What's wrong with Derek Carr?

[jrb12711]

Sorry if this was pointed out in another thread but I didn't see anything. Since the Browns are certainly going QB, I've begun watching some highlights and games of the top guys. The one QB that has come up better than anyone else to me is Derek Carr. He's tall, strong, and quick enough to do everything in the NFL. He throws a quick, accurate football and has that Big Ben-esque escapability factor. The only knock I've seen so far is that his brother didn't pan out in the NFL. How that is even a thing I don't know but that's what I've read.

 

Additionally, the guy has years of experience and is a fifth year senior. Is there something I'm missing about him that doesn't scream franchise QB?

 

 

[miktoxic]

i wouldn't mind him if he was there with our second first rounder.

[The Gipper]

I may not mind if they took him with their first first rounder.

[jrb12711]

i wouldn't mind him if he was there with our second first rounder.

 

If he keeps playing the way he is now there's no way he'll be there at the Colts pick, especially with Mariota out and Mettenberger with a torn ACL. I'd be totally content at this point to draft him with our first pick.

[miktoxic]

if the FO thinks he's the guy.....pull the trigger.

 

we're gonna have to make the pick sooner or later anyways. i think a lot of clubs that are are now going to rethink this whole QB class since mariota is out of the running and mettenberger's knee might never be the same. some might fix other probs with the team and go with some old rust-bucket vet or pick a fifth rounder and see if he can perform. there are different ways to go about building your team.

 

you know we do need other help at other positions.

 

what i saw of carr last week he looked great, but so did the opposing QB, who actually won the game.

 

by the time the draft comes around these guys will be put in a bubble and shaken around so much the pundits heads will spin and at the end of the day it's still all a crap shoot.

[Shep]

Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.

[miktoxic]

well then fuck that cuz we shouldn't trade up. where is hundley going to land? your boy boyd? etc. etc. there will be plenty of QB talent staring us in the face wherever we land in the top 10.

[gftChris]

well then fuck that cuz we shouldn't trade up. where is hundley going to land? your boy boyd? etc. etc. there will be plenty of QB talent staring us in the face wherever we land in the top 10.

There's still enough QBs with a first round grade - Bridgewater, Manziel, Carr, Hundley, Mettengberger - that there'll be one with the colts' pick - and chances are most/all the QBs that are there with our first pick will be there with our second, because the teams picking below us generally have the QB sorted.

[The Gipper]

Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.

Hell, the Browns could end up drafting in the top 5. Will they be favored to win any game the rest of the way?

[Shep]

Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.

 

What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.

 

Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.

 

If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.

 

Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.

 

Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.

[jrb12711]

I can see them losing out, easily.

 

As for Carr, you need to watch some of his tape from previous years. He's a fifth year SR for a reason, it took him awhile to get to this point.

 

Is that a good or bad thing?

 

It shows inprovement IMO, but some are skeptical that it took him that long to "get it" and that the "system" kinda took over.

 

Carr will not be given 5 seasons in Cleveland to "get it"

 

If it took him that long to get it in a conference if cupcakes, the NFL May not be his speed.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the tape of him this year. But he looked an awful lot like Weeden under pressure in the past against lesser competition.

 

Basically, I'm just trying to find a reason not to fall in love. I'm still on the fence.

 

Interesting, I haven't heard anyone say that really but it makes sense. I would tend to say that once you "get it" it's there for good. The problem for Weeden IMO is that never got to that "get it" moment in college. Just like Blaine Gabbert, people fell in love with his measurables instead of his game tape and hoped they would grow in the NFL. I agree with you though, Carr's tape this year looks fantastic. Also, despite what you feel about his brother it can't hurt to have a 10 year vet as a big brother for guidance (assuming they get along).

[ClevelandFanForLife]

I've been looking at Carr over the past couple of weeks and he has some nice attributes. Strong arm, good enough mobility (like Aaron Rodgers) and accurate. However, he really struggles with pre-snap reads and can sling the ball around a little when pressured. Both of those things can be controlled with the right coaching however. Is be fine at this point with taking him.

[Tour2ma]

Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.

 

From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.

 

Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.

 

Tour: What did Carr get?

Shep: He has not taken the test yet.

Tour: Exactly.....

 

Thought I'd save a little time...

[Suomi]

Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.

[ITHIKA]

Sorry if this was pointed out in another thread but I didn't see anything. Since the Browns are certainly going QB, I've begun watching some highlights and games of the top guys. The one QB that has come up better than anyone else to me is Derek Carr. He's tall, strong, and quick enough to do everything in the NFL. He throws a quick, accurate football and has that Big Ben-esque escapability factor. The only knock I've seen so far is that his brother didn't pan out in the NFL. How that is even a thing I don't know but that's what I've read.

