Tour2ma Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Said it before and I'll say it again. I've seen enough from Hoyer to feel comfortable with him leading the offense in 2015, now let's see if Manziel's got anything. This team isn't playoff bound give Manziel a tryout and move forward. You're comfortable with Hoyer playing... great. How much are you comfortable paying him? If and when we are eliminated, I'll agree. But you owe it to the team, the 2014 team, to start your best while you are still in the hunt. Season isn't over until week 16. For two straight weeks against 2 teams with a total of one win the team has looked less than stellar. I still think 7-9 or 8-8 is a real possibility but I don't see a division championship or wildcard spot so this season should be used as a trial to see what players have going forward. I actually agree with your season analysis. I do not see playoffs this year, but us not seeing it is no reason to shut down a starter. See above... Plus you have to remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Discredited again Stockton- I guess everything you read on the Internet must be true. Exactly. MMMMMMUUUUUUSSSSSTTTTT play Manziel Help me Obi-Wan, he's our only hope- to turn this winning season into another quarterback experiment. OK, he may not be Hoyer the Destroyer- but he has the Browns at 4-3. As Aaron Rodgers said R-E-L-A-X people. Enjoy the ride, and expect some turbulence on the way. Hoorta, completely agree, my fear is Hoyer continues to play solid and the team goes 8-8 with just the normal inconsistencies but Manziel still sits there being "Their Guy". If Hoyer stumbles or the team struggles Manziel will get the nod and the experiment will begin. With Hoyer I think we know what we have and at this point I think we are all ok with it. I don't see Manziel sitting for two straight seasons but if that's the plan the team will have to pony up some cash for Hoyer, and he'll want guaranteed money. So either you play the guy you're paying or the guy who you drafted in the 1st round, always a dicey situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I find it odd that moderators around here support a guy who threatens people and resort to name calling but .....Whatever. Season isn't over until week 16. For two straight weeks against 2 teams with a total of one win the team has looked less than stellar. I still think 7-9 or 8-8 is a real possibility but I don't see a division championship or wildcard spot so this season should be used as a trial to see what players have going forward. 1) Don't take Mik seriously. 2) Hello? 4-3? What part of that don't you understand? Right now the Browns are one game out of a potential Wild Card spot, and you're already thinking about "Next Year"? GTFOOH. Get the f**ck out of here. I've been waiting for "Next Year" since 1964, and I hate to tell you, my patience is wearing mighty damn thin. Per his marching orders from Commandant Jimmy Haslam, Pettine is expected to win NOW- with this roster- not do yet another "well, golly gee, we're not going to the Super Bowl (and IMHO, that's probable) this year, so let's start evaluating backups to see what we've got. Hey- the coaching staff sees those backups every day in practice, so they know damn well what they've got. Seriously- the one hit wonders around here were throwing Haden and Gilbert under the bus after a couple of bad games, so how does that crow taste right about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 There was no name calling in my post fuckhead. I said you have a feeble brain, that's an observation, not calling you names assclown. Get it straight. There was in this one, "I booted you for being a negative whiney asswipe. Consider yourself lucky that I only booted you out and didn't ban you for the rest of the game. If you don't like it....I don't give a damn. Try complaining to the management here, see how that works out for you." Never said you called me a name but....Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 There was in this one, "I booted you for being a negative whiney asswipe. Consider yourself lucky that I only booted you out and didn't ban you for the rest of the game. If you don't like it....I don't give a damn. Try complaining to the management here, see how that works out for you." Never said you called me a name but....Whatever Oh for fucks sake...what are you the fucking nice police? Piss off and show up in the tavern next Sunday and I'll ban your ass out of there before you have a chance to get comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hoyer on the season 55.8 Comp % and 88.0 Rating For comparison - QBs with at least 90 attempts Mike Glennon 57.2% 86.2 Rating EJ Manuel 58% 80.3 Rating Charlie Whitehurst 61.3% 93.1 Rating Kirk Cousins 61.8% 86.4 Rating Ryan Fitzpatrick 65% 86.1 Rating Austin Davis 66% 94.3 Rating Kyle Orton 68.5% 92.5 Rating Half of those guys are career backups, and the other few their fan bases are ready to get rid of them and burn any trace they ever existed. Lets keep in mind that what Hoyer has done this year has been considered "above" what people expected, and still hes in the middle of this group, only less accurate. Thats him AT HIS BEST. It's not an accident that everyone has a higher comp % than he does by at least 1.5% because Hoyer is dead last in the NFL in completion %. Dead last. Over a full 1% worse then Mike Glennon who was sent by his own team to get an eye exam because they thought he might be blind in one eye. And we're debating on if we should sign him for 13 mil a year or Franchise him for 18 mil? Oh and what do you think 3 or 4 years? Low self esteem out of the fan base, we have a QB we need to be figuring out a way to get rid of, because he's not the answer...and we want to lock him up. My lord. And though they've thrown a ton of INTs just know that Teddy Twatwater is throwing 61.1% and Blake Bortles 65.5% Solid argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 1) Don't take Mik seriously. 