Same Sex Marriage Vote Passes In Mn

[MLD Woody]

Congrats Cal, I'm not saying there are no idiots within the movement. If you took that as a standard then nothing would be taken seriously, especially your side.

 

Why call it marriage? Because there's no reason not to and it meets all the qualifiers except the current man woman thing. But like its been stated on here before, the definition of marriage has changed a lot over history.

 

But we're still waiting for someone to elaborate on why gay marriage shouldnt be allowed. WHY exactly it will cause the moral decay of society.

 

Instead we get ignorant "articles" about gay being a choice and a dangerous one, and Bible references. Then claims that the only reason this is occurring is to challenge the status quo. Clearly "the gays" only want to ruin the 'Merica you remember as a kid!

[Westside Steve]

I'm not sure how it makes your point at all. Marriage us between a man and a woman according to some. Ok. Well is that the only restriction? Because of you want to deny marriage based on what you see as a questionable and immoral choice then there's many situations where the moral police should be stepping into a man and woman's marriage. So, uh, respectfully, that arguement is full of horse shit. Politicians and moral crusaders have no place in anyone's bedroom. That's crazy fascist shit right there, yet those same people accuse democrats of fascism if you suggest limiting access to guns. Interesting.

Well I guess that crazy fascist s*** is an issue you need to take up with someone who cares about it.

I'm just saying there are certain things that make marriage what it is. If you personally believe those things should all be removed, I'm not arguing with you. But marriage ceases to exist. That's all.

You can give me a list of things that should be included in a marriage vow if you want but I don't see the point. Someone will say that they arent fair. And you won't have a leg to stand on if they do.

 

So what I'm saying is that this makes marriage completely meaningless.

Furthermore in this world where many of you believe that everything has to be 100 percent completely equal then you are denying some perks to people who aren't married.

 

So if that's the way it must be it's time to eliminate marriage from the United States legal system completely.

It's time to write a universal partnership contract that does not afford any more benefits to the couple applying for it that it does a single citizen.

If couples, or trios, or quartets decide to sign that legally binding contract fine.

 

If others decide to participate in some sort of show then they can go to a church or any were they like and have somebody in a tall hat proclaim them man and wife.

But that union would have absolutely no perks no profits and no extra benefits in the eyes of the law.

But they'd be free to take pictures and have a party.

 

But perhaps I've rambled a bit so back to my proposition: how about you give me a list of things you believe makes marriage a special Union.

 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Aren't there a lot of legal and financial reasons for the government to recognize two individuals as married? Like spousal privilege?

[The Cysko Kid]

Nothing makes it a special union. It's two people committing to each other no more or less. Some people don't care about that commitment so they get divorced. Sometimes multiple times. That's more damaging to the institution of marriage than two gays that stay together. Much more damaging.

[Westside Steve]

Nothing makes it a special union. It's two people committing to each other no more or less. .

;

 

then it truly has absolutely no place within the legal system of the United States. Fair enough.

 

you can call yourself whatever you like if it doesn't have any legal or financial baggage.

 

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Aren't there a lot of legal and financial reasons for the government to recognize two individuals as married? Like spousal privilege?

Why should there be legal and financial reasons for the government to recognize two individuals as married? Why are they better than single people?

 

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Married people generally have children. Obviously, married gay people can't have children. I think what is behind the benefits of marriage are religious in nature. What else could it be? The more kids you have, the more tax breaks you get. Is this fair to people who have no kids? Is it fair to give special tax privileges to people because they have a government document that says they are married? How about welfare benefits?

[Westside Steve]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

 

actually die hard that's not really valid these days, is it follows? We took children and families of the table.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

 

actually die hard that's not really valid these days, is it follows? We took children and families of the table.

WSS

I'm not saying it is valid. I'm saying that was the original intent when the laws were passed. Now, any slut can got get knocked up and get the benefits of tax breaks, welfare, Medicaid, and even an Obama phone.

[The Cysko Kid]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html

 

actually die hard that's not really valid these days, is it follows? We took children and families of the table.

WSS

I think the benefits given to married people does indeed have to do with children. I think Diehard is correct there. Its a bit of a break, I think, in theory to take care of your kids. If you have kids and you don't have that joint income, then its quite likely you get additional benefits. Tax breaks, WIC, food stamps, etc. My wife and I were never eligible for any of that. Then you've got her cousin and her baby daddy living together for ten years but filing taxes as single, so they got all of that, plus their regular income

[MLD Woody]

Why should there be legal and financial reasons for the government to recognize two individuals as married? Why are they better than single people?

 

WSS

Who said they were better than single people?

[The Cysko Kid]

So, you know, the thought is married people will have children and single people won't. But single people with children get breaks and shit too. Single people with no kids probably get the worst of it, but, hey, you don't have anyone to worry about except yourself. No mouths to feed or things to buy except your own. I guess they figure that on average a single person with no kids has the most disposable income.

