BrownsKidd Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Something cannot come from nothing. I know someone will say, well then who created God? I don't know. The Christian idea is that God was and is and always will be, and for us in or limited mind, that can very well be a true thought as "eternal" is a difficult to conceptualize and grasp. The idea that God, in his existence may not be eternal, for some Christians, absolute heresy. But I also stand to think that "The Bible", doesn't reveal everything about God and His Kingdom. There are mysteries that we will not know and may never know. One of the problems with Christianity is that so many deal in absolutes and I don't believe that is the case. Let me restate something that I said a few pages back. Christianity hinges on Jesus, his life death and resurrection. Prove who he said he claimed to be and the case for an intelligent designer is there with nothing to argue, except for how it was designed. Prove that Christ isn't who he said he was, Christianity dies all its tenants with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Cal, you are posting OPINION POLLS. You aren't making a point for creationism or the teaching of it in schools. They are OPINIONS. There are a ton of religious people in the country that will ignore the science based on their faith. Whatever, good for them. But it shouldn't affect what we teach in public schools. Yes, your first link was from a fucking site called Answering Genesis and the polls were 20+ years old. It was a god awful source. But even then, it did nothing to help your argument. They were just opinion polls. The second post was an opinion article by a dude with a Law degree that is trying to push intelligent design. The first page on his wiki article that you posted states that the vast majority of scientists disagree with his views on our origin and he seems to think AIDS doesn't come from HIV. And now your most recent is a Gallop poll that isn't that old. Hey, congrats. You did it. Too bad it is still an OPINION poll and does nothing to support that idea we should teach creationism in schools. You seemed to have also jumped off the creationism ship you first started on and moved to intelligent design. I wonder if you know the difference... We are literally working backwards now to. No one cares how "amazed" you are by the life around you and that you can't comprehend that being anything other than god. The point of this whole fucking thing since you last posted was that you thought creationism should be taught in school. WHY? What is your reasoning? Whaat is your argument? Holy shit Cal you are bringing idiot to a whole new level... So, for the fucking thousandth time... Cal, why should we teach creationism is schools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Something cannot come from nothing. I know someone will say, well then who created God? I don't know. The Christian idea is that God was and is and always will be, and for us in or limited mind, that can very well be a true thought as "eternal" is a difficult to conceptualize and grasp. The idea that God, in his existence may not be eternal, for some Christians, absolute heresy. But I also stand to think that "The Bible", doesn't reveal everything about God and His Kingdom. There are mysteries that we will not know and may never know. One of the problems with Christianity is that so many deal in absolutes and I don't believe that is the case. Let me restate something that I said a few pages back. Christianity hinges on Jesus, his life death and resurrection. Prove who he said he claimed to be and the case for an intelligent designer is there with nothing to argue, except for how it was designed. Prove that Christ isn't who he said he was, Christianity dies all its tenants with it. I think that is a cop out. Just saying "oh this can't happen, we'll never understand, so god did it". Also, something can come from nothing, in a sense. That is why dark matter and dark energy exist in these theories. The result of the Big Bang can still be a net of nothing, but create matter and energy. There are theories out there abut what caused the big bang. These theories are being worked on, investigated, peer reviewed, etc. To me that is a much better process than saying "god did it" and being done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I think that is a cop out. Just saying "oh this can't happen, we'll never understand, so god did it". Also, something can come from nothing, in a sense. That is why dark matter and dark energy exist in these theories. The result of the Big Bang can still be a net of nothing, but create matter and energy. There are theories out there abut what caused the big bang. These theories are being worked on, investigated, peer reviewed, etc. To me that is a much better process than saying "god did it" and being done with it. Not exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that if there is a designer, the big bang, evolution could all be a part of it. I don't know for sure either way. So an event that can net nothing, but create something is not a net of nothing. Nothing, in and of itself is hard to conceptualize. Try to imagine that nothing exists, and then conceptualize how something can come from that. This may not be a perfect analogy, but I think of a piece of paper as being "nothing" an empty canvas. The Mona Lisa will never appear without someone taking a brush and paint and painting on it. But I again state that everything hinges on disproving who Christ said he was. Do that, then science wins. Until then, there is a harmony that should exist between the two. Not that we will know all answers, but there should be an attempt at decent Rogerian discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I get where you are coming from. You are saying that Christianity and evolution/big bang don't have to be mutually exclusive. If you are just looking at Christianity as a set of ideals to live your life than yeah, I get it. I am not a big fan of religion though and I think it is generally a poison on our society. I am also not sure how we can disprove that some guy 2000 years ago wasn't actually the son of god, since we can't disprove god. We can disprove certain things in the bible, and we can realize that others are highly highly unlikely. But it would be hard to actually disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Just to plat devils advocate, why should they teach evolution or creationism in school? Neither one serves the purpose of teaching the youth a necessary skill to prepare him to enter the job market. Relatively few people become evolutionary science majors certainly less than enter the medical field and they don't teach pre med classes in public school. Thats what college is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Just to plat devils advocate, why should they teach evolution or creationism in school? Neither one serves the purpose of teaching the youth a necessary skill to prepare him to enter the job market. Relatively few people become evolutionary science majors certainly less than enter the medical field and they don't teach pre med classes in public school. Thats what college is for .... you could throw out most of the curriculum then. About 95% of what I learned in English. or you say it is about teaching the scientific method and reasoning to youth so they can better understand and analyze the world around them you aren't so much playing the devil's advocate as completely changing the topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Get a job maggot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 That didn't sufficiently answer my question. Teaching evolution doesn't teach scientific method. There is a hundred simple hands on experiments that could teach it more effectively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Teaching the big bang theory in public school also seems strange as so few people seem able to adequately explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 It's likely your average science teacher has