2) Hello? 4-3? What part of that don't you understand? Right now the Browns are one game out of a potential Wild Card spot, and you're already thinking about "Next Year"? GTFOOH. Get the f**ck out of here. I've been waiting for "Next Year" since 1964, and I hate to tell you, my patience is wearing mighty damn thin. Per his marching orders from Commandant Jimmy Haslam, Pettine is expected to win NOW- with this roster- not do yet another "well, golly gee, we're not going to the Super Bowl (and IMHO, that's probable) this year, so let's start evaluating backups to see what we've got. Hey- the coaching staff sees those backups every day in practice, so they know damn well what they've got. Seriously- the one hit wonders around here were throwing Haden and Gilbert under the bus after a couple of bad games, so how does that crow taste right about now? Haden played well and Gilbert's role is getting better, I'll eat crow on that. Based on what I've watched from 4-3 I think you're looking at losses at Cincy, Baltimore and Carolina along with at home against Indy. If they go 2-3 home against Houston and on the road against Atlanta and Buffalo that's 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterWhite Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 show up in the tavern next Sunday and I'll ban your ass out of there before you have a chance to get comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hoorta, completely agree, my fear is Hoyer continues to play solid and the team goes 8-8 with just the normal inconsistencies but Manziel still sits there being "Their Guy". If Hoyer stumbles or the team struggles Manziel will get the nod and the experiment will begin. With Hoyer I think we know what we have and at this point I think we are all ok with it. I don't see Manziel sitting for two straight seasons but if that's the plan the team will have to pony up some cash for Hoyer, and he'll want guaranteed money. So either you play the guy you're paying or the guy who you drafted in the 1st round, always a dicey situation. Bacon, I'm not trying to be mean- but we don't have to "pay" Manziel until the 2018 season. Yes, Hoyer has finally shown what he is- and he's far from an "elite" qb. I think the guy is smart enough, (and hopefully humble enough) to realize that. Despite all the Media BS- I believe he would accept the job as being JFF's backup long term- if the price was right. BUT- should the Browns make the playoffs- all bets are off. That will jack up Hoyer's (agent's) asking price through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Solid argument Gee, I thought you meant Gino Smith. 5\8, too bad three of those completions were to the other team. All Browns fans should watch those Jets lowlights- they make Hoyer look like Peyton Manning by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Bacon, I'm not trying to be mean- but we don't have to "pay" Manziel until the 2018 season. Yes, Hoyer has finally shown what he is- and he's far from an "elite" qb. I think the guy is smart enough, (and hopefully humble enough) to realize that. Despite all the Media BS- I believe he would accept the job as being JFF's backup long term- if the price was right. BUT- should the Browns make the playoffs- all bets are off. That will jack up Hoyer's (agent's) asking price through the roof. Hoyer will probably get at least Carson Palmer money about $8 per with 50-60% guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Football Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hoyer clearly is the future model QB of the NFL. Other teams passed on him because they don't know what the Browns know. We winnin' the Super Bowl this year boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Obviously even the Browns don't know what they know... Sit, Johnny, sit... good boy... EDIT: What ever happened to clipboard duty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted October 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 My crystal ball says Hoyer's good season (say 8-8 or better) translates into him leaving as a FA and the team being OK with that. If 7 wins or less, we may sign him for reasonable dollars and then let the competition begin (which would be stacked in JM's favor). Either way (and despite being a Hoyer fan), I'm accepting that the JM era will begin next year (or sooner if the post-season is out of reach). No way that I would pay $8 M/ yr for multiple years with guarantees for Hoyer. I can't rank him in the top 16 QB's in the league, no matter where the statistics put him. Don't get me wrong, he's talented and smart. But notions that he could be the next Brady are exaggerated. If I'm Hoyer, I take a LT deal with the Browns and see what happens. JM needs to make the transition to the NFL game and so there is a good chance that he will not succeed and then Hoyer will be the starter again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblin Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 All the other teams passed on Manziel too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 All the other teams passed on Manziel too! yet as of now none of the teams who actually signed him.... