OTA Early Report (Which Means Nothing)

[DieHardBrownsFan]

But, but he was a star at St. Ignatius.

[Harry Buffalo]

 

 

I didn't villify him for not liking Manziel. I villified him for sounding like a pussy.

 

When 95% of your posts are passive-aggressive, sarcastic posts about a single player that you didn't want, you sound like a pussy. I didn't even want Manziel, but you don't see me being a butthurt bitch about it.

 

And that's the thing, Hoyer is some bum. With the way people are claiming that he's the bonafide starter and that Manziel or Thigpen have to unseat him (like it's a fucking huge challenge), you'd think Hoyer was an All-Pro world beater. He's not.

 

The dude is a career backup who just happened to have one very mediocre game and one decent game for us that resulted in wins. He has a career QB rating of 77.4, has thrown only one more TD than INT (7:6), and has played for just as many teams as he has started and completed an NFL game.

 

If he was from Buttfuck, Oregon, nobody would care this much about him. But, since he's from Cleveland, he just happens to be the fucking heir apparent.

 

The level of homerism, whether its centered around Manziel or Hoyer, is rampant around here.

 

I don't care who fucking wins the job, but don't claim that it's Hoyer's to lose or Manziel's to win. It's anybody's to win. There's a solid chance Hoyer doesn't even make the roster. If you were unbiased, you'd see that.

 

One of these 4 QB's has to go...why is it so crazy that it's the 30 year old with only four starts, a bad knee and less experience running the Pistol than the other three QB's?

Is he the sure fire starter. No. But your a fucking idiot if you think there is any chance he doesn't make the roster.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Is he the sure fire starter. No. But your a fucking idiot if you think there is any chance he doesn't make the roster.

 

I'd love to know why.

 

Other than "He's Brian Hoyer, duhhhh."

[J0hnnybg00d]

4th Quarter Hoyer is the fucking man.

[WTL]

My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.

 

It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy.

 

But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?

 

What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?

The mental bs is over rated.

1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum

2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't

 

Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.

 

Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?

 

Dismiss as fanboys or whatever

 

But you're offering zero logic in the form of a rebuttal.

It's like saying jimmy at the tire shop should be qb1 cause he throws billeted to the boys after thanksgiving dinner.

 

The only logic I see for Hoyer over Manziel actually makes tebow over Hoyer.

 

Prove you position. I don't see it, seems illogical.

[J0hnnybg00d]

My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.

 

It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy.

 

But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?

 

What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?

The mental bs is over rated.

1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum

2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't

 

Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.

 

Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?

 

Dismiss as fanboys or whatever

 

But you're offering zero logic in the form of a rebuttal.

It's like saying jimmy at the tire shop should be qb1 cause he throws billeted to the boys after thanksgiving dinner.

 

The only logic I see for Hoyer over Manziel actually makes tebow over Hoyer.

 

Prove you position. I don't see it, seems illogical.

Cause Ray Farmer says so... i think he knows more than all of us so stfu. Manziel isn't yours anymore so get over it plz.

[choco]

The mental part of the game is overrated?

 

Do you even watch football....manzealoit?

 

Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.

 

I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The mental part of the game is overrated?

 

Do you even watch football....manzealoit?

 

Good god.....the enlarged bandwagon is dragging down the collective football IQ in Cleveland.....and it was already low enough.

 

I'm not even gonna waste my time to explain all that is wrong with that idiotic post.

I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.

 

What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?

 

Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.

 

Nothing to do with football, at least.

[WTL]

And point proven.

 

5 year. 7 touchdowns. 6 picks. Released 2. 1 torn ACL

 

SUPER BOWLS!

[Taco918]

I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.

 

At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.

 

At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.

That's what's sad.

 

2 starts, 7 TD's and 6 INT's makes an "entrenched starter" in Cleveland. Guys are singing his praises.

 

It's part of what makes Cleveland a laughingstock.

 

Call me crazy, but that's shitty QB play all around the board and it's not something to be excited over.

 

I like Hoyer. As I said before, he's one of two QB's that gave me the "he's got this" feeling. But Jesus, the way some people talk about him here, you'd think he was Tom Fucking Brady.

[WTL]

Maybe the browns should put both on the trading block and see what the market thinks.