little actual grasp on the why's and wherefore of the beginning of the universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Get a job maggot. I have a job. A great job at a great company. My top choice too. The Michigan Difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Again Cysko, this really wasn't the topic at hand... but I still think it holds merit to teach. It shows how we used the scientific method and the like to better explain the world around us. It helps students learn how to analyze things in a scientific sense. Yes, there are more simple, hands-on methods, and those can totally be taught too. But they are still going to teach how mountains got there, how the continents drift, how animals evolved, how the universe as we know it started, etc. and again, if you want to just completely change what should and shouldn't be taught in schools there is a large part of the curriculum that can be removed. You will basically split all the kids into vocational roles or have them start their college major in like 9th grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I have a job. A great job at a great company. My top choice too. The Michigan Difference You mean you have been tentatively selected. You haven't started working as you're still in college. Talk to me after you have actually worked for a living a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 .... ok.... you said get a job. I have one. I signed all the paperwork, lol. I'll start in a few months. So is it get a job or be working at that job for a few years? Different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You can say its off topic but its no different than demanding that cal give you a good reason why school should teach creationism. I'm just asking for a good reason why they should teach evolution. It's the same topic except now the other side is being pressed to make their case. What I'm getting from this is that you don't like having to explain why your beliefs merit being taught in school even as you're asking others to do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You can say its off topic but its no different than demanding that cal give you a good reason why school should teach creationism. I'm just asking for a good reason why they should teach evolution. It's the same topic except now the other side is being pressed to make their case. What I'm getting from this is that you don't like having to explain why your beliefs merit being taught in school even as you're asking others to do the same Because one is based on science in a science class while the other is based on fairy tales but expected to be taught in a science class? They should teach creationism....in creative writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Evolution itself is beyond question. Whether humans evolved from primates is still only theory. The best argument against it asks why haven't other apes evolved appreciably in recorded history. If we rose up from apes it stands to reason that other apes would have evolved into primitive humans of sort. However as far as I know there is no evidence of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Because one is based on science in a science class while the other is based on fairy tales but expected to be taught in a science class? They should teach creationism....in creative writing. Nice answer. Ignorant and poorly formed but I expect that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You can say its off topic but its no different than demanding that cal give you a good reason why school should teach creationism. I'm just asking for a good reason why they should teach evolution. It's the same topic except now the other side is being pressed to make their case. What I'm getting from this is that you don't like having to explain why your beliefs merit being taught in school even as you're asking others to do the same Except I already gave a couple reasons why.... how many more do you want? Cal thinks we should teach creationism in a SCIENCE classroom as well, I was asking why. I have still yet not gotten an answer. You asked why we should teach evolution (or the big bang, I'm not sure which you want) and I gave you a couple reasons. I mean, it is a very important scientific theory that incorporates different aspects of different fields of science. It helps teach an scientific way of analyzing things and gives kids our best answer for questions they may have. It let's them see how the scientific process works. Etc etc etc. Do you want these reasons posted again or are you just going to ignore them again? I have answered your question. We get it, you just like being the devil's advocate in debates. You've said many times already a lot of what you post is just to stir shit up. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Your stated reasons are generic and unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You don't like being on the defensive I get that but I'm not attacking you, I'd like to hear from Chris on the subject, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Evolution itself is beyond question. Whether humans evolved from primates is still only theory. The best argument against it asks why haven't other apes evolved appreciably in recorded history. If we rose up from apes it stands to reason that other apes would have evolved into primitive humans of sort. However as far as I know there is no evidence of that Well 1, we didn't evolve from the primates we see now. We evolved from a common ancestor. 2, recorded history is a very, very brief window in time in regards to all of evolution on this planet. I wouldn't expect to see much. Other apes will continue to evolve, we just probably won't notice any big changes. That also doesn't mean they will become more intelligent and "human like". They will evolve to their environment around them based on natural selection. Evolution is a scientific theory, different than just a normal theory. Gravity is also a scientific theory. Throwing around theory like it makes it something we can easily disregard is foolish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Your stated reasons are generic and unacceptable. Says who, you? If you are nitpicking this much about teaching evolution you can remove the majority of the curriculum in schools.... You don't like being on the defensive I get that but I'm not attacking you, I'd like to hear from Chris on the subject, maybe. I don't mind defending my beliefs because I have yet to read anything on here or anywhere else that makes me seriously doubt or reconsider them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Humans have evolved a great deal in only a few hundred years. Noticeably. Other species have evolved as w ell. Primates maybe not so much. If we share the same common ancestor we've had exactly the same amount of time to evolve. One of our species have iPads and the other ones are still fishing termites out of a hill with sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 And the majority of the school curriculums are probably quite useless in real life, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Also the current theory is that our species and our cousins the apes evolved in the same womb...Africa. there is no logical reason our evolution has been so much more profound. Apes have opposable thumbs and its proven they are capable of learning language, if not speaking it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 And the majority of the school curriculums are probably quite useless in real life, no? For everyday, "real" life? Lol no. Not at all. If teaching evolution has no benefit than most of the high school curriculum doesn't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 That's what I just said. I thought you were kidding about your lack of enthusiasm for english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 My bad, I read that as useful on my phone. ... and yes, ha ha very clever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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