Do you see the no hesitation in McCoy? Take notes Trich

[Soju]

Watching the eagles/redskins game I am noticing two things going on here.

 

1.) We need a mobile QB who can create, run if need to be to get out of a collapsing pockets, keep defenseshonest etc, instead of the statue we have in Weeden. This is where the NFL is headed.

 

2.) McCOy is hitting holes HARD, making one decision and gunning it full throttle. Trich is a BUST.

[Erie Dawg]

1.I can name more non running qbs that can keep a defense honest than "mobile" so that's dumb. Rg3 knee may not make it past week 6 the way his line is blocking. Don't look like they are to scared of him.

 

2. Philly is actually blocking and creating running lanes.

[Soju]

1.I can name more non running qbs that can keep a defense honest than "mobile" so that's dumb. Rg3 knee may not make it past week 6 the way his line is blocking. Don't look like they are to scared of him.

 

2. Philly is actually blocking and creating running lanes.

When I say mobile I don't mean the RG3's and Vicks who use their speed more than their pass. I mean a Kaepernick or WIlson type mobile--someone whose running capabilities accentuates their passing play. They have it in their back pocket and pull it out when needed and by design from time to time.

[Erie Dawg]

When I say mobile I don't mean the RG3's and Vicks who use their speed more than their pass. I mean a Kaepernick or WIlson type mobile--someone whose running capabilities accentuates their passing play. They have it in their back pocket and pull it out when needed and by design from time to time.

Yeah well keep dreaming then. They don't grow on trees.

[D Bone]

You can't talk about the hall of fame to be RB like that, don't you know it's either the "no holes to run through" excuse, or the "he played hurt" excuse.Take your pick. If we wanted to give the #3 pick for a RB that likes to pitter pat and dance, and is slow and plodding, well I guess we hit a home run. Our best RB broke his leg in pre-season.

[Shep]

League's starting to accumulate dual threat QBs. Some more good ones coming.

 

Announcers commented often on Richardson needing to learn to take his one cut and go. He's dancing, no doubt about it.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

When I say mobile I don't mean the RG3's and Vicks who use their speed more than their pass. I mean a Kaepernick or WIlson type mobile--someone whose running capabilities accentuates their passing play. They have it in their back pocket and pull it out when needed and by design from time to time.

That mobile Manning sure did keep Baltimore on their toes.

 

So is that ever mobile Philip Rivers.

[bringbackbrownie2]

Watching the eagles/redskins game I am noticing two things going on here.

 

2.) McCOy is hitting holes HARD, making one decision and gunning it full throttle. Trich is a BUST.

 

Ya did you notice the HOLE McCoy got to run through? It would be nice for Richardson to get that kind of blocking. It was the red sea parting across the middle. Richardson does dance around too much but it's hard not to when there is a d lineman immediately in the backfield. Vick had the passing game open which made McCoy a much greater threat..

[calfoxwc]

Wait a minute. I was watching that game. McCoy was dancing and jiterbugging one way and the other.

 

At least he eventually had a hole to find, and often. And the Eagles' oline is completely intact.

 

Yeah, TRich takes notes - you can't run the ball very well with both starting OG's out of the lineup.

 

Oh yeah, they don't have to worry about Weeden taking off and running like Michael Vick, either.

 

Geez.

 

[tampadawgs]

Lets see the Best QBs in the NFL are as followed

 

Manning

Brady

Brees

Brady

 

I do not see a lot of rushing stats coming out of these 4

 

As far as Mccoy, he is a completly different style runningback

[D Bone]

Wait a minute. I was watching that game. McCoy was dancing and jiterbugging one way and the other.

 

At least he eventually had a hole to find, and often. And the Eagles' oline is completely intact.

 

Yeah, TRich takes notes - you can't run the ball very well with both starting OG's out of the lineup.

 

Oh yeah, they don't have to worry about Weeden taking off and running like Michael Vick, either.

 

Geez.

 

 

You're comparing our RB to McCoy? That's like comparing a greyhound to an english bulldog.

[Tour2ma]

Have only broken down the first half of Week 1, but seems clear that TR is consistently running to the point where the run is designed to go.

 

If the hole is where it is supposed to be (as it was early in drive #1) great... positive yards result.

 

If not, let the dance begin... and if no one gets a solid grip on him he might wiggle out a yard or two.