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Solid argument Except when you factor in Ws and Ls. Hoyers winning pct. as a starting QB is .700. That trumps any other stat does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Except when you factor in Ws and Ls. Hoyers winning pct. as a starting QB is .700. That trumps any other stat does it not? YES! Hoyer has a MUCH better win/loss record than every single guy on that list. Brainless just had to find "a stat" that worked for him, so that list was it. Interesting how ANYONE could think completion percentage is more important than wins. Hahaha. The stupidity of that argument is so deep, I might just drown in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 But we know Hoyer can win. We don't know if JM can. Will he even be winnier? How can you not see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Except when you factor in Ws and Ls. Hoyers winning pct. as a starting QB is .700. That trumps any other stat does it not? Trent Dilfer Hall of Fame bound. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Trent Dilfer Hall of Fame bound. WSS If he played the way he did for one half of a year, he would have been. As would Derek Anderson if he played his entire career the way he played through about 3/4ths of the 2007 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonShorts Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 And 1 of those douchebags is wearing a coral colored shirt with a lame ass backpack. You think its Coral? It looks more red in person, maybe it loses some quality in the photograph. I guess my color palette isn't as refined as yours.Of the QBs who have started at least 6 games this year only 4 have not thrown for 300 yards in a game. Of those QBs in their career they have a total of 1 playoff win. Guess who is part of that group? Guess who has also played the easiest cumulative pass defense in the NFL this season? Brian Hoyer.The moped of the NFL.As Dan Patrick says "In todays NFL if you don't throw for 300 yards, you're terrible" And how sir. And how.The idea that you could watch that entire Oakland game, and determine that Brian is doing just fine, is asinine. So-So is being generous yesterday. The Browns spent 7 quarters against the Jaguars and the Raiders without scoring a TD. Awful. The two they got against Oakland were off short fields after a turnover. How many dropped INTs yesterday? 3? 4? One of them for a walk in pick 6? Theres a reason why the Raiders are staring at 0-16 and the fact they don't make those plays is why. They make those plays and its meltdown city today. Just those plays, and its meltdown city, Brian playing exactly the same, but Raiders catching a couple of those picks, and we're having a completely different conversation. But they dropped them, so you all get to pretend you didn't see that and it never happened. No 300 yard games against the easiest cumulative pass defense in the NFL. Let me guess what your argument is, its the system right? We're a run team so of course no 300 yard games. Yet Matt Schaub, horrible QB, led the NFL in passing yards under Shanny AND had a big run game. A washed up McNabb in Washington, a ton of 300 yard games, Rex Grossman 300 yard games, RGIIIs team led the league in rushes and he had plenty of 300 yard games, Kirk Cousins, also a horrible QB, had a 400 yard game...in this exact system. Are you sure Brian Hoyer has the whole playbook? Because I doubt he does, does it look like we're using an entire playbook to you? Feels a bit like we're having to trim it just to cater to the few things Hoyer can do, like his lack of physical abilities are hamstringing the totality offense. I know defenses have noticed it because now they just stack the box and leave all corners 1 on 1 because they have no fear of Hoyers arm burning them. Oh and I know what you'll say "Well we're 4-3 all he does is win" well and lose 3 games too, and to the Jaguars, and of course the NFL record comeback against the Titans, then again he was the QB that was down so much that he needed a NFL comeback to beat the Titans. NFL record comeback to beat the Titans, loss to the Jaguars, and late game turnovers to hold off the Raiders. Just like Kurt Warner, you were all correct. Everything is going well. It is nice to be 4-3, of course if we were less then that, with this schedule (NFLs easiest schedule to date) we wouldn't even be having this conversation. This is about as bad as you could do and not be forced into changes. Its the line right? Well if your QB has to have an unbelievable line and a running game carrying him to be any good, then how good is he