Oh look it's the Cleveland Browns forum.

[Frenchie]

NE Patriots, as a fellow Bostonian, I watch many Pats and Browns games. It's made being a Browns fan even harder - especially when we lost the game last year in the final 10 minutes. There is no question in my mind that the two most important positions in sports (teams) are NFL QB and NHL Goaltender. The difference between the haves and have-nots is mind blowing!

[TXDawg]

Thank you, Z. I almost threw my tablet when I read the comment that suggested JF had accomplished more than Manning at 21

Seriously?

You're kinda derp then.

 

It's not even close.

[hoorta]

Seriously?

You're kinda derp then.

 

It's not even close.

 

The Hype wasn't even 1\10 back then what it is now. Manning was considered as close to a "can't miss" as Andrew Luck years later. Same can't be said of JF. No one, and I mean no one- didn't have a first round grade on Peyton.

 

The only thing that's not close is Manziel wins the champagne chugging contest, hands down.

[choco]

That's how far outta touch manzealots are.

[USFBrown]

That's how far outta touch manzealots are.

They're all the same too. No regard for reason or logic. They will put words in your mouth and ignore the facts. Funny how they all share the same characteristics.

[WalterWhite]

And all you anti Manziel folks are just as fucking embarrassing.

 

I think it's jealousy that the guy lives like a king and you get resentful.

[Zombo]

Seriously?

You're kinda derp then.

It's not even close.

Why do you keep saying that?

 

Are you just hanging your hat on the fact that Manning finished second in the Heisman vote?

 

Because, other than that, he was a consensus All-American, Maxwell Award winner, Davey O'Brien Award Winner, Golden Arm Award Winner, SEC Player of the Year, won a SEC Championship, and threw for over 11,000 yards and 89 TDs by the time he was 21.

 

How can you say "not close?" Just the Heisman?

 

Oh wait, there's another award Manziel won that Manning didn't ... The Manning Award.

 

Manning did not win the Manning Award.

 

Z

[choco]

And all you anti Manziel folks are just as fucking embarrassing.

 

I think it's jealousy that the guy lives like a king and you get resentful.

Your mind is so small you can't fathom any other reason for people to question mini-me other than jealousy. Surely it couldn't be football related....noooooooo, couldn't be.

 

Seriously.....not sucking the midgets dick does not mean one doesn't like him or are against him. Wipe the cum off your lip....

[USFBrown]

And all you anti Manziel folks are just as fucking embarrassing.

 

I think it's jealousy that the guy lives like a king and you get resentful.

I don't think I've seen any blantent anti manziel posts. Just posts stating they hate his fans. The majority here are browns fans and root for the team not an individual player.

 

And trust me, I live like a king. I have a house, wife, son, and a good paying job. My life is great and I don't need to have a hard on for a kid to make a difference. You don't need to be a millionaire to live like a king. Its obviously you're still going through puberty and are learning about life.

[WalterWhite]

Your mind is so small you can't fathom any other reason for people to question mini-me other than jealousy. Surely it couldn't be football related....noooooooo, couldn't be.

 

Seriously.....not sucking the midgets dick does not mean one doesn't like him or are against him. Wipe the cum off your lip....

 

Awww baby boy.

 

Awwww grown man jealous Johnny has more money, fucks better women, and is ten times better at life and career than you.

 

Awww baby boy you'll be okay.

 

Didn't make much money, pull any ass, or have fun growing up so get jealous.

 

Awww baby boy too bad he's your future QB and there isn't anything you can about it.

 

Aww, I am literally doing the money sign right in your face and there's nothing you can do about it.

[USFBrown]

 

Awww baby boy.

 

Awwww grown man jealous Johnny has more money, fucks better women, and is ten times better at life and career than you.

 

Awww baby boy you'll be okay.

 

Didn't make much money, pull any ass, or have fun growing up so get jealous.

 

Awww baby boy too bad he's your future QB and there isn't anything you can about it.

 

Aww, I am literally doing the money sign right in your face and there's nothing you can do about it.

Are you 10? Talk about lame. You seem the one who's jealousy. You're just not worth anymore timeb

[WalterWhite]

No I just like to piss off choco. I will talk down to that old man.

 

He's so pissed off that Manziel is a Brown.

 

He's angry, jealous, bitter, and pissed off that a 21 year old has already surpassed him in nearly every single category in life.

[choco]

Then keep trying....cause you're not even close to getting to me. That's the difference between children and adults. High school smack is funny....not disparaging.