 

Additionally, the guy has years of experience and is a fifth year senior. Is there something I'm missing about him that doesn't scream franchise QB?

 

 

His last name is Carr!

 

[miktoxic]

Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.

 

i can live with that. but there is a lot of factors that go into that reasoning.

 

first is carr the guy you really wanted now that the whole QB class has been turned upside down? was he your guy to begin with? do you say no to hoyer as a starter and have him serve as a backup considering the health of his knee? or is hoyer the starter, some bum as a backup and carr sit and learn?

 

or do you decide to go with position of ned (besides QB) with your first pick and choose either the best OL (RG/RT) or defensive monster, then choose a QB with our second first rounder? or just hold off all together with the QB pick until the later rounds and fix other positions of need?

 

who knows what this FO will do.

[BrownB499]

Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.

What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?

Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)

 

This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky

I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!

[hoorta]

Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.

 

 

Shep this is where we differ- and I think I've been pretty clear about it- I'm not averse to a trade up, but not a RGIII sell the ranch trade up. We traded up for Quinn, remember? And that was merely at the price of next year's first rounder and a second. I sort of get ill when I look back at wht those picks could have been had we not screwed up.

 

What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?

Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)

 

This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky

I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!

 

Hoyer will have had months longer than RGIII to rehab the knee. Lewis had a fractured fibula- that's the small bone in your lower leg. Unless he totally shattered it- not that big a deal, should be totally healed by now. There was a report of ligament damage somewhere- and I have no idea what or where that was- possible he tore the high ligament, or several. Even so given a year's time to heal, I'd be surprised if he isn't ready to go come training camp.

[miktoxic]

i just hope aslem puts down the iron beef jerkey.

[utzie]

What makes everyone so sure Hoyer's knee is gonna be good enough for him to be ready by the start of next season?

Most people are only about 80% at the 1yr mark after ACL surgery(Excluding AP of course)

 

This notion that both Hoyer and Lewis will be ready to go next September is pie in the sky

I hope the powers that be plan to be more prepared at QB & RB next august than they are right now!

 

I thought the same thing, but then I found an article the other day that Hoyer's injury wasn't as bad as originally thought and that they projected him to be back and healthy in 5-6 months. That means he SHOULD be ready to go in March-April, giving him plenty of time to continue to strengthen his knee before offseason stuff.

 

EDIT: Here's the link to the article http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/18/4853256/brian-hoyer-injury-browns-timetable

[Zombo]

Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.

 

From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.

 

 

Tour: What did Carr get?

Shep: He has not taken the test yet.

Tour: Exactly.....

 

Thought I'd save a little time...

 

I understand why NFL scouts use the wonderlic as a tool to help them evaluate the overall player.

 

But when fans (Shep) start using it as "see, he's smart, he'll be good" it's a bit silly.

 

2011: Blaine Gabbert 42 Cam Newton 21

 

Which one hasn't been able to handle the NFL?

 

These guys all scored under 30:

 

Matt Hasselbeck 1998 Boston College 29

Troy Aikman 1989 UCLA 29

John Elway 1983 Stanford 29

Drew Brees 2001 Purdue 28

Peyton Manning 1998 Tennessee 28

Joe Flacco 2008 Delaware 27

Jay Cutler 2006 Vanderbilt 26

Carson Palmer 2003 USC 26

Ben Roethlisberger 2004 Miami Ohio 25

Chad Pennington 2000 Marshall 25

Mark Brunel 1993 Washington 22

Brett Favre 1991 Southern Miss 22

Cam Newton 2011 Auburn 21

Michael Vick 2001 Virginia Tech 20

Daunte Culpepper 1999 Central Florida 18

Vinny Testaverde 1987 Miami 17

Steve Mcnair 1995 Alcorn State 15

Randall Cunningham 1985 UNLV 15

Jim Kelly 1983 Miami 15

Dan Marino 1983 Pittsburgh 15

Terry Bradshaw 1970 Louisiana tech 15

Donovan Mcnabb 1999 Syracuse 14

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Yeah, but he put up monster numbers as a Junior... and he did it with a bad shoulder. That was a big part of his maturation, just getting healthy. Actually, his career numbers are absurdly good, not just this year. Like "WHA???" good.

 

What I like is the natural "pop," like the ball shoots off his hand. When you watched, say, Anderson warm up next to Quinn (and I was a Quinn guy), you could really see the difference. Anderson, for his other faults, was born to throw a football. It shoots off his hand and maybe that's why he's still gainfully employed as a backup in Carolina.

 

Carr has three things over a DA: He's mobile, he's accurate all over the field, and he isn't stupid. DA got a 19 on his Wonderlic and seemed pretty much like he just tumbled off a turnip truck. Carr isn't like that at all.

