Super Bowl. I will repeat two as LT's and two as Centers the two most important positions on the OLine? Why is it that these guys all cut by the Browns were cornerstones on other teams.Why is it that we paid loads of money for these guys and then proclaimed them failures? The key to a good offenseive line is cohesion and that takes time versus revolving chairs at OL. There is one other key to a good offensive line at that is skill players who make plays. No skill players a crappy line even if you five Joe Thomas's.Further, the Browns paid a lot of money for all the free agents you listed above and Steelers never overpaid for free agents. The Steelers top picks in the last years where Polamalu, Roethlisberger, Holmes, Plaxico, Mendenhall, guys who lead them to Super Bowls NOT their OL line which has been criticized for four years now. They let Faneca go and went to the Super Bowl, didn't miss him much, eh? I think if you really want to make your case, list the starting players on the Super Bowl teams and how they arrived at that team and at what cost. You will be surprised how many were low picks or undrafted free agents or castoffs of another team....... I just mentioned four above that we sent packing who started in the Super Bowl I am sticking to my position and if you check the Steelers and NE top picks through the years rarely do they spend it on an OL guy and they win. Our first three picks in the expansion draft were OL guys, and since three one picks, one the number 3 overall, and huge signing pays for Shaffer, Verba, Steinbach, Wolabaugh, Oben, Andruzzi and Tucker, not to mention Bentley. Like I said we spent more than other team on OL guys and yet have stank for 11 years, meanwhile we have no depth at RB, had no QB for years, and have never had a set of WR's that stretched the field and thus a crappy offense for years. If we actually had playmakers we could have used the monies on the OL, but we dont and will not be very good until such time we get playmakers and a franchise QB if McCoy does not work out. Five on five...five OL guys and five skill players, we spent all our money on the Oline repeatedly and keep losing I appreciate your reseach and civility, it is refreshing among the assholes spewing the hate posts for me getting it correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted October 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Jeezus Christ- do you have a reading comprehension problem or what? I F**cking gave you a blow by blow description of the Browns first round "playmaker" busts- AND o-line pickups- would you like me to go into the second and third round busts starting with Travis Wilson and Charlie Frye- in case you can't it through your fat head why the Browns have sucked? Rich, this may be the last time I answer you in this thread. I'm a freaking scientist. I gave you a virtual player by player break down why the Browns O-line picks failed (except Wollabaugh). You're either not reading the posts, or you have your head stuck so far up your a$ on this it won't matter what I say. Ignorance is bliss. So here's the scientific analogy of your argument. "On a clear day, the sky is pink." "Rich, the sky is blue." "No it isn't, and I can prove it." "Really?" "You see, if I look through my narrow band glasses that only see from the 650 to 700 nanometer band, the sky is most certainly pink." Pick up your football Rich, declare victory- (gee I think you did that once- legend in your own mind) even though you've been beaten into oblivion by facts- (& sorry about your obvious factual errors- have been pointed out more than once) and come back after Rothlisberger is on IR when his o-line can't protect him anymore. Seriously, start trolling Steelers boards and tell Homotron, Endymion, and Galfreets O-line are "Dime a Dozen" and see how far you get there, you'll get laughed off their boards too. I dare you- and I'm waiting for the link and their response. Jesus H, Larry dont you ever read, comprehend, or reason? I present a detailed argurment and you discard it. You never answered my lengthy post, instead you went into denial about reality.We stink because we have failed to focus on getting what wins, and that is playmakers who touch the ball. When you fill that need the five OL guys will perform and if you dont they will stink and that is why they are a dime a dozen. It is easy to find lineman, hard to find an AJ Green hard to find a Ben Roethlisberger, hard to find an Adrian Peterson, the latter two we passed on to get a lineman and hot head And please do not spout conventional wisdom about OL here or elsewhere, I clearly understand where the herd is coming from. That does not mean any of you get it, Bill Belichick gets it, the Steelers Mgt gets it, the average fan is just another member of the herd, just like you and swills whatever cool the media feeds them. I get it Larry you dont, you should starting listening instead dissing By the way Larry, I am an engineer and have a masters degree and actually got things done big time, so dont preach about being a scientist, a scientist hypothesizes how drinking cool aid is good, and engineer puts rubber to the road and makes it work. A great engineer disputes conventional wisdom and makes the next big thing and better, and I did that, and I am trying to get a few of you get the same about football.. So dont get pissed at me, rather scientifically try to adjust your thinking out of the box instead being confined to wrong headed thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Jesus H, Larry dont you ever listen, I present a detailed argurment and you discard it. You never answered my lengthy post, instead you went into denial about reality.We stink because we have failed to focus on getting what wins, and that is playmakers who touch the ball. When you fill that need the five OL guys will perform and if you dont they will stink and that is why they are a dime a dozen. It is easy to find lineman, hard to find an AJ Green hard to find a Ben Roethlisberger, hard to find an Adrian Peterson, the latter two we passed on to get a lineman and hot head And please do not spout conventional wisdom about OL here or elsewhere, I clearly