Mallet

[thenew23]

The problem with Mariota is defensive coordinators can force him to stay in the pocket and throw the ball. From what I've seen (and I've watched quite a bit of him) he has shown nothing from the pocket other than a rocket arm. As TCPO said, he has thrown deep balls to wide open receivers, not impressive. I am yet to see him step up into the pocket, read a defense, and hit a 3rd or 4th option for a solid first down, but I won't b/c he has the tendency to run before letting the play unfold completely which never works out at the next level. As a "playmaker" he has great potential, as a "quarterback" in the NFL, I have major doubts...

 

Not to mention, just like Bridgewater, he has played against NOBODY...

[miktoxic]

so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....

 

hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..

 

OR

 

spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.

 

a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?

 

boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.

[D Bone]

so that basically leaves us with 2 propositions....

 

hope hoyer comes back, don't spend both firts rounders (expecting gordon NOT to be traded) and fix other needs on both sides of the ball..

 

OR

 

spend the bank on a 'new' franchise QB and hope that he lives up to his college prowess.

 

a lot of really relative thinking going to have to be discussed i.e. like vag said, is hoyer's miniscule body of work worth not picking a guy and hope he performs like he did when in this year or do we take that chance and break the bank on bridgewater or mariota?

 

boyd INO just fell off the map with the whooping they took from a frosh QB who wde are not ever going to see in our draft sights timing wise.

 

Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go. Maybe the bowl season will help me decide, as I don't give any credit to the combine........That's where the David Veikune's come from.

[Erie Dawg]

I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.

how about brains? I would put that above A&B. Peyton manning dont have a cannon arm or throw a pretty spiral, he sure the hell isnt athletic, but he has a mind for the game. Same could be said for Brady, Eli, Ryan, Bress, etc.

 

And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers. yeah sure, but when you like all of the QB's you can't be wrong either?

 

Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.

 

Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.

[bringbackbrownie2]

I'm on the West Coast and watch a ton of Mariota. If you don't think he's an exciting prospect and an obvious top five pick, either you aren't actually watching him or you don't value athleticism and arm talent in a quarterback. There is no option C.

 

And my QB acumen is unrivaled in the known universe. Your mind cannot comprehend my powers.

 

Winston is a redshirt freshman so he only has to play one more year. But you never, ever plan your draft around a guy you'd like to get in two years, before you've even started the next season. Hoyer's healthy, the Browns go 8-8 without multiple picks to trade, they get nowhere near the #1 overall they'd need for Winston.

 

Nobody nowhere manages personnel like that. It's a great QB draft, the Browns know it, and that's exactly why they stole the extra first round pick from Indy. It's just a matter of who they like best in the top five.

 

I think everyone realizes we aren't tanking for 2 years to grab Winston. It just looks obvious that the kid has way more talent than most of this year's QB class. TCPO is correct in that Mariota is never under pressure. They few times he is, he looks like Colt Mccoy checking down to a guy that is triple covered 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage.. Mariota has speed, but I want a QB that has a quick release while still having the vision to look at multiple WRs before checking down or throwing the ball away..

 

That said, I would take Mariota over Johnny Football since the former can throw a spiral beyond 10 yards.. But that's like saying Weeden is better than Gabbert..

[Erie Dawg]

And bridgewater don't play in a "true pro style offense" The last Qb that came out of college that ran a "true pro style Offense" was andrew luck.

[miktoxic]

 

Man, which ever way we go, it's going to be a fun off season that's for sure. As we stand today, I'm 50/50 on which way to go.

isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?

 

it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Manziel.

[D Bone]

isn't it just total bullshit though that this is what we are discussing 7 weeks into a 16 week football schedule? like if weeden even showed a 'little' promise we could be talking about other things?

 

it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.

 

Yup, absolutely makes me sick to my stomach to think what would be if Brian would've just slid the right way. I have no way to prove of course, but I have no doubt in my mind that we would be right there with KC as this year's feelgood story. It felt like the '80s again for those 2.1 games.

[miktoxic]

Manziel.

 

ok, i'll make my own bed now. if 'whoever' picks manziel and he turns into johnny football in the NFL i will gladly eat crow and send you a 6 of the best brew you can think of,

 

but at the same time if he shits the bed i expect the same from you.

 

just don't see him on the next level except 2 games and a body bag.

 

bet?

[Mark O]

 

ok, i'll make my own bed now. if 'whoever' picks manziel and he turns into johnny football in the NFL i will gladly eat crow and send you a 6 of the best brew you can think of,

 

but at the same time if he shits the bed i expect the same from you.