really? I've watched Andrew Luck with 10times worse OLine then we had this Saturday and Trent 2.0 in the backfield lead the Colts to the playoffs 2 years in a row. We've all watched Big Ben have zero Oline and rise up and have huge games. Tom Brady has never had a great line and outside of Moss, never had great receivers. Franchise QBs aren't carried by whats around them, they lift whats around them. Hoyer aint one of them.Whats amazing is most around here actually admit not "Hoyer is a game manager" and "I don't think he's a franchise QB" which is fine, but when you're building a franchise and the guy playing QB isn't your franchise QB, then you're simply wasting time at that point. This is all wasting time. Its Derek Anderson/Quinn all over and if we would've dumped Anderson quicker we would've found out Quinn sucked, quicker and still wouldn't have made the playoffs and in the 2008 draft would've been right in line for Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco or even Matthew Stafford the year after...instead we wasted time and pretended like everything was fine even though it was clear our record was one more of fortune instead of good play and dragged out the process. Next thing you know we're stuck with Colt McCoy. All because we foolishly chased a playoff birth with a QB we all knew wasn't a Franchise QB and delayed the process. Fucked up the future right there.Its amazing how NFL history repeats itself. Brian Hoyer is a Miller High Life in a Champaign League. PS- Feel free to kick me out of the Tavern and delete my posts all because you don't like their message. It's very American of you right Komrade Mike O? If you don't like the message just ignore it, don't pay attention to any facts it may present, just because it goes against your own hopes and beliefs it has to be banned. History will be kind to these posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 If he played the way he did for one half of a year, he would have been. As would Derek Anderson if he played his entire career the way he played through about 3/4ths of the 2007 season. And if the Ravens remained powerful enough to win no matter who the quarterback was they'd probably never have replaced him. The only time I will ever call for a quarterback change is when it is that position specifically costing us games. And that has yet to be the case. Do I think Johnny has more upside? Possibly, probably? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownSouthKC Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Oaklabd won't win a game all year but I don't think they are that bad it's just the rest of their schedule is incredibly tough. Something like Seattle Denver KC SD SF Denver ... Yeesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 PS- Feel free to kick me out of the Tavern and delete my posts all because you don't like their message....It's not about "liking" the message. It's about you repeating over and over again. Like a broken fucking record. No one cares to hear your opinion 7 thousand times. It was lame the first time and now it's just old. If you don't like the message just ignore it, don't pay attention to any facts it may present...It is void of any facts and is pure speculation on your part. We all have an opinion, but dont feel the need to jam it down everyone elses throat 40 thousand times. And we also dont need everyone else to agree just to feel validated. Maybe, someday, you will get to say "I told you so". Because we ALL know how important that is to you. Just imagine, someday you might actually feel what its like to be right. THAT will be a special day indeed. But, just be prepared, because no one will care except you. History will be kind to these posts.....And history will also show that not one person cares but you......not one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 PS- Feel free to kick me out of the Tavern and delete my posts all because you don't like their message. It's very American of you right Komrade Mike O? If you don't like the message just ignore it, don't pay attention to any facts it may present, just because it goes against your own hopes and beliefs it has to be banned. History will be kind to these posts. Get my name right dickbrain....It is very American actually...every establishment in this fine country has a sign that says we refuse the right to serve anyone, well in the case of the tavern on Sundays, I reserve the right to kick your sorry ass out if you're boring and repetitive and serve no purpose for being there other than to be a whiney punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I deleted it because you posted the same exact thing 3 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 I deleted it because you posted the same exact thing 3 times. Only 3??? No way. Gotta be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonShorts Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Only 3??? No way. Gotta be more. Certainly will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Certainly will be. You'll be earning yourself a little time out from here before long. Posting the same article over and over again is annoying and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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