 

But at least four times in the first half there were holes (or at least creases) only a yard or two right or left of the point TR ran to. Had he hit them with speed decent gains would have resulted.

 

The dude wears glasses off the field... maybe he needs to start wearing them in the games...

[gftChris]

For a terrible, scary moment I thought this was going to be a thread about the other McCoy. Am slightly relieved it's just some Richardson bashing.

[slowburn]

I thought the coaching was great for the Eagles. They effectively shut down RG's zone read option and looked potent on the offensive side. The rookie coach outdid one of the old guard NFL coaches. Their offensive line play was outstanding. Chip Kelly looked confident and relaxed. He may be the real deal.

I couldn't agree more regarding Trich's tentativeness about hitting the holes. when he goes into his dance mode he leaves himself vulnerable to fumbles and injuries. Look for upcoming defenses to be going after the ball big time.

[BrownsKidd]

First, I hate you Chip Kelly.

 

Second, as it has been mentioned on this board before, watching other NFL teams and comparing the Browns too them, I sit and think, God, we are playing on so many sub-levels compared to these other teams. It's like watching my son's 7 year old team play. Everything is in slow motion compared to the other NFL games I have watched.

Is it just "Cleveland". Is there something in the water? We can bring in coaches who have been successful in the past and then suddenly get to Cleveland and ship the bed?

 

McCoy looked great last night. I really hope that TRich was watching.

I wish I could show you guys this picture that my Co-worker took at the game. He in the Dawg Pound. A few rows up and takes really great pics at the game. There is a great shot of Trent trying to go through the hole. We have 5 men on the line blocking. Miami has 4 in the box rushing. There is no hole. It looks like Trent got to the hole before the guard did and the hole has been filled by the 4th rusher. 5 on 4, and there is no where to go. And you can see clearly in the pic that instead of just going through that hole and maybe plowing that linebacker he is cutting to his left where there is absolutely no place for him to go. The other scenario is Trent is holding up allowing for the block to get there, by then it's way to late.

I would share the pic but my friend shares all his pics via Windows Media player and the my screen grab won't grab the picture off of the Media player.

[Zombo]

Lets see the Best QBs in the NFL are as followed

 

Manning

Brady

Brees

Brady

 

 

 

You've got two Brady's I hope the other isn't Quinn.

 

It should say Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers ... there's them, and then there's everybody else

 

We are pretty much the worst of everybody else right now.

 

Zombo

[jrb12711]

haha. The first thing that came into my mind when I was watching that game is 'the same old browns misery posters will say Trent was a wasted pick and the Eagles are Jesus'. Read carefully to what I'm about to say:

 

1) McCoy had 31 carries. Let me repeat that in case you missed it. 31 CARRIES. I would have loved to see Trent even get to 20 last game but he didn't.

 

2) The Eagles offense is predicated on the read-option run. To compare what the Eagles were doing to what the Browns did Sunday is just plain stupid. Jesus, Mike Vick could have called his mom and talked about how good he was doing before he threw the ball. McCoy had holes big enough that fatass Cousins would have racked up 100 yards. It's easy to cut and hit a hole full speed with no hesitation when ya know, there actually is one.

 

3) Trent for better or worse is a downhill runner that makes people miss with his size and strength. Clearly that is an effective model (see AP) but even AP gets stuffed when there's no line push. The reason the Vikings are good is because their identity, just like the Eagles, is the run game. I hate to say it but last week looked like another game of Browns football where the coaches had no idea WTF to do on offense. I'd love to see what Trent could do with 25-30 carries consistently.

 

I get it, top 3 pick on a RB was high. But the guy dances at the line because there's nowhere to go. I just don't get what you all expect the man to do when 3 guys get penetration in the backfield and the lineman are getting no push.

[Shep]

Like I said, the announcers commented during replays on the 5 or so carries where T-Rich could've left it at one cut and got more yards than he did by cutting 4 or 5 times in a small space (and not at McCoy's pace, to be sure). He really needs to get his 4 or 5 and stop getting 2 because he's dancing.

 

It's not hard to spot when it's replayed and commented on. I wouldn't draft ANY back that high in today's league... and I really don't think T-Rich was "The One" anyway. I think he's a good back. I think he's versatile and committed. But I don't really believe he'll win us a lot more games than Bernard Pierce would have (3rd rounder in 2012).