[Westside Steve]

Who said they were better than single people?

that would be anyone who believes in giving extra financial benefits to married people that would be denied single people. That's your point about marriage equality correct?

one group of people being denied benefits that another group of people receive.

treating them like a second class citizens, you understand.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

that would be anyone who believes in giving extra financial benefits to married people that would be denied single people. That's your point about marriage equality correct?

one group of people being denied benefits that another group of people receive.

treating them like a second class citizens, you understand.

WSS

While I don't think its just financial benefits, more like classification, same with the legal aspect, consider this:

 

No one if preventing a single person from getting married. They can do it whenever they want if they really want everything you are talking about.

 

A gay couple doesn't have a choice, they can't get married.

[Westside Steve]

Cysko if that's the case should only couples with children, or plans to have children, be allowed to marry?

and that can include adoption so we don't deny benefits do gay couples.

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

You're getting way off topic. My point is nobody should be telling other people they can or can't get married. You going on about how much taxes you have to pay is another thing altogether. I pay a shit ton of tax too. 37% of my income goes to tax and health benefits. I almost never get a tax refund. I'm either squared up or I have to pay a measly amount. What does that have to do with gay marriage?

[Westside Steve]

How? Well let's recap. It seems that everyone here agrees now that marriage and the benefits included concern, among other things passing on property joining clans and kingdoms and as we have been discussing making it easier to raise children. The opponents of gay marriage claim that homosexuals cannot have children. Quite true. The proponents of gay marriage state that not all straight couples have children or even can have children. So, they insist, that part of the marriage contract is null and void.

Recently you suggested that even adultery should be removed as a deal breaker in a marriage contract since we shouldn't legislate morality. Fine. So in the end all there is to marriage is a promise between two people to do whatever they decide they want to do. There's absolutely nothing prohibiting any to, three or four or more people from making a pledge. Nothing. So all you have left is a legal contract. For the religious aspect these people are free to select any church that embraces their particular idea of that Union. But that has nothing to do with the laws of the United States. So it would seem to me that the fairest and most equitable way to handle this situation is with aim national civil union contract. That would be separate from any spirituals or otherwise marriage covenant people decide to embrace. But remember we are also talking about fairness. I propose that it isn't fair for my taxes or my insurance premiums to be higher because I'm not married. If in fact fairness is anyone's actual goal here. Do you disagree?

WSS

[The Cysko Kid]

So let's take the govt out of it. They don't belong anyway. No breaks for anyone. Now can you shut the fuck up and let them get married? So they're not actually the second class citizens you fear single white males are?

[Westside Steve]

So let's take the govt out of it. They don't belong anyway. No breaks for anyone. Now can you shut the fuck up and let them get married? So they're not actually the second class citizens you fear single white males are?

I have supported gay marriage since the beginning of this conversation. And yes I can shut the fuck up if perhaps you could learn to read. Fair enough?

 

(yeah I know, I just made the list...)

[The Cysko Kid]

I know, I know. I doesn't reads too good

[Westside Steve]

I know, I know. I doesn't reads too good

teachers union.....

WSS

[Erie Dawg]

 

I "elaborate" all of the time. Its just nothing you guys ever like to hear.

 

 

I'll start with this. The beginning of that rant is focused around saying being gay is bad for you, this is false. He is trying to make it seem like people get sick and get HIV because they're gay, this is false. This happens through random, numerous and unprotected sex. That can happen regardless of your sexual orientation. He goes on from there to act like we need to "stop the gay" because its bad for society.

 

Not to mention the whole "being gay is a choice" thing. Its not, and the science is on my side here.

 

I read the rest of it but I can't remember exactly what he said. I could go on if you'd like

I read the article and it has nothing definitive that says otherwise. Its a theory nothing more.

[Erie Dawg]

But the guy used stats to say that being gay is unhealthy. If you read it how can you argue its not. Something like 2% of the population is gay and if I remember right 80% have HIV or Aids. Sounds bad to me.

[MLD Woody]

But the guy used stats to say that being gay is unhealthy. If you read it how can you argue its not. Something like 2% of the population is gay and if I remember right 80% have HIV or Aids. Sounds bad to me.

Do you honestly think you get HIV by being gay? No. You get HIV by making poor decisions or just getting really unlucky. There is a difference. Do you understand that?

[Erie Dawg]

Do you honestly think you get HIV by being gay? No. You get HIV by making poor decisions or just getting really unlucky. There is a difference. Do you understand that?

ok, then 80% of gay people make bad decisions then... or have shit luck? Huh.

[MLD Woody]

ok, then 80% of gay people make bad decisions then... or have shit luck? Huh.

Is that a correct stat or are you just spewing shit?

 

This guy makes it sound like being gay is a choice, and a dangerous one, and because its those two things we shouldn't encourage it. That's ridiculous.