What's wrong with Derek Carr?

[alwardc4]

They are all better than hoyer.

Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

They are all better than hoyer.

Certainly some of you will take exception to a few, but i left a couple off too.

They should be, considering nearly all of them are first round picks.

 

Outside of Romo, none of them should even be in the same conversation as Hoyer, based on draft status.

 

That doesn't change the fact that Hoyer is the best QB on our roster and will be on our roster next season as well.

 

Nobody is saying "don't take a QB." What we're saying is there is nobody worth trading up for.

 

The general consensus is that this draft is devoid of any true frontrunner, excluding Bridgewater.

 

Why trade up for an unknown when an equally unknown quarterback will be there when we pick at 7?

[Shep]

Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.

 

But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.

[BigJim]

The only thing wrong with Derek Carr is that he is David Carr's brother. Look at his game film and you will be impressed.

I hope the Browns draft this kid because the weapons and coaching are already in place. This kid will easily beat out Hoyer and start from Day 1 for the next 15 years.

 

Here is one scout's take:

 

Bridgewater

 

"Louisville quarterback Teddy Twatwater is a favorite of mine, ranked as my second-best quarterback prospect. That's not a sentiment shared by some NFL teams. One scout I spoke with this week complained about Bridgewater's "terrible body" and the team's weak schedule. The junior hasn't yet declared, but there are rumors his value around the league isn't quite on par with the media's love affair with him."

 

 

Carr

 

"I spoke with three area scouts this week who all like Derek Carr as a top-five pick. Possible destinations for him include Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Oakland, but keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns. Carr fits the profile that general manager Michael Lombardi and head coach Rob Chudzinski want in their quarterback."

 

Last 2 games:

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Ballsy pick would be to take Hundley at 7 even though you want him to sit for a year. Because in 2014 in the spanky new uniforms, you might have the equivalent of a #1 overall and one helluva roster around him.

 

But it feels like a coin flip whether he comes out. Mariota staying in and Mettenberger getting hurt makes him very popular, I'm betting... and he gets the grade he wants to hear.

I think Mora re-signing will be enough to keep him in college for another year.

 

With Bortles moving up the board, Hundley's stock is seeing a slight decrease.

 

He could be the #1 overall next year, or the year after that.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The only thing wrong with Derek Carr is that he is David Carr's brother. Look at his game film and you will be impressed.

I hope the Browns draft this kid because the weapons and coaching are already in place. This kid will easily beat out Hoyer and start from Day 1 for the next 15 years.

 

Here is one scout's take:

 

Bridgewater

 

"Louisville quarterback Teddy Twatwater is a favorite of mine, ranked as my second-best quarterback prospect. That's not a sentiment shared by some NFL teams. One scout I spoke with this week complained about Bridgewater's "terrible body" and the team's weak schedule. The junior hasn't yet declared, but there are rumors his value around the league isn't quite on par with the media's love affair with him."

 

 

Carr

 

"I spoke with three area scouts this week who all like Derek Carr as a top-five pick. Possible destinations for him include Houston, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Oakland, but keep an eye on the Cleveland Browns. Carr fits the profile that general manager Michael Lombardi and head coach Rob Chudzinski want in their quarterback."

 

Last 2 games:

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/

Disagree. There's more not to like, including the fact that his numbers spiked once Fresno State hired Dave Schramm as OC last season.

 

The offensive system run in Fresno State is a spread based, quick pass influenced, get your playmakers the ball in space style offense, hence the reason Carr's completion percentage jumped nearly 10% in one year.

 

They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically. Carr benefits from being asked to make high percentage throws. His highlight reels feature more plays from his receivers and running backs than they do NFL caliber throws.

 

He has the physical tools, but at this point he's more the product of an effective system than he is a superior quarterback.

 

His mechanics break down when facing pressure, he's run nearly three quarters of his plays from the gun, he telegraphs passes by the way he sets up in the gun, he drops the ball below shoulder level when pressured, and his drop back is inconsistent at best.

 

Once you look past the pretty throws, you see glimpses of his brother.

 

He reminds me of a poor mans Eli Manning. When he's good, he's good, but when he's under pressure he collapses.

 

 

http://factoryofsadness.sportsblog.com/posts/217258/201_nfl_draft_qb_scouting.html

[BigJim]

Sure his numbers spiked a little going from a Pro Style offense to a Spread quick hitting offense. But you don't think it has anything to do with going from his first year starting to his second and third year starting? He is way more athletic and has a higher Football IQ than his brother. I think you're just down on him because you hate his brother.