 

Honestly, I think the draft was obvious: Tannehill and then Martin, whom the Browns were said to love. But it didn't go that way and we can move on. It is going to cost us because as of right now, today, I'm no more convinced that Weeden is our long-term starter... and I'm betting Banner and Lombardi feel the same. It can change.

[jrb12711]

Like I said, the announcers commented during replays on the 5 or so carries where T-Rich could've left it at one cut and got more yards than he did by cutting 4 or 5 times in a small space (and not at McCoy's pace, to be sure). He really needs to get his 4 or 5 and stop getting 2 because he's dancing.

 

I suppose I was watching a much different game. Admittedly there was one time on a stretch play where he left his blocks early the and commentator noticed it too. I certainly didn't see 5 carries that way. I saw a guy who had 4 nice runs, 1 bad read and nothing possible to do on the other carries.

[Tour2ma]

haha. The first thing that came into my mind when I was watching that game is 'the same old browns misery posters will say Trent was a wasted pick and the Eagles are Jesus'. Read carefully to what I'm about to say:

 

1) McCoy had 31 carries. Let me repeat that in case you missed it. 31 CARRIES. I would have loved to see Trent even get to 20 last game but he didn't.

 

2) The Eagles offense is predicated on the read-option run. To compare what the Eagles were doing to what the Browns did Sunday is just plain stupid. Jesus, Mike Vick could have called his mom and talked about how good he was doing before he threw the ball. McCoy had holes big enough that fatass Cousins would have racked up 100 yards. It's easy to cut and hit a hole full speed with no hesitation when ya know, there actually is one.

 

3) Trent for better or worse is a downhill runner that makes people miss with his size and strength. Clearly that is an effective model (see AP) but even AP gets stuffed when there's no line push. The reason the Vikings are good is because their identity, just like the Eagles, is the run game. I hate to say it but last week looked like another game of Browns football where the coaches had no idea WTF to do on offense. I'd love to see what Trent could do with 25-30 carries consistently.

 

I get it, top 3 pick on a RB was high. But the guy dances at the line because there's nowhere to go. I just don't get what you all expect the man to do when 3 guys get penetration in the backfield and the lineman are getting no push.

 

Read carefully as instructed... I spotted 4 inaccuracies. Do I win?

 

1. McCoy got to 31 carries due to his individual contributions to the team's success in sustaining drives. People that think you can just decide to get a RB X number of carries amuse me.

 

2. The Eagles ran only a handful of read options in each half because Kelly knows Vick can't take the pounding. Some of those did break well for McCoy, but all included him making at least defender look silly 1 on 1. The balance were fairly traditional plays run at a pace never seen before in the NFL. Pace and keeping the D off-balance are the keys to Kelly's offense.

 

3. Size and strength make RB's elusive??? Really? I thought it was speed and sharp cuts... which by the way AP has in spades. Just take a gander at his opening run in Week 1. He made a cut coming out of the hole that was beautiful.

 

A great back finds holes where there are.... not just where they are supposed to be. TR is not doing that now... and as I wrote above there were runs in the first half where holes were open and he did not find them.

[jrb12711]

 

Read carefully as instructed... I spotted 4 inaccuracies. Do I win?

 

1. McCoy got to 31 carries due to his individual contributions to the team's success in sustaining drives. People that think you can just decide to get a RB X number of carries amuse me.

 

2. The Eagles ran only a handful of read options in each half because Kelly knows Vick can't take the pounding. Some of those did break well for McCoy, but all included him making at least defender look silly 1 on 1. The balance were fairly traditional plays run at a pace never seen before in the NFL. Pace and keeping the D off-balance are the keys to Kelly's offense.

 

3. Size and strength make RB's elusive??? Really? I thought it was speed and sharp cuts... which by the way AP has in spades. Just take a gander at his opening run in Week 1. He made a cut coming out of the hole that was beautiful.

 

A great back finds holes where there are.... not just where they are supposed to be. TR is not doing that now... and as I wrote above there were runs in the first half where holes were open and he did not find them.

 

Really? Let's try this again.

 

1) Norv Turner said before the game he wanted Trent to get 25-30 carries. How is that not deciding what you want to do before the game? And my point here is that McCoy literally had more than double the opportunities to run the ball than Trent did. I would expect good numbers from 31 carries but if Trent doesn't even get 20 we'll never know.