 

just don't see him on the next level except 2 games and a body bag.

 

bet?

 

I agree with you. Not only because he isn't big enough but also because I think his attitude is not going to work at the next level.

[next2nothing]

it seems like it's been groundhog day for 15 years now.

 

It has been and it's because our FO's have consistently made terrible choices at the QB position. There are plenty of other mistakes but those pale in comparison to our horrendous QB play on the field.

[Shep]

Bridgewater is absolutely playing NFL quarterback right now. SO polished. He could step onto our team today and improve our team 100%, easily.

 

Mariota has HUGE arm talent: Great release, great spin, great accuracy, great velocity, makes every throw. And when has he looked bad in the pocket? I feel like you're dinging him for being too fast or something.

 

Manziel worked really hard in the offseason with Whitfield and it shows. He's way more comfortable in the pocket. And I don't agree that he has a noodle arm. He has more arm than McCoy and WAY more "It Factor." He's special. I'm admittedly more curious to see how his game translates than certain. I'd feel better if we got one of the top two guys... but I sure as hell would be intrigued by Manziel. You can't help but be. He's a blast.

 

After that I start getting concerned. Tajh lost my vote. Always a little iffy on Hundley but more now. Not into another DA/Weeden type in Mettenberger. AJ and Aaron are light in the arm, basically Andy Dalton types lacking much upside talent. McCarron still isn't being asked to win games for his team which scares me a lot.

 

I still think there are some late risers coming, too. Carr's already shooting up, along with the Baylor kid (so fresh I don't know his name yet).

[Flyin J]

Bryce Petty is the Baylor QB this year. Baylor has played no one so far this year and Nick Florence started over him in Pettys 3rd year in the system....I expect his name to fall as fast as it has risen.

[Erie Dawg]

Bridgewater is absolutely playing NFL quarterback right now. SO polished. He could step onto our team today and improve our team 100%, easily.

 

Mariota has HUGE arm talent: Great release, great spin, great accuracy, great velocity, makes every throw. And when has he looked bad in the pocket? I feel like you're dinging him for being too fast or something.

 

Manziel worked really hard in the offseason with Whitfield and it shows. He's way more comfortable in the pocket. And I don't agree that he has a noodle arm. He has more arm than McCoy and WAY more "It Factor." He's special. I'm admittedly more curious to see how his game translates than certain. I'd feel better if we got one of the top two guys... but I sure as hell would be intrigued by Manziel. You can't help but be. He's a blast.

Not sure who your talking to Shep but you not even recognizing the brains portion and I think that's what TCPO is saying. You like fast legs that throws lasers. Like I said I'll take a guy with a mind for the game over the other 2. But no I don't hate mariota I was actually talking about him when you had Boyd and Bridge as your #1's.

[miktoxic]

yeah if we do go franchise QB and have to give up alittle more than need be desired....i'm leaning mariota.

 

even though the acc has become better, i think the oregon schedule and style of play would have their QB more NFL ready.

[Vagitron]

he's a red-shirt freshman. i'd think he's be available in 2 years.

 

so you either have the FO thinking that hoyer might come back 100% and be good enough with some backup scrub to get us through 2 more agonizing years on offense (weapons) that we could shore up the right side of the OL, get another WR, a serious CB and a RB.

 

if not, they're going all in on someone next year.

 

the biggest bust class of QBs in decades.

 

Totally agree on this years qb class, although i do like Mccarron out of alabama. I think the browns 100 percent go with hoyer OR trade some picks and get cousins from washington.

[slowburn]

 

Do you really believe the read option is the future? It's not and it's the reason you see guys like Kaep getting pulled back because of potential for injury.

 

It's ironic that the NFL QB who has had the most measurable success in a zone read option offense is currently "unemployable". The 2011 Broncos with their playoff run led by Captain

 

Tebow was seen by many as a significant milestones of league history. Tebow was the prototypical QB, combining a powerful 250 lbs with speed and

 

agility. Before, there had been other QB's that seemed to thrive. M Vick had the ability to go vertical yet his 210 lbs didn't match up well with 290 lb linemen and LB's who had the tools to

 

run his dog fighting ass down . RGIII had the same problems as Vick. His athleticism and intelligence couldn't compensate for the obvious durability issues. Zone read option offenses will

 

go the way of the Wildpussy (cat). Call it the flavor of the week. Eugenics is a valid solution. Sadly, Hitler's aggressive use of the science ruined it for rest of the universe,

[Westside Steve]

Sooooooo isn't Ryan Mallet a secret love child of Lombardis? Never thought I would say it but PLEAESEEEEEE pull the trigger. Do it, trade a 2nd and Campbell for him. Trade a 1st and Campbell for him. Bring me someone that hasn't already proved to be a failure to run this offense NOW not next year. Eight days left until the trade deadline work some magic.