The kid is also a genius compared with other prospects.

http://www.fresnobee...carr-named.html

 

For those who say he can't play in a Pro Style Offense, here is a video of his first season playing in a Pro Style offense.

http://vimeo.com/34423414

 

Carr’s ratio of 108 TD passes to 21 INTs is the best of any FBS QB with at least 100 TD passes.

[BigJim]

"They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."

 

Do you actually watch his games or videos?

 

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

 

You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.

[miktoxic]

what i've seen from all of these guys in big games (including bridgewater tonite) would have me picking the best defensive player on the board or the best wr on the oard or the best..........like i said before carr looked great against who?? louisville over cincy, really? the great karmac coulda picked that.

 

these guys are all smoke and mirrors.

 

i'll betcha 3 years down the road someone's 3rd round pick of QB will still be playing and at a higher rate than any of these guys in the first round of 2014 draft.

 

let me know if you got a six pack in ya.

[utzie]

I was at the UC vs Louisville game last night and, as a whole, I wasn't really impressed with Bridgewater until the 4th quarter. Cincy was pretty much playing a cover 2 all night and I'd say 85% of Bridgewater's throws were on 7-10 yard curls. Because of that, his stats were pretty skewed and on anything other than those curls, he wasn't really completing anything.

 

However, I was really impressed with his elusiveness in the pocket. There were times, especially in the 4th, when we all thought for sure he was sacked where he threw 2 or 3 guys off him and made a play. I'm still in shock at the TD to Copeland when everyone thought he was just throwing it away and it ended up being a perfect strike to the corner of the end zone while he side armed it basically falling down. Then the 4th and 12 conversion where he shook off two guys and ran for the 1st.

 

All in all, I don't know if he's worth a top 5 pick, but he certainly knows how to kick it in late in games and lead his team to a win. The Browns could use someone with his abilities, but I wouldn't trade up for him, especially not to number 1 overall.

[The Gipper]

I was at the UC vs Louisville game last night and, as a whole, I wasn't really impressed with Bridgewater until the 4th quarter. Cincy was pretty much playing a cover 2 all night and I'd say 85% of Bridgewater's throws were on 7-10 yard curls. Because of that, his stats were pretty skewed and on anything other than those curls, he wasn't really completing anything.

 

However, I was really impressed with his elusiveness in the pocket. There were times, especially in the 4th, when we all thought for sure he was sacked where he threw 2 or 3 guys off him and made a play. I'm still in shock at the TD to Copeland when everyone thought he was just throwing it away and it ended up being a perfect strike to the corner of the end zone while he side armed it basically falling down. Then the 4th and 12 conversion where he shook off two guys and ran for the 1st.

 

All in all, I don't know if he's worth a top 5 pick, but he certainly knows how to kick it in late in games and lead his team to a win. The Browns could use someone with his abilities, but I wouldn't trade up for him, especially not to number 1 overall.

He will be no lower than a Top 3 pick simply because he is perceived as the best QB in the draft.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

"They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically."

 

Do you actually watch his games or videos?

 

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

 

You have lost all credibility with your slanted, bias analysis and hatred for Derek Carr.

Yes, I do. Quoting stat blurbs from other "scouts" and watching Carr's YouTube highlight video's doesn't make you an expert.

 

First, let's address the fact that your aforementioned statistic doesn't begin to include the whole story. Half of those 20+ yard completions were short passes, mainly screens.

 

Fresno State runs a quick screen offense in place of their running game. Half of Derek Carr's passes don't travel more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. They are the very definition of a YAC offense.

 

Against Nevada, Fresno State ran 10+ screens/ quick hitches in the first half alone..

 

One scout broke down three games from Carr this season and calculated a whopping 34% of his attempts were passes completed behind the line of scrimmage. That's an average of one pass every set of downs. 77% of Carr's passes this season have been 10 yards or less downfield, compared to 62% from both Teddy Twatwater and Tajh Boyd

 

In the same sample size, one scout found that Carr's adjusted completion percentage of 10+ yard passes is only 53% (factoring in drops and throw-aways). Compare that to Boyd's 62% and Mettenberger's 70% in a sample of the same size.

