Message to Haslam:

[lodilobo]

Hopefully this is not too redundant, but I need to vent a little. You know, Mr. Haslam, there are a lot of fans here, that are about your age, so you should be able to identify with that, and see things from our perspective. We are extremely tired of the same old crap. The only thing that has changed since you became the owner, is that you have taken us to a new all time low. We are embarrased to admit that we are life long Browns fans. I don't consider myself to have any special considerations, just because I'm 63 years old, and remember when this team was respected by every other fan base, owner, and player in the NFL. The Browns of old typically were considered a playoff contender every season. I know some of us old guys like to think that because we've been around, to witness the team when the Browns were feared by opponents like the Steelers, Patriots, etc. that we are more connected to the team than the fans that grew up in the '70's, '80's. The only difference is that we were lucky to be around then, and so we still expect the team to return to the glory days. I'm happy that you have been able to realize your dream....to be an NFL owner, however, I have a couple of suggestions for you. How about changing the name of the team, the team colors, and everything else that suggests that this is the Cleveland Browns? In reality, this is not the Cleveland Browns. I know some of my fellow old farts will argue and oppose this to the death, but it is my opinion, so screw them. This is something that should have been done upon the assembly of the team in 1999. The result of that error has forced the real Cleveland Browns fans to witness the name and city being dragged through the mud until it has finally become the joke of all professional sports. Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Marion Motley, and Bernie Kosar didn't deserve that. As for the immediate future, I think the only way that you can regain a little respect from the fans and fellow NFL owners, not to mention the national media, would be to fire Banner immediately. He has contributed in no small way, to bringing the franchise to it's current state. The jury is still out on Lombardi, in my mind. Most of us don't care for the guy, but he could still come around to be a valuable GM. Banner is obviously a bad word around the NFL, so I don't know how you could possibly repair that situation without simply parting ways with him. You are the owner of the team, and whatever you decide will determine if your investments holds, increases, or reduces in value. If you continue as you're headed, don't be surprised to be fielding a team in an empty stadium, soon.

[The Gipper]

Scew that. If you want to root for another team with another name.....nothing is stopping you but your conscience.

[jcam222]

I dont want to change the team name either. Having said that he makes some very good points and its heartfelt. Our team doesn't deserve to have its image completely destroyed like it has been. It is shitting on all the great former Browns players and all of us fans. Haslam does need to do something soon to make a statement and axing Banner would be a good one.

[lodilobo]

Gipper...go fuck yourself. I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board. My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends. This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true. When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife? Two different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

[tml1138]

This is not unknown territory. Pro football teams have had consecutive losing seasons longer than the Browns have. Been six seasons since the 2007 10-6 run, and five years before that in 2002 was a playoff appearance. Yeah it still sucks but it's not going to be the end of everything as we know it for the Browns and being a Browns fan. There WILL be a return of winning seasons and playoffs. When that happens, these slumps will go down in history as obscure data that mostly only Browns fans will say "Remember those dark years?". Just like you say with "Remember when the Browns were feared and a contender?".

 

You said you were just venting, and I hope your request to change the Browns name was just that...venting. Same for saying they will never be as they were in the old days (Of course some of that's true. No NFL team will truly be like they were in the old days.) If you're serious, then you need to hang it up. If you still have desire for the Browns to win, and are glad they are still here after all the shit they've been through, then that is a fan I want to celebrate with as they turn this into success again.

 

We can bitch, we can hate the brass, we can voice our displeasure, but never give up on the team itself. Watch some other NFL games on the side if you need to see some "good" football to help you through this. Jeezus I sound like some sort of NFL fan counselor.

 

You're HOF examples I am living something similar to that. My oldest son who's now in college, is a Steelers fan. His mother, my ex, is too so is definitely to blame for being a bad influence. But when he was young he used to root with me for the Browns. But all he saw was the pain of consistent losing, meanwhile Steelers went to playoffs and Super Bowls. Someday I might forgive him. My youngest I hope it will be different. (For one, both his parents are Browns fans.) It'd be nice if he grows up with a different Browns than the one my oldest grew up with. As I fan I believe he will. If not, which I seriously doubt, but if not...I'm still a Browns fan to my dying day. And no regrets, ever!