Good thinking. Hey why not trade both firsts a second 2 thirds Joe Thomas and Gordon?

WSS

[hammertime]

no on mallet.

 

i'd prefer they get a guy who can read a defense and is a min. 6'4".

 

someone smart enough to call an audible and quick enough to step up in the pocket when needed.

 

being a non-redneck is a bonus, being a vanilla ice wanna be is out also.....

[miktoxic]

the problem is no one knows what mallet is right now.

 

no one will know as long is brady is playing.

 

i don't get the comments of him not being tall enough, the dude is 6' 6" and 245 lbs. the dude could be the next aaron rodgers. i don't know. i know he's been sitting behind a HOF for the last 2 years.

 

vanilla ice wanna be? isn't that everyone right now?

[Shep]

Grossi is saying over and over that the Browns will do the right thing and get their guy at the top of the draft as opposed to looking to turn someone else's backup into a star.

 

And whoever's saying it... I'm a HUGE fan of brains on a quarterback. I've written a billion words on it and been shredded over believing the Wonderlic or some version of a "book smart" test does matter because NFL playbooks are advanced calculus these days. You want your QB to SEEM smart, too. And fiery as opposed to sleepy. Did you see Stafford the other day? He was going all Tom Brady (or Unitas or Marino) on his team. Plus, he got like a 35 on his Wonderlic and has the best arm in the league.

 

Tell me a QB isn't bright (looking at you VY and DA) and I know he's pretty well doomed. RG3 seems like a leader who would walk through fire to win. Russell Wilson seems like he teaches advanced chemistry in his spare time and could do standup if he wanted to (much like Aaron Rodgers, also in the 30s on his test). Conversely Josh Freeman seems a little tired most of the time and didn't even get voted captain of his team. Not good. Seriously not good.

 

Weeden may be smarter than he sounds and less sleepy than his body language suggests but both things matter HUGELY. He doesn't seem like The Guy. He's not a leader of men. And that's in addition to the fact he sucks ass.

 

Bridgewater is about as classy as it gets. He says all the right things, keeps a clean record, and his teammates love him. Mariota is having one of the best seasons in football history (19 pass TDs, 8 rush TDs, 0 interceptions and a Pac 12 record with 260 passes without a pick, etc.). You wanna scout him, he's facing Jim Mora and an excellent UCLA defense on Saturday. Mora says watching tape of Mariota is a horror show. He's that good. USA Today has him #1 overall this morning.

 

As for Manziel, I'm leaning into the gang that thinks the right coach will make him a Human Highlight Reel. He's got magic in him to be sure. Chip Kelly recruited the hell out of him (and got a brief commit)... and that would be a match made in heaven.

 

Carr will end up in the first round, probably Mettenberger, too. Bryce Petty will rise fast and has one of the best arms in the draft. But I think the Browns will shoot for Bridgewater or Mariota off a trade. I think it's too much to ask for Gabbert to change Jacksonville's mind but I think Glennon has a shot for TB, which might give us a path to Mariota.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I don't trust any QB coming out of Oregon since Joey Harrington. That's not a bias, it's because they aren't true QB's.

 

Oregon has stocked their roster with so much speed at every position and play such an unconventional style that their QB's don't face true defenses. Opposing teams are forced to keep their nickel backs on the field the entire game, and normally field a spy for the game's duration as well.

 

The Oregon system kills QB's. They take players with genuine talent and let them post fantastic numbers in college, but when they reach the pros they are further behind the ball than players from other programs.

 

I implore you to see reason, Shep. You're infatuated with his speed and arm size and numbers, but he hasn't shown qualities of being a successful NFL QB yet. Graham Harrell's production is unrivaled in college football, but he was playing from a system about as unconventional as Oregon's.

 

That's not saying Mariota doesn't have potential, but he's not even close to being an NFL ready QB.

[nickers]

no on mallet.

 

i'd prefer they get a guy who can read a defense and is a min. 6'4".

 

someone smart enough to call an audible and quick enough to step up in the pocket when needed.

 

being a non-redneck is a bonus, being a vanilla ice wanna be is out also.....