 

Here's a visual breakdown of passes thrown in games from Carr's junior season.

 

http://draftfalcons.com/breaking-down-college-footballs-top-quarterbacks-fresno-states-derek-carr/

 

This isn't bias of Derek Carr. On the contrary, I like Derek Carr. I think he has a great story. But I don't believe he's a first round prospect.

 

I'm not one to just mindlessly believe the hype without doing my own research. And in that research, I compare prospects to the college careers of successful NFL QB's. I don't blow my load over yards and touchdowns like everyone else. There's hundreds of unemployed former college phenoms with thousands of yards and hundreds of touchdowns. That doesn't equal NFL success, however.

 

 

The best numbers to go by are his sophomore seasons numbers, which are good, don't get me wrong. That, in my opinion, is the best representation of Carr as an NFL QB. Nothing spectacular, similar to Bridgewater's, Bortles' and Hundley's, yet against much weaker competition.

 

Personally, I really couldn't care less what you think of my opinion. The statistical analysis is enough to make anyone wary of Carr as an NFL prospect.

[jrb12711]

Disagree. There's more not to like, including the fact that his numbers spiked once Fresno State hired Dave Schramm as OC last season.

 

The offensive system run in Fresno State is a spread based, quick pass influenced, get your playmakers the ball in space style offense, hence the reason Carr's completion percentage jumped nearly 10% in one year.

 

They rely on quick screens and short passes, only stretching the field sporadically. Carr benefits from being asked to make high percentage throws. His highlight reels feature more plays from his receivers and running backs than they do NFL caliber throws.

 

He has the physical tools, but at this point he's more the product of an effective system than he is a superior quarterback.

 

His mechanics break down when facing pressure, he's run nearly three quarters of his plays from the gun, he telegraphs passes by the way he sets up in the gun, he drops the ball below shoulder level when pressured, and his drop back is inconsistent at best.

 

Once you look past the pretty throws, you see glimpses of his brother.

 

He reminds me of a poor mans Eli Manning. When he's good, he's good, but when he's under pressure he collapses.

 

 

http://factoryofsadness.sportsblog.com/posts/217258/201_nfl_draft_qb_scouting.html

 

Admittedly I haven't done much research on QB's this year like I usually do (damn graduate school). But a lot of the scouting reports I'm reading pretty much say what you're saying, but that he's vastly improved in the areas such as against pressure. I would tend to agree that he isn't perfect yet but that's something that could improve. I could care less about the numbers because I'd agree that's a system thing. I'd still argue that quick passes require certain skill to complete effectively, something he does very well.

 

I guess fundamentally it's getting harder and harder to find a non-system type of QB prospect. With the spread/read-option becoming the norm in college football, almost every QB is coming from that type of system nowadays. I think, if anything there might need to a shift against the mold of rookie QB's playing week 1. That's what I'd hope if we drafted Carr. I don't think Hoyer is Jesus Christ, but he showed enough to me to have confidence in him as a starter.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

Admittedly I haven't done much research on QB's this year like I usually do (damn graduate school). But a lot of the scouting reports I'm reading pretty much say what you're saying, but that he's vastly improved in the areas such as against pressure. I would tend to agree that he isn't perfect yet but that's something that could improve. I could care less about the numbers because I'd agree that's a system thing. I'd still argue that quick passes require certain skill to complete effectively, something he does very well.

 

I guess fundamentally it's getting harder and harder to find a non-system type of QB prospect. With the spread/read-option becoming the norm in college football, almost every QB is coming from that type of system nowadays. I think, if anything there might need to a shift against the mold of rookie QB's playing week 1. That's what I'd hope if we drafted Carr. I don't think Hoyer is Jesus Christ, but he showed enough to me to have confidence in him as a starter.

As I've been saying all year, though, I would rather have Bortles.

 

Bortles is bigger, they are equally as mobile, Bortles has just as good of an arm, he's performed well against much better talent than Carr has faced, and his elusiveness in the pocket is much better.

 

Carr's claim to fame is his ridiculous stat line, which is heavily padded by short passes against awful competition.

 

Based on measurables, Bortles is a better prospect. Based off competition, Bortles is a better prospect. Based off NFL readiness, I believe Bortles to be a better prospect.

 

Bortles reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. He's a big bodied player who makes plays and eludes the pass rush without having to run.