[choco]

I'm not a Manzealot by any means but I think he makes a (somewhat) good point.

 

What exactly qualifies Hoyer? What are the reasons behind the love affair?

 

Because, for all I can see, the people who are claiming Hoyer to be the day one starter have absolutely nothing to back it up with.

 

Nothing to do with football, at least.

And I won't dispute any of that....cause I agree. I'm not on hoyers dick either.

 

However....I wouldn't say nothing is behind it. He is an average QB....whose football intelligence helps cover his physical deficiencies. Johnny is the opposite....athletic guy that doesn't YET possess the knowledge that will help him become successful. We've thrown enough QBs to the wolves to know that physical talent isn't enough to be consistently good.

 

What jackoff said I disagree with is that the mental part is overrated. Its certainly not. Per snap reads aren't necessary in college, where a guy can get by on talent alone. Pair johnnys athletics with an understanding of protections, defensive schemes, coverage weakness, and hot reads and he'll light it up.

 

Send him out unprepared against a dick lebeau defense that's 15-2 against rookie QBs and he just may get hurt.....ala colt. Hoyers advantage is his intelligence and abity to quickly process what he sees and react/make a decision......no deer in headlight syndrome.

 

Frankly....we've been competitive with awful QB play. Average is all we need to win some games till johnny knows the difference between man vs zone....cover 2 vs cover 3, etc.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

And I won't dispute any of that....cause I agree. I'm not on hoyers dick either.

 

However....I wouldn't say nothing is behind it. He is an average QB....whose football intelligence helps cover his physical deficiencies. Johnny is the opposite....athletic guy that doesn't YET possess the knowledge that will help him become successful. We've thrown enough QBs to the wolves to know that physical talent isn't enough to be consistently good.

 

What jackoff said I disagree with is that the mental part is overrated. Its certainly not. Per snap reads aren't necessary in college, where a guy can get by on talent alone. Pair johnnys athletics with an understanding of protections, defensive schemes, coverage weakness, and hot reads and he'll light it up.

 

Send him out unprepared against a dick lebeau defense that's 15-2 against rookie QBs and he just may get hurt.....ala colt. Hoyers advantage is his intelligence and abity to quickly process what he sees and react/make a decision......no deer in headlight syndrome.

 

Frankly....we've been competitive with awful QB play. Average is all we need to win some games till johnny knows the difference between man vs zone....cover 2 vs cover 3, etc.

I agree, the mental aspect is very important. Johnny should sit until he's learned to identify defenses, blitz packages, coverages, et al pre-snap.

 

Why, however, is it then assumed Hoyer starts? Thigpen has more NFL experience, no history of injuries, is more mobile than Hoyer and is fluent in Shanahan's Pistol/Shotgun based, play-action, read-option, outside the pocket offense.

 

His stats are similar to Hoyer's, yet he's had the benefit of starting 4 times as many games for teams that had a lot less offensive firepower than Cleveland.

[WTL]

Maybe I should clarify.

 

There are two parts of the mental game.

 

1. The Billy Beene / Lenny Dykstra side.

You can overthink things. Sometimes a f it, I'll stick em is better than over analyzing.

IMO johnny is unmatched in this because he doesn't shit the bed in big moments. In a playoff game right now, I give the mental advantage to Manziel. And it's not even close. Everyone wanted Manziel to fail in BAMA II. Even auburn alums ( like Barkley). Johnny gained more yards than anyone has ever gained on Alabama. That's big state production. HUUUUUUGE part of the mental game. Hoyer is untested. Johnny isn't.

 

2, X's $ O's

Manziel scored a 32 on the wonderlic; he's not an idiot. The poor decision making people often criticize was actually the opposite. Johnny football came out on 3rd down, johnny Manziel was 1&2. He played risk/reward very well. Also, teams have tried EVERYTHING on him. He's going to catch up with Hoyer in no time. This slight edge to Hoyer isn't enough to make up for M1 and physical differences.

 

Otherwise HE WOULD HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOOTBALL.

 

You guys have zero clue who johnny is, it's almost hilarious. You're going to be pleasantly surprised and feel pretty dumb.

[choco]

How many snaps has johnny taken in the NFL?