Only problem is..no audible system in Norv Turners offense...

[Flyin J]

I don't trust any QB coming out of Oregon since Joey Harrington. That's not a bias, it's because they aren't true QB's.

 

Oregon has stocked their roster with so much speed at every position and play such an unconventional style that their QB's don't face true defenses. Opposing teams are forced to keep their nickel backs on the field the entire game, and normally field a spy for the game's duration as well.

 

The Oregon system kills QB's. They take players with genuine talent and let them post fantastic numbers in college, but when they reach the pros they are further behind the ball than players from other programs.

 

I implore you to see reason, Shep. You're infatuated with his speed and arm size and numbers, but he hasn't shown qualities of being a successful NFL QB yet. Graham Harrell's production is unrivaled in college football, but he was playing from a system about as unconventional as Oregon's.

 

That's not saying Mariota doesn't have potential, but he's not even close to being an NFL ready QB.

I don't get your hatred for Oregon QB's. The only example you have is Joey Harrington and he played there in like what, 2003-5? That was a completely different system then, and there's been bigger busts than Harrington. You talk about the offense they run like every coach in the NFL isn't takin pieces from it and implementing it themselves. Chip Kelly had tons of coaches from the NFL bangin on his door trying to learn somethin from him. That got him where he is now. Sure they haven't produced a good QB yet but not a single one of them has had the talent of Mariota. The kid is for real. He has all the tools so it really just comes down to mental capacity and dedication. He's a gamer though.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I don't get your hatred for Oregon QB's. The only example you have is Joey Harrington and he played there in like what, 2003-5? That was a completely different system then, and there's been bigger busts than Harrington. You talk about the offense they run like every coach in the NFL isn't takin pieces from it and implementing it themselves. Chip Kelly had tons of coaches from the NFL bangin on his door trying to learn somethin from him. That got him where he is now. Sure they haven't produced a good QB yet but not a single one of them has had the talent of Mariota. The kid is for real. He has all the tools so it really just comes down to mental capacity and dedication. He's a gamer though.

My example of Joey Harrington was an example of the last decent NFL QB to come out of there. Every QB they've had since then has put up good to great numbers and exactly zero of them have amounted to anything in the NFL.

 

And you are right, teams do take pieces from their offense. Pieces.

 

Their offense is predicated on being the faster team on the field. That's the staple of their offense-run by everyone. In the NFL, that won't happen.

 

Mariota has the size and speed to be a good NFL QB but he's shown me exactly nothing to maker believe he will be. He has no pressure...ever. When the pocket does start to collapse, he's already 5 yards downfield. When his first option isn't five yards behind the safety, he checks down to the RB that's either blocked and released or flared out to the flanks. There's literally only two or three examples I've found of him throwing to a covered receiver that wasn't a check down.

 

Of course, he has the physical tools. But that's not then entire story.

[nickers]

Yup, absolutely makes me sick to my stomach to think what would be if Brian would've just slid the right way. I have no way to prove of course, but I have no doubt in my mind that we would be right there with KC as this year's feelgood story. It felt like the '80s again for those 2.1 games.

 

It really did and soon as BW came back in My heart just sunk...but we won despite him that game..

[jcam222]

Good thinking. Hey why not trade both firsts a second 2 thirds Joe Thomas and Gordon?

WSS

Steve thanks so much for the heavy and unwarranted sarcasm. I don't get enough of that shit at work already. When I posted this I thought to myself "I will post this so someone can give me more shit today". A second round pick and Campbell isn't close to mortgaging our future.

 

To those who KNOW Mallet isn't any good. congrats you should be employed by an NFL team making a very nice salary based on your skill. Most of us may think he is not elite but none of us know. Belichek must think he is decent as the backup to Brady. He thought the same about Hoyer.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Steve thanks so much for the heavy and unwarranted sarcasm. I don't get enough of that shit at work already. When I posted this I thought to myself "I will post this so someone can give me more shit today". A second round pick and Campbell isn't close to mortgaging our future.

 

To those who KNOW Mallet isn't any good. congrats you should be employed by an NFL team making a very nice salary based on your skill. Most of us may think he is not elite but none of us know. Belichek must think he is decent as the backup to Brady. He thought the same about Hoyer.

It's not happening. Drop it.

[jcam222]

It's not happening. Drop it.

LOL when you start signing my paycheck you can tell me to drop it. I don't give a fuck if we sign him or not. I am quite sure you are right and its not going to happen. It is valid conversation though and I don't need to take shit off someone because they don't happen to agree.