[BigJim]

Blake Bortles is a right handed Tebow. Have you actually looked closely at his throwing motion? He has a Tebow windup and throws a very wobbly ball. 22 TD's 7 Ints? That is a horrific TD/Int ratio. 5 TO's in one game? 20 Sacks ? Multiple Fumbles? Might as well stick with Brandon Wheeden.

 

This video will pretty much sum up Blake Bortles at the NFL level. All check downs and multiple TO's.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

[jrb12711]

As I've been saying all year, though, I would rather have Bortles.

 

Bortles is bigger, they are equally as mobile, Bortles has just as good of an arm, he's performed well against much better talent than Carr has faced, and his elusiveness in the pocket is much better.

 

Carr's claim to fame is his ridiculous stat line, which is heavily padded by short passes against awful competition.

 

Based on measurables, Bortles is a better prospect. Based off competition, Bortles is a better prospect. Based off NFL readiness, I believe Bortles to be a better prospect.

 

Bortles reminds me of Ben Roethlisberger. He's a big bodied player who makes plays and eludes the pass rush without having to run.

 

Just looking at a few videos he does seem to have a really extended and crappy throwing motion, what do you think of that? Like I said I haven't watched much tape of anyone so I'm just interstesd to hear from people who have. As far as competition, there seems to be a good amount of QB's who didn't play against elite teams in college.

[BigJim]

As I've been saying all year, though, I would rather have Bortles.

 

Bortles is bigger, they are equally as mobile, Bortles has just as good of an arm, he's performed well against much better talent than Carr has faced, and his elusiveness in the pocket is much better.

 

 

 

Sounds to me you're just a Bortles fanboy and will bash any other prospect. Carr runs a 4.56/40 and can side step and throw 65 yards with a flick of his wrist. His passes don't wobble and he has way more velocity and spiral on his passes than Bortles. Not to mention Carr has a very quick compact delivery and Bortles has a telegraphed Tebow delivery. Just look at the videos. They don't lie.

 

Carr side steps and launches ball 65 yards in the air with a flick of the wrist hitting WR in stride.

 

Blake Bortles Throwing motion and slow delivery

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Blake Bortles is a right handed Tebow. Have you actually looked closely at his throwing motion? He has a Tebow windup and throws a very wobbly ball. 22 TD's 7 Ints? That is a horrific TD/Int ratio. 5 TO's in one game? 20 Sacks ? Multiple Fumbles? Might as well stick with Brandon Wheeden.

 

This video will pretty much sum up Blake Bortles at the NFL level. All check downs and multiple TO's.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

Blake Bortles is a right handed Tebow. Have you actually looked closely at his throwing motion? He has a Tebow windup and throws a very wobbly ball. 22 TD's 7 Ints? That is a horrific TD/Int ratio. 5 TO's in one game? 20 Sacks ? Multiple Fumbles? Might as well stick with Brandon Wheeden.

 

This video will pretty much sum up Blake Bortles at the NFL level. All check downs and multiple TO's.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

 

"

Bortles moves well for his size with quick feet to avoid the rush and is a hard-nosed finisher as a ballcarrier. He does an excellent job anticipating pressure and shows outstanding feel and vision despite all the noise around him, always knowing where his targets are on the field. Bortles quickly surveys, identifies his reads and delivers with an Andrew Luck-type release and arm strength. The Ben Roethlisberger comparisons are overdone, but Bortles might best resemble the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback over other college prospects in recent memory. - Dane Brugler, NFLDraftScout.com"

 

Yeah, sure sounds like Tebow.

 

Bortles is the second rated QB prospect by Scouts Inc. He's drawing comparisons to Luck in terms of physical attributes, talent level, mobility, and arm strength.

 

His biggest knock is that he has a gunslinger mentality, makes questionable decisions early in games and needs more polish.

 

His TD-INT ratio through 11 games is similar to Luck's through 11 games in his senior season. (22/7 - 30/9)

 

Bortles throws an INT on 2.2 % of his attempts, compared to Luck's 2.7% and Bridgewater's 1%.

 

Bortles has put up similar numbers to Luck and Bridgewater with an inferior team while playing a harder or nearly equally as hard schedule.

 

SOS (pure ELO)

 

2013 UCF 86.3

2013 Louisville 84.0

2011 Stanford 87.3

 

Bortles outperformed Bridgewater head to head in a victory and passes for over 350 yards against a top ranked Carolina defense, a game in which they lost by only three points. This is the same Carolina team that just spanked a ranked Clemson team only a week ago.