 

Oh...none you say? He is the very definition of untested.

 

Hoyer is only slightly tested....

 

TCPO correctly reminds us that thigpen is moderately tested.

 

Its sad you think college production....a mere 2 years at that....is even close to the NFL production. Johnny never even had a damn playbook. Never called protections.

 

Yet you honks think its going to be such an easy transition. You greatly overexaggerate his ability much the same way you accuse others of underestimating him. Irony at its finest.

 

He was 4-4 in the SEC last year....and you honks still say he "dominated" college football. LSU an mizz shut his one dimensional ass down. You think NFL DCs aren't smart enough to figure him out?

 

No...you don't. Cause your blind to reality. Simpletons such as yourself cannot distinguish between college production and NFL production. The list of heisman winning busts is much longer than heisman successes. If college success predicted NFL success, everyone could be a GM.

 

You manzeilots are nauseating. Get a fucking clue.

[slimdawg]

Only smoke and spin cause you don't like the content.

 

Its the right answer....right now.

 

By all account, Lil john is a smart cat....he will eventually learn. Hoyer has a few years on him though, and that's what pettine is speaking to. No amount of johnny love changes the facts that he isn't adept at reading defenses yet, or that he never had a play book till now.

 

He is better served to learn the tools that will enable him to succeed. While you think he's a god and will pick up all that info in a couple months, reality dictates it will take a bit longer. If you truly want him to succeed, calm the fuck down. You're preconceived notions of draft slot dictating starter status are purely the result of your fandom....not reality.

 

Start him when he's ready.....but not before. I want a QB to finally pan out rather than playing him before he's ready. If you don't realize he has some things to learn, you're in for a long season.

 

Exactly this^^ think of JF as the new kick ass prototype car. You know that its gonna be sweet, but there are some bugs to work out and fine tuning to do still. Once you get all that ironed out, then you put it out on the road. Once JF works his kinks out and becomes NFL ready, then let him roll, but not before hes ready....

[choco]

Hoyers first pass was intercepted in 11-on-11's

Because it was tipped off Anthony Armstrong's hands...

 

 

Hmmm...very convenient omission....

 

I wonder why that is.....a "media" member spinning facts to suit his narrative....oh, how delicious lay surprising....

[choco]

 

Oh you self righteous "holier than thou" Ivory Tower schmuck.

 

We all have a difference of opinion but to act like your oh so higher than everyone...

 

who didn't smack the fuck out of you as a young man?

lol....

 

There's so many ways I could go with this.....

 

In the interest of the thread...let's go high road, cause its obvious you lack the mental fortitude to argue the football points. Rather, you insult at a grade school level.

 

I'm glad johnny is here....but I'm not going to ignore his deficiencies in the same vein on not gonna ignore anyone else's. There's been a heavy influx of you that would literally polish johnny knob because he's your hero.....whereas I'm (and many other "haters") are more pragmatic about his future. Yo don't even realize I want him to sit and learn to increase his chances of success.....while the honks want him to play because he's johnny flicking football.

 

If you were realistic about his game, rather than take the tact that he can do no wrong and is ready to destroy the league, you'd find I'm not as negative as you think.

 

I feel an obligation to temper the hype because this isn't college anymore. A knowledgeable johnny is better than an improvising johnny. You're so short sighted that you think he's got all the tools he needs to win.

 

But instead of arguing points, you're only recourse is to insiuate people are jealous because you're not smart enough to disseminate you opinion intelligently.

 

You're out ta you're league little man. Its you're bed time.

[slimdawg]

 

I'd love to know why.

 

Other than "He's Brian Hoyer, duhhhh."

 

I'm just going to go off of what I saw in the games last year. I could see an immediate difference in the way the offense operated when Hoyer was in there vs. the other qb's that played for us. Did he play perfect? No, but it was refreshing to see that's for damn sure. I bet Farmer and Pettine saw that too and are letting him compete to be the starter because of it. Personally I haven't seen Thigpen ever play, so I don't have an opinion on him. Ultimately JF is gonna be the guy and I think the guys that make the decisions are gonna make sure he's ready before they make him the starter and IMO that's the smartest way to go about it.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I'm just going to go off of what I saw in the games last year. I could see an immediate difference in the way the offense operated when Hoyer was in there vs. the other qb's that played for us. Did he play perfect? No, but it was refreshing to see that's for damn sure. I bet Farmer and Pettine saw that too and are letting him compete to be the starter because of it. Personally I haven't seen Thigpen ever play, so I don't have an opinion on him. Ultimately JF is gonna be the guy and I think the guys that make the decisions are gonna make sure he's ready before they make him the starter and IMO that's the smartest way to go about it.