[lodilobo]

I very much respect your perspective, and I'm also a Cleveland Browns for life. There is a lot of truth in your statements. Remember the "Aint's"? The simple fact is, with all our memories of good, dominant, Browns teams, how many of those are from the current team('99 - present)? Even 2007....a perrenial back up qb played over his head for one season. I'll always be a Browns fan, however this revolving door of owners/ coaches / qb's / presidents / is making me crazy. I know I will pay for this, but I really miss Art Modell.

[tml1138]

BTW I should point out that I'm 39, and did not watch the Browns until the Kosar years. That's all I have to remember for them being serious and consistent contenders.

 

I agree 2007 was some sort of flukey year, but it's still a winning season.

 

Modell fucked this franchise over thank God he didn't get to take it with him. He's to blame for the Browns being forced to start from scratch with a team and personnel, and all the growing pains that come with starting anew, but this team doesn't need him back. They need to find success just in spite of him. It's a good thing he didn't have any offspring. If it were up to me, and he were to come back from the dead and offer to get the Browns out of this mess, I'd tell him to fuck off I'll do it myself. Some might say that's stubborn and stupid, but it'd be shameful to have success only through him. Just my opinion of course.

[The Gipper]

Gipper...go fuck yourself.

Is that an offer?

 

I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board.

:huh:You didn't get the memo?

 

My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends.

Like what? You are the only one that is fed up?

 

This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true.

Yes, it does, actually.

FYI, in my opinion if Modell had not done what he did...he would have simply sold the team to Al Lerner who became the owner anyway. And then we would have had Randy anyway. So it is not really like the history of this team would really have changed much.

 

When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife?

No, but that is not the proper analogy. In this case, we were simply separated from the same wife for 3 years. Its just that when the same wife came back she had issues and developed Alzheimer's or something. But it is still the same woman.

 

different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

So? You admit that you suck balls at parenting such that you would really allow one of your children to root for the Steelers?

I would sue you for Child Abuse.

Like I said, FRAK, if you want to root for a team with a different name....there are 31 others out there you can spoon over.

[Flyin J]

Would you want to see a winning team in Cleveland not named the Browns? Changing the name, changes nothing as far as turning this around. The only thing changing the name does is take us even farther from the glory days you cherish so much. IMO the new generation deserves to see THE BROWNS turn this around. If not the name will be forever tainted, to where people 50 years from now, will remember the shit storm we've endured, not the good 'ole days. Thats not fair to players on those championship teams, or the city.

[Zombo]

Jimmy is never changing the name, the helmet or the colors. Ever. Embrace the history.

 

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

 

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

 

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

 

I'm willing to wait for it.

 

But I expect it next year.

 

Zombo

[Flyin J]

Jimmy is never changing the name, the helmet or the colors. Ever. Embrace the history.

 

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

 

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

 

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

 

I'm willing to wait for it.

 

But I expect it next year.

 

Zombo

There's always next year! : D

[tml1138]

 

 

 

So? You admit that you suck balls at parenting such that you would really allow one of your children to root for the Steelers?

I would sue you for Child Abuse.

 

 

Well shit. I'm thinking you didn't read my post and only replied to lodilobo's. My son is a great kid and has his head on straight. A's honor student has his private pilot's license, and is going to college for a degree in aviation. Yes somehow I failed miserably on where his sports loyalties lie. He's more of a hockey fan but his pro football team of choice is, sadly, the Stoolers. I jab at him constantly about this. It's like a disease in this part of Ohio. I have some family members that are Stooler fans, others are Browns fans with Stoolers fan spouses, and children too.

 

I promise it will be much better with my younger son. I'm older now and have learned from my mistakes.

[The Gipper]

Jimmy is never changing the name, the helmet or the colors. Ever. Embrace the history.

 

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

 

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

 

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

 

I'm willing to wait for it.

 

But I expect it next year.

 

Zombo

You know, it is not like other teams haven't gone through tough times.....and more or less none of them changed their names.

I mean, the Cardinals are the oldest franchise in football, and still have the same name.

 

Now, some teams have changed their names for whatever reason. One of the reason that makes sense is if the franchise moves.....but this franchise DID NOT move, despite what people think. Some teams changed names years ago because they dropped their baseball affiliation. Here are teams that have changed their name:

 

Decatur Staleys....Chicago Bears

Portsmouth Spartans.....Detroit Lions

Houston Oilers.....Tennessee Titans

Boston Braves....Washington Redskins

Pittsburgh Pirates....Pittsburgh Steelers

New York Titans....NY Jets

Dallas Texans....Kansas City Chiefs

 

The Jets are the only team to change their name where it had nothing to do with a relocation or reidentification from a baseball teams name.