 

Bortles has near identical ratings as Bridgewater and Luck, running an offense with similar concepts. UCF's offensive coordinator and HC-in-waiting, Charlie Taaffe, adapts his offense to the skills of his players. They run a complete set, with plays out of 2-back formations, single-back, 3-4 WR sets, 12 formations, they run it all. UCF isn't a system offense, Bortles has had to throw every route imaginable, and has done it well. They rely on quick slants, crosses and outs but nearly always have the field stretched by a receiver.

 

Since I've heard exactly zero comparisons to Tebow from people who know a lot more than you or I, and since I've watched every game film on Bortles in their entirety and have never made that connection, I respectfully disregard that opinion.

 

I'm beginning to think that you don't actually do any scouting on your own, you just pop around to Walterfootball and NFLDraftScout and read their opinions, then look at a stat line and try to imagine how a guy plays. Maybe an occasional YouTube highlight video here and there.

 

You've struck out twice now in your analyses.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

First of all, Bortles video is at a slower frame rate than Carr's.

 

Secondly, Carr threw up a pass to a WR that was 5-10 yards behind the safety. Hardly a ringing endorsement for solid QB play.

 

 

Thirdly, that's hardly a Tebow-esque release. It's extended, and longer than ideal, but his two biggest concerns (extended release, footwork) are better than most of the rest of the QB's in the draft and are things that can be fixed with NFL coaching.

 

To move up and take a guy who's the product of a system and his claim to fame is throwing 10+ screens per game in an up-tempo offense and hitting wide open flankers when the safeties bite is ridiculous.

 

Carr plays a much weaker schedule (61st ranked BCS schedule) and is the product of a system. He could throw for 20,000 yards per season, but it doesn't change those two facts.

 

There are four QB's in this draft I would rather have than Carr.

[BigJim]

I do my own research and watch every throw. Sure, Carr plays in a pass happy spread quick hitting offense, but that isn't his fault. He has to throw those short passes because their o-line sucks and that supplements their run game. However, when they let him rip it, He not only CAN make every throw, he DOES make every throw: Outs, Fades, Streaks, Back-shoulder, in-stride, on the run. He even shows the grasp of the game as he calls plays at the line.

 

Carr makes all those throws every game, I haven't seen Bortles make those throws. You can find info on any site to prop one prospect up etc... I like to do it with the eye ball test. To me Bortles is just meh..... Carr is the perfect QB for Chud/Norv's system.

 

Why don't you provide some actual video to backup all your data? I've seen most of Carr's and Bortle's throws and it's not even close. Carr is head and shoulders above Bortles. Most mocks have Carr as a top 5 pick and Bortles isn't even listed yet.

 

I don't give a crap about level of competition or system. I look at the mechanics, intangibles, ball placement and arm talent.

 

Scouts Inc. is crap. They get paid to prop up prospects. McShay didn't even want to put Cam Newton on his board. He had D'Qwan Bowers and Nick Fairley rated 1 and 2 as well as Blaine Gabbert rated in top 5.

 

Haha McShay doesn't know dick about QB's. He has Blaine Gabbert rated 10 spots above Newton.

 

"Go with Missouri's Blaine Gabbert -- who I rate 10 spots higher than Newton -- at quarterback. Note: I'm hearing things about LSU CB Patrick Peterson and Georgia WR A.J. Green, but based on positional value, it's hard to believe the Panthers would go in either of those directions."

 

Link:http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/insider/news/story?page=mcshaymockdraft6.0

[BigJim]

Bortles outperformed Bridgewater head to head in a victory and passes for over 350 yards against a top ranked Carolina defense, a game in which they lost by only three points. This is the same Carolina team that just spanked a ranked Clemson team only a week ago.

 

 

 

You might want to look at the videos again. You're making this way too easy for me to refute your claims.

 

Here is his game vs. Louisville. This is all his throws. He completes exactly 1 pass that travels more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. He also had a back breaking pick in the end zone when they were inside the red zone.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-louisville-2013/

 

Here is his game vs. South Carolina. His team was in the game in spite of his horrid play. He had 2 back breaking Int's and 2 fumbles. He had 3 completions that actually traveled more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. 2 of those were adequate passes. One was high and behind his receiver who made an awesome catch and run for a TD. Most of his yards were YAC.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

[The Gipper]

You might want to look at the videos again. You're making this way too easy for me to refute your claims.