understand where the herd is coming from. That does not mean any of you get it, Bill Belichick gets it, the Steelers Mgt gets it, the average fan is just another member of the herd, just like you and swills whatever cool the media feeds them. I get it Larry you dont, you should starting listening instead dissing Rich, I gave you every first round pick the Browns have had- since '99, (three OL by my count) and I gave you reasons why every OL pickup failed, bad management on the releases, and bringing in guys that were a year or two from collecting Social Security. The Browns have stunk since '99 because the position players drafted in the first round have busted BIG TIME in Cleveland. Joe Thomas is the only unqualified success in 13 years, and that's not even close to good enough to field a competitive team. If you can't get a great player at least 50% of the time in the first round, you're doomed to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Rich, I gave you every first round pick the Browns have had- since '99, (three OL by my count) and I gave you reasons why every OL pickup failed, bad management on the releases, and bringing in guys that were a year or two from collecting Social Security. The Browns have stunk since '99 because the position players drafted in the first round have busted BIG TIME in Cleveland. Joe Thomas is the only unqualified success in 13 years, and that's not even close to good enough to field a competitive team. If you can't get a great player at least 50% of the time in the first round, you're doomed to fail. You are getting there Larry, I agree with most of what you said. The key is getting great players and all the great players on offense touch the ball.................and that is where you miss it, it takes five lineman to block and even if you got the five best in the league and you got squat at skill positions those five will be considered horrible, just like our five now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 You are getting there Larry, I agree with most of what you said. The key is getting great players and all the great players on offense touch the ball.................and that is where you miss it, it takes five lineman to block and even if you got the five best in the league and you got squat at skill positions those five will be considered horrible, just like our five now Glad to all you behemoths of OL supremacy could never retort why OL changes week by week and the OL that starts the season never ends the season and that the same QB's always end up in the playoffs and the those superior D's that lose the Super Bowl give up 31 points a game ;........................................... and not a single objective argument was ever presented.................just subjective cool aid Bs so in the end Rich wins again.................Offense wins games and the QB is all important as is his skill players, and defense does not but helps keep you in games.....................and OH YEAH....................The OL IS "dime a dozen"""""""""""" boom won again, with not a single stat based post to counter.................only hate and rhetoric and subjectiveness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 well, where is the logical and fact filled counter. you guys again quit with the logic and reality gets tough losers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 well, where is the logical and fact filled counter. you guys again quit with the logic and reality gets tough losers Sorry Rich- posted it in another thread. Just tired of beating (our) collective heads against the brick wall that surrounds your cranium. I'm done debating you- it's pointless. Insanity is repeating the same (failed) process over and over and expecting a different result. Fact of the matter is: #1 RICH IS ALWAYS RIGHT. #2 IF RICH IS WRONG, REFER TO #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Everyone is a winner on the shortbus isn't that right richey? The short bus even comes in your favorite colors piss and black. look! richey pimped his ride yur post was so great , devoid of football, big on personal attacks on me and best yet ..................NO CONTENT..........you are what you are a vacuum of knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry Rich- posted it in another thread. Just tired of beating (our) collective heads against the brick wall that surrounds your cranium. I'm done debating you- it's pointless. Insanity is repeating the same (failed) process over and over and expecting a different result. Fact of the matter is: #1 RICH IS ALWAYS RIGHT. #2 IF RICH IS WRONG, REFER TO #1. Sorry Larry me wanting winning has lost to the losing of your less than adequate ideology, and that of brownsfans, keep promoting the losing and stonewall my winning good job wanting to keep losing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 By the way Larry, I am an engineer and have a masters degree and actually got things done big time, so dont preach about being a scientist, a scientist hypothesizes how drinking cool aid is good, and engineer puts rubber to the road and makes it work. so when did you become an engineer while swabbin the deck of the S.S. MINNOW? engineer, astronaut, UFC champion, dick.....wow, you've been around (at least that's what i've heard). either you are a senile old man trying to live a reoccuring dream or you're a little putz crankin it in his grandma's root cellar. and engineer puts rubber to the road and makes it work. and i thought you only liked rubber in your mouth and ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 It's the former, mixed with the latter. He's a senile old trailer park Stool fan living this internet life where he's a millionaire Engineer that kicks peoples asses and was the one guy Paul Brown begged to play for Cleveland. Reality is he's a typical minimum wage loser tugging his two incher in the singlewide to his Pig Ben fathead. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Eater Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 You children are funny did you learn that at Gymboree??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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