 

If you want to drive the ball down the field, and Chud is obviously obsessed with it (even with Weeden throwing picks last Sunday), Bridgewater, Carr, and Hundley can all give you that. I don't think anybody can give it better than Carr although Mettenberger's close... but he was a statue BEFORE the knee injury.

 

Mik, here's the thing: You don't take the quarterback the league or the cosmos give you. That's why teams trade up for quarterbacks more than anything else combined. You get the quarterback you WANT, the one you believe is the right guy to lead your franchise for the next decade. It's not like a football position. Quarterback transcends that.

 

Sure, there are several guys who interest me. Like everyone alive, I'd love to get Bridgewater. I like Derek Carr a lot. I'm smitten with Garoppolo's natural motion and crazy accuracy and can't wait to see how he does during Senior Bowl week. I was let down by Tajh a couple times this year and he might have problems that can't be fixed... but he has so much that recommends him (quick release, big arm, great wheels, great character). He has some tendencies, however, that haven't been cleaned up in a bajillion starts, though, and that's troubling.

Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.

 

Sanchez, bust.

Gabbert, bust.

Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.

Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.

Campbell, bust.

 

Manuel, we'll see.

RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.

 

Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.

 

I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.

[ballpeen]

Mariota dropping out puts Carr right behind Bridgewater and almost a lock for the top 5. If the Browns love him, they'll have to trade up to make sure they get him.

Than I don't do it unless the extra pick is a 3rd rounder....but it won't be. There are going to be teams interested in this or that QB and you'll have half a dozen teams looking to land Clowney. Moving up to any top slot is going to command a permium.

[jrb12711]

Yup... if pressured he makes some really stupid throws.

 

From what I've seen Carr has a gunslinger mentality that I am not sure he can dial down.

 

I don't think it's possible to make worse throws than Weeden though fortunately haha. What exactly do you mean by gunslinger? I've heard that phrase used by so many people in so many ways it's lost all meaning to me. I usually think of the Brett Favre type of guy. Someone who is going to make stupid mistakes but moreso use his talents to make tough throws (If they're good).

[miktoxic]

well as a detractor of moving up......there are two ways to go.

 

you pick best player available at every position neede except QB. are we really expecting afcn title next year even if hoyer is healthy? maybe. only if we fill those other positions of need.

 

now if you want to go franchise QB..let hoyer start next (praying that his knee is heeled and he learned how to slide) have weeds or campbell (or neither by signing a vet backup FA) and aim squarely at the 2015 when mariota and maybe even winston comes out?

[jcam222]

Draft Carr. Start Hoyer. Hoyer stays healthy and plays the entire 2014 season. Carr starts when "ready", or when Hoyer gets injured in 2015 season.

The problem is to get Carr you likely have to take him in the top 5. Teams then seem to feel obligated to GIVE the job to the rookie instead of make him earn it. They try to justify taking them that high.

[Shep]

With a rookie cap there's a lot less pressure to start a rookie in the opener. If Hoyer is healthy and plays as well as he did for us this season, the only way you sit him is if the rookie simply takes the job in camp and preseason by playing better. Basically, what Russell Wilson did to whatsisname in Seattle.

 

There's still a lot of shifting around to come. Still some risers and fallers. Only think I feel pretty certain of is that Brian Hoyer's existence (29, 3 starts, coming off injury) won't change the team's plans. And my sense is that a long-term, high-end answer at QB is job #1.

 

And again: I really like Hoyer. I wish he'd played all season.

[jcam222]

Of all of the starting QB's this season, only a few were involved in a trade up, and the success rate isn't as high as it should be.

 

Sanchez, bust.

Gabbert, bust.

Cutler, solid QB, but not on Broncos any longer.

Flacco, good QB. Won a Super Bowl.

Campbell, bust.

 

Manuel, we'll see.

RG3, we'll see...but it's not looking promising.

 

Many of those trades only involved moving up a couple spaces and surrendering an extra second or third round pick.

 

I don't believe the notion that teams that move up to take their guy are more successful. They're just ballsier. The success rate is about the same as not moving up and taking a QB, honestly.

I agree completely on this. I am not sure its as much they are ballsier as it is they are more desperate.

[alwardc4]

Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.

 

Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?

[jcam222]

Manning, Rivers, Smith, Luck, Locker, Big Rape, Flacco, Dalton, Brady, Tannehill, Manuel, Foles, Romo, Manning, Griffin, Brees, Newton, Glennon, Ryan, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford, Kaepernick, Wilson.

 

Anybody know what these 24 QBs have in common?

None of them have ever played for Cleveland.

 

LOL I will bite what is your common thread?