 

Here is his game vs. Louisville. This is all his throws. He completes exactly 1 pass that travels more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. He also had a back breaking pick in the end zone when they were inside the red zone.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-louisville-2013/

 

Here is his game vs. South Carolina. His team was in the game in spite of his horrid play. He had 2 back breaking Int's and 2 fumbles. He had 3 completions that actually traveled more than 10 yards beyond the Line of Scrimmage. 2 of those were adequate passes. One was high and behind his receiver who made an awesome catch and run for a TD. Most of his yards were YAC.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/blake-bortles-vs-south-carolina-2013/

Are you the guy from the Jim Croce song?

[BigJim]

Derek Carr Last 2 games.

16 and 8 completions that travel more than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/

 

You are absolutely "CORRECT" when you say Carr only completes passes behind the line of scrimmage and all his yards are YAC while praising Bortles with having a gun. He has a gun alright, too bad it's a water pistol.

[bringbackbrownie2]

Derek Carr Last 2 games.

16 and 8 completions that travel more than 10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-san-jose-state-2013/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/derek-carr-vs-new-mexico-2013/

 

You are absolutely "CORRECT" when you say Carr only completes passes behind the line of scrimmage and all his yards are YAC while praising Bortles with having a gun. He has a gun alright, too bad it's a water pistol.

 

Sorry but TCPO is right on this one. Anyone who has watched Fresno St. play would notice that Carr throws short quick passes on most of his throws. What bothers me is the number of times he will throw short of the chains on 3rd down and just hopes his WR will break a tackle and get the 1st down. This works a lot in college if you have talented WRs and play a weak schedule, but it won't work in the pros. I think we all know from watching DA and Weeden that a franchise QB isn't built on arm strength. I don't think Bortles has that great of an arm, but he has very good pocket presence so I see the comparison to BR as well. You don't need an amazing release if you can buy yourself extra time to throw.

 

All of that said, I like Bortles way more than Carr but still would love to draft Garoppolo from Eastern Illinois. The guy has great accuracy and gets rid of the ball quickly. I would love to draft him in the second round and roll with Hoyer to start the year. Our two first rounders we can use on WR, TE, or a LB that can play in pass coverage. We need OL too, but have multiple 3rd rounders to use on OG.

[BigJim]

 

Sorry but TCPO is right on this one. Anyone who has watched Fresno St. play would notice that Carr throws short quick passes on most of his throws. What bothers me is the number of times he will throw short of the chains on 3rd down and just hopes his WR will break a tackle and get the 1st down. This works a lot in college if you have talented WRs and play a weak schedule, but it won't work in the pros. I think we all know from watching DA and Weeden that a franchise QB isn't built on arm strength. I don't think Bortles has that great of an arm, but he has very good pocket presence so I see the comparison to BR as well. You don't need an amazing release if you can buy yourself extra time to throw.

 

All of that said, I like Bortles way more than Carr but still would love to draft Garoppolo from Eastern Illinois. The guy has great accuracy and gets rid of the ball quickly. I would love to draft him in the second round and roll with Hoyer to start the year. Our two first rounders we can use on WR, TE, or a LB that can play in pass coverage. We need OL too, but have multiple 3rd rounders to use on OG.

One again another post that is all opinion and no proof whatsoever. Carr completes way more down field throws than any QB in College and that is a FACT. The proof is in the STATS and videos. Most of Carr's short throws go for negative or minimal gain. That actually hurts his YPA and QBR. Either you don't watch any film or you're just blind. You're also making an excuse for an obvious flaw in Bortle's throwing mechanics.

 

Carr is way faster than Bortles and can escape the rush a lot better. Carr runs a 4.56 40 http://www.gobulldogs.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/derek_carr_460844.html and Bortles runs a 4.89 http://mocknfldraft.com/Blake%20Bortles.cfm

 

Carr has over 552 attempts and has only given up 8 sacks with 0 fumbles. Bortles has given up 20 sacks with only 316 attempts with multiple fumbles. Carr is more accurate, 70% to 68% with more attempts. Most of Bortles throws are thrown way short of the first down marker, FACT. Look at the videos of him I posted. The only reason why Carr's YPA is lower is because the offense he runs forces him to throw a lot of short passes behind the LOS instead of handing off.