[Tour2ma]

And all you anti Manziel folks are just as fucking embarrassing.

I think it's jealousy that the guy lives like a king and you get resentful.

Jesus, Walter... you really gonna start down that path again? You know where it leads...

 

Oh wait, there's another award Manziel won that Manning didn't ... The Manning Award.

Perfect!

 

 

I still cannot believe how many folks confuse hype and "excitement" with accomplishment.

[hoorta]

And all you anti Manziel folks are just as fucking embarrassing.

 

I think it's jealousy that the guy lives like a king and you get resentful.

 

Wow, Johnny "lives like a king". Compared to Who? He's a damn street Urchin compared to the top 20 http://www.celebritynetworth.com/list/top-50-royals/ Has to slum with Mayweather, who's down on the list. http://www.celebritynetworth.com/list/top-50-richest-athletes/

 

 

 

 

Awww baby boy.

Awwww grown man jealous Johnny has more money, fucks better women, and is ten times better at life and career than you.

Awww baby boy you'll be okay.

Didn't make much money, pull any ass, or have fun growing up so get jealous.

Awww baby boy too bad he's your future QB and there isn't anything you can about it.

Aww, I am literally doing the money sign right in your face and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

Aw, give it up WW- we aren't fucking impressed in the least about JF's lifestyle- (apparently you sure as hell are- you constantly bring it up at every opportunity). It helped he got born into a (relatively) rich family. There's old wealth in Boston that shits more money than Johnny has- and they've never worked a day in their lives at a productive job.

 

You really have to dredge up your old shit? You need some new material.

[WalterWhite]

I'm not going after the top 20 richest celebrities, Mayweather, or old Money in Boston.

 

I'm going after a bunch of message simpleton hacks who are pissed off Manziel the future of the Browns so they belittle him any chance they get it.

 

Johnny is the future.

[gftChris]

WW, people aren't pissed off that JF has a chance to be the future of the franchise. There has been no QB even coming close to lifting the team out of obscurity, being the starter for even 5 years, let alone 15, so if JF is that guy, he'll be a god around Cleveland (and probably other parts of the country as well).

 

His lifestyle - people look at it and think it doesn't exactly represent someone whose life is dedicated to his craft. When you combine that with the fact that everyone, yourself included, knows he needs to make some major adjustments to succeed in the NFL, people start to question his work ethic, and how seriously he takes it. When you compare that to someone like Brian Hoyer - who is *extremely* easy to root for - who's coming in every day in the offseason to work on his rehab, spending his time working on his throws with receivers, people get even more concerned.

 

Of course, all his partying was during the offseason when there was no training around. Everyone said, if he still does this when training camp starts, when pre-season starts, then he's in trouble. He hasn't, he's been very quiet and impressed important people with his work ethic.

 

So people are hoping either he or Brian Hoyer succeeds. Largely, they won't care which one, but if pressed, people from Cleveland will want Hoyer to be successful, because he's from the area, and it would be an amazing rags to riches story. But if JF wins the superbowl, there'll be a million kids in Cleveland called Johnny, every other street will be Manziel Way and there'll be a statue of him in downtown.

 

Sorry, I'm rambling, it's early. But people aren't as anti-JF as you think. People might be pro-Hoyer. People are above all, though, pro-winning.

[WalterWhite]

WW, people aren't pissed off that JF has a chance to be the future of the franchise. There has been no QB even coming close to lifting the team out of obscurity, being the starter for even 5 years, let alone 15, so if JF is that guy, he'll be a god around Cleveland (and probably other parts of the country as well).

 

His lifestyle - people look at it and think it doesn't exactly represent someone whose life is dedicated to his craft. When you combine that with the fact that everyone, yourself included, knows he needs to make some major adjustments to succeed in the NFL, people start to question his work ethic, and how seriously he takes it. When you compare that to someone like Brian Hoyer - who is *extremely* easy to root for - who's coming in every day in the offseason to work on his rehab, spending his time working on his throws with receivers, people get even more concerned.

 

Of course, all his partying was during the offseason when there was no training around. Everyone said, if he still does this when training camp starts, when pre-season starts, then he's in trouble. He hasn't, he's been very quiet and impressed important people with his work ethic.

 

So people are hoping either he or Brian Hoyer succeeds. Largely, they won't care which one, but if pressed, people from Cleveland will want Hoyer to be successful, because he's from the area, and it would be an amazing rags to riches story. But if JF wins the superbowl, there'll be a million kids in Cleveland called Johnny, every other street will be Manziel Way and there'll be a statue of him in downtown.

