LBC mike Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Depends. If we get him for less money, and reinvest the saved money elsewhere to make the team stronger, then yes. I am sure Farmer will get spikes or butler for less than 7 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwardc4 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 See, it is not a matter of having a different opinion...it is a matter of facts.....and yes, as a judge it is my job to discern facts. A judge huh? That makes sense. I think you would argue chemistry with a chemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 A judge huh? That makes sense. I think you would argue chemistry with a chemist Probably not because I would probably not know the factual background that the chemist is talking about. I am fully capable of deferring to someone more knowledgeable. But here, the conversation was about NFL player contracts. I at least knew those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I don't think it is a major rebuild. I think the DL is pretty solid. The OLBs are capable. If they keep Ward, clearly that position is well handled. Haden obviously. Gipson seems solid. Skrine is viable...but sure maybe some upgrade can be made in the defensive backfield. Yes, the one position that is now weakest is MLB. And obviously that will be addressed. My prediction: 1 FA signing, one Draftee. blowing up the LB corps in the middle of another coaching transition....is a rebuild, sorry judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 This organization for some reason just can't seem to grasp why there are teams like the Ravens and Steelers that are constantly on the upswing...how they are able to retool on the fly and even in down years they're still relevant in the NFL. DQ was our Ray Lewis. And I'm going to say that two years ago when the Ravens won the SB, Lewis had already lost quite a few steps over anything that DQ may have lost at this point. Ellerbe held up that LB'ing corp that year they beat the niners. Without Ellerbe covering for Ray they would not have been in the SB. Dq was no ray lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Great Goblin Gator going Gorilla getting Grandpa Gipper Geezer grumpy. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Great Goblin Gator going Gorilla getting Grandpa Gipper Geezer grumpy. Gotcha. Gay?^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 blowing up the LB corps in the middle of another coaching transition....is a rebuild, sorry judge. It is a rebuild of the LB corps. Not of the entire defense, nor the whole team. It is TWO guys. We get one FA and one rookie and Voila......rebuild done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwardc4 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Probably not because I would probably not know the factual background that the chemist is talking about. I am fully capable of deferring to someone more knowledgeable. But here, the conversation was about NFL player contracts. I at least knew those facts. I was ribbin' you about something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Gay?^ you think? PoG was the head of the man love association until walter white graced us with his presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Dq was no ray lewis didn't say he was, nobody is...but he was the best player on our defense period. He ran the defense...set the rush lanes etc, etc. A good MLB in the NFL is almost as golden as a qb is for the offense. If your MLB or ILB's suck....I don't care how good the OLB'ers and d line are, your defense will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 It is a rebuild of the LB corps. Not of the entire defense, nor the whole team. It is TWO guys. We get one FA and one rookie and Voila......rebuild done. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. except it never happens like that, especially not in cleveland. C'mon we know this. You say it's "only" two guys..well they're the two most important players on the defense. That statement is fact and not open for debate btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I honestly hope the steelers take a look at him for a cap friendly deal. He would be nice next to timmons until Vince williams or Spence are ready to go. Im almost a little surprised by how many people are saying he's just okay. When he was in brown and orange he was a focal point. Take it from me teams miss that kind of leadership. Based on what I've read he was less than pleased with how out of whack the front office was and that may have played a role in his release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I would say he's worth the money for the transitional year. We have the cap space and with all the changes being made his stability and leadership in the locker room is probably worth it. Given the exact same set of skills combined with a bad attitude, no, he's not but... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 well there's nothing we can do about it now so................... will like to see what other teams offer him. won't be too much more than the browns tried to do guaranteed, if not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 didn't say he was, nobody is...but he was the best player on our defense period. He ran the defense...set the rush lanes etc, etc. A good MLB in the NFL is almost as golden as a qb is for the offense. If your MLB or ILB's suck....I don't care how good the OLB'ers and d line are, your defense will struggle. Best? No way. I put Haden and Ward above him. Perhaps one of the most important, but not the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The only problem with that, is that it's an opinion. So, you basically proved yourself wrong. The statement that the mike back is the most important player on the defense is categorically factual, has been since the inception of the game. We are talking about american football right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The statement that the mike back is the most important player on the defense is categorically factual, has been since the inception of the game. We are talking about american football right? fuck. i thought we were talking about cricket. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 fuck. i thought we were talking about cricket. my bad. well I wsa just tryin to be sure cause i thought it was just common knowledge that in american football, not that soccer fgt crap, that the middle lb'er was the most important defensive player on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 well I wsa just tryin to be sure cause i thought it was just common knowledge that in american football, not that soccer fgt crap, that the middle lb'er was the most important defensive player on the field. gotcha. i think our FO knows this. they offered the guy money, he and his agent scoffed at it so look for us to draft a LB within our first 3 picks if not some FA (don't know who would be available at this point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 gotcha. i think our FO knows this. they offered the guy money, he and his agent scoffed at it so look for us to draft a LB within our first 3 picks if not some FA (don't know who would be available at this point). Exactly, who "is" available at this point? Spikes? dqwells lowest productive years were his first year in 06 and in 09 when he was injured. I'll throw out that year. So his lowest productive year was his rookie year with 93 tackles. So we have this in perspective...Brandon Spikes best year was in 2012 with 92 tackles. His rookie year he had 61 tackles...30 fewer than DQ's rookie year. In 2011 he had 47 tackles...hope that was an injury year cause DQ had 59 tackles through 6 games until he got hurt. From what I understand people think Brandon Spikes is the best Lb'er in free agency. Not personally sure about that cause I haven't studied the list...but if that's true, we let a guy walk who's not just marginally better than the best FA on the list. Infact DQ may have become the best FA lb'er on the list "by far". Dansby's on that list, I know he's pretty good....but from what I understand the Cardinals have zero intention of letting him walk and he's pretty much in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Exactly, who "is" available at this point? Spikes? dqwells lowest productive years were his first year in 06 and in 09 when he was injured. I'll throw out that year. So his lowest productive year was his rookie year with 93 tackles. So we have this in perspective...Brandon Spikes best year was in 2012 with 92 tackles. His rookie year he had 61 tackles...30 fewer than DQ's rookie year. In 2011 he had 47 tackles...hope that was an injury year cause DQ had 59 tackles through 6 games until he got hurt. From what I understand people think Brandon Spikes is the best Lb'er in free agency. Not personally sure about that cause I haven't studied the list...but if that's true, we let a guy walk who's not just marginally better than the best FA on the list. Infact DQ may have become the best FA lb'er on the list "by far". Dansby's on that list, I know he's pretty good....but from what I understand the Cardinals have zero intention of letting him walk and he's pretty much in the bag. Tackles is just one part of a very big equation. You have to cover TEs over the middle- how fast do you see a hole and plug it ?(IMHO Jackson was marginal in that regard.) So Just relying on # of tackles really doesn't tell you that much about overall worth. And as others have said, making a ton of tackles 5-10 yards down the field really is bogus. I don't have the TFL (tackles for loss) and to my mind, that's a much more telling stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Exactly, who "is" available at this point? Spikes? dqwells lowest productive years were his first year in 06 and in 09 when he was injured. I'll throw out that year. So his lowest productive year was his rookie year with 93 tackles. So we have this in perspective...Brandon Spikes best year was in 2012 with 92 tackles. His rookie year he had 61 tackles...30 fewer than DQ's rookie year. In 2011 he had 47 tackles...hope that was an injury year cause DQ had 59 tackles through 6 games until he got hurt. From what I understand people think Brandon Spikes is the best Lb'er in free agency. Not personally sure about that cause I haven't studied the list...but if that's true, we let a guy walk who's not just marginally better than the best FA on the list. Infact DQ may have become the best FA lb'er on the list "by far". Dansby's on that list, I know he's pretty good....but from what I understand the Cardinals have zero intention of letting him walk and he's pretty much in the bag. like i said i feel this FO knows which way to go. if DQs replacement isn't in FA expect us to pick a LB within our first 3 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 You can make a case for plenty of other defensive positions being the most critical, depending on scheme. It's a matter of opinion. than make the case. In what schems is the MLB or the ILB'ers not the most important players on the field for the defense? From my experience both playing and studying the game this was not a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 for real. you could make the fact that the NT is the most important player on D. or maybe CB and S. i will agree with you on one point. just like baseball, you build your team from the middle out. center to tackles. NT to DEs. MLB to OLB. S to CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 You are stating an opinion, just as I am. Maybe you should have gotten that H.S. diploma. It's not "my" opinion. It's the opinion of every defensive guru that has studied the game of football at the professional level for the last....oh....50+ years. The interior linebackers are the most important defensive players on the field...end of discussion. It's football 101 almost. It's almost like in basketball you can't put a short guy at center no matter how good of an athlete he is. It just doesn't work. It's not an opinion that someone 6'4 shouldn't play center in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Agreed Gipper. Particularly if were sticking with this 3-4 hybrid we keep hearing about. We need a beastly young man who can blow up run plays and play a great zone in the middle of the field, freeing up our OLB and no.2 ILB for blitzes and allowing them to be just plain old aggressive. I agree. Welcome to the board. You seem to be a good addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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