 

I just find it hilarious that posters will try to make up and pass it off as fact with no proof to discredit Carr. He will likely go Top 5 so be lucky if Cleveland is even in position to draft him. He could be gone by the first 3 picks.

 

You're either TCPO's buddy or this is another account he posts from.

[bringbackbrownie2]

One again another post that is all opinion and no proof whatsoever. Carr completes way more down field throws than any QB in College and that is a FACT. The proof is in the STATS and videos. Most of Carr's short throws go for negative or minimal gain. That actually hurts his YPA and QBR. Either you don't watch any film or you're just blind. You're also making an excuse for an obvious flaw in Bortle's throwing mechanics.

 

Carr is way faster than Bortles and can escape the rush a lot better. He has over 552 attempts and has only given up 8 sacks with 0 fumbles. Bortles has given up 20 sacks with only 316 attempts with multiple fumbles. Carr is more accurate, 70% to 68% with more attempts. Most of Bortles throws are thrown way short of the first down marker, FACT. Look at the videos of him I posted. The only reason why Carr's YPA is lower is because the offense he runs forces him to throw a lot of short passes behind the LOS instead of handing off.

 

You're either TCPO's buddy or this is another account he posts from.

 

I can assure you I am not TCPO. I just happen to agree with him in this instance. College stats don't mean shit in the pros. How the hell has Carr "given up" any sacks. You aren't even accounting for the offensive line. And since when does having more passing attempts make someone the better QB. It could also imply that Fresno St. doesn't run the ball and their defense sucks. I never said Bortles was fast. Ben Roethlisberger isn't fast either. They both can move around the pocket and avoid tackles but are always looking down field buying time for their WRs to get open. Pocket presence does not always mean giving up on a play and scrambling for a first down. Carr doesn't know what a real pass rusher looks like. He can throw the ball deep but relies on short passes and YAC for most of his throws. If you watched the Fresno St. offense at all this year you would see this to be true. Sure Bortles throws short passes too. Every QB does. Drew Brees probably throws more screens and dump offs than any QB in the NFL and still racks up lots of yards. I just like Bortles as the better NFL guy. But again, Garoppollo is still my favorite QB in this class. Carr would be a huge reach with our 1st pick in the 1st round.

[BigJim]

I'm not going to try and defend or argue about this any longer. I've already presented all the FACTs with STATS and videos not made up opinions. The Browns likely won't be able to draft Carr anyways unless they move up. Let's just agree to disagree. I just find if laughable that TCPO and bringbackbrownie don't think he is a first rounder.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.

 

 

Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.

 

 

Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.

 

Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.

 

Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.

 

So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.

 

When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.

 

From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.

 

Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.

 

Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.

 

As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.

 

Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.

 

Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.

[BigJim]

Your facts and stats are, once again, skewed.

 

 

Carr attempts more downfield passes because he passes much more than Bortles and Bridgewater. That is a fact.

In a previous thread you wrote, "Carr sporadically throws downfield. All his passes are short throws." Once you were proven to be a fraud who tried to pass your biased opinions as the truth you're now trying to spin the stats in your favor. I guarantee you the majority of Carr's long pass completions are gained through the air and not YAC. That can't be said for TB and Bortles.

 

Per cfbstats, Carr has 40 completions of 25+ yards on the season on 552 pass attempts. That is 7.2% of Carr's throws go for at least 25 yards. That is a fact.

 

The only reason why his percentage is lower is because the offense calls him to throw short passes.

Bortles has 25 completions of 25+ yards on 400 pass attempts. That equates to 6.25%. That is a fact.

 

Bridgewater has 34 completions of 25+ of 419 pass attempts. That equates to 8.1%. That is a fact.

 

So, you're right in that he completes more passes, but his percentage is roughly just the same as everyone else. Keep in mind, that this stat also includes short passes that have gone for long gains, not just long passes. That is a fact.

 

I already posted their 20+ yard completions.

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

 

Once again, you had to change it to 25+ yards to try to skew it more towards your argument. The only reason why Peyton Manning has more yards and TD's than Colin Kaepernick is because the throws more.

 

When Carr is asked to throw long passes, he's hardly spectacular. Through a three game sample, Carr's completion percentage drops to near 50% on plays of 10 yards or longer. That's a 10-20% difference of many of the quarterbacks in this draft, with Mettenberger leading at 70%. Those are facts.