Being better than Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell does not make someone a starting NFL QB. If that were the case, we'd all be starting NFL QB's.

[choco]

 

If you're going to say you're smarter than me, please use proper grammar and spelling you fucking idiot.

 

1. It's YOUR not "YOU'RE".

 

2. You = Your.

 

 

So I type all that out.....on a phone... and you're retort is spelling mistakes?

 

Lmao....

 

I'll take that as submission.

[WTL]

How many playoff snaps has Hoyer taken?

 

Maybe your aspirations are lower than mine.. I don't see the experience.

[WTL]

Choco, it's easy to win an argument by restating someone's words into something different. I asked for someone to make the Hoyer case.

 

Apparently That isn't possible.

 

Yes, college is different but it's not golf to boxing either.

 

4-4 last year. Ok. And he was a Heisman finalist and gained more yards in the sec than anyone else not named Manziel. Leave out the 109th ranked defense part though.

 

But Hoyer!!!! 1,000 less yards in 9 years than Manziel in 2.

 

That's twice as much college time ( not in the SEC) and 5 year Cushing in the NFL.

 

This is dumb. There is no case for hoyer. Make it if I'm wrong, try not to cliche me to death on unmeasurables.

[WTL]

WW, you just got trolled, bro. Your still cool though.

[miktoxic]

I think it mostly has to do with Hoyer being the closest thing we have to an entrenched starter but I could be wrong.

 

At this point I just want someone to win the job and prove they deserve it so I don't have to read another damn QB thread.

this is exactly correct. too bad that people that haven't watched the browns for the last fucking 20 years just stroll in and act like hoyer is just a bum that can be rolled over because he was a backup QB. well hasn't thigpen been a backup QB too and JF too?

 

the only reason MOST people around here like hoyer is because before he fucked up his knee there was an excitement in cleveland. not because he is a native clevelander, but because he won, 3 in a row. which has been unheard of in recent years. there was an actual glimmer of hope. maybe we're expecting to see that for 16 games if he is the starter.

 

for all you queefs that think cleveland is a laughingstock i say "SEE YA!" a true cleveland fan does not talk shit about the team or the city. go root for the fucking panthers, i heard they have a great blow boy QB there.

 

and to all you johnny fans. yeah he might be the starter this year, when i don't know and i don't fucking care. this is all you really have to do with yourselves is come to the browns board (which i'm sure you never sniffed before JF got drafted) and cry, bitch, whine and promote your gay love affair for this kid? it's fucking sickening. if you were true football fans rooting for the browns it wouldn't matter to you who starts as long as the browns won.

 

go root for the cowboys and chime in back here when JF has a 3 TD day. until then STFU.

[choco]

Lol....the one bringing out spelling smack (cause she has no football acumen) can't even get the cliché right....

 

You couldn't care less....you fucking moron.

 

To wtl....typical honk blames others. He put up 42 on alamba while his D gave up 49. I guess that's a poor defense as well....?....

 

If your argument is total yards, it doesn't deserve my time. As I've said, I'm not honking for anyone....unlike your myopic ass. The case is simply experience. Johnny has none...Nada, zilch. College stats are irrelevant. That's not an arguement. Its a crutch for those that can't accept that johnny isn't a complete player.

 

Mitigate the difference between college and pros all you want....what matters is wins. And johnny was OK in that department. He got a bowl game against football powerhouse duke.

 

OK then.....if johnny couldn't do it all himself....in college, due to a poor defense....by you own words.....which he can't be held accountable..... then just how are you arguing that he's gonna be the man in the NFL? He's Johnny fucking football right? He doesn't need anyone!

 

Oh....already setting yourself up for excuses when/if he struggles.....got it.