 

2) The Eagles ran a lot more than a handful of read-option plays. Vick had 9 rushes in that game last night alone mostly on read option looks. He took a pounding on several plays too. I'm really not sure what game you were watching if you saw otherwise. The read-option also can be passing plays which is was for Vick last night several times.

 

3) Yes, size can make a player elusive because he's hard to bring down. AP had almost 1400 YAC last season. I consider that just as much a benchmark of elusiveness as being shifty or quick. Trent is not built like McCoy and won't run like McCoy and that's not a bad thing.

 

Again, apparently I wasn't watching the same game some of you were. What I saw was an offensive line get destroyed and make the running game virtually non-existent. I'm not a homer, and I wasn't crazy about the Trent pick either to be honest. But it's obvious the guy has talent and can create plays. The Browns have a whole lot more issues than TR right now.

[calfoxwc]

No. This oline is struggling badly without the two starting guards. Cousins was badly outmatched,

and again, made really stupid mistakes that cost 1, maybe 2 TD's. TR is a different back, quick, and

very, very powerful. Miami's front seven is serious business. That's from Joe Thomas before the game.

 

The subject of this thread is invalid. Obviously, TRich doesn't have the confidence that the OG's will make the holes.

Some folks would rather he just hit the hole that doesn't exist, like he doesn't have a clue? You watch, a lot of teams

will throw a lot more against Miami because of their front seven.

 

And, TR can fix any "dancing" problem when he does have a hole, in about a few seconds. No big deal.

[gftChris]

No. This oline is struggling badly without the two starting guards. Cousins was badly outmatched,

and again, made really stupid mistakes that cost 1, maybe 2 TD's. TR is a different back, quick, and

very, very powerful. Miami's front seven is serious business. That's from Joe Thomas before the game.

 

The subject of this thread is invalid. Obviously, TRich doesn't have the confidence that the OG's will make the holes.

Some folks would rather he just hit the hole that doesn't exist, like he doesn't have a clue? You watch, a lot of teams

will throw a lot more against Miami because of their front seven.

 

And, TR can fix any "dancing" problem when he does have a hole, in about a few seconds. No big deal.

John Greco would seem to be the one starting guard - the other two were in a competition for the second spot the second greco signed his new contract.

 

Anyway, Breaking Bad finishes soon, we should have Jesse Pinkman back.

[Tour2ma]

What shocked me, cal, in my breakdown was just how bad a first half Greco had... It was not Cousins' bad... but it was bad. Nonetheless there were holes available... just not where they were supposed to be.... he was dancing where they were supposed to be.

 

=======================================

 

Elude defenders by running them over... LOL....

A run due to pressure from a pass rush counts as a read option run...

31 rushes at 3.3 per gets TR 102 yards... and we lose...

You can beat a dead horse all-day, but it still ain't getting up....

jrb... stop it, man... you're killing me...

[jrb12711]

What shocked me, cal, in my breakdown was just how bad a first half Greco had... It was not Cousins' bad... but it was bad. Nonetheless there were holes available... just not where they were supposed to be.... he was dancing where they were supposed to be.

 

=======================================

 

Elude defenders by running them over... LOL....

A run due to pressure from a pass rush counts as a read option run...

31 rushes at 3.3 per gets TR 102 yards... and we lose...

You can beat a dead horse all-day, but it still ain't getting up....

jrb... stop it, man... you're killing me...

 

It's funny cause you're killing me too. Failing to do basic math (47/13 is not 3.3 YPC) says about everything I need to know.

 

I'm done, but here's the definition of elude just for your reference: To evade or escape from, as by daring, cleverness, or skill. Of course breaking a tackle due to strength and size isn't skill or anything. Good grief.

[Tour2ma]

Size and strength are skills???

 

On the other hand, I had the TR avg YPC wrong. Thought 3.3 was his 2012 average (I was going for a bigger sample size), but it was 3.6... same as it was Sunday... So you only needed to find him 28 carries to get him to 100 yds... and we tie???

 

I'm all in on more TR touches... runs if they're working. I think we might agree that 4.0 YPC is still the measure of an effective run game... yes? But there was no sign Sunday that pounding the rock would have produced better results late than they did early.

 

And certainly more TR touches via the pass where he avg'd 15 ypc... and can use that "ellusive strength" in the 2ndary.... (sorry... could not resist...).