[The Gipper]

 

Well shit. I'm thinking you didn't read my post and only replied to lodilobo's. My son is a great kid and has his head on straight. A's honor student has his private pilot's license, and is going to college for a degree in aviation. Yes somehow I failed miserably on where his sports loyalties lie. He's more of a hockey fan but his pro football team of choice is, sadly, the Stoolers. I jab at him constantly about this. It's like a disease in this part of Ohio. I have some family members that are Stooler fans, others are Browns fans with Stoolers fan spouses, and children too.

 

I promise it will be much better with my younger son. I'm older now and have learned from my mistakes.

I would check your family's DNA. There appears to still be some Troglodyte or Neanderthal blood still running in your family....and on occasion those recessive genes come to the forefront.

[tml1138]

I would check your family's DNA. There appears to still be some Troglodyte or Neanderthal blood still running in your family....and on occasion those recessive genes come to the forefront.

Well, my first wife (my oldest son's mother) was a Stoolers fan so that explains a lot right there. Living so close to the border you'll find a lot more of those around.

 

As for my DNA, no need to dig very far. My father's side is predominately Browns fans and where I get most of my sports affiliation. My mother's side is more the mix...and her roots are from PA. She's been in Ohio since she was about five, if I recall correctly, and so she has relatives (mostly the generation above her) are still in PA.

 

I do have a lot of body hair...and I've read that usually hair genes come from the mother's side. Thanks Mom. I'm Cro-Magnon. Browns mind trapped in a Stoolers body.

 

My second wife is a born and raised Cleveland girl, with family all around that area. So my younger son has much better odds! I take solace in this.

[lodilobo]

Don't take that loser Dripper too seriously. I can tell, you don't. He's just some small time ambulance chaser with too much time on his hands. He's always good for a laugh when he pulls out his ancient archives on sports, and spews names of teams that no one ever heard of. His trivia posts suck, too.

[lodilobo]

 

Gipper...go fuck yourself.

Is that an offer?

 

I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board.

:huh:You didn't get the memo?

 

My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends.

Like what? You are the only one that is fed up?

 

This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true.

Yes, it does, actually.

FYI, in my opinion if Modell had not done what he did...he would have simply sold the team to Al Lerner who became the owner anyway. And then we would have had Randy anyway. So it is not really like the history of this team would really have changed much. OPINION is the key word, here.

 

When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife?

No, but that is not the proper analogy. In this case, we were simply separated from the same wife for 3 years. Its just that when the same wife came back she had issues and developed Alzheimer's or something. But it is still the same woman.

No...my analogy was the proper one....it just took you 3 years to re marry. If your first wife was Carol, why do you insist on calling your second wife Carol, when her name is Ann?

different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

So? You admit that you suck balls at parenting such that you would really allow one of your children to root for the Steelers? Yes...I guess my parenting is so bad, I would encourage my kid to be himself/herself. By the way....we were using your offspring as an example. Not mine.

I would sue you for Child Abuse.Damn....you really are sue happy! I've always suspected as much.

Like I said, FRAK, if you want to root for a team with a different name....there are 31 others out there you can spoon over. Thanks for your permission.

 

[The Gipper]

Don't take that loser Dripper too seriously. I can tell, you don't. He's just some small time ambulance chaser with too much time on his hands. He's always good for a laugh when he pulls out his ancient archives on sports, and spews names of teams that no one ever heard of. His trivia posts suck, too.

I don't do PI. Probate, Bankruptcy, Real Estate, that sort of thing.

But yes, I do pull out information about the history of the game that educates all y'all.

 

If my trivia posts suck in your opinion....then I challenge you to do your own.

 

Otherwise, face it, you are just jealous because I am smarter, better looking and have a bigger dick.

[The Gipper]

 

 

Gipper...go fuck yourself.

Is that an offer?

 

I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board.

:huh:You didn't get the memo?

 

My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends.

Like what? You are the only one that is fed up?

 

This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true.

Yes, it does, actually.