 

Sorry, I'm rambling, it's early. But people aren't as anti-JF as you think. People might be pro-Hoyer. People are above all, though, pro-winning.

 

You're reasonable, it's fucking guys like Choco that just try to stir the pot and get a rise, and it's comical.

 

We finally have a superstar player that is getting us non stop attention and drawing heat to the city and all they want to do is tear him down.

 

I guess I'll just let it go and let grumpy old men being grumpy old men.

[gftChris]

And people are just winding you up because you bite so easily. This isn't going to disappear for months, if not years, especially if we pick one and the other is successful elsewhere.

[hoorta]

I'm not going after the top 20 richest celebrities, Mayweather, or old Money in Boston.

 

I'm going after a bunch of message simpleton hacks who are pissed off Manziel the future of the Browns so they belittle him any chance they get it.

 

Johnny is the future.

 

I think you'd be wrong about that. Belittle, or point out flaws? Based on his draft status, JF isn't Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck- at least not yet. Everyone said Manziel had the highest ceiling and the lowest floor of any qb in the 2014 draft. After seeing him in Training camp, I'm moving his floor up, but I have no idea how high his ceiling is, and no one- including you- can accurately predict at this time what exactly that is.

 

The other side of the coin is the horde of A&M JFF fans who've invaded, and belittle Hoyer every chance they get.

 

Yes, Manziel was drafted to be the future- so were Tim Couch and Brady Quinn- that didn't turn out so well. Let's see how the present works out.

 

 

You're reasonable, it's fucking guys like Choco that just try to stir the pot and get a rise, and it's comical.

 

We finally have a superstar player that is getting us non stop attention and drawing heat to the city and all they want to do is tear him down.

 

I guess I'll just let it go and let grumpy old men being grumpy old men.

 

Question WW, superstar where? College? Quite a reach if you want to put him superstar anything in the NFL yet- except media hype. Gip can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Browns ever drafted a Heisman winner @ qb before JF. the very mediocre Vinny Testaverde stopped by for a season or three. Us grumpy old men happen to know college greatness doesn't always translate to the pros. Just ask two-time Heisman winner Archie Griffin about that .

[WalterWhite]

I'm mean we just had the highest rated preseason game ever, and that wasn't because of Hoyer.

 

We are nationally relevant again thanks to Manziel and lets hope he's as good as we all hope he can be.

 

I'm just tired of the "aww shucks" Benny Hill theme QB's that have came through here.

 

Monday night is going to be awesome.

[hoorta]

I'm mean we just had the highest rated preseason game ever, and that wasn't because of Hoyer.

 

We are nationally relevant again thanks to Manziel and lets hope he's as good as we all hope he can be.

 

I'm just tired of the "aww shucks" Benny Hill theme QB's that have came through here.

 

Monday night is going to be awesome.

 

LOL, my boss was at the Lions game, and told me Manziel got the hell booed out of him the second he took the field- care to guess why? Hint- if you guess because of media hype, you'd be right. Manziel has created his own monster- if he busts, he'll be a bigger NFL laughingstock than Jamarcus Russell.

 

Not "nationally relevant" WW just the current heart throb of national media leeches looking for a story. Gawd, you have that short of attention span the way everyone and his Uncle was Blowing RG III when he came into the league, at the expense of Andrew Luck? Then they drop Griffin like a 200 pound lead balloon when he comes back from that ACL and gets benched? On to the "next great thing (story)" gee, that happens to be JFF.

[WalterWhite]

 

LOL, my boss was at the Lions game, and told me Manziel got the hell booed out of him the second he took the field

 

Who cares if he go boo'd? It's because Detroit is a 3rd world shit box and Johnny coming into that town is the best thing that's happened to it for a very long time.

 

I hope he's hated by everyone and a complete badass for us, it will make it way more interesting.

[Bangobango]

Manning had an SEC championship at 21. Johnny have one of those?

Then at 22 he was the first overall draft in the NFL. We already know Johnny isnt doing that either.

Manning then took every snap as a starter at 22, I'd love to see Johnny win the job outright and take every snap.

But Manning's resume was pretty "close" to Johnny's.

Zombo

It took Manning four years to win an SEC championship. It also took him four years to throw for 11k yards. Johnny had 8k in two years.