 

I can also massage stats to paint a picture....only one stat matters....wins. seems to me even college DCs figured him out in year 2.....cause heisman "finalist" had a tougher time winning in year 2. Oh yeah....he lost out to another freshman.....that actually won the big game.

 

So....tell ya what....I'll give you the case for hoyer, or even thigpen, after you convince me an undersize pipsqueak rookie what never played under center or had a playbook or read a defense or constantly lobs floaters off his back foot is going to tear it up against players that aren't bagging groceries next year. The sensationalist propaganda isn't gonna cut it.

[WTL]

Lol.

 

No one can make the Hoyer case. It's ALL ABOUT JOHNNY.

 

OOPS, sorry, I missed the:

He played mediocre in 3 games that were wins.

 

Someone get tebow on the phone. QUICK!

 

It's comical, I bet I can find the same posters for Hoyer saying johnny shouldn't be the guy because he is an injury waiting to happen. Which makes zero sense. But that's the game here apparently. Fat girls are sexy.

[miktoxic]

Lol.

 

No one can make the Hoyer case. It's ALL ABOUT JOHNNY.

 

OOPS, sorry, I missed the:

He played mediocre in 3 games that were wins.

 

Someone get tebow on the phone. QUICK!

 

It's comical, I bet I can find the same posters for Hoyer saying johnny shouldn't be the guy because he is an injury waiting to happen. Which makes zero sense. But that's the game here apparently. Fat girls are sexy.

 

 

fagboys like you make it easy for people to hate on your blowboy. when are you douches going to realize that you are just acting like irrational little girls?

[Tour2ma]

It's like Tour, Mike and I are the only ones who actually judge players based off how they can help the football team on the field.

While I appreciate the inclusion that trio, it did make me laugh...

Probably more to do with the picture that immediately sprang to mind of a head exploding somewhere in the mid-Pacific and getting brains all over a smart phone...

 

Anyway... Why Hoyer? Because he provided a spark in an otherwise lackluster 2013 QB season.

Yes, he struggled in the MN game and threw 3 INTs (all to LBs underneath IIRC), but rallied the O with 3 TDs and over 300 yds and won a shoot out.

But then against Cinci he managed us to victory in a D oriented game... 2 TD 0 INT.

I like the glimpse of command and game flexibility he showed. I want to see if it is real.

It has zero to do with where he is from.

 

What happened to this board, people calling each other out and being bitches? Yes in his drills the writer who was THERE, said he looked like he is ready in that sense. It's called hyperbole, look it up.

My remark was tongue-in-cheek... Everyone is so tense... What has happened to having fun around here?

 

My goodness the idiocy is thick in here.

 

It's ok to not think Manziel is the guy. But to argue Hoyer is without offering points to explain your position is?

 

What athletically can Hoyer do Manziel can't?

The mental bs is over rated.

1. Manziel will catch up in 1/2 a season at minimum

2. Hoyer actually has less experience than Manziel. Manziel has played with all eyes on him under extreme scrutiny and has shined. Moyer hasn't

 

Reading defenses is great. Making plays is better. Hoyer isn't a playmaker. Otherwise he would have been making plays the last 5 years. Manziel has 1,000 more yards in 2 seasons than Hoyer has in 9. Read that again.

 

Hoyer wasn't mobile before his knee injury. What can we expect now?

Manziel is the better athlete... unfortunately for JM this is not an athletic competition.

 

"The mental bs is overrated"? You cannot be talking about QB in the NFL. If you are, then you are now the proud owner of the single stupidest comment I have ever read on this site.

 

In 1/2 season? Perhaps JM will be the starter by then, but when you have just admitted that JM is behind Hoyer, why do I have to make a case?

 

Yards do not equal "experience". Experience = experience... and by that measure Hoyer not only has more college experience but also infinitely more pro experience. A good bit of the latter next to one of the best minds at QB today... Tom Brady.

 

As for his mobility... By all accounts I have read, Hoyer's surgery was a complete success and Brian has been rehabbing like a madman. While not the runner JM was in college, Hoyer was plenty mobile enough prior to the injury, showing damn good pocket presence and an ability to extend plays inside the pocket... all you really want from a pro QB. I expect that will be there again this August.