FYI, in my opinion if Modell had not done what he did...he would have simply sold the team to Al Lerner who became the owner anyway. And then we would have had Randy anyway. So it is not really like the history of this team would really have changed much. OPINION is the key word, here. (you might want to differentiate when you make new comments. Different color/italics etc.

Yes...it is opinion as to what MIGHT have happened if Modell had not moved. That is all speculative.

But what DID happen is fact.....not subject to speculation or opinion.

 

When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife?

No, but that is not the proper analogy. In this case, we were simply separated from the same wife for 3 years. Its just that when the same wife came back she had issues and developed Alzheimer's or something. But it is still the same woman.

No...my analogy was the proper one....it just took you 3 years to re marry. If your first wife was Carol, why do you insist on calling your second wife Carol, when her name is Ann?

Because there was NO second wife. There was only Carol. Its just that Carol got fatter, uglier, and suffered a brain anyeurism.

different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

So? You admit that you suck balls at parenting such that you would really allow one of your children to root for the Steelers? Yes...I guess my parenting is so bad, I would encourage my kid to be himself/herself. By the way....we were using your offspring as an example. Not mine.

Well, my son is not a sports fan....but at least he has the good sense to know that if he were one he wouldn't be a Steeler fan.

I would sue you for Child Abuse.Damn....you really are sue happy! I've always suspected as much.

No,not really. I rarely engage in litigation, even as an attorney.

Like I said, FRAK, if you want to root for a team with a different name....there are 31 others out there you can spoon over. Thanks for your permission.

I didn't give you permission....I simply acknowledge the fact that you don't mind being considered a FRAK.

 

 

[lodilobo]

Alright Dildo(I rarely resort to name calling, but you started it)...if I were a FRAK, I would have a closet full of Steelers, Bengals, Seahwawks and Broncos jerseys. All I have are Tim Couch, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon Winn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer jerseys. Can you fix a speeding ticket for me?

[hoorta]

Jimmy is never changing the name, the helmet or the colors. Ever. Embrace the history.

 

We will be "veterans" of the great drought of 99-13, just like we are veterans of Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble and The Move.

 

All the sweeter when we win. We ARE the Cleveland Browns. The one constant is the fans.

 

We'll be back on top. And by the time we get there, every last front runner will have become a Steeler fan and it'll be us Real Browns fans celebrating the return of Greatness.

 

I'm willing to wait for it.

 

But I expect it next year.

 

Zombo

 

 

Well, I'll never give up- but it would be hard for most of the regulars around here to miss that I've never been as down about my team as I am right now. As I said "this team has hit rock bottom, and started to dig." Yes Jimmy, the rest of the NFL is laughing behind your back.

 

Let's hope Pettine turns into the next Paul Brown, and Lombardi finally gets a clue and drafts a couple all-pros in the 2014 draft.

 

There's a lot of hard feelings in the locker room that will need to be soothed- you can bet Joe Thomas is even more sick of the coaching carousel than we are.

[The Gipper]

Alright Dildo(I rarely resort to name calling, but you started it)...if I were a FRAK, I would have a closet full of Steelers, Bengals, Seahwawks and Broncos jerseys. All I have are Tim Couch, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon Winn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer jerseys.

Well, then don't talk like a FRAK, wanting to root for some other team.

Can you fix a speeding ticket for me?

You would have to be stopped in the right jurisdiction.....and even then the answer would have to be NO. What kind of public servant do you think I am?

[lodilobo]

 

Alright Dildo(I rarely resort to name calling, but you started it)...if I were a FRAK, I would have a closet full of Steelers, Bengals, Seahwawks and Broncos jerseys. All I have are Tim Couch, Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Kelly Holcomb, Spurgeon Winn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer jerseys.

Well, then don't talk like a FRAK, wanting to root for some other team.Never said that...color option is not working

Can you fix a speeding ticket for me?

You would have to be stopped in the right jurisdiction.....and even then the answer would have to be NO. What kind of public servant do you think I am?