 

Till we meet again... when we may well agree... it's happened before.

[jrb12711]

Size and strength are skills???

 

On the other hand, I had the TR avg YPC wrong. Thought 3.3 was his 2012 average (I was going for a bigger sample size), but it was 3.6... same as it was Sunday... So you only needed to find him 28 carries to get him to 100 yds... and we tie???

 

I'm all in on more TR touches... runs if they're working. I think we might agree that 4.0 YPC is still the measure of an effective run game... yes? But there was no sign Sunday that pounding the rock would have produced better results late than they did early.

 

And certainly more TR touches via the pass where he avg'd 15 ypc... and can use that "ellusive strength" in the 2ndary.... (sorry... could not resist...).

 

Till we meet again... when we may well agree... it's happened before.

 

If used well, yes they are. Anyone can have size and strength, just go to the local Gold's gym and you can see that. Using that strength and size is a skill in football. Guys like AP and to a lesser extent Michael Turner or Mike Tolbert have or had a lot of success but they had skills against smaller defenders. Anyone can be elusive, it's just commonly given to the Darren Sproles of the games. To me, if you're breaking tackles that makes you elusive. IDC how that goes.

 

The bottom line is you can't judge the guy based on 13 carries. Even if on the 14th carry he gets a 10 yard gain, we're getting to that 'benchmark' of 4.0 YPC. Trent had several nice runs early and it was totally abandoned in a close game for the second half. I'm willing to eat crow if given more touches in this system he still has mediocre numbers, but it's hard to judge when he's hardly getting the ball. I think Trent has all the skills to be a steady back, but we have to give the guy a chance.

[miktoxic]

our OL play was terrible, we all know that. but as one poster said above comparing TR to mccoy is laughable. mccoy has that burst of speed as soon as he gets the ball and quite frankly is past the Dline before they know what's going on. TR needs a hole or to get outside to gain his momentum. mccoy has it from the start.

 

and yes the browns look like they are playing HS football compared to most teams in the league.

 

i'd hate to see what our power ranking is right now.

 

chudzinski said the team 'will learn' from the loss to the fins. well i hope he and turner learn something too.

 

i would have fed TR 30 times that game. if anything you're wearing down the fins D and let him get outside where he can punish some DBs so they are less effective against our non-effective receiving corp. our semi-rookie TE is the only one that showed up.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Like I said, the announcers commented during replays on the 5 or so carries where T-Rich could've left it at one cut and got more yards than he did by cutting 4 or 5 times in a small space (and not at McCoy's pace, to be sure). He really needs to get his 4 or 5 and stop getting 2 because he's dancing.

 

It's not hard to spot when it's replayed and commented on. I wouldn't draft ANY back that high in today's league... and I really don't think T-Rich was "The One" anyway. I think he's a good back. I think he's versatile and committed. But I don't really believe he'll win us a lot more games than Bernard Pierce would have (3rd rounder in 2012).

 

Honestly, I think the draft was obvious: Tannehill and then Martin, whom the Browns were said to love. But it didn't go that way and we can move on. It is going to cost us because as of right now, today, I'm no more convinced that Weeden is our long-term starter... and I'm betting Banner and Lombardi feel the same. It can change.

You keep saying we can move on from the draft...yet you bring it up in every single post.

 

I literally can copy and paste any one of your responses from any other thread...and it will look exactly the same as this one.

 

"I think the #3 spot was too high for a RB. Did you listen to the announcers? It's pretty obvious what they said is right, and I agree with it. I wish we had Tannehill and Martin, but we don't so no use in worrying about it. This is a passing league. Did it mention that I wish we would have drafted Tannehill and Martin? Oh well, it's too late now. We need a pass rush. It's too bad we can't get that from Tannehill and Martin. Tannehill passes and Martin catches the pass and then also rushes. It's perfect. But oh well, we don't have them so no use in bringing them up."

 

By the way, since everyone gushed about Martin's YPC last season (since that was really the only better stat he had than Richardson)... heres their 2013 comparisons.

 

Richardson

13 carries 47 yards 3.6 YPC 0 TD

 

Martin

24 carries 65 yards 2.7 YPC 1 TD

 

Keep in mind, that's against the vaunted Jets defense starting...nobody in their front 7.

[Shep]

I started to read your last post, it got weird and insulting so I stopped, but I'll continue to read your more meaningful stuff, which is great.