 

And if Johnny were three inches taller he'd been the first pick of the draft, no question. As it is, he's still the shortest qb taken in the first round in sixty years.

 

Oh yeah, and he's also the first freshman to ever win a heisman, which I heard is also a pretty big deal.

[gftChris]

It took Manning four years to win an SEC championship. It also took him four years to throw for 11k yards. Johnny had 8k in two years.

 

And if Johnny were three inches taller he'd been the first pick of the draft, no question. As it is, he's still the shortest qb taken in the first round in sixty years.

 

Oh yeah, and he's also the first freshman to ever win a heisman, which I heard is also a pretty big deal.

Right, because college success if a direct indicator of NFL success. There have been no players win the Heisman and then not go on to the Hall of Fame. Got it.

[The Gipper]

Gip can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Browns ever drafted a Heisman winner @ qb before JF. the very mediocre Vinny Testaverde stopped by for a season or three. Us grumpy old men happen to know college greatness doesn't always translate to the pros. Just ask two-time Heisman winner Archie Griffin about that .

 

The Browns have only ever drafted 2 Heisman winners: Charles White and now Johnny Football.

The did make the trade for Ernie Davis.

 

And the only other forays into employing former Heisman winners that I am aware of was in getting Vinny T. an Ty Detmer to play for the Browns.

Of those previous 4, only Vinny performend halfway decently for "us". He did make a Pro Bowl.

Of course, Ernie Davis died. Charles White tried to snort the end line, and Detmer was replaced after one start.

 

So we don't have a good track record on that account. JFF will have to change that pattern.

[The Gipper]

It took Manning four years to win an SEC championship. It also took him four years to throw for 11k yards. Johnny had 8k in two years.

 

And if Johnny were three inches taller he'd been the first pick of the draft, no question. As it is, he's still the shortest qb taken in the first round in sixty years.

 

Oh yeah, and he's also the first freshman to ever win a heisman, which I heard is also a pretty big deal.

None of that is a big deal or relevent when it comes to his pro career. I do hope he can be all that and a bag of chips. It remains to be seen.

[letsgojackets]

I'd say college stats are indicative of your potential at the next level just not as much as Bango thinks. Realistically if you don't put up stats in College your not sniffing the pros.

[The Gipper]

Right, because college success if a direct indicator of NFL success. There have been no players win the Heisman and then not go on to the Hall of Fame. Got it.

There have been 80 Heisman Winners in history since 1935. Only 8 of them have been elected into the PFHOF:

Doak Walker

Paul Hornung

Roger Staubach

OJ Simpson

Tony Dorsett

Earl Campbell

Marcus Allen

Barry Sanders

 

Note: the ONLY Heisman winning QB to make the PFHOF is Roger Staubach. And of those Heisman winning QBs not now in, ONLY maybe Jim Plunkett and Vinny Testaverde have potential arguments for inclusion. Plunkett for his two title wins, and Vinny for just his accumulation of statistics due to his longevity. Most don't think that either of those guys should be included amongst the greatest of all time.....because neither of them ever were close to being considered the best when they played.

And certainly no other retired Heisman winning QBs are going to make the list. I mean, look at these names:

Terry Baker, John Huarte, Steve Spurrier (probably College HOF as a coach), Doug Flutie (CFL HOF, sure), Andre Ware, Ty Detmer, Gino Torreta, Charlie Ward, Danny Wuerffel, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Jason White, Matt Leinert, Troy Smith, Tim Tebow.

Carson Palmer started out like he could be a good candidate, but now that he is close to the end of his career....absolutely not.

Sam Bradford would have to have a major turnaround in his career going forward to warrant consideration.

 

As I see it, the second Heisman trophy winning QB to make the PFHOF after Staubach will probably have to come from the recent bunch: Cam Newton, RGIII, JFF, Jameis Winston. And there is a lot of potential there.

 

In fact the one comparison I heard regarding the QB styling that JFF could emulate is he to Roger Staubach. I would love for him to have that kind of potential.

[Tour2ma]

I'd say college stats are indicative of your potential at the next level just not as much as Bango thinks. Realistically if you don't put up stats in College your not sniffing the pros.

But when it is all you have...

 

There have been 80 Heisman Winners in history since 1935. Only 8 of them have been elected into the PFHOF:

Note: the ONLY Heisman winning QB to make the PFHOF is Roger Staubach.

Since the Heisman has become more of a QB award, 13 of the last 14 were QBs, an unprecedented period, the Heisman QB HOFer count is bound to change rapidly.