 

[Bag O' Dicks]

Gipper...go fuck yourself. I must have missed it when you were elected ruler of this board. My post didn't insinuate in any way that I would root for another team. I'm damn tired of watching for the last 14 years as a an imposter of a team that I grew up with, changes owners and coaches with the same regularity that that you change your Depends. This is not now, and never will be the same team that left here in '95. You can spew all the legal crap you want, about the franchise never left Cleveland...blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make it true. When Modell took the team, that was the end. It's something we should have recognized and accepted then. If your wife leaves you, then 4 years later, by some miracle, you find another woman to marry you, do you call her by the same name as your first wife? Two different scenarios could have transpired. You're at the HOF with your 17 year old son. Scenario #1...you show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and tell him. "Sadly, the scumbag owner moved the team in 1995, and took them to Baltimore, to become the Baltimore Ravens." "It was a great team, and one of the winningest professional teams in all of sports." Gee Dad...I sure wish I could have seen them play." Scenario #2....You show him the proud history of the Cleveland Browns, and he says.."The Browns? you mean the Cleveland Clowns, Dad. They suck! Have they ever won more than 5 games in a season?" The Steelers!.....that's my team!" Enjoy your delusional hope that some day, this fiasco will transform into the 1986 Browns. Reality sucks, but there it is. So sue me.

 

I highly disagree with you because that is similarly the same scenario a Baltimore Colts fan could play out with the Ravens. There's no guarantee that Modell keeping the Browns in Cleveland would have brought on winning football like it has consistently won in Baltimore. Modell left all the history, colors, heritage in Cleveland when he moved to Baltimore. What he took to Baltimore literally has NOTHING to do with Cleveland. So you cannot make a comparison.

[The Gipper]

 

I highly disagree with you because that is similarly the same scenario a Baltimore Colts fan could play out with the Ravens. There's no guarantee that Modell keeping the Browns in Cleveland would have brought on winning football like it has consistently won in Baltimore. Modell left all the history, colors, heritage in Cleveland when he moved to Baltimore. What he took to Baltimore literally has NOTHING to do with Cleveland. So you cannot make a comparison.

You are right. What has happened in B-more has nothing to do with what might have happened here.

The thing that turned things around for Baltimore: The purchase of the team by Steve Bisciotti.

Had Modell not "moved", the Browns would have probably been sold to Al Lerner just a year or two earlier than they were.

Nothing much would have changed really.

The only possible positive difference may have been that Ozzie Newsome would have remained here to run this team, and not the Ravens.

But that is purely speculative.

[PoeticG]

If you have a Jason Campbell jersey... it's your own fault...

[bringbackbrownie2]

If you have a Jason Campbell jersey... it's your own fault...

 

..says the Trent Richardson/Colt McCoy fanboy

[RoyceRolls]

OLD PEOPLE ARGUMENT!!!!! I wish I could witness you two going at it while playing chess in the park

[Westside Steve]

Thanks to modern day electronic mail delivery there is more room inJimmy Haslam waste basket but a little less in his deleted files folder.

And none of us had to walk to the mailbox to read that rubbish!

WSS

[lodilobo]

I highly disagree with you because that is similarly the same scenario a Baltimore Colts fan could play out with the Ravens. There's no guarantee that Modell keeping the Browns in Cleveland would have brought on winning football like it has consistently won in Baltimore. Modell left all the history, colors, heritage in Cleveland when he moved to Baltimore. What he took to Baltimore literally has NOTHING to do with Cleveland. So you cannot make a comparison.

[/quote Of course you disagree with me. If you agreed you would have to admit that the team you inherited was the Cleveland Browns...one of the most respected and winningest teams in the NFL history at that time. You like to think that as the team travelled from Cleveland to Baltimore, a metamorphesis took place, and those players, coaches, etc. suddenly had no connection to the Cleveland Browns. There was no guarantee that the Browns would have ever won another game...ever, if they stayed in Cleveland. Just as there is no guarantee the Baltimore Ravens will ever win another game...period. Same thing. However, the team had established itself long ago as a winning franchise, so it's safe to say, it would have remained that way. You worship Modell beecause he brought professional football back to Baltimore, and you couldn't care less how he did it. I'm sure we would all have a similar view of any owner who would have moved his franchise to Cleveland to fill the void...and there were many rumors flying around regarding that possibility. Do you fellow Browns fans remember?....most of us wanted a new team...we didn't want to steal the Bengals, the Buccaneers, or someone elses team. Keep in mind thought, that we were without football for only 3 seasons...not 12 years like you fans in Baltimore. After 12 years, I guess we would have been begging another owner to bring his team to Cleveland, too. Especially since there was no hope of an expansion franchise for Baltimore. Art Modell was instrumental in seeing to that.