Seriously a random 3 game sample?

In his last 2 games Carr completed 24 passes that traveled more than 10 yards through the air beyond the Line of Scrimmage.

How many has TB and Bortles completed? I'm sure you can combine both their totals and it would still be under Carr's 24.

 

From what I can recall, Carr has taken exactly zero snaps from under center this season. This could be wrong, as I haven't watched film on Carr in about two weeks. Either way, Carr is taking more than or just about 95% of his snaps from shotgun, and throwing passes 10 yards or less 77% of the time. Of course his sack totals will be lower. A defender would have to get through the offensive line and run 5-7 yards behind the line in the matter of 2 seconds. Those are facts.

 

Playing under center or a Pro Style offense is the most overrated BS there is as to whether or not a college QB will successfully transfer to the NFL. Matt Barkley (Pro Style) Nick Foles (Spread) Drew Brees (Spread)

Yeah you can only succeed in the NFL if you played in a pro style offense in College. By the way, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady takes most of their snaps from the shotgun.

Each one of Carr's "amazing" numbers has a story behind it.

 

I would say so. The kid can flat out play.

Carr is a first round prospect based off his athleticism and his production, albeit as part of a system. Personally, I don't agree with it, but I can see why a team would want him early.

 

Carr's athleticism and arm talent is superior to TB and Bortles and that is a FACT. Yeah I'm sure every QB who played in a spread system has sucked at the NFL level. Brees sure sucks.

As I've said before, the best measure of Carr as a prospect is his sophomore season, before Schramm brought his system to Fresno.

 

Yeah ok so I guess he was a finished product his sophomore year which was his first year starting or getting any playing time.

Once again, the only thing you've had to really say is that Carr completes more passes downfield, when that's actually just another inflated stat. That is a fact.

 

Carr completes more downfield throws with more velocity and more accuracy than anyone else in College Football. Fact.

 

Carr has the physicality, that's about it. He's a system quarterback going against garbage talent. That is a fact.

 

At least Carr is destroying defenses in his mediocre conference and not putting up mediocre numbers like TB and Bortles in a mediocre conference. Yeah I guess the AAC is a Powerhouse Conference.

[Tour2ma]

first is carr the guy you really wanted now that the whole QB class has been turned upside down?

was he your guy to begin with?

 

THAT, my friend, is the key question. Unless the answer is yes, then folks are settling for an artificially elevated Carr out of desperation.

 

What exactly do you mean by gunslinger? I've heard that phrase used by so many people in so many ways it's lost all meaning to me. I usually think of the Brett Favre type of guy. Someone who is going to make stupid mistakes but moreso use his talents to make tough throws (If they're good).

 

Pretty much what I meant. Farve is my pictorial definition of gunslinger.

 

For all his notoriety Farve delivered 1 SB in his 16 years at GB. And in all those years GB had some stacked teams. As I posted in another thread... with gunslinger you will suffer years and years of pain in the hope that he will deliver one, magical season and deliver the goods.

 

That may sound good now, but it won't for long if it becomes our reality.

 

With a rookie cap there's a lot less pressure to start a rookie in the opener. If Hoyer is healthy and plays as well as he did for us this season, the only way you sit him is if the rookie simply takes the job in camp and preseason by playing better. Basically, what Russell Wilson did to whatsisname in Seattle.

 

I believe Flynn is the name you are looking for...

 

I disagree on the role of $$$ in generating pressure. High first round picks (top ten) are expected to start Game 1. Pressure declines as the round progresses and is gone by round two.

 

To me it's the pick investment... not the financial one. Were it financial, then Flynn would have been the Seattle starter... and quite possibly Cousins would have been the WSH QB for much of this year.

 

Why trade up for an unknown when an equally unknown quarterback will be there when we pick at 7?

 

Yup... or at 27... or at 39... or at...

 

In 11 games, Carr has 71 20+ yard completions

In 12 games, Bridgewater has 45 20+ yard completions

In 11 games, Blake Bortles has 46 20+ yard completions

 

Interesting (but understandable) how you completely abandoned your stats once they were discredited. YAC is a reality...

 

Carr side steps and launches ball 65 yards in the air with a flick of the wrist hitting WR in stride.

 

Flick of the wrist??? And